Open Thread WE 27 SEP 23 ~ Ancestor Appreciation Day


I was born by myself but carry the spirit and blood of my father, mother and my ancestors. So I am really never alone. My identity is through that line.
Ziggy Marley

“It is in the roots, not the branches, that a tree’s greatest strength lies.”
― Matshona Dhliwayo


Welcome to today's OT. Brought to by the makers of C99. A few little bits are offered herein
to kindle your thoughts. Jump in, the water is fine.


Historic happenings on this day -

1821 - Mexican revolutionary forces led by Agustín de Iturbide occupy Mexico City as Spanish withdraw, bringing an end to the Mexican War of Independence
1822 - French scholar Jean-François Champollion announces he has deciphered Egyptian hieroglyphics using the Rosetta Stone
1864 - Pro-Confederate guerrillas led by William T. Anderson with Jesse James loot Centralia and attack a train on the North Missouri Railroad, executing 24 Union soldiers. Later the same day the guerillas defeat the newly formed 39th Missouri Infantry Regiment, killing 123 of its 147 solders.
1905 - The physics journal Annalen der Physik publishes Albert Einstein's paper "Does the Inertia of a Body Depend Upon Its Energy Content?", introducing the equation E=mc².
1908 - Henry Ford's first Ford Model T automobile leaves the Piquette Plant in Detroit, Michigan


1912 - W. C. Handy publishes "Memphis Blues", considered the 1st blues song

1962 - Rachel Carson publishes 'Silent Spring' about the deleterious impacts of pesticide use in the US on the environment
2017 - Researchers confirm existence of giant tree rat "Vika" in the Solomon Islands that can crack open coconuts


Ancestry appreciation is different from worship. We do owe our existence to our forebears.
They from theirs. What we do with the present potential is up to us.

“From our ancestors come our names, but from our virtues come our honors.” (Latin)


On a different note ..

The wars we are fighting now are somewhat different from our ancestors.
Except the powers had to convince the collective mind that
conflict is the solution to trouble. This is still the case. Aside from the
destructive actions of the military, the newer battleground is for control of
information. Contrary opinions are not tolerated.


Credits ~

Beau Dick, “Volcano Woman” mask - red cedar, acrylic, and horsehair
‘An Indigenous Present’ Is a Paradigm-Shifting Illumination of Native North American Art Today

11 users have voted.



Not sure how the pervious post occurred? Anyway, now reading Crichton's Congo
published in 1980. Pertaining to the theme of today's OT, the story considers genetic memory
as something passed down by our ancestors. The premise is the nightmares and fears of our
forebears are imprinted into their offspring. Somewhere beneath conscious thought. Could
explain some very strange dreams? Any thoughts?

6 users have voted.
soryang's picture

@QMS I'm somewhat reluctant to wade into that kind of discussion. I think the idea that there is a collective memory is something that Carl Jung gave a lot of thought to. I don't consider myself any sort of authority on that subject. I think the human proclivity to myth, social conformity, emotions that drive behavior, the subconscious expressing expressing itself in symbols and dreams have to be more or less inherited traits. Why do people feel a need to belong, to conform, to love their family members (more or less), seek out direction, bond to their dog or cat?

These traits are manipulated in the modern era on a mass scale by media in an attempt to create the mass mind so valued by propagandists and advertisers. I don't think there is a collective memory beyond that recorded in the memory of individuals, unreliable as a witness of events can be, that die with those individuals unless they are transmitted culturally to the next generation and subsequent generations.

There was a theory of history labeled "psycho-history" that I vaguely recall reading about once. The central principle was pretty simple, assuming an average life span (in that historian's view) of about seventy years, historical events would by and large be forgotten by groups and then the perspective of those currently alive could be returned or be manipulated to a view that would have been unacceptable in the prior 70 years.

Isn't this what is being done with the Nazi issue in Ukraine? In my opinion there are historical trends older than 70 years, that have adversely affected the world, (in the far east in particular), that are being renewed currently. I had read that the manipulation of Ukrainian "nationalism" such as it was, was invented by the German military high command during WWI. It was exploited by the nazis as well in WWII against Russia. Then after the German defeat in WWII, was adopted by the CIA who used Rheinhard Gehlen's, historical knowledge and intelligence connections during the cold war to try to undermine Soviet control of eastern Europe. In the far east the US and others primarily the five eyes and Japan, are resurrecting the old 19th and 20th Century policies. They are in the manner of the imperialist tradition. These polices from an earlier era, resulted in the excesses of colonialism, totalitarianism, and world wars. Are we just going to repeat these mistakes like dumb brutes? There are the new acute risks of total destruction, environmental and nuclear, which make the old ways even more perilous and self destructive.

In this respect, I can't help but refer to the modern historical revisionism of Japan, which denies its 20th Century crimes against humanity. Now too, their advocates in South Korea, who are currently in the process of trying to erase Korean history in favor of US and Japanese geopolitical interests. This includes all aspects of culture and education. The new theme is colonialism is good for you. It reminds me of the DeSantis school curriculum/ textbook revision theme, slavery was good for African Americans.

I've watched a fair number of professional and amateur travelogues in East Asia, and can't help but notice the similarities in the way of customs, folkways, and way of life, especially in the more remote areas. The picture of the mask above reminds me a lot of the masks commonly seen in Korean traditional culture. I tend to associate them with animistic/shamanistic beliefs, a kind of mystical divination of the boundaries between human experience and the unknowable. I think in modern times art of all kinds plays this role.

QMS you asked yesterday what are you listening to? Inevitably, I return to these two great artists from the good old days-

Dear Friend, Jo Yong-pil

꿈은 A dream
하늘에서 잠자고 In the sky sleeping
추억은 Memory
구름따라 흐르고 flows following clouds
친구여 Dear Friend
모습은 어딜 갔나 Your visage, where has it gone?
그리운 친구여 Missed dear friend.

옛 일 Past days
생각이 날때마다 each time those thoughts arise,
우리 our
잃어버린 정 찾아 lost affection, I seek
친구여 Dear Friend
꿈속에서 만날까 in a dream shall we meet
조용히 눈을 감네 Quietly, close our eyes

슬픔도 기쁨도 Sadness and Joy too,
외로움도 함께 했지 loneliness too, we had together.
부푼 꿈 을 안고 Risen dream, embrace
내일을 다짐하던 Our promised tomorrow
우리 굳 센 약속 어디에 Our sure strong pledge where is it?

꿈은 The dream
하늘에서 잠자고 Sleeps in heaven
추억은 The memory
구름따라 흐르고 flows following clouds
친구여 Dear Friend
모습은 어딜 갔나 Your visage, where has it gone?
그리운 친구여 Missed dear friend.

I have another from Lee Son-hee from 1985, "Ah, the old days."

(edited for grammar)

6 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直


you are on to something here. If the timeline for experienced memory is 70 or so
years, the attempts to erase the lessons of history ie: Nazism, imperial Japanese,
fasccism, totalitarianism etc. and replace those memories with modern spin seem
to be underway. Unfortunately for the PTB, their constant shifting of perceived enemies
has watered down the fear factor. Under a barrage of propaganda, maybe some
people can be convinced of the evils abroad. Hopefully, more are recognizing the
evil running things at home?

5 users have voted.


finally stopped raining after 5 days
filling the mouse baits and enjoying the sunshine

musical interlude ..

3 users have voted.

China's first 350km/h cross-sea high-speed railway to start operation

(that's over 200 mph) and runs 277 km (about 172 miles) along the coast


This in the Fujian Province on China's east coast.


Why can't we have infrastructure progress here?

8 users have voted.
Lily O Lady's picture


6 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

soryang's picture

@QMS @QMS ...just opened last week. It runs between Orlando and Miami. I recall that it was suggested at one point, years back that such a line be constructed from Orlando to Tampa. What happened to that idea? Supposedly it was going to built in the median of the I-4 corridor. Instead they opted for two lane express lanes (there is a toll) which opened between the Florida Turnpike interchange and Longwood. Not enough. The I-4 corridor is still very congested, somewhat relieved only where the express lanes are located. The traffic is terrible elsewhere.

The new Miami-Orlando railway, someone commented is equivalent in speed to Japanese high speed rail constructed initially over 50 years ago. Better than nothing I suppose.

I should have mentioned top speed is 125mph.

7 users have voted.

語必忠信 行必正直

lotlizard's picture

… a prolific maker of anti-Chinese Wikipedia edits:

5 users have voted.


sending signals to appease anti-China stink tanks
embellishing Israel, fomenting capitalist aims in
South America all sounds like a major league
propagandist. But Wiki is OK with that? Ha.
No conflicts of interest on the surface means
the content managers are ignoring the obvious.
History is not the only thing being re-written.

5 users have voted.

we developed a writers circle in the library
the facilitator put out 3 white boards for us
to jot down various subjects

on the one labelled 'themes' I stewed for awhile
finally came up with 'dark political humor'
hmm, is that like writing for C99?

4 users have voted.

Shorter version.

4 users have voted.
dystopian's picture

Hey Capt. Q

I think this guy and I share ancestors...

Thanks for the OT!

3 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein