OT WED 29 MAY 24 ~ End of the Middle Ages Day


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A period of time in Western European history covering the feudal episodes of the
5th to 12th centuries. How this date was chosen as the 'end' of the medieval period
seems pretty random. Anyway, welcome to the modern era.

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On this date ~

1790 - Rhode Island becomes last of original 13 colonies ratifying US Constitution (we are slow)
1912 - 15 young women are fired by Curtis Publishing in Philadelphia for dancing the "Turkey Trot" during their lunch break (OH noes)
1982 - Pentagon plans 1st strategy to fight a nuclear war (still working on it)
1989 - Student pro-democracy protesters in Tiananmen Square, China construct a replica of the Statue of Liberty, naming it the Goddess of Democracy (thanks France)

2-june-1989-tiananmen-square.jpg
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velvet-4-960x720.jpg

Nest light sculpture in Tallinn, Estonia. Designed by a 5 year old.
https://www.thisiscolossal.com/2024/05/velvet-nest-estonia/

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Open thread so hatch your thoughts below.

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QMS's picture

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A bright sunshiny day here. Rescued a turtle from the road, it wasn't happy when I
dropped it into the bird bath. Oh well. Probably saved its life?

Lamenting the lack serious political discourse in this so called civilization. Seems we've
regressed back to the dark ages in that realm. C99 notwithstanding, it is challenging
to find issues discussed in terms other than emotional sound bites.

When policy positions are presented in the perspective of 'the leaders of the free world'
dictated by Wall Street, Pentagon and the blob - resolution of conflicts is a one-way
dead-end street. How do we overcome this trap? Fear and propaganda are powerful
obstacles to rational consideration of options. I opt for free thinking. What are your
brainstorms on this?

Thanks!

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10 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

Lookout's picture

Serfs must serve the lords/oligarchs. Control the people with debt.

Caught this clip last night...using NGO to promote mass migration and continue a giant grift. A trillion spent to bring in 30 million since Biden took office?

"What this DHS guy said TERRIFIED me to the core" (18 min)

The US government working hand in hand with Non Government Organizations... or NGO's to bring millions of illegals into the united states. If you don't think this is all planned you need to get your head examined.

I liked his line: The US government is the enemy of the people.

Thanks for the OT and enjoy your nice day. I'm off to mow.

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9 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

QMS's picture

@Lookout
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I do not recall there being a balanced discussion regarding bringing
30 mil immigrants into the country. We can't feed or house legal
citizens to any effective degree. Another 'policy' jammed down our
throats with questionable benefits.

Thanks for checking in.

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6 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

@QMS but they wont.
the dark ages are truly upon us.

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soryang's picture

According to Daniel Ellsberg's Doomsday Machine, the first plans for general nuclear war operations by the US were adopted by sometime in the fifties. The plan was initially called Annex C to the JSCAP for Joint Strategic Capabilities Plan.

Since there was to be only one plan for fighting Russians anywhere in the world under any circumstances- including, along with SAC, Polaris submarines, and theater forces, Eisenhower endorsed in 1959 the coordination of a single strategic plan at SAC headquarters in Omaha. Annex C of of the JSCP came to be, by December 1960, the Single Integrated Operational Plan (SIOP).

I was in Asia at the time of Tiananmen and had the impression however subjective that it was to some extent being manipulated by the US embassy. At the time, I also felt that it took quite a while to unfold, because of the apparent reluctance of the Chinese leadership to "crack down" on the demonstrators. My belief is that this reluctance came from the relatively elevated status students have in the traditional Chinese perspective. "Cracking down" on demonstrating students could possibly result in more unfavorable responses from society at large. In hindsight, there are similarities to the Hong Kong uprisings. In the later HK uprising, it's clear there were violent provocateurs in and among the sometimes violent demonstrators. Also in the Hong Kong movement, the ties of the leadership to US NGOs are readily apparent. The response of the government to the demonstrations and violence seemed much more carefully tailored than that of Tiananmen. In the Tiananmen uprising it has been reported that violent demonstrators killed six soldiers. One was hanged and burned with gasoline. To detail these events would be a challenging project for history writers.

Not so sure that a "democratic movement" in China would have produced better results than what we see in China today, although that is speculation on my part.

(edit 2X for typos)

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語必忠信 行必正直

QMS's picture

@soryang
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It seems better as an ideal than in practice.
The nuclear war plan was just something
copied and pasted from a site. It may refer to
a different iteration of a previous resolution?

Thanks for adding to the mix.

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4 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

studentofearth's picture

@soryang best indication it was instigated by forces outside China.

Might be interested in reviewing these links to refresh your memories and incorporate a broader perspective of events.

The Tiananmen Papers PBS Frontline April 11, 2006

The Tiananmen Papers Compiled by ZHANG LIANG. Edited by ANDREW J. NATHAN and PERRY LINK The New York Times (archived) January 21, 2001

Tiananmen Square: The Failure of an American-instigated 1989 Color Revolution Beijing: June 04, 1989 by Larry Romanoff 2020

They have helped clarify some oddities of my experiences.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

soryang's picture

@studentofearth

Particularly for the Romanoff account of events that I had read years ago, and which view I favor. I think the US mo is so well known at this point due to more recent events I was too lazy to spend the time to find his article again. I didn't find it when I did a cursory google search, which is not at all surprising. I have other projects I work on and didn't want to divert my energy digging for it again.

I'm leery of the Tiananmen Papers. On the surface based on the summary PBS description there are a couple of things than me make distrustful of the documents. I'll leave that to others. The title which implies it consists of primary documents, when others say it doesn't, and the pseudonym of the alleged source which is psychologically loaded.

I will copy the links and save them for future reference. Thanks again studentofearth! I thought I would never see the Romanoff article again.

edited for typo/grammar

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語必忠信 行必正直

studentofearth's picture

@soryang The Tiananmen Papers are not for a casual read, especially if have other interesting projects on the horizon. Events across the whole nation, not just Beijing, are included in the timeline descriptions of April 8 through June 30th. The deliberative actions taken by the Studentleaders to advance their objectives by using the planned visit of Mikhail Gorbachev to improve Sino-Russian relations had not been addressed in my other readings. The inner relationships of various decision making groups of the Chinese government, communist party and retired officials is quite convoluted.

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3 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

QMS's picture

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give the fishes a chance

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truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

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soryang's picture

@humphrey

As Ted Postol says in an interview with Daniel Davis at the link below, they don't know what they're doing. And yes, they are risking nuclear war, according to Postol. He regards their actions as "reckless."

A Very 'Limited' Nuclear Attack? MIT Professor Ted Postol explains

He says this about the 48:45 mark.

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語必忠信 行必正直

@soryang The Ukies will be slaughtered. In the Modern Age, the US and its' lap dog, NATO, expect nothing less.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

to isolate itself.

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QMS's picture

@humphrey
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the colonial regimes of the west (FUKUS) are in the global minority.
By a large margin. How not to win friends and intimidate otherwise
peaceful countries. This is a bad look all of the way around.
War is not the answer.

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truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

earthling1's picture

that said: "WW4 will be fought with sticks and stone"?
Prescient words none the less.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

dystopian's picture

Hi all, Hey Capt.'

Hope it's all good out there! Thanks for the OT!

Thinking one can have a limited nuclear war strategy reflects the ignorance in charge. 1) you have a nuclear war; 2) the end. The only strategy of intellect is avoidance at all cost. Is that what it seems like America is doing?

I like the nest light sculpture. Just glad I am not trying sleep in that room next to it. And hope they didn't tap into my electricity for it. Wink

Some turtles are dry land turtles, like Box Turtles, and do not care much for water. Not all are aquatic, many are strictly terrestrial. The Eastern Ornate Box Turtle is one of the most beautiful turtles there is. Have kept 'em. Nearly a half-century ago, actually had a turtle pen in back yard in Redondo Bch. with a foot deep pond in it. I would rather grab that Alligator Snapper than those damn bitey Softshells...

As far as this 'so called civilization' is concerned, America has the best democracy the billionaires who own it will give to you. But don't worry, they are working overtime to take what they haven't yet.

Find ways to laugh and be happy in spite of the bastards.

Happy trails all!

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

QMS's picture

@dystopian
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strolling down the middle of the road
by the time I got out there, it had taken
cover in a mud puddle by the curb
the mail was soon to come, the driver
always plows thru that rut between boxes
not a good hiding place

about as big as my hand, greenish brown
with a yellow edge on the shell
moved it to the bird bath out back
it was not happy - hissing and
showing off its long yellow claws

went back about an hour later
to check on it - nowhere to be seen

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truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security

dystopian's picture

@QMS Hey Capt.'!

Is that you in the galleon? Smile

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5 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

QMS's picture

@dystopian
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seems normal for key west
pirates galore

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4 users have voted.

truth is considered foreign influence, world peace is a threat to national security