Open Thread WE 23 AUG 23 ~

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 7:02am

Picking the blues

Welcome to todays open thread. This morning I am featuring one of my favorite fruits -
the wild blueberry. Love them in pancakes, on ice cream, in pies and fresh off the bush.

Wild blueberries are native to North America, and in any given field, there are going to be 1000 different varieties. They all look different, and they all taste
different, and they are all planted by Mother Nature, not us.

This is from an article in our monthly edition of The Working Waterfront published by
The Island Institute in Maine. It is a non-profit organization dedicated to the preservation of the
coastal communities and fighting private development.

https://www.islandinstitute.org/stories/the-working-waterfront/
~

The Working Waterfront newspaper reports on the people and forces that shape Maine’s coastal and island communities. As publisher, Island Institute’s premise is that the cultural, environmental, and community assets here are rare and valuable, and are worth fighting for.

So, that's my bit to get today started. I'm sure there are many more themes out there you would
like to share, so please be my guest and throw in your own ingredients!

Tags:

Open Thread

blueberries

Vote

Comments

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 7:23am

Good morning

Found this interesting comment in yesterdays Debt Rattle by D. Benton Smith.
In part, he expounds on relative intelligence ..

At age four I was watching workmen repair our floor in St. Johns, Newfoundland where my Dad was stationed at the time. Along with their main tools of hammer, chisel and saw, the two men also had a one-burner fuel stove with a tin can full of slender square-cut wooden pegs, a jar of water, and a bag with more pegs to replace those in the the tin can as they got used up. A peg from the bag was put into the tin can to get maximally dried out. When the peg was hot, dry (and shrunken) they wood drive it into a round down through the floorboard and into the floor joist below, securing the board firmly. They then sawed off the peg even with the floor, poured a little water onto the spot and then move on to the next hole. It fascinated me how the square-cut peg completely filled the round hole JUST as it jammed tight and could be driven no further. They were really good at it, and I immediately knew how it all worked. They didn’t even think to explain it it to me, I was just a cute little four year old kind watching grownups. I just observed, and got it in an instant. The peg would expand when wet, and shrink when dry, so a CAREFULLY sized hole, and peg, would enable a DRY SHRUNKEN peg to just barely fit when driven into the hole, and because both the peg and the hole were wooden they deformed enough to fill the hole and make solid contact over their entire surface of shred contact. When dampened the peg expanded to fill the hole even tighter and increase the friction fit by an order of magnitude. Slick!

The point is this: that kind of cognitive edge can EASILY lead to the notion that because one is “superior” at one thing that one is, for that reason, automatically “superior” regarding some other thing as well. In point of fact, such a conclusion is false. It’s just not true at all. It’s not even logical. Being superior at abstract reasoning, for example, does not confer superiority in regard to ANY other thing. None at all.

He goes on to include concepts like conceit, morality, the right to fair treatment and even the right to self-managed life itself.

https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2023/08/debt-rattle-august-22-2023/#co...

Submitted by fire with fire on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 12:56pm

Great anecdote about the pegs

@QMS @QMS @QMS

The point is this: that kind of cognitive edge can EASILY lead to the notion that because one is “superior” at one thing that one is, for that reason, automatically “superior” regarding some other thing as well. In point of fact, such a conclusion is false.

This insight is more pertinent, now, during our civilization-wide crisis of epistemology, than ever. We have huge disagreements about objective reality -- from public health policy, down to the sub-molecular level, to international affairs at the global level, we are now engaged in furious contention over what is factual and what is bullshit. This creates the temptation to deem your opponents idiots for not grasping the reality you see.

The brutal reality is this: Half of the American population is below average intelligence.
Of course, that is a tautology -- true but useless. From Wiki:

An intelligence quotient (IQ) is a total score derived from a set of standardised tests or subtests designed to assess human intelligence.[1] The abbreviation "IQ" was coined by the psychologist William Stern for the German term Intelligenzquotient, his term for a scoring method for intelligence tests at University of Breslau he advocated in a 1912 book.[2]

Historically, IQ was a score obtained by dividing a person's mental age score, obtained by administering an intelligence test, by the person's chronological age, both expressed in terms of years and months. The resulting fraction (quotient) was multiplied by 100 to obtain the IQ score.[3] For modern IQ tests, the raw score is transformed to a normal distribution with mean 100 and standard deviation 15.[4] This results in approximately two-thirds of the population scoring between IQ 85 and IQ 115 and about 2.5 percent each above 130 and below 70.[5][6]

Scores from intelligence tests are estimates of intelligence. Unlike, for example, distance and mass, a concrete measure of intelligence cannot be achieved given the abstract nature of the concept of "intelligence".[7] IQ scores have been shown to be associated with such factors as nutrition,[8][9][10] parental socioeconomic status,[11][12] morbidity and mortality,[13][14] parental social status,[15] and perinatal environment.[16] While the heritability of IQ has been investigated for nearly a century, there is still debate about the significance of heritability estimates[17][18] and the mechanisms of inheritance.[19]

The least persuasive argument in the universe is, "I'm right becauae I'm smarter than you are."

Found this interesting comment in yesterdays Debt Rattle by D. Benton Smith. In part, he expounds on relative intelligence .. ~ At age four I was watching workmen repair our floor in St. Johns, Newfoundland where my Dad was stationed at the time. Along with their main tools of hammer, chisel and saw, the two men also had a one-burner fuel stove with a tin can full of slender square-cut wooden pegs, a jar of water, and a bag with more pegs to replace those in the the tin can as they got used up. A peg from the bag was put into the tin can to get maximally dried out. When the peg was hot, dry (and shrunken) they wood drive it into a round down through the floorboard and into the floor joist below, securing the board firmly. They then sawed off the peg even with the floor, poured a little water onto the spot and then move on to the next hole. It fascinated me how the square-cut peg completely filled the round hole JUST as it jammed tight and could be driven no further. They were really good at it, and I immediately knew how it all worked. They didn’t even think to explain it it to me, I was just a cute little four year old kind watching grownups. I just observed, and got it in an instant. The peg would expand when wet, and shrink when dry, so a CAREFULLY sized hole, and peg, would enable a DRY SHRUNKEN peg to just barely fit when driven into the hole, and because both the peg and the hole were wooden they deformed enough to fill the hole and make solid contact over their entire surface of shred contact. When dampened the peg expanded to fill the hole even tighter and increase the friction fit by an order of magnitude. Slick! The point is this: that kind of cognitive edge can EASILY lead to the notion that because one is “superior” at one thing that one is, for that reason, automatically “superior” regarding some other thing as well. In point of fact, such a conclusion is false. It’s just not true at all. It’s not even logical. Being superior at abstract reasoning, for example, does not confer superiority in regard to ANY other thing. None at all. ~ He goes on to include concepts like conceit, morality, the right to fair treatment and even the right to self-managed life itself. https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2023/08/debt-rattle-august-22-2023/#co...

—

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 12:02pm

Yes, intelligence is relative to conceptual application

@fire with fire

Many high IQ types are dumb in some things. Specialization is for insects.
Same with those on the autistic spectrum. Memorizing phone numbers and
license plates may sooth certain brain functions, but the practical use of
that genius is limited. Social skill being especially unconnected.

Thanks for posting!

#1 #1 #1

The point is this: that kind of cognitive edge can EASILY lead to the notion that because one is “superior” at one thing that one is, for that reason, automatically “superior” regarding some other thing as well. In point of fact, such a conclusion is false.

This insight is more pertinent, now, during our civilization-wide crisis of epistemology, than ever. We have huge disagreements about objective reality -- from public health policy, down to the sub-molecular level, to international affairs at the global level, we are now engaged in furious contention over what is factual and what is bullshit. This creates the temptation to deem your opponents idiots for not grasping the reality you see.

The brutal reality is this: Half of the American population is below average intelligence.
Of course, that is a tautology -- true but useless. From Wiki:

An intelligence quotient (IQ) is a total score derived from a set of standardised tests or subtests designed to assess human intelligence.[1] The abbreviation "IQ" was coined by the psychologist William Stern for the German term Intelligenzquotient, his term for a scoring method for intelligence tests at University of Breslau he advocated in a 1912 book.[2]

Historically, IQ was a score obtained by dividing a person's mental age score, obtained by administering an intelligence test, by the person's chronological age, both expressed in terms of years and months. The resulting fraction (quotient) was multiplied by 100 to obtain the IQ score.[3] For modern IQ tests, the raw score is transformed to a normal distribution with mean 100 and standard deviation 15.[4] This results in approximately two-thirds of the population scoring between IQ 85 and IQ 115 and about 2.5 percent each above 130 and below 70.[5][6]

Scores from intelligence tests are estimates of intelligence. Unlike, for example, distance and mass, a concrete measure of intelligence cannot be achieved given the abstract nature of the concept of "intelligence".[7] IQ scores have been shown to be associated with such factors as nutrition,[8][9][10] parental socioeconomic status,[11][12] morbidity and mortality,[13][14] parental social status,[15] and perinatal environment.[16] While the heritability of IQ has been investigated for nearly a century, there is still debate about the significance of heritability estimates[17][18] and the mechanisms of inheritance.[19]

The least persuasive argument in the universe is, "I'm right becauae I'm smarter than you are."

Submitted by fire with fire on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 1:01pm

I call them book smart morons

@QMS and they drive me crazy.

—

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by ban nock on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 5:44pm

@QMS IQ and genetics are

@QMS IQ and genetics are something people love to hate.

Yes you can train kids to do well on IQ tests, but by the time they are adults, their scores revert to where they would be without tutoring.

Intelligence research is among the most replicable bodies of research in the social sciences.

One of the attributes of higher IQ is openness to ideas that conflict with one's own. I got a kick out of that one.

In the ever evolving fight over Ivy admissions they found that though income was a greater prediction of bright applicants, people who weren't admitted but had a higher IQ ended up making more money.

At one time a friend who was going to grad school at harvard (edu) had me take an IQ test administered by a friend of his. It took a while and the result was that I'm not a genius. I think genius is 145 and above. I didn't read much more than the last paragraph, it was a long test. Recently I found the old paper and re read it. Despite not being a genius I'm fairly bright, more so than most. The one part I scored lower than they'd expected was short term memory, ha ha. I used to smoke pot all day. IQ is highly heritable.

Found this interesting comment in yesterdays Debt Rattle by D. Benton Smith. In part, he expounds on relative intelligence .. ~ At age four I was watching workmen repair our floor in St. Johns, Newfoundland where my Dad was stationed at the time. Along with their main tools of hammer, chisel and saw, the two men also had a one-burner fuel stove with a tin can full of slender square-cut wooden pegs, a jar of water, and a bag with more pegs to replace those in the the tin can as they got used up. A peg from the bag was put into the tin can to get maximally dried out. When the peg was hot, dry (and shrunken) they wood drive it into a round down through the floorboard and into the floor joist below, securing the board firmly. They then sawed off the peg even with the floor, poured a little water onto the spot and then move on to the next hole. It fascinated me how the square-cut peg completely filled the round hole JUST as it jammed tight and could be driven no further. They were really good at it, and I immediately knew how it all worked. They didn’t even think to explain it it to me, I was just a cute little four year old kind watching grownups. I just observed, and got it in an instant. The peg would expand when wet, and shrink when dry, so a CAREFULLY sized hole, and peg, would enable a DRY SHRUNKEN peg to just barely fit when driven into the hole, and because both the peg and the hole were wooden they deformed enough to fill the hole and make solid contact over their entire surface of shred contact. When dampened the peg expanded to fill the hole even tighter and increase the friction fit by an order of magnitude. Slick! The point is this: that kind of cognitive edge can EASILY lead to the notion that because one is “superior” at one thing that one is, for that reason, automatically “superior” regarding some other thing as well. In point of fact, such a conclusion is false. It’s just not true at all. It’s not even logical. Being superior at abstract reasoning, for example, does not confer superiority in regard to ANY other thing. None at all. ~ He goes on to include concepts like conceit, morality, the right to fair treatment and even the right to self-managed life itself. https://www.theautomaticearth.com/2023/08/debt-rattle-august-22-2023/#co...

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 6:19pm

wonderful reply

@ban nock

tells a lot about testing vis a vis preconceived notions

thanks

Submitted by Marie1 on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 10:36pm

Since it took so long,

@ban nock
guess you took the Stanford-Binet individually administered test. Not easy to administer, but it provides a wealth of information in addition to a calculated score.

As you note, test prepping for an IQ test is a waste of time because IQ is stable over time. IOW cheating on the test doesn't increase the person's IQ.

Submitted by on the cusp on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:18am

FWIW,

a holistic cancer center in Tijuana recommends blueberries as anti-cancer antioxidants. So, they are delicious and healthy for us.
Speaking of cancer, I am headed to the dermatologist who will likely slice off a portion of my upper lip to determine if that persistent red spot is a skin cancer.
So, I might be masking up after all, so as not to frighten small children.
Hope all is well with one and all.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:37am

good luck with the biopsy

@on the cusp

Blueberries are often called a “superfood.” This small but mighty berry is loaded with nutrients . They may help lower blood pressure, prevent heart disease, improve memory, aid in exercise recovery, and more.

Lowbush or “wild” blueberries: Typically smaller and richer in some antioxidants.

Fiber: 3.6 grams
Vitamin C: 16% of the Daily Value (DV)
Vitamin K: 24% of the DV
Manganese: 22% of the DV

Blueberries reduce DNA damage, which may help protect against aging and cancer.

Submitted by soryang on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 2:19pm

Good luck OTC

@on the cusp I have to see the dermatologist every 6 months. I didn't have to have any incisions on the last visit luckily. Wish you the best.

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by on the cusp on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 3:08pm

A scheduling goof.

@soryang I go back tomorrow for The Lip Snip.
Most of my biopsies have shown basal cell carcinoma, and that is the "good" type.
I am a red head and have very pale skin. The scarring is not really noticeable.
I apply Vitamin E cream lavishly, usually heal quite quickly.
When I did the nose slice, it blacked both eyes, of course. And the next day I had to appear in court. I told everyone I had been in a bar room brawl, and you ought to see what that sob looks like.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by soryang on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 4:55pm

Yes

@on the cusp I spent too much time in the sun. At the beach mostly in FL. I did a lot of jogging and swimming. I got the first ones in the creases behind my knee joints, to me obviously from jogging for decades.

When I wasn't jogging I was swimming. I used to favor my right side in free style breathing so my right arm is all scars now. I've had every type of skin cancer. I enjoyed the outdoors in Florida, and made it this far, so I can't complain. Living the dream, another day in paradise, etc. I don't go out unless the UV is low now. Same thing fair skin.

"You ought to see the other SOB." LOL we used to own a pub when I couldn't find a job. I was going to write a book about it, but thought some of my ex-customers might not like it. I didn't think I could tell the stories without identities being guessable. It was a rough neighborhood, definitely not our style. Brawls in the pub, and homicides, drugs, gangs, you name it, in the immediate neighborhood. The American Dream. What a place.

This song was something of a joke at the pub. Virtually all the regulars were beer drinking working people.

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by on the cusp on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 5:53pm

My brother owned a beer joint/pool hall.

@soryang Very few fights, and because my family has tons of black friends, there were always blacks there to shoot pool and dance.
The only fight I witnessed was a drunk Houston cop and his pal, a drunk FBI agent,jumped on a black guy. My brother and Dad jumped into the fray, and just as the FBI guy was reaching for the gun in his poket to kill the black guy, I grabbed the gun, ran into the bathroom, locked the door, took the gun off safety, and pointed it at the door. The man was instantly smashing his body against the door, and I screamed that it was pointed at where I thought his penis was, and if the door opened, I would shoot it off.
The sheriff arrived, told me to open the door, hand him the gun, and do not shoot the man's penis off. I agreed.
It is a big no no for cops and agents to take guns into bars unless they are on duty. The Houston cop was later fired, when the FBI agent got his government issued gun back, he blew his brains out with it.
We did see the young 21-25 year olds getting high doing mushrooms. It always made them want to run down the middle of the highway at night.
Glad those days are long gone, and the good guys in the brawl that are still living, are still close friends, still telling the story.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 6:23pm

great story

@on the cusp

thanks.
Glad I wasn't the only one to live thru that sh*t.

Submitted by soryang on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 7:10pm

Classic bar story

@on the cusp don't think I had any that bad.

I think the brawls were quite limited, because the bigger regulars would just put them in a bear hug and drag them outside. Only had one brawl get out of control once, like bedlam. The lumpers from a local moving company would come on Fridays and get a little rowdy. There were only a couple of drivers to keep them under control. After the one brawl, it didn't happen again. The regulars were very relaxed, they all knew each other. There were a few dicey situations. It's not a good life style.

One of the neighboring store owners was an immigrant from Lebanon who started a small convenience store. He was doing pretty well for a while. There was a neighboring Thai store between us, sold VHS tapes from SE Asia and clothing. Someone murdered her after I left the pub one Sunday evening in her shop. After that the Lebanese shop owner said "I thought Lebanon was violent, I'm leaving." He was gone in a couple of days. As I recall after he left, his space was rented to a Thai gang, they said it was a social club but they sold drugs. Had some trouble with them. Finally, the police raided the place after several months and got rid of them.

After several years a law school classmate called me to work on some products liability litigation, and I practically gave the place away. That gig only lasted for about 30 months.

—

語必忠信行必正直

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:33am

Gahh. I feel

your pain. I just made my annual trip to the dermatologist, wherein she sliced the usual 10-15 spots of squamous-cell skin cancer off my shoulders and back- courtesy of all those shirtless, carefree days of my youth back in the 60s, pre-sunscreen.

They've stopped popping up on my face, finally, but not before I began to look like friggin' Charles Bronson from the craters. Talk about frightening the children! The ones on the nose are the worst...

On edit- that was supposed to be a reply to OTC. It's early.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by on the cusp on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:35am

I have seen people

@usefewersyllables who have had so many skin cancers removed that they look like they had a facelift to remove wrinkles!
Yep. That bastard on my nose was a doozy to remove!
It is forecast that tomorrow will reach 106 deg.
Shit.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:45am

It seems sad to say,

@on the cusp

but this may be one case where being female might actually be an advantage. The derm might take a little more care with the scarring. With me, she just said, "Don't worry, it'll make you look distinguished!". Well, if you define "distinguished" as "looks like you went bird hunting with Dick Cheney", maybe...

Good luck today!

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by on the cusp on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 9:46am

Lol!

@usefewersyllables Funny how there was no coroner's report on the Cheney hunt.
The plastic surgeons do seem to care. Some.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 11:17am

The trick is to find wild tapioca, because blueberry pies are

most easily made using a tapioca thickener. Just sayin'

A very brief internet search indicates that there re wild blueberries in CA, , but that they won't be too easy to find and aren't too near my place. However, I am recalling the joys of and uses for blueberries and am likely to start raiding my wife's stash of frozen ones from costco.

Meanwhile, it is 23-8-23, a nice palindrome. They say that today's weather "here" will be 92, which means 100 in our back yard, but still not Texas weather. I get PT today, which sorta wrecks the whole day, so I guess it's time to start all of the daily whatnot.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 11:53am

good luck with the PT

@enhydra lutris

I refer to that process as Physical Torture, although there are some practitioners who
are not of the 'no-pain, no-gain' school of thought. Rare tho.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 12:12pm

In this case, because it is neurological, the "no pain,

@QMS

no gain" approach isn't really correct. Pain so far has been purely accidental, from improper movement. There is some strengthening called for, but not involving strain, no lifting or anything like that, etc.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by humphrey on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 2:11pm

Let the CTs begin.

The best close up of the Embraer owned by Wagner boss Prigozhin as it plunged from the sky pic.twitter.com/oaIyfwUhpQ

— What the media hides. (@narrative_hole) August 23, 2023

The pilots of the crashed aircraft did not inform the dispatchers about any emergency situations. ㅤ

This is due to the fact that the situation on board the aircraft developed very quickly. ㅤ

Traces, similar to holes from hitting ready-made submunitions of an anti-aircraft… pic.twitter.com/3Okd0SCcA7

— dana (@dana916) August 23, 2023

The jet was missing a wing from the video of the jet falling. Therefore, an explosion took place & caused the crash. Prigozhin's name was on the list of passengers, and we need to wait for the body's recovery to confirm the official news. The black box will offer an explanation.

— Elijah J. Magnier (@ejmalrai) August 23, 2023

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 2:17pm

Thanks humphry - just heard of that myself and was

@humphrey

going to post something, but no videos or anything. Let the CTs begin indeed.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 2:19pm

Hoo, boy.

@humphrey

This one is going to be interesting to watch.

"Nice jet you got there. It'd be a shame if anything happened to it..."

Lay down with the fleas, and end up with dogs... There'll be herds of zebras thundering across the steppes, posthaste. I just know it.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by humphrey on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 2:49pm

And so it begins. LOL

@usefewersyllables

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4167176-biden-russian-plane-...

President Biden on Wednesday suggested that Russian President Vladimir Putin could be behind the crash of a plane in Russia that had Wagner Group chief Yevgeny Prigozhin listed as a passenger.

“There’s not much that happens in Russia that Putin’s not behind,” Biden said told reporters.

“But I don’t know enough to know the answer. I’ve been working out for the last hour and a half,” he added.

The president was briefed on the crash shortly after Russian media outlets confirmed Prigozhin was on the passenger list, as well as nine other people, who were all reportedly killed

Submitted by usefewersyllables on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 3:39pm

And then you have

@humphrey

*this* winner:

https://twitter.com/BossLukashenko/status/1694440976360550902

Hang onto your hollyhocks, ladeez und chentlemens: things are going to get weirder from here.

—

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Submitted by QMS on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 6:26pm

taken out

@usefewersyllables

as a means to repression
sad

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 08/23/2023 - 8:13pm

Comments in Sputnik blame CIA

https://sputnikglobe.com/20230823/what-is-known-so-far-about-deadly-busi...

Langley rumors say CIA payback after Wagner boss Prigozhin doubled crossed them. They wanted to accident him in Russia to make it appear as Putin got him and create animosity towards Putin. #CrystalBall
Korol Koshek
24 August, 01:07 GMT

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --