Two Big Republican Campaign Lies

If you spend any time on right-wing web sites or watching right-wing TV you'll notice two popular memes - crime and immigration.
Essentially, the country is drowning in criminals and illegal immigrants (who frequently fall into both categories) and the Democrats are actually causing it and encouraging it, while only Republicans are on your side, fighting it.
Let's start with crime.

“We’re seeing murders in our cities, all Democrat-run,” former President Donald Trump asserted at a March 26 rally in Georgia. “People are afraid to go out.”

In February, Sen. Tom Cotton, R-Ark., blamed Democrats for a 2018 law that reduced some federal prison sentences — even though it was signed by Trump after passing a GOP-controlled Congress. “It’s your party who voted in lockstep for the First Step Act that let thousands of violent felons on the street who have now committed innumerable violent crimes,” Cotton said during a speech in the Senate.

Last December, Rep. Dan Crenshaw, R-Texas, told Fox News viewers, “America’s most beautiful cities are indeed being ruined by liberal policies: There’s a direct line between death and decay and liberal policies.”

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Democrats being "soft on crime" has been a consistent theme since the 1970's. This got turbo-charged with the George Floyd protests and the calls to defund the police.
Of course, no police departments were even partly defunded.

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The reality is that, generally, the more Republican the state the worse the crime rate.

murder rates are far higher in Trump-voting red states than Biden-voting blue states. And sometimes, murder rates are highest in cities with Republican mayors.

For example, Jacksonville, a city with a Republican mayor, had 128 more murders in 2020 than San Francisco, a city with a Democrat mayor, despite their comparable populations. In fact, the homicide rate in Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s San Francisco was half that of House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy’s Bakersfield, a city with a Republican mayor that overwhelmingly voted for Trump. Yet there is barely a whisper, let alone an outcry, over the stunning levels of murders in these and other places.
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We found that murder rates are, on average, 40% higher in the 25 states Donald Trump won in the last presidential election compared to those that voted for Joe Biden. In addition, murder rates in many of these red states dwarf those in blue states like New York, California, and Massachusetts. And finally, many of the states with the worst murder rates—like Mississippi, Kentucky, Alabama, South Carolina, and Arkansas—are ones that few would describe as urban. Only 2 of America’s top 100 cities in population are located in these high murder rate states. And not a single one of the top 10 murder states registers in the top 15 for population density.
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Eight of the top ten worst murder rate states voted for Trump in 2020. None of those eight has supported a Democrat for president since 1996.

This is essentially the opposite of everything you will see on Fox News.
Besides Democrats being soft on crime, they are also gun grabbers.

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Consider Chicago, which is a favorite target of Second Amendment extremists because of its higher murder rate (28.49 per 100,000) and stringent gun control. However, most guns used in crimes in Chicago aren’t purchased in Chicago or even Illinois. Sixty percent of guns recovered in crimes in Chicago come from Indiana and Mississippi, two very red states with extremely lax gun laws that are within easy driving distance of the Windy City.

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An even more popular campaign theme is "chaos at the border" and "Democrats aren't protecting our borders". To prove this Fox News uses statistics showing that Democrats are arresting illegal immigrants like never before, because Biden is "invite them to cross" somehow.

First, a grim milestone: The number of known migrant deaths at the border reached 609 so far this year compared to 566 in all of 2021. This death toll does not include the numerous bodies discovered in rugged, desert areas further north of the border in California, Arizona, New Mexico, and Texas.

Second, from October 2021 to June 2022, the Border Patrol has logged some 2 million migrant encounters at the southern border—an all-time record.

Third, in June alone, the Border Patrol apprehended 207,000 migrants, the most ever for that month.

Immigrants dying in U.S. custody has gone from "well, they shouldn't have broken our laws" under Trump, to "this is a tragedy" under Biden. High numbers of detained immigrants was something that Trump was proud of, but is now a flaw for some reason that I don't really understand.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

The first "kids in cages" article I read was in 2014; neither party was complaining.

Crocodile-tears from whichever party doesn't presently occupy the White House.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Cassiodorus's picture

is that the public be consistently coerced into buying one of two messages:

1) R good, D bad

2) D good, R bad

Enormous quantities of money go into these two media messages, regardless of their popularity or ratings. Millions of dollars would fund MSNBC or FOX even if nobody watched them. And people wonder why some of us have been persistently calling for a "third party." At any rate, I hope I've explained the phenomena you cite, which fall under category #1 above.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

@Cassiodorus lately, it's been a mix of #s 1 and 2 that you mention. Not sure if that Bothsideist approach is going to solve anything or make for a more informed public or bring more viewers to CNN.

As for a 3d party, presumably you speak of one on the progressive Left, but the problem is there doesn't seem to be much of a Left from which to form much more than a small dinner party.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@wokkamile even if the "third party" in question happened to be another money party. See my diary here.

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

@Cassiodorus on the left might be needed, but as I said, there seem so few on the true prog left with which to form such a party.

And good luck getting $$$ out of politics. Would need Congress to act boldly with a new federal law prohibiting all contributions during an election period (say 90 days before the election) and the law would need to restrict the ability of Scotus to review it. So far the D Congress has been reluctant to act on any sort of Court reform restraining its oversized and illegitimate power.

The Forward Party?? Looks like Joe Scarborough would love that one. Neither Yang nor the center-right Whitman can articulate much in the policy positions and principles area except to express some Yang math that splits every issue down the middle, a little for the right a little for the left. It's all above-the-fray self-righteous centrism.

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Cassiodorus's picture

@wokkamile The point is that the Forward Party will be challenged, in every way, by an army of lawyers hired by the Democrats, who do not like their monopoly on "centrism" challenged. (The Republicans, being a cult, are not centrists, and so do not feel so challenged.) And in the resultant legal battles we will "discover" that there is no Constitutional guarantee for the sacred two-party system, and a lot of "centrist" money will be wasted in making this "discovery."

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"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama

@Cassiodorus relax -- the Forward Party likely will get no momentum, precisely for the reason you allude to, namely that the DP already well represents centrists. They already have a home. Thus there doesn't seem to be much raison d'être for the FP. I see the Forward Pty dying a slow, quiet death by virtue of lack of public interest. Probably bc most voters want pols and parties to actually stand strong for something.

Same thing happened to the idea of Bret Weinstein in 2020 to create a similar centrist 3d party -- it would be a "unity" presidential ticket, a pol from the center-right teams up with a pol from the center-left and they take turns governing, one for the first two years then the other for the remainder of the term. Idea was silly and went nowhere.

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[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjOdXnOT2xE]

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RcCb6BJtjc]

Of course the *real* threat is those Trump-supporting white supremacist insurrectionists... I mean, Kamala, the Big Guy and the head of DHS say so, so it must be true.

Tucker C. 9:11 Domestic terrorism.jpg

view on Rumble

Like this guy - who sprayed pepper spray at the J-6 demo - he says at people he believed to be Antifa who were attacking police. Who now has served more than half as long in pre-trial detention:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/04/exclusive-cancer-patient-arrest...

as *this* guy served of a three year sentence for Aggravated Assault, that had been reduced from an initial two counts of Attempted First Degree Murder. After which release he live-streamed killing four people and wounding of three - including (killing) a young mother in front of her child as she went to assist him, believing him injured...

https://heavy.com/news/ezekiel-kelly/

Bonus track:

'Mostly peaceful' kidnapping and robbery at knifepoint - Kenosha 'demonstrators:

https://kenoshacountyeye.com/2022/09/13/kenosha-rioting-duo-including-ma...

Republicans agree - Democrats should definitely run on crime and immigration this cycle.

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@Blue Republic So according to Republicans I've been murdered by illegal immigrants three times already this year.

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@gjohnsit
I found it to be a living hell of in-your-face class bigotry and "liberal" hypocrisy. Diane Feinstein, Nancy Pelosi and Willie Brown did mot just come from SF, they define SF. It is no surprise that the only crime that has increased in San Francisco is shoplifting. (according to SFPD statistics) In SF people don't commit "street crime" - that's for poor people. There's much more money in real estate development, wage theft, and slum lording.
When I left SF I vowed never to vote for a Democrat ever again. (I'm 65 and have never voted for a Republican)

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On to Biden since 1973

@doh1304 where I welcome the in-your-face class bigotry of the wealthy over having to tolerate yet another liberal tell me that "you can't separate race and gender from class". Knowing full well that the liberal has never willingly brought up the topic of class even once in their life except to dismiss it.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@gjohnsit 'Can you separate race, class, and gender from psychology and biology?'

Seldom do people dare to ask where society itself comes from - especially since all three of those categories are well-known to be total illusions (pseudointellectuals of course prefer the term "construct" to make it sound as if ANYTHING they work with in any way real).

Even more important, of course, is the (Phillip K.) Dick-Test:

"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away."

That's what I hate most about all this IdPo stuff: They're dealing with illusions, so the ONLY solution (or at least the essential first step) is to STOP BELIEVING IN THEM - instead they are determined to work as vectors for the parasitic memes that consume them. This shit was MORIBUND, my generation has been forcibly devolved and robbed of its rightful place in history!

Once again, politics and science simply do not mix, and the results when they do are almost invariably catastrophic to both science and people.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

@gjohnsit

So far.

Those that *are* killed by illegal immigrants though, are 100% dead - no less so if they are 'outliers'.

https://nypost.com/2021/08/05/minnesota-beheading-suspect-is-an-illegal-...

https://www.ibtimes.com/man-accused-beheading-ex-girlfriend-child-rape-c...

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usefewersyllables's picture

is in power: they simply want to control the machine that manufactures the two-minutes-hate du jour.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XvGmOZ5T6_Y width:400 height:300]

Keeps us from looking at *them*, you see. And it works a treat.

As one of the commenters on YouTube observed, "The irony in this scene is that if they weren't shouting, they'd hear Goldstein actually speaking on the method of control currently being used on them. You can hear snippets of it, he's talking about hate being used to distract from key issues."

What he was actually saying: "Nothing the Party says is true. Nothing the Party does is good. Even the war itself isn't real. The Party wants you to believe we are at war so as to channel your aggressions away from the rightful target, the Party. Big Brother is not real. He is pure fiction, created by the Party. The real rulers of the state of Oceania are unknown, faceless manipulators of the Inner Party who, because they are not known, are able to wield power without let or hindrance. People of Oceania, you are being duped. The Party doesn't serve its people, it serves itself. We are not at war with Eurasia. You are being made into obedient, stupid slaves of the Party. Open your eyes. See the evil that is happening to you. The Party drops bombs on its own citizens. It is the Party, not the Eurasians, who are our enemies. Rise up. Throw off the yoke. You have nothing to lose, and everything to gain. People of Oceania."

Everything old is, in fact, new again.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables
a lie is a lie is a lie. And it needs to be called out.
When the Dems invented Russiagate that needed to be called out.
Now the Repubs are reinventing the "Dems are soft on crime" lie, and that needs to be called out. Even Blue Republic seems to have fallen for it. So if someone on C99P believes it, then this needed to be posted.

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usefewersyllables's picture

@gjohnsit

that sentiment. All the lies need to be called out. I guess that my point was that whatever one team is pointing at and saying "Bad! Unclean! Hate! Look what they do!" is *always* a lie, regardless of which team utters it. Always. Period, end of statement.

If one team points something out, it is always a lie. Further, it is always projection, which is to say that it is always something that they themselves also do when they can get away with it.

So war es schon immer. It has always been so. This has never changed. More of us are finally becoming aware of it, but it has always been this way: they lie, they have always lied, and whatever they throw into our faces the most vigorously is always the biggest lie of all.

Thus: everything old is new again. I stand by that claim.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@usefewersyllables

So war es schon immer. It has always been so. This has never changed. More of us are finally becoming aware of it, but it has always been this way: they lie, they have always lied, and whatever they throw into our faces the most vigorously is always the biggest lie of all.

Thus: everything old is new again. I stand by that claim.

What's the difference between Queen Elizabeth and the Members of the House of Commons?

Her Majesty lies in state. An MP just, well, lies. Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

@gjohnsit

how would you characterize this?

An Illinois law taking effect in the new year will release those charged with second-degree murder, aggravated battery and arson without bail.

Illinois law will release those charged with second-degree murder without bail

The so-called SAFE-T Act would end cash bail and includes 12 non-detainable offences, second-degree murder, aggravated battery and arson without bail, as well as drug-induced homicide, kidnapping, burglary, robbery, intimidation, aggravated DUI, aggravated fleeing and eluding, drug offences and threatening a public official.

All these crimes will become non-detainable offences after the act takes effect on January 1, meaning criminals will be charged with and released for these crimes without bail.

Will County State’s Attorney James Glasgow said it will be the “end of days” once the law takes effect. Will County is the second largest county of the 6-county Chicago metro region.

The bill “will destroy the city and the state of Illinois,” Glasgow said on July 16. “I don’t even understand (how) the people who support it can’t realize that.”

The law also restricts those who can be arrested. For example, those accused of trespassing can be ticket but not arrested once the law takes effect.

Glasgow said he, police, and judges will all have their “hands tied” once the law takes effect.

He said that all 640 people currently being held in the Will County jail would have their bonds extinguished after January 1 — including 60 people charged with murder. Glasgow said he won’t be able to hold anyone in jail for longer than 90 days if they demand a trial, and after the 90th day, they’ll get out “no matter what crime they committed.”

Source: Countersignal

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@Blue Republic as a biased and misleading take probably from a RW site using a single RW source.

Not an Illinoisan, but this new law appears to still always give judges the ability to decide in individual cases who shall be permitted out and who must remain behind bars, which is the way it should be. It's a way of restoring some justice to the justice system by not penalizing arrestees for lack of money. We all know who most of the people are who end up not having the cash to make bail, which is probably why cash bail has remained SOP in this country for so long. https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/illinois-safe-t-act-end-cash-bai...

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@wokkamile

That in the case of forcible felonies release is not automatic.

BUT - check the fine print of the link you referred me to and you will see that a hearing before a judge to determine whether pre-trial release in such cases is not automatic *either* - it will only be held if the state requests it. And if they don't...?

Other issues with the bill include the large number of offenses for which people cannot be detained (only cited) AT ALL. Like trespassing. Which, I guess means that if someone decides to set up a tent, live in your front yard and use your flower bed for a latrine your legal recourse would be... what, exactly?

FWIW I agree that people should not be penalized in the legal system simply for being poor (and that no-one should have to spend extended periods in pre-trial detention) - but neither should society be penalized by allowing a relatively small number of offenders serially offend with impunity.

How this has been working out in NYC post-'reform':

If you look at defendants arrested for felonies in just the first two months of the 2020 bail laws (again, from July 1, 2020 to Aug. 30, 2020)...(h)ere’s what the data show:

In New York City in that time period, 3,680 defendants were arraigned for felonies. Fully 70% of them (2,564) had a prior or pending case at the time of arrest. Among those 2,564, there were 2,401 pending cases, and more than 11,539 prior convictions. These were not first-time offenders. Nor were they last-time offenders: OCA data shows 31% of these people were re-arrested before their case was disposed.

And note the qualifier: “before their case was disposed.” That number does not include arrests while awaiting sentence or after sentence. In fact, OCA initially included those arrests with the data but then quickly “corrected” it, eliminating almost 25,000 re-arrests, thereby reducing the re-arrest rate.

Looking more closely at these felony arrests, 594 of the defendants had a prior pending violent felony offense — burglary, attempted murder, assault, rape or kidnapping — when they were arraigned. Incredibly, 190, or one in three of them, were released on no bail on their new case. And 58% (111 out of 190) were arrested again before their case was disposed.

Note, too, that 915 of these felony defendants had a prior pending non-violent felony arrest — car theft, grand larceny, drugs and commercial burglary, for example — with 375 released on no bail. Of those freed, 62% (231 defendants) were arrested again before their case was disposed.

Of the defendants arrested for home burglaries, 89% had a prior or pending case. And of the 73 released with no bail, 40 (or 55%) were re-arrested while their case was pending. By contrast, only 15% of the home-burglary defendants who had bail set were re-arrested.

Source: NY Post

BTW - how's your support for no *ideological* double standards? Any concern to spare for those J-6 protestors who have spent more than a year and a half in pretrial confinement and DENIED bail?

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@Blue Republic about your fine print point, as no cite was given to assess your statement, but even if true logically there would be great incentive for prosecutors to request such hearing, and for the judge to carefully assess the situation, and virtually no incentive for complete inaction. In that hypothetical inaction scenario, it would after all be the prosecutors and judge whose reputations and jobs will be on the line if either no action is taken or if the judge blunders and the wrong person is allowed to go free and commit another crime. The new reform law makes these officials more accountable, which is a good thing.

Obviously there's always a risk with any new reform measure that it won't be air tight in all cases -- it probably won't be perfect in execution, like all the other laws. And we can be confident that the RW press will be there to report loudly with its fear mongering if one detainee among thousands manages to slip through the cracks and create more mischief. But the system is badly in need of reform, as the US with 5% of the world's population accounts for 25% of the world's prisoners. Comparing IL as a state with other countries shows it trails only the US as a whole in rates of incarceration of its population. It's #2 in the world, ranking well ahead of the next country, UK. Something needed to be done, and this new law seems one worth giving a try. https://www.prisonpolicy.org/profiles/IL.html

As for the moron insurrectionist J6 detainees, if you would provide an updated link on any being held pre-trial I will take a look. But a caution as I tend not to have much sympathy for participants in a violent mob seeking to overthrow an election. Here is a helpful NPR piece from a few months ago which looks at some of the motley crew of extremists being held pre-trial. Understandable from that info that the fed judge would consider them either a flight risk or a danger to the community. https://www.npr.org/2022/04/14/1092580753/capitol-riot-january-6-insurre...

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@wokkamile

Not sure about your fine print point, as no cite was given to assess your statement

Take a look at the local news video in the link you sent me at 1:40.

Where it says that a hearing (in the case of someone charged with a forcible felony) must be held "upon verified petition by the state" which I take to mean that a court hearing is *not* automatic.

And what about the situation where the current charge is not a forcible felony but the arrestee has an extensive of violence? Doesn't sound like there is any provision for pre-trial detention in such a case.

And yes, you'd think prosecutors would be on the ball and demanding hearings where release could potentially endanger the community. But then you could look at the record of (Illinois State's Attorney for Cook County) Kim Foxx and conclude well, maybe not...

https://news.wttw.com/2022/08/02/cook-county-state-s-attorney-kim-foxx-f...

https://cwbchicago.com/2022/07/veteran-prosecutor-abruptly-quits-ripping...

In 2021 Chicago police made arrests in only 26% of homicide cases and Foxx's office declined to prosecute in over 130 of the ones referred to them by police. Such cases are considered 'cleared' and investigation closed even if police believe they identified the perpetrator.

https://chicago.suntimes.com/crime/2022/3/31/22996487/cpd-police-departm...

As for J-6, here's one, Andrew Taake, of hundreds - incarcerated in federal prison pretrial since July 2021 (others have been held *pretrial* for even longer). "Moron insurrectionist"? You decide:

Phone interview
Citizens Against Political Perseceution.jpg

(Couldn't embed) Listen/view on Rumble

Exactly one year after his incarceration, Taake sits in United States Penitentiary, Lewisburg, in an isolated area of the prison that houses some of the United States most dangerous criminals. The facility was home to notorious criminals like John Gotti, Whitey Bulgar and a number of foreign terrorists. Its now houses five January 6’ers, deemed too “dangerous” for even DC Gitmo.

Taake and others like him await trial in a “jail limbo” of sorts- in segregated areas of prisons and jails created just for J6’ers in facilities like Lewisburg and DC Gitmo. They will be waiting a long time- many trial dates are not set until 2023 or later. The conditions in these areas are worse than the rest of the prison, as the inmates have no chance of a normal schedule or socialization due to their designation as a pre-trial January 6th defendant and Trump Supporter. For example, they eat meals alone in their cells rather than in a cafeteria like most of the prison does.
...
Taake desperately needs funds for legal counsel as he is currently at the mercy of a leftist public defender that has not even shown him his video discovery after a year behind bars.
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According to Taake:

“I have said since day one, I will stand for my JUST punishment with my head held high, as long as the officer who sprayed me with pepper spray as soon as I walked up near the building smiling and holding my hands up empty gets his due justice. Same for the baton wielding, boot stomping officer who mangled my hand so badly, that I now am faced with having half my ring finger amputated as it is too far gone to ever repair. What about officer Lila Morris who murdered Roseanne Boyland, by beating her relentlessly in the head with a baton (as seen on her own body camera footage I personally have watched), or Lt Michael Byrd who shot Ashli Babbitt in cold blooded murder? What of the officer I watched time concussion grenades to explode right by peoples’ heads, of which two other protesters were killed, and then lied about saying they died of “natural causes”? When do the people murdered at the hands of Nancy Pelosi’s Storm Troopers get any justice?”

To make things worse, Taake suffers from a medical condition where his body does not produce enough testosterone, but is refused medical treatment as a prisoner of the Biden Regime. According to Taake, the jail is quick to inject transgender prisoners with estrogen that are interested in changing genders, but will not give him his medically necessary testosterone that was prescribed to him years before his incarceration.

Source

From Taake's account of his previous life and events of J-6:

I made my way up to the tower west terrace, hand raised, smiling, and chanting reminiscent from the Michael Brown false narrative “Hands up, Don’t Shoot,” I still didn’t notice police presence. As I stopped to look around at the crowd, I was smacked in the face by the worst burning sensation I’ve ever experienced. Instantly, I knew that I had been sprayed with police mace, since I had voluntarily taken a spray of civilian pepper spray before, and this was much worse! I had not seen an officer, been instructed to leave, or told that I was trespassing. It was clearly an unprovoked attack that was just a sign of what was to come. Luckily, after a few minutes of searing pain and blindness from the OC spray, another person came to my rescue with milk to wash the hornets from my eyes. The milk had been brought solely to soothe any sprays from Antifa attacks that day, (I personally spoke with the gentleman about this fact while we were together in DC Jail a couple of months ago), not because we thought the police were going to attack us while practicing our 1st amendment right. Coming from the 1st person to be sprayed by police that day, I will tell you the whole media narrative of that day is the REAL “Big Lie”. The officers there immediately went to chemical weapons, despite the fact that they never told us to leave or that we were in the wrong. I watched through burning eyes, as the crowd grew, and the roar of “USA! USA!” and “We the People” ascended to deafening levels. Before long, law enforcement arrived with massive half gallon cannons of OC spray that they were using on innocent people. It was like watching a child torment a wasp nest with Raid. The spray was being used on people not even on the frontline of the laughable bicycle rack barrier that was hastily erected. People who were 20-30 feet back were being brutalized by full flow sprays of chemicals. Little old ladies on their phones, sedate people simply waving flags were being hit in a clear attempt to intensify the atmosphere. As innocent rally goers were being sprayed, the police on the front lines were brutally beating citizens who were only chanting and yelling at the police. I, myself, am still suffering from a mangled finger from an overzealous, baton wielding officer.

Before long, you could hear the unmistakable cracks of the 40mm cannon launching CS (tear gas) cannisters, and the earthshaking concussion grenades being launched into the crowd. For some reason the police had escalated a protest into a riotous warzone. Funny this is, they NEVER declared a riot to the crowd as is legally necessary to start using chemical weapons against a crowd...

Source

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@Blue Republic that in the video portion you cite, but in any event whenever there is a forcible felony involved, as a practical matter the prosecution is not going to fail to request a hearing on release, so in that sense it is going to be automatic. It makes no sense for a prosecutor or judge to skip that important step and just hope the detainee being let out doesn't go Willie Horton -- they would soon be out of a job.

As for local prosecutors, they ultimately have to answer to the voters. If the unbiased facts indicate lax or sloppy prosecution, they will be held accountable. Of course, in some cases there may be lax or sloppy police work, leading to cases presented to the DA which were incompetently investigated, or worse. DA's want to go forward with professionally done investigations backed by solid evidence, something close to beyond reasonable doubt. This was one problem DA Chesa Boudin had with the incompetent/corrupt/lazy SFPD.

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@wokkamile

Your point about police work needing to be up to standards in order for cases to be brought successfully is reasonable. But in Kim Foxx's case (to cite an Illinois example) there is a lot of criticism about the high number of homicide cases her office has declined to proceed with - from police, veteran prosecutors and survivors of victims. Add to that her gross mishandling of the Jussie Smollett hoax and you can see an incompetent and/or biased prosecutor can do a lot of damage and still be on the job.

Kim Gardner (St. Louis) being another egregious example of what Soros $$ can buy:

Kim Gardner was supposed to be tough on crime.

Gardner, the first black woman to be elected St. Louis's circuit attorney, campaigned on progressive changes and vowed to go after criminals and hold them accountable. She did flashy interviews on 60 Minutes and Nightline and grabbed even more headlines when she sued the city, its police union, and five others in 2020 for what she called a racist effort to block her reform agenda.

Today, she stands accused by members of the public, her former employees, and a circuit court judge of a dereliction of duty. Her office has been faulted for making egregious errors that led to the dismissal of three murder cases in a week. They've also been accused of turning their backs on the families of victims and have been no-shows to multiple court hearings.

Source

She's been (if you can call it that) on the job for five years despite a trail of incompetence, and corrupt conduct extending back to well before she landed her current job...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimberly_Gardner

While there are a number of problems with the Safe-T act: Police not allowed to use force to stop escapes? Police not allowed to detain people for Criminal Trespassing or Assault? It isn't without redeeming features either and those deserve to be acknowledged.

There seems to be general acceptance that cash bail needs to go. The law also creates a positive obligation on the part of police to report improper conduct and prohibits charging someone with Resisting Arrest if there is no accompanying charge that the person was being arrested for - among some other reasonable/positive measures.

Thoughts on the J-6 prisoners?

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@Blue Republic mob members is that they shouldn't have tried to violently disrupt an important lawful federal proceeding. Those who are still being held awaiting trial need to apologize, own up to their unlawful conduct, and take a plea if available. Otherwise, with over 900 mob members arrested for J6, and with the fed system already overloaded, they face long delays.

And likely in most cases the judge(s) involved in determining release pre-trial are making sound evaluations as to the unacceptable risk of flight a/o danger to the community, esp as some of these detainees charged w serious crimes, like the Taake character, seem totally unrepentant.

On the other matters, unless I'm getting paid, and handsomely, I'm not interested in spending hours wading through the muck of stories often turning out to be from RW sites citing RW sources for their takes on various local prosecutors around the country located in counties and states with which I have zero connection. It's quite enough already for me to keep generally informed about the J6 situation, MAL and DJT, DAs Gascon and Boudin, Scotus and their cases and corruption, and fed court reform proposals. Iow, just about reached my saturation point in these legal areas.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

Those who are still being held awaiting trial need to apologize, own up to their unlawful conduct, and take a plea if available. Otherwise, with over 900 mob members arrested for J6, and with the fed system already overloaded, they face long delays.

Many of the people being held in solitary confinement haven’t ever seen a judge yet and no one should be okay with people being held in for any length of time. Maybe if you had read the stories about what people are being subjected to you might have a different opinion. Many have medical conditions that they aren’t getting treatment for and many families are suffering financially because of lack of income. I have been appalled that this is happening to people who haven’t been found guilty of anything. Sad to see how many people don’t have a problem with this.

Democrats have blown the 1/6 event all out of proportion and people seem to be okay with the treatment for their TDS and hating people who support Trump. You deny you have it but it comes through in many of your comments IMO.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg criticism of DJT or his fevered supporters = TDS.

As for "being okay with" J6 detainees in custody, I didn't really say that. I did say the system, afaik, was already overburdened and then add 900+ J6 arrestees further over clogging things. That's not "okay" nor any sort of endorsement, but it's merely an acknowledgment of reality. I did also offer a way out, to own up to their violent conduct and express true remorse, but many have not done this and have chosen to try to make themselves martyrs. Boo hoo. I am not impressed or persuaded by RW site one-sided versions of whatever sob story they are offering now. Perhaps you are, but no sale here.

And J6 is in no way being blown out of proportion, and no it wasn't merely people gathering peacefully to express support for Trump. He made clear in his rally speech earlier that people needed to go to the Capitol and "fight like hell" to "stop the steal". Fight like hell they did to breach Capitol security and then to enter the building, and then once inside to go after certain political targets. Even Josh Hawley was seen running for his life.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

And how convenient that you left out that Trump said peacefully and that he offered to make the national guard available that day and Pelosi turned him down. No one has answered why cops removed the barricades or who opened the door to the capital and let people in and just watched them peacefully walk past the cops who never said a word to them. That door only opens from the inside. Democrats are editing which videos they show and not the ones that would tell the whole story. Their hearings are pure propaganda to get people to only see their point of view and they refuse to allow anyone to offer a defense to their charges. That my dear is kabuki theater.

Everyone and their dawg knew that there could possibly be some violence that day, but Pelosi allowed everything to happen. There were lots of intelligence agents in the crowd too kinda reminiscent of the Whittmer kidnapping plot…

Bottom line is who are those people supposed to apologize to when they are stuck in a black hole? What part of them being held for over a year in solitary confinement without any crime proven against them? I consider that cruel and unusual punishment. Many people have been sentenced to long prison terms for basic trespassing. And every time they were the shitlibs cheered. I for one despise everything Trump stands for and did during his tenure, but I don’t let it blur my vision like it has most shitlibs. Either we have a justice system that works for all or we don’t.

We’re there some in the crowd that had other intentions. Yep. But most people didn’t and they only turned violent after cops shot tear gas and rubber bullets at them while they were just milling about. See? One side of the story has been pushed.

As for criticizing Trump, that’s one thing. But being blinded by your feelings about him is another.

Even Josh Hawley was seen running for his life.

You’re going to need to show proof of that.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg all Pelosi's fault. Do I detect PDS?

Here is Josh Hawley in action on Jan 6 -- this made headlines back in July during the J6 committee televised hearing:

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@wokkamile A frightened man, running for his life, but making sure he grabs that folder to take with him. Yeah...sure.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@Blue Republic A hard right-wing source. So I clicked on it's source, and do you know what I found? Another right-wing source.
You would never know that this bill they are talking about is actually rather sweeping. I bet you thought that this bill only had one feature - to let murderers go free.
Here's the facts:

Some on social media have dubbed it a so-called "purge law," likening it to the horror film "The Purge," in which criminal activity of all kinds is allowed for 12 hours. Others have claimed it will lead to "non-detainable offenses," a claim legislators and Gov. J.B. Pritzker have said is false.

Under the law, the state will allow judges to determine whether individuals accused of a wide range of crimes pose a risk to another individual or to the community at large, and then decide whether to hold them in pretrial detention or to release them on their own recognizance.

While some publications and social media posts, cited by Snopes, have argued that some crimes will become “non-detainable offenses,” including second-degree murder and other violent acts, the state says that judges will still be allowed to order pretrial detention in specific circumstances.

“Detention only shall be imposed when it is determined that the defendant poses a specific, real and present threat to a person, or has a high likelihood of willful flight,” according to the text of the bill.
...
According to the text of the bill, defendants can be denied pretrial release if a hearing finds that they meet any of the following criteria:

-The defendant is charged with a “forcible felony” that comes with a mandatory sentence of imprisonment without probation upon conviction, and that the release of that defendant would constitute a threat to any person or the community at large.

“Forcible felonies” include “first degree murder, second degree murder, predatory criminal sexual assault, robbery, burglary, residential burglary, aggravated arson, arson, kidnapping, aggravated battery resulting in great bodily harm or permanent disability or disfigurement and any other felony which involves the use or threat of physical force or violence against any individual.”

-If the defendant is charged with stalking or aggravated stalking, and their release would pose a threat to the community or to an individual.

-If the defendant is charged with domestic battery or aggravated domestic battery, and their release would pose a threat to the community or an individual.

-If the defendant is charged with a sex offense, and their release would pose a threat to the community or an individual.

-If the defendant has a high likelihood of “willful flight to avoid prosecution” and is charged with a forcible felony.

Unfortunately, based on this example, if you are going to try and prove that Dems are sort on crime by anecdote, I'm going to have to check every one of your sources because you aren't doing your due diligence.
And by due diligence, I mean for yourself (not for me).

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@gjohnsit

(above)

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@usefewersyllables

Doesn't matter which party is in power

But which *people* are in power matters a lot.

And in current American circumstances political parties are vehicles for obtaining and exercising significant power - there are few realistic channels (for those not in high corporate or Deep State positions) for doing so outside the party system. Although the (three-way) Oregon governor's race this time might make for an interesting exception.

Would it make no difference to those in NYC whether Curtis Sliwa was mayor instead of Eric Adams?

Or to Californians whether Gavin Newsom or Larry Elder (who would have succeeded Newsom if the 2021 recall effort had not failed) is governor?

“The most basic question is not what is best, but who shall decide what is best.”

― Thomas Sowell

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and RW tv -- I've seen the crime and illegals themes repeatedly mentioned on the one major social media platform I still monitor which is roughly 50-50 R-D. Usually these posts are of a purely anecdotal nature, no cites to studies or even the news crime blotter, so are conveniently impossible to verify or disprove. Much of it seems fake or a coordinated propaganda effort to get people focused overly on crime and to connect the problem to criminal-coddling liberal Ds.

Rs have mostly successfully used the soft-on-crime charge against Ds since at least 1966 when Reagan won here running against rioting in the inner cities (Watts, 1965) and long-haired beatnik protesters on campus. Nixon took notice in 1968 and ran against Ds mostly on crime in the cities. Then of course 1988 and Willie Horton. Even decades later, Ds still haven't been able to avoid being put on the defensive over crime, and still are ineffective at putting Rs on the defensive, even after J6 and even as 80% of Rs still staunchly defend above-the-law DJT.

The stats cited in the OP are all eye-opening and stark, but are little known to most voters. In part it's due to the failure of D pols to aggressively bring this message to voters, in part bc the MSM rarely talks about it, probably bc talking statistics doesn't bring in viewers.

Meanwhile, speaking of weak messaging by Ds, here's a good piece comparing the results from tough-on-crime prosecutor in Sacto vs the reform (and now ousted) D.A. in SF. https://48hills.org/2022/06/a-tough-on-crime-da-doesnt-translate-to-lowe...

Turns out not to be such good results for the tough guy approach wrt violent crime, while violent crime fell in Chesa Boudin's SF even as he was hampered, and politically damaged, by some misleading local media reports and by poor/incompetent/corrupt/lazy policing by the dubious SFPD. By most accounts Boudin failed to adequately tell voters of the positive results of his 2.5 yrs in office and then had to try to fend off a massively funded Recall effort led by a local RW hedge-fund billionaire. Boudin is now gone and won't run to get his job back this fall.

It's a set back for proponents of criminal justice reform in SF, but down here in the LA area the mostly R proponents of the Gascon Recall effort failed to gather enough signatures to qualify for the fall ballot, so there is at least that good news for those of us who believe in CJ reform and hate the way the CA law on recalling elected officials is being abused by well-funded and deceptive R efforts.

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Pricknick's picture

if you would attribute your graphs individually to what site originally posted them. I'm finding great differences in what you published and what I can verify using various sites.
Thanks in advance.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

First, second, third, fourth or hypothetical fifth party -- nobody has any realistic policy proposals to "reduce crime rates." All factions are far more interested in blame than anything else. Our civilization is unraveling in a multitude of ways -- with the concept of "hope" disappearing from just about everyone's life. The two major political parties and their media advocates have spent the last six years waging a symmetrical war of words and images attacking the fundamental legitimacy of each other with no limit. People have no reason to believe in much of anything, let alone The Law. What is left are tribal identities backed by "data" proving that Somebody Else is blank percent worse and to blame for the enveloping chaos.

Just yesterday afternoon here in West Hollywood, in my home I heard a short siren wail, followed by a loud speaker message: "Drop the weapon and step back!" just like in the movies. The amplified warning was repeated two more times. Evidently the incident ended peacefully without me having to lie down on the floor or to break out my shot gun. We will not vote our way out of this kind of life, no matter who is more wrong or more evil between our "choices." The war of all against all has started and electoral politics is one of its causes, and no part of any way to end it.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

You say cities and give stats for states. Again and again. Here are the cities murders per 100K.

St. Louis, MO (69.4)
Baltimore, MD (51.1)
New Orleans, LA (40.6)
Detroit, MI (39.7)
Cleveland, OH (33.7)
Las Vegas, NV (31.4)
Kansas City, MO (31.2)
Memphis, TN (27.1)
Newark, NJ (25.6)
Chicago, IL (24)
Cincinnati, OH (23.8)
Philadelphia, PA (20.2)
Milwaukee, WI (20.0)
Tulsa, OK (18.6)
Pittsburgh, PA (18.4)
Indianapolis, IN (17.7)
Louisville, KY (17.5)
Oakland, CA (17.1)
Washington D.C. (17.0)
Atlanta, GA (16.7)

Notice they are much higher? I didn't cherry pick, just took the first thing on google. How about race? Sex?

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2019/crime-in-the-u.s.-2019/tables/...

Crime is a big issue for voters, all voters, and Rs have a very distinct advantage with the public on the issue. Nothing to do with Reagan or some other ancient history before people were born. It's from 2020, and on. Defund the police, summer of riots. It's a loser at the polls.

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@ban nock
I'll have to get back with you later today. But I'll recheck my data.

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@gjohnsit
No time at work and I'm exhausted when I get home. I haven't forgotten about replying here.

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@ban nock and you are right about the cities. So I edited out the two times in this essay that I mentioned cities.
Interestingly the two top cities for crime with Republican mayors are both in California (Stockton and San Bernandino).

As for the location of the most crime-ridden cities Chicago is only #17, L.A is #32, and S.F. is #37. But you never hear about Memphis, K.C., Indianapolis, and Nashville (#4, 5, 10, 14).

My numbers for states remains solid. The most violent states are overwhelmingly red states.

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after moving to SF: I was offered minimum wage (for a job that paid 4 times that in Illinois) and "don't worry, we don't ask for green cards."
Click.
It's just one white boy's perception, but the real difference between Republicans and Democrats on immigration is that Republicans demonize immigrants, Democrats exploit them.

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On to Biden since 1973

@doh1304

Now that campaign season is open, I've had a rush of (otherwise good) cardboard informing
me of the evils of candidate X,Y,& Z. Nothing positive about the purported opponent.
Just: this candidate is bad. Don't vote for them.

We have devolved into a state of total 'blame the other' without suggesting what is
actually better about any of them. Shikes, if that is all political dark money buys
anymore - negative campaign ads - it will turn off voters. Perhaps that's the plan?

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Shahryar's picture

@QMS

essentially "The Democrats are under siege nationally and blah blah blah..We'll be knocking on doors this Saturday. Can we count on you to help?" to which I replied "no". Then I got another one that asked when would be a good time for me to do such a thing and I said "I'm not a Democrat. I'm a non-affiliated voter".

So they have outdated lists, I guess.

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usefewersyllables's picture

@Shahryar

I've been trying to get off the dem lists since the 2016 debacle, and it is simply not possible. If you ever made the mistake of donating to a dem, as I did for many years, you go into a special category of undeletable (Hey! A gold-plated rube!), and you'll continue to get emails and texts and mailings and phone calls and badgerings for the rest of your natural life. You can write, you can call, you can have your lawyer write and call- doesn't matter.

At least since our house burned and we had to move, I've been immune to snailmail- but I'll guarantee that they'll get that address info from *somewhere* by the next cycle. I'm sure as hell never going to give it to them.

I get donation begs from every campaign in every state of the union, seems like. I hate the dem party apparatus with the hot fury of 1000 suns at this point...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

I changed my registration. Thirteen years later I got a mailer from the Democratic Party inviting me as a "Democratic leader" to answer a page of bullet point questions - and write a check.
Rrrrrrrip!!!

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On to Biden since 1973

and get rid of campaign contributions and use a free and fair access to candidates for equal media and I might start giving a shit about elections.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

thanatokephaloides's picture

If you spend any time on right-wing web sites or watching right-wing TV you'll

.... suffer serious deteriorations in your physical and mental health as your world-view retreats ever further from objective reality! Bad

Don't do it!!

The previous has been a Public Service Announcement.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

#4.1.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.1 to be coerced into entering a plea bargain.
It is cruel and unusual punishment to be imprisoned without a bail hearing.
While I agree some J6ers were attempting government overthrow, others were just there to show support for Trump. All of them have a right to seek bail.
They are not necessarily criminals for supporting Trump.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp
a bail. And yet it happens all of the time, as you may well know.
Prosecutors from the state gang up with the untouchable cops.
They get their plea bargains before court hearings so as to
minimize the over-burdened case load.
The accused do not normally have the means to hire qualified
counsel, again, as you well know. So they cop a plea. It is the
way the system functions. Not justice, so much as, streamlining.

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@QMS While there is universal belief those attorneys are not top notch, it is typically required that anyone getting on the list to represent the indigent have a certain number of hours of continuing legal education in criminal defense courses. Here, we are also required to be at the jail for the initial client interview 48 hours of being notified we have been appointed.
A very simple solution to cash bail is to require the defendant to wear an ankle bracelet so that their whereabouts can be monitored to assure they will appear in court. It is minimal invasion of privacy. It would also afford protection to crime victims, or any witness that might be a target for retaliation. It would not discriminate against the poor. Reporting to the sheriff's office on a weekly schedule would also be a minimal requirement, but would help law enforcement to target persons they have good reason to believe will fail to appear when summoned.
If a person is prohibited from making bond, the state should have no excuse allowed for not giving the inmate a speedy trial.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

bargaining can be coercive, probably is most of the time. But if illegal, it sure seems there is a lot of illegal activity occurring across the land by prosecutors, and it's being done with total impunity.

As for others in the mob merely there to support T but arrested, I should think the prosecutors -- DOJ and Garland -- already have sufficient numbers in custody with clear evidence supporting their illegal/violent conduct and wouldn't find it necessary to further overburden the system with frivolous actions against more benign defendants nor would they want to risk a major political backlash for holding those truly innocent (i.e. those who didn't unlawfully enter the Capitol bldg). So I remain skeptical that there are many left in custody who are truly innocent.

Meanwhile, maybe DJT could redirect some of that $500m he and his backers have raised since the 2020 election to help get good lawyers for some of his detained supporters.

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