Ukraine Situation Shifting
In wars you can take it for granted that much of the information you are getting is at best nuanced. Information and propaganda is considered one more tool to be used.
When Ukraine first began using it's Himars there were many videos online of Russian ammunition warehouses and supply dumps blowing up and exploding. Of course they could be anything at all. Something exploding on a video.
With time and multiple sources it's possible to make some assumptions.
What we do know is that things have quieted way down. Russia has reduced it's attacks on Ukraine. The first targets were ammo and also command and control. Now Ukraine is targeting roads, bridges, and infrastructure. Russia moved much of it's ammunition storage far back from the front lines close to it's border but that seems to have had little effect on the himar's accuracy.
As Russia has logistical problems supplying it's artillery and infantry, Ukraine gets better at it. The himars are able to operate beyond the reach of Russian artillery.
Ukraine has warned its citizens in Kherson to evacuate if possible as they are going to attempt to retake the city. Russia has done more to unite the different factions in Ukraine than just about anything else.
Of course now one starts to hear talk of peace from Russia, yet polling shows 90% of Ukraines want a return of all lost territory before any talks. For three years the Ukraine President tried to call Putin. Putin wouldn't take the call. Putin took parts of two provinces already last decade, now they tried to take the entire country, it's probably best if Russia negotiates after Ukraine has a few thousand Russian POWs and when the front lines are at the Russian border. I've seen places where hydrophobia runs through the dog population, there's no negotiating.
Russia has killed a lot of people. Putting the same value on all life you would have to count Russian soldiers as well as Ukraine soldiers and Ukraine civilians. Neither side gives casualty figures that can be assumed legit but most observers count in the tens of thousands with millions displaced and the world economy thrown into a tizzy.
Putin has already lost. Ukraine didn't fall in three days and he lost vast numbers of infantry and tanks. Nato, Europe, and the big industrial democracies of east asia have been united like never before. Putin still figures he has won as he has taken the industrial heartland of Ukraine and his popularity in Russia is high. It looks highly possible that Russia could lose Crimea and following that much of what they took in the east. When Putin begins to feel like he lost is when things will look bleak.
Frankly I'd hoped that Putin would have a technical failure of his aircraft on the return from Iran. I doubt his generals have the stomach for this war.
Comments
There seems to be a bit of a different opinion on the situation.
OOPS!
You are completely right
You have given zero backup for the veracity of ANY of those statements in this diary. It appears that you are just dragging these talking points directly from DKos.
C99% has higher standards which you should respect...
12 himars on the ground, functioning, as of 7/22 ??
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
YURI WAR BRIEFING - July 22, 2022
American Wunderwaffe Thinking:
HIMARS, M777, ATACMS. Conclusion
Heh, the Hehmars
A handful, but they ARE all caps. Reminiscent of the Nebelwerfer, the screaming mimi, and an old Russian folk Tune -
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Russian Ops in Ukraine (July 21, 2022) -
Not a military analyst I see...
Two of the largest armies are facing off. Hundreds of thousands of troops. Thousands of pieces of armor/artillery on both sides. A dozen artillery pieces are a game changer? All it does it make the lazy back lines of the Russian forces disperse. Himars is now a pricey artillery piece that is just as effective as the millions of artillery rounds the Russian produce.
Meanwhile, in the real world, Germany and the EU in general are having massive economic problems due to restricted fuel from sanctions.
Ted Cruz is happy because Texas oil/natural gas companies are making billions. His donations are through the roof. America/EU people...not so happy. Putin? Smiling like crazy as he makes tons of money with the high fuel prices.
US mercenary: Relentless Russian bombings
“The closest thing I’ve ever seen to hell."
Staged or Real?
You decide. Seems genuine enough to me...
I've watched
quite a number of Patrick Lancaster's video reports, all from the frontline, and I mean artillery shelling in the background on camera and bullets whinging past frontline.
He and his cameraman are courageous beyond belief. His on the spot interviews are as credible as they come.
Some of the stories he elicits from these people are so heartbreaking they couldn't possibly be made up.
A Pulitzer award is sorely needed here, and not for some talking head sitting in a studio half a world away.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
public service announcement
Consider the source. I would suggest you consider the reality of the OP. Here is an example from a prior post:
OK, So according to OP The official beginning of summer is July 4.
Did y'all know that? The official beginning! He has spoken!
How many of you would agree with the premise that the OFFICIAL start of summer is July 4? I doubt I have ever heard anyone assert that the official beginning of summer is July 4. And I am an old man.
From a reality based factual standpoint there are two primary widely accepted official starts of summer, and one widely held populist view. Officially there are Astronomical summer, and Climatological summer.
Astronomical summer runs from the Solstice in late June to the Equinox in the fall, late September. My sense is that for many, for most, the official start of summer is June 21 or so, whatever date the solstice is that year. Astro summer is based on the position of earth on its axis relative to the sun.
Perhaps less widely accepted and used, but fairly common still, is Climatological summer. It is based on the climate. Climatological summer is June, July and August (in N. hemisphere). Many people consider this summer. It is based on the temperatures.
A third very widely held common belief about the beginning of summer which is not official but very popular, maybe most popular amongst the less scientifically inclined, is that summer starts on Memorial Day. The first 3 day weekend of the summer season. Sure it is a few days before Clima summer starts, but close enough. It heralds it in.
I think the most widely held concept of summer, relating to holidays is that summer runs from Memorial Day to Labor Day. From a holiday standpoint summer is framed by those two big 3 day holiday weekends. Often fairly close to when school is out. I have lived on both coasts and in Texas (which is "a whole 'nother country" if you missed the ads in the 80's) and this is one of the most widely held beliefs regarding summer. Unofficially, it begins on Memorial Day weekend. See the beaches.
Right in THE MIDDLE of summer is the other big 3 day holiday of summer, the Fourth of July. Except in OP's parallel universe where reality and the facts don't matter, the Fourth of July is the OFFICIAL BEGINNING OF SUMMER.
I suspect if we asked a million Americans if the Fourth of July was the beginning, middle, or end holiday of summer, they would virtually all say the middle holiday of summer. Not the beginning.
I point this out so folks consider the source if or when reading anything OP writes. It does not seem to be strongly fact and reality based IMHO. The Fourth of July is not the official beginning of summer. The OP is a gaslighter or severely uninformed, and trying to severely uninform me. About things as trivial as when summer begins. Sure I'll believe him on Ukraine when he doesn't know the seasons.
We don't let people put their fingers in our food for the dangers that poses. Putting sh!t in people's heads has the potential to do far more damage than fingers in food would do. Since the OP insists on doing so, I just want to remind folks how reality based OP is regarding the smallest simplest of things, like the official beginning of summer, and would come here to BS us about that, pretending to know what they are talking about authoritatively.
sorry it had to be this way...
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
dysto,
if I had 9 bots here, you'd have gotten 10 thumbs up.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Erm…. isn’t Memorial Day the official start
of summer outside the stuff you said? Why yes I’m pretty sure that it is. Just goes to show how wrong this poster usually is. Shitlibs are reporting that Russia is using 85% of its military in Ukraine and has used up most of their weapons too. Like I said the propaganda is very good and it’s why many people think that Russia is losing the fight. Oh and they are just grabbing people off the streets and sending them to Ukraine. Actually that’s what Ukraine is doing because so much of the regular military has been wiped out. Men in bars or stores are detained and sent to military recruiting places as are women of a certain age.
But what will be really funny is that Russia won’t go on to conquer all of Europe as shitlibs are predicting. They might have to clean up a few border countries depending on if NATO starts arming them. Putin stated the goals for what they are going to accomplish. De-militarization and
de-Nazification of Ukraine. Everything else they are accused of doing is just made up garbage to get the shitlibs on board with war and extremely high military budgets whilst this country goes down the crapper. And more people end up living on the streets.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Poor Choice of example
4 th of July is considered widely by those of us who live in the Pacific Northwest to be the official start of summer based on weather patterns. This is when it stops raining and actually gets warm, consistently, since they have been keeping track of such things. We tend to be as much a part of our environment as the elk currently snacking on my rose bush. We seem to have lots people who try to tell us we have to do this or that based on their superior knowledge of everything. They like to tell us how and what to think. How we should do this or that. That they know everything and are superior. The majority of those folks don’t live here, know nothing about the place, and would not know a real forest if they were standing in it. Most of what they are saying would be detrimental to our environmental health and we all know it.
We celebrate the first day of summer on the 4 th of July. Even the local TV stations announce it on the news. I can guess just by that line about the 4th the author is a northwesterner and you are not. Reality is people see things differently everywhere. In the future maybe before you offend whole regions by referring to them as delusional, you might want to consider not everyone lives and thinks as you do. When someone gleefully wishes you happy spring in late May it means they live in Alaska, break up is running a bit late and the iced over rivers are finally flowing. Where we all are we live with the rhythm nature it decides when the seasons start, not the stars, and not you.
@pswaterspirit I wonder what they do
I wonder what they do in the southern hemisphere.
I notice the 4th because it seems everyone starts taking vacations about then, and we get the horrible scorching heat waves. By labor day the campgrounds again become available, and there are fewer on the hiking trails. For me labor day is the end of hot days at the beach and the beginning of school.
The unfair part is that the first official by the calendar days of summer, the solstice, is when days begin to get shorter. I water and it's not very light at 5.
I did read part of the comment about me saying the fourth was the beginning of summer. I mostly don't read those kinds of things so it mostly flew by me. Takes all types.
then say IN THE PNW
IF the OP had said "IN THE PNW" it would be completely different wouldn't it? It would not have meant what it did, had the whole truth been told. This is not a PNW board, it is national and even international. The PNW can call whatever they want summer, which does not make it official to the rest of us. Even if you heard it on the news. It is incredibly egocentric to think others outside that very small area would understand or agree with the statement that July 4 is the official beginning of summer. It would be the wrong answer on any test ever given. How could folks NOT question the sanity of it? Does the PNW not know that is not how others see it?
When you buy a calendar in the PNW does it say 'first day of summer' on July 4? Or does it say that on June 21 or so on the solstice? When you get a Farmers Almanac in the PNW does it not list climatological summer as June July and August? Or astronomical summer as beginning on the solstice? When you go to school in the PNW is it taught in that the official start of summer is July 4, and not the solstice? The PNW summer is not THE OFFICIAL one on a national level (what the c99 audience largely is).
My examples of 'official' summers are widely accepted as such in countless sources no matter where one is in America, or the world for that matter. It seemed like someone might have needed examples of what real official beginnings of summer look like. They have been determined by the scientific governing bodies that attend to such matters. The PNW version of official summer starting July 4 is not recognized officially, or by 9/10 Americans is my guess, much less further afield. What maybe 5% of the land area and population of America has ever heard of this? Ten percent tops? So it is not appropriate since not factually correct outside of a strictly PNW audience, to tout the PNW official beginning of summer as THE official beginning of summer. Y'all should know it is your thing, and most do not see understand it like that. It should be cited as what it is, a PNW thing. Then no one will think y'all are smokin' too many pine needles. To not say so is deceitful because it is not the whole truth. It is half the truth. It is not trying to communicate all the facts of the matter. As such it lacks purity of intent. It is just more of the same trying to stir shat.
It is egocentric, arrogant, authoritarian pontificating to present the PNW start of summer as THE OFFICIAL start of summer to a non PNW audience. The PNW is not the center of the universe. Official well-accepted well-defined terms are relevant *and understandable* no matter where you live, and important if one wants to actually convey facts and truths. That is real cute the PNW made up the dates for their own seasons but to think, speak or act like that makes it official for everyone everywhere else is past ridiculous moving into assinine. It is to disregard what summer is to MOST others, half the nation has felt like they have been in summer since May. All except one tiny area consider July 4 the middle holiday of summer. And people in that tiny area shout at the others that theirs is the official beginning of summer. What do you expect them to think? Billions of calendars say otherwise, and you expect no one should think WTF?
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein
I didn't know
that cnn and msnbc had a reporter working here.
Not a good look.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
most of what I see in your essay is factually wrong
this is not the first time
Do you actually think you have the ability to educate us in the correct interpretation
of the propaganda used to support your views?
The ability to assess conflicting reports presumes critical thought and reasoning
abilities. Not parroting whatever the warmongers want you to believe.
Here's something you won't find in your sources: war is bad, peace is good.
Try to assimilate these facts.
question everything
You better hope that Ukraine
Doesn't take back Crimea. Because the Russian government will fall and a military coup will take over if that happens.
At that point nuclear weapons are on the table.
But then saying Putin has lost is rediculous.
The only reason Ukraine hasn't already lost is because tens of billions in gifts from the west
@gjohnsit
Putin lost.
He lost whatever legitimacy he had with governments of the world, including China. Oh they'll buy oil from him, but he's never to be trusted again. And China isn't selling him arms.
Putin lost the most casualties in a Russian conflict since WW2, tens of thousands, maybe 30, maybe 50, I'll bet they don't even know, or care.
Putin has lost most of his heavy arms, tanks, etc. His army is now the laughing stock of the world, old technology, things fall apart and don't work, looks like everything is 50 years old. They don't even have anything close to air superiority, against Ukraine on their border no less.
Nato which had been a very loose alliance is now united with Sweden and Norway to join, and Ukraine and Georgia wana bees. I'll bet all the Stans are way nervous.
Economically, I'd think Russia is in for a bad time. Europe is very dependent on his petro, but they will do everything to break loose as soon as they can. Knowing a mad man controls their gas is scary.
Russia today is begging for safe passage of it's soldiers out of Kherson. They are collapsing in the south. Bridges are bombed, they've no way out and no way to get supplies in.
Putin is to losing.
I noticed that you never bother to back up your claims
And how did he do that? By starting an unprovoked war, right?
You mean like Saudi Arabia did with Yemen? Like how the U.S. has done with Iraq, Libya, Syria, etc?
I'm not saying this for whataboutism. I'm saying this because to be consistent, you have to admit that the U.S. has also lost legitimacy.
Actually China is doing a Hell of a lot more than that with Russia. Including conducting war games with them, and pushing for a competing economic BRICS system.
So if they don't know, how do you know?
The Stans are way nervous of what? If Russia is a laughing stock then they wouldn't be scared of Russia. The same goes for Sweden and Finland (it's Finland. Norway has been part of NATO for decades). Why would they be scared of a laughing stock?
Yeh, there's something called physics that you can't just ignore. Europe won't be able to ignore it either.
Ah yes. The mad man Hitler. Funny how everyone political enemy is both Hitler and a madman. And it's always Munich in 1938.
I just did a search and Ukraine has been declaring victory at Kherson since july 3rd.
I'm still buffaloed by one thing
On this thread and elsewhere, there is an ongoing debate over source material and ultimately the objective reality of who is winning the war between Russia and Ukraine. In both sports and war, the only pertinent question is not Who is winning?
What matters is Who won?
In the mean time, I really do not understand the energy and anxiety that animates this utterly irrelevant "debate." I have observed that almost every time this becomes a topic of internet contention -- here and elsewhere -- it is the folks who say that Ukraine is winning who are pushing the discussion.
This strikes me as very weird. If Ukraine is going to force the Russians out of all the territory of Ukraine, including Crimea, what does it matter whether random internet posters believe it is going to happen or not? It is exactly like Yankee fans knowing that they will wax the Red Sox. It makes them feel good to shout that truth out in front of Boston fans. But it is really up to Aaron Judge and company to win the fricken ball game.
On the other hand, if the goal is to persuade American citizens to support the effort to assist the Ukrainians, saying that they are winning -- whether true or false -- cuts against that goal.
Whatever.
I'll quote the greatest Geo-Political Strategist of all time, Yogi Berra. "It ain't over until it's over."
.
Turning briefly to the actual dispute about who is winning the war. The OP candidly refers to it as a set of assumptions. Those assumptions have been greeted by pretty much a dog pile of disagreement about the objective reality asserted.
Here is my response:
.
.
Note the folksy subject and verb disagreement, making me more credible? I love the internet.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
@fire with fire well we can tell who
well we can tell who will win by who is winning, or at least it's a good indication.
Support for Ukraine is not so much a popularity contest anyway, though most of America seems to support. It's about our President, congress, and our allies.
What we can determine is what has happened. Most people are ok with agreeing on a broad set of facts. It's when people seek to make their own reality that it gets messed up, just like Trump claiming he won the election, or vaccine denialism. Caucus 99 often seems like I've wandered into an alternate reality complete with CT videos and alternate histories. Except for extreme right wingers, I've yet to hear similar.
Putin has a history, and what he has said and what he has done is a matter of public record. Many on here seem to want to ignore it, why I've no idea. Right winger authoritarians is my guess. How people go from supporting Bernie Sanders to Putin is beyond my ken.
Up to your usual standards
.
Thanks for replying.
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
It is a sad and sorrowful situation...
that c99 doesn't live up to your patriotic ideals. If only we all marched in lockstep, the world would be such a better place, especially for our esteemed politicians who only have our best interests at heart. Right?
How about a c99 diktat that all members MUST think exactly like user ban nock because, of course, you have all the best answers that the AP wire service can supply.
How very un-American of us.
Edit to add: I'm really growing weary of you slamming this site.
This is a reply I got on reddit
There is such a huge propaganda push to, not so much support Ukraine, but to oppose Russia. It sets off alarm bells to me. The last time the pro-war crowd was this loud we invaded Iraq.
@gjohnsit I'm not aware of
I'm not aware of any pro Russia leftists, or none I've read about anyway, only the right wing, and pretty far right at that. I run across Trump supporters in other places and at first they were pro Putin but after the first week or so, no more. I don't watch TV but I don't know what Tucker Carlson thinks, nor do I much care. Is there any particular group of US lefties that support Russia's invasion?
understanding Russia's imperatives,
understanding what the US did to push Russia into their military operation, is not pro Putin. It is an understanding of why this is happening, and who caused it.
I hate war. I am a peacemonger. But I understand self defense, and I would expect the USA to take similar action in our defense in similar circumstances.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I can't think of anything that Putin has done that the Left
would approve of, with the lone exception of challenging American hegemony.
He's almost, but not quite, as much of a warhawk as the U.S. is. He's no socialist that I am aware of. Nor is he a friend of liberty.
So the world would be better off without him...except for his challenging American hegemony.
American hegemony is poison, for the environment, for freedom, for peace, and it must be stopped.
It's just too bad the guy challenging it is Putin.
Well, challenging
US or US/Nato hegemony is quite a lot, no? It's like saying, Sure, other than finding a cure for cancer, what else has he done?
Putin -- certainly no saint, and just as certainly no Hitler or anything remotely such. Most effective leader on the world stage in the past 20 yrs. Or am I forgetting someone? Who do you think has been better? Remember, he went into UKR only as a last resort, when it was obvious that further discussions w the US/Nato/UKR would be futile and as there were clear signs that UKR was about to launch an offensive into the Donbas. Putin also sought an alliance w the US during Obama. But the US public wasn't told about it, thanks to our MSM, and Obama turned him down.
As for Chechnya, you'll have to give me those details. Did he make mistakes? Undoubtedly, esp as he was in the early stages of his presidency. But the terrorist situation there seems to have greatly quieted down, which is a plus. But it's not a subject I'm greatly familiar with.
Influential
I think of it more like Stalin challenged Hitler. Putin didn't set out to challenge American hegemony. He had the choice of either challenging it or leaving behind no legacy.
Putin, considering everything arrayed against him, has been extremely competent. Far more competent than any western leader in my lifetime. And unlike every western leader in my lifetime, Putin actually cares about the fate of Russia. (that's not to say that he isn't brutal in his methods. Only that I consider every American president in the last 45 years to be traitors)
But I would rank one modern leader above Putin for sheer influence - Hugo Chavez.
Chavez changed an entire region.
There was a lot of war crimes committed in Chechnya.
But even before that I believe that Putin was behind the Moscow apartment bombings. And then there was the mishandling of the terrorist hostage crisis, such as the Moscow theater and the Belsan school.
Dude….
You are the one who has continued to ignore what Putin said for why he started the military operation. I have posted a link to his speech which you ignore and I posted 2 of his goals again here. Now who is making up his own reality. CB has also posted some great stuff, but apparently his comments are too long for you to read so you stay misinformed about what is happening in Ukraine. But sure pretend that it’s everyone but you who is stupid on this site.
Every time you have posted about Ukraine here the comments point out how misinformed YOU are, not us. And if it bothers you so much then why stay here just to insult those you disagree with? Like you did in the comment I’m replying to.
This conflict could have easily been avoided, but it’s been the goal to own Russia since the end of WW2. When the USSR broke up Clinton had the chance to turn to peace. Instead he and those who followed him have expanded NATO so it could threaten Russia. Russia decided that letting Ukraine join was a direct threat to their country. Just like putting nukes in Cuba was a threat to us. If you can’t see that then you are being willfully blind. Again think about Russia overthrowing Mexico’s president and filling the country with Russian weapons that could hit Washington in 5 minutes. You think we’d tolerate that? Be honest.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
@snoopydawg I've read
I've read translations of Putin's off the cuff hours long monologue. He's an imperialist, and wants all of Ukraine, and also slightly crazy. To tell you the truth I don't much read long comments that seem antagonistic or link to dubious sources. I assume you write for others to read, not me.
It is very obvious
you don't read very deeply.
Remain forever ignorant, ban nock. Not a problem for me. Might be for you, unless you have friends in high places, and your bills guaranteed paid.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
No
I write for you. Why would I write for someone else? I’m not responsible for you having the attention span of a gnat and can’t read long comments. But would you read them if they just post a link? Probably not because only your AP propaganda source is true for you. Only you can decide to read comments and see if you learn something or not. But not reading them is what is keeping you so ignorant of the facts and believing that the propaganda you are reading is true. Just why can’t you read comments longer than your attention span? Just what is your point then to keep posting your propaganda here? Why not go somewhere where people will think you are a genius for the crap you post here? This I do not get. You get owned every time you post here but keep doing it and if you keep doing it you’ll continue to show that you have swallowed the government’s propaganda hook, line and sinker. It’s people like you that are their target audience.
Time will tell if what you think Russia is going to do happens or not. I’m not holding out for a mea culpa from you if you are proven wrong.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Not being 'over'...
The fact that the conflict is not over itself is relevant because people acting in our name are largely responsible for the fact that it *isn't*.
There's also the matter that, although we are not (yet) experiencing the business end of kinetic war, ordinary Americans, Europeans and others are, in fact, losing. Losing economically, losing in terms of credibility, military capability (that there might actually be some legitimate need for elsewhere) degraded, the list goes on.
Maybe most importantly, losing the opportunity to have peaceful and productive relations with people and countries that is being denied us by these serially ginned-up conflicts.
So, as this crap is being carried out in our name, we have some responsibility not only to the innocent people being slaughtered and displaced on the ground but to OURSELVES to voice some opposition to the lies and madness and rein in the warmongers.
Note that the propaganda machine is trying, and not without effect, to induce the sheeple to lump skepticism about vax/Covid policy, election integrity and opposition to forever war in Ukraine together representing a deranged existential threat that likely needs to be expunged violently.
Note, too, that the people who got this conflict going - through the Maidan coup and subsequent anti-Russian actions - are literally the same people who brought you Russiagate, the failed impeachment attempts against Trump, and the current congressional J-6 show trial.
https://www.revolver.news/2020/09/meet-norm-eisen-legal-hatchet-man-and-...
Would it be cynical to believe that possibly they are not going to all that trouble just because they have your best interests at heart and want to make the world a better place?
@Blue Republic Not sure if you
Not sure if you realize it but Russia invaded Ukraine.
The US engineered the Ukrainian coup in 2014
"FUCK the EU!" - Victoria Nuland
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSxaa-67yGM]
I have no disagreement with anything you said except
.
for one detail.
This war is bullshit coming and going. It is an intentional disaster for the US and its alleged allies who are simultaneously bankrupting ourselves while doing nothing but forcing hell on earth to the truly cursed people of Ukraine.
Where we may be in disagreement is whether the interim battle reports have any significance whatsoever. The American and NATO side does not care what happens to Ukraine and they will continue with this suicidal policy no matter how the battles go. According to Ban Nock and his sources, Ukraine will fight until it kicks Russia out of every square foot of turf that used to be in Ukraine. That is not going to happen any time soon. My money is on never. So this economic suicidal sanctions regime will never end, until we give up.
A recipe for disaster for the entire planet.
My post was a specific response to the discussion provoked by Ban Nock who continues to argue for accounts of Ukrainian success -- poorly documented at best and just made up out of bile and bullshit for the most part. Rather than take the bait, and argue that Russia is "winning" I condemn American policy as both insane and motivated by other considerations than our government proclaims.
I believe that this voice and all similar voices on the net are totally disingenuous. Their goal is to paint the dispute as a question of Russia's behavior -- as Ban Nock put it, it is up to "western liberal democracies" to "allow" other countries to do only what "we" deem appropriate. A fantasy of infinite power is the subtext of every word this character posts on this board. The stubborn refusal to join issue directly on anything is the tell that we are not facing somebody who really wants to persuade anybody of anything.
The authors of the propaganda never discuss the feasibility of "weakening" Russia. Nor do they discuss the point of weakening Russia other than asserting that Putin has a mental illness that makes him want to conquer the whole world -- or some such blue sky fantasy.
Finally, the war in Ukraine itself should be called American Cowardice. Ban Nock and their allies shamelessly argue that Russia is just like Nazi Germany, bent on global domination. But of course we can't get involved directly. At least not yet. No, we are only supporting Ukraine for long term tactical reasons. Yes, we will fight Hitler II to the last Ukrainian.
They can't have it both ways unless we let them have it both ways. Russia cannot be an existential threat but not such a threat as to oblige us to get our own ass in the cross hairs of this hopelessly inept Russian military that is losing this fight they started.
The contradictory bullshit is more clever than it looks. It gets people to explain why Russia will win this war. Mission accomplished for the propagandist.
Best response to the Ban Nock claims -- who cares?
I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.
comment deleted
A history lesson for you.
Who started this conflict in 2014? It was the US staging a coup in Kiev. From your post at this site, it is painfully obvious that you do not have a fucking clue of how the conflict in Ukraine started. All you can do is parrot the DKos "Putin bad", "Russia bad" fucking bullshit!
Here, educate yourself. This MSM source should be acceptable for you:
Who exacerbated this conflict in Ukraine in February 2022?
DKos was wrong about Afghanistan, wrong about Iraq, wrong about The Arab Spring, wrong about Libya, wrong about Syria, wrong about China, wrong about Russia-gate, wrong about Ukraine and now wrong about Russia.
I suggest you don't drag this unverified DKos shit into C99% unless you can back up your data with at least a minimum of cites.
(Of course, I don't expect you to read any of this. After all, it will take more than 1 1/2 minutes.)
@CB I'd recommend you stop
I'd recommend you stop reading DK, and your comments are tldr. Nothing is proven to me by anger and cursing nor using wild sources.
here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Ukrainian_War
You need to educate yourself
For FUCK sake... the sources I used were MSM:
The Guardian https://www.newspapersland.com/united-kingdom/#top-newspapers
and reports from the OSCE. The OSCE is an independent source which works with the US feds:
So what's your FUCKING excuse for not reading these reports now?
Everyone knows WIKI is useless for any information the runs contrary to the establishment.
Swearing? You ain't seen nothing yet. Here's what a young Ukrainian women thinks of the Zelensky regime in Ukraine who are skimming untold millions from the tens of billions the US taxpayers have sent while their ordinary soldiers are coming home with no arms or no legs or in a body bag.
Have a good day!
His sources
as they generally are (when they don't involve China) are fine.
Wikipedia should be read and cited with caution, it is systematically edited to slant to pro-narrative viewpoints on controversial topics.
For instance, as many have pointed out to you, the Euromaidan coup of 2014 - which the current conflict stems from - was substantially engineered by US intelligence under the Obama Administration. Yet the Wiki discussion of Euromaidan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan
only gives a single passing mention to accusation of foreign involvement - when the neo-libs were involved up to their eyeball.
It also states as completely factual that all the demonstrators that were shot were shot by police forces and fails to mention the many accounts of at least some having been killed by mercenary forces of the anti-government side.
Ironic, but not unexpected that Victoria Nuland and others on the Obama team who were instrumental in implementing a real violent, white-supremacist insurrection against a democratically elected government now want to arrest Trump - accusing him and his (overwhelmingly peaceful) supporters of insurrection over a single mostly peaceful demonstration... What violence did occur on J6 being mostly provoked by police violence and provocateurs.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wetleAB1XmY]
@Blue Republic I'm sorry but I'll
I'm sorry but I'll stick with Wiki. Telling me of CIA plots is a big turn off. I don't do CT.
Actually you do believe in CT
You are just not aware of it. The mainstream media has long been captured by the defense industry and every big business and its why only 9 men own all mainstream media sources including the AP. CT/propaganda is there any difference? There’s none in my mind.
If you want a good rundown on how Russia is doing in Ukraine here’s an excellent essay on it. But since you have already dismissed the author I doubt you will even open it.
https://thesaker.is/five-months-into-the-special-military-operation-a-su...
Hope that isn’t too long for your attention span?
Guess I forgot. You already know everything about how Ukraine is going to kick Russia out of Ukraine. Boy are you in for a surprise.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
US HIMARS vs. Russia’s Tornado-S
An excellent discussion as to the futility of US supplied HIMARS in the Ukraine conflict. Russia has a superior system in much greater quantities.
Y'know, for a while there, I
thought Kiev was a Russian city. Then I went back and looked at history and realized my mistake. I wish the RF and what's left of Ukraine would sit down at the (oh, the horror) peace table. Won't happen as too many international craporate interests like the MICC here are cleaning up $$$$$$$$$$$. There are no winners in this one. Why do I think that? I'm a lifelong peacenik, and then there is the matter of Chernobyl. Neither Russia nor Ukraine had any military reason to send young folks into that radioactive hellhole. Neither gained any advantage. A lot of victims suffering from fatal doses of radiation poisoning were bused out of that zone, and the rest cleared out. You all familiar with radiation poisoning? It's a nasty form of death, worse than dying from bullets or shrapnel. I'm over the screaming bought media here over this conflict. It's worse than Iraq cos the media is louder and more hysterical. Anywho, interesting discussion. FWIW.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Understanding why Minsk II failed is key
to understanding the Ukraine conflict.
The US understood that the Donetsk and Luhansk Oblasts were overwhelmingly Russian speakers (as was Crimea) so they ensured that the Minsk agreements would not be honoured by the federal government in Kiev. In fact, the Ukrainian government passed a law outlawing the Russian language - including in all schools.
That's not exactly true
The Donbass was a majority Russian speaking region, but it wasn't overwhelming. It was more in the area of 60% Russian. Crimea, OTOH, was well over 80% Russian speaking.
That's not totally accurate either. The law mandated Ukrainian language, in a way similar to how some U.S. states mandate the English language, but it didn't outlaw Russian. However, considering that Ukraine had 30% Russian speakers, this was not a wise move.
It sort of depends
The birthplace of Russia is the Kievan Rus in the 9th Century.
However, the Kievan Rus was completely destroyed by the Mongols in the 13th Century. At which point the Russian identity switch to Novgorad, and then eventually to Moscow and Leningrad.
The weapons industry (aka merchants of death) disagrees.
Alexander Nevsky paid the Mongols off
to not destroy Novgorod. He had enough troubles with the Teutonic Knights in the West, at least until he kicked their butts in 1242, and didn't need any more enemies.
So Novgorod survived, under very nominal Mongol supervision, and eventually budded off a trading post at Moscow, which gradually became bigger and more important than its parent city.
As for Kiev...it got rebuilt, eventually, but not until the Muscovites were able to remove the "Mongol Yoke".
There is no justice. There can be no peace.