Organic Gardening - Learning Resources and Soil Composition
Hello everyone, I'm honored to be writing this instance of the Tuesday Open Thread! How's the gardening going? And remember, this is an Open Thread, so comment about whatever, gardening or not!
We've all got interesting and different stories about how we started with gardening. I thought I've give a tiny recital of mine, and then move on to some organic gardening resources that really helped me get started (it was long enough ago that they are all books, some now have websites), and then a little section about soil composition.
As I may have mentioned before, I started growing vegetables after living for a time in Britain. I was already 'environmentally' inclined when I moved overseas as a young adult, and living in Britain during one of the flourishings of the environmental movement and during the beginnings and middle of the BSE fiasco (mad cow disease) really pushed me towards growing my own food. When I got back to the USA, I grew vegetables in pots on the balcony of my apartment in Bryn Mawr, PA. I even grew corn! And it was delicious, those 6 ears of corn I got!
Back in WA state, I started growing vegetables in large amounts, in an actual field. I got married after a few years of working alone, and my husband and I ran a CSA (Community Sponsored Agriculture) for many years. We are now 'retired' in that we are not growing for market anymore, just for ourselves.
Everything we grow, whether it's the lawn, the pasture, the roses, the johnny jump-ups, the herbs, the vegetables, the fruit, the chickens' eggs, the goats, the berries, and the weeds, is organic. When I started I knew very little about organic growing; ok, I knew nothing. I knew nothing about any kind of gardening or growing. Below are some of the resources that really helped me learn and get started and be successful.
CSA Shares from a few years back.
Rodale Publishing: They are defunct now, as their publishing arm was sold to a big publisher in the mid 2000's or so. But still, they published a heck of a lot of books about organic gardening, soil work, insect and disease control, and more. The Rodale Institute is still going, and still doing studies and experiments on organic growing (more info). I highly recommend the Institute, and any books you can find in used bookstores - here's a couple of links to get you started.
Four-Season Harvest boy Eliot Coleman - This book basically taught me how to garden. Coleman wrote other books too, which are just as good, but this one was a basic resource for me.
The War Garden Victorious by Charles Lathrop Pack - published in 1919. I was surprised by how useful I have found this book, even though it's 100 years old! Other books about Victory Gardens are also very instructive.
I've plenty of other books about gardening, but many of them are oriented towards growing organic produce and selling it. If you are interested in those, I'll be happy to share. Now...
Soil composition - Soil composition varies with every location, even sometimes yard by yard, or foot by foot. It is composed of different elements in each location. So, your soil is generally not the same as my soil. The various factors of soils which matter in gardening include how much water the soil can hold, how much oxygen it has, the nutrients and minerals it contains, the acidity of the soil, how much organic matter it contains (which has a lot to do with how many nutrients and minerals it has, how much water and oxygen it can hold) and so on. The underlying makeup of the soil, whether it is sandy, clayey, loamy, rocky, etc, is very important to the soil's ability to grow plants as well. The resources above (and below) have a lot of information about the various soils, how to ameliorate them, to change them to favor the crops you wish.
Our growing soil after goat manure has been added.
I suggest consulting with your local soil conservation district, or state or community college geology or agricultural department, to find out more about what your local soils are composed of, useful for, and what might need to be added to those soils to get a good growing medium for vegetable gardening. My soil, for instance, is very wet, very thick, and about 1 to 3 ft down turns into solid gray clay which makes for a super wet winter and spring. We are on a meandering stream bed which once went through a cedar forest full of huge trees. Those trees were cut down 150 or more years ago, and the area has been a farm since then, either raising cattle, or before that, wheat and corn. When I was starting to explore my soil, I encountered the remains of those huge trees' stumps, rotted, but visible (to an archaeologist at least) in the soil. The information I got from the local conservation district really helped me understand what I was dealing with.
One of the main aspects of soil fertility is soil acidity. You can determine the acidity of your own soil with a simple test, available in most garden stores, etc. Food plants generally favor a mildly acid to mildly basic/alkaline soil. Some can deal with more acidic and more basic soils, of course. And microbes, diseases, insects that eat plants also favor various different soil acidity. So manipulating that acidity by applying lime to an acid soil, or sulphur to a basic soil, can help a lot with that soil's plant growing potential.
To greatly improve your soil's composition and benefit all the critters like earthworms that you want growing in the soil, add compost (not mulch, but compost) (organic matter). Always, always, add compost. And if you think you have too much compost, add more. You can spread the compost over the ground (like in no-till planting), and plant in the compost. You can age the compost in a compost heap and then add it to the soil. It doesn't smell then, and it's usually not acidic. You can add organic matter in the form of animal manure. Age it first in a compost heap, or apply lime when you add the manure to the land, if it's horse or cattle manure, or apply it straight on if it's goat or sheep. And... I think that's a topic for another day :).
Some Resources:
Rodale's Successful Organic Gardening: Improving the Soil
Take it away, Open Thread!
Comments
Morning Everyone!
I"m off to bed soon, gonna be a good day today, if it isn't raining. Stuff to weed, to plant, to harden off. Cross your fingers for sun!
Hope everyone has a good day. What's interesting in your world today?
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Rodale also published “Quinto Lingo” magazine. Learn 5 languages
at once! See the ad at lower left:
https://www.unz.com/PDF/PERIODICAL/SaturdayRev-1964dec05/40-41/
https://www.qwant.com/?q=rodale+quinto+lingo+magazine&t=web
Cool!
They published a lot of stuff. I had no idea they were known for weightlifting and workout stuff. But then, I wasn't into that until years after I'd started gardening.
I use Duolingo on my phone or with my webbrowser for learning languages now. I am fluent in Spanish, passable in German (can understand lots, but can't speak it super well), fluent in Latin, and I suck at Russian! Can finally read that alphabet now though
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Domestic Russian radio-station streaming, for listening practice
https://www.radio.de/s/radiorus
Thank you!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Raining here this morning...
and it was needed mainly to wash the pollen out of the air. Yesterday it was thick.
Looks like quite the operation you have going there. Our garden is very much smaller and surrounded by a nine foot fence to keep out the deer.
I use compost and mulch. I'm lucky to have a nearby horse farm/camp as my source. After 35 years we normally apply a few inches in the fall and cover them with mulch. The beds are ready to plant in spring. Everyone has to create their own system for their soil and situation. Mine is a no till approach.
We've only recent begun fruit and nut tree plantings along with berry bushes (which we've grown for years). It has been a fun project. I've got two espaliered apple trees on the north side of the garden that have been a fun and easier than I had thought...
Books that influenced my gardening approach include:
Howard's "The Soil and Health" https://soilandhealth.org/
Faulkner's "A Plowman's Folly"
Bromfield's "Malabar Farm"
Stout's "The No Work Garden"
Fukuoka's "The One Straw Revolution"
Check out the menu at this link for more on Fukuoka
Plus many other influential resources. Along with the Organic Gardening magazines was also Mother Earth News. Coleman is a master gardener as is his friend Jim Kovaleski.
Thanks for the OT. Happy Gardening!
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Compost and Mulch
Are the way to go, I think, in any gardening or growing situation. I like that you've got compost coming from a local horse farm. We used to do that when we were running the CSA. We'd take barn cleanings from local people, compost them and then apply to fields! I am intrigued by the no till approach, but can't really use it in the fields. It's too clayey here. But... on my raised beds which we use now? You bet!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Got the
boxes turned with composted horse manure/straw from the local stables where we keep an old horse in general population
weather is a little too chaotic to plant yet, most of my knowledge about soil conditioning comes from growing cannabis commercially
transfers well to food crops
trying to convince The Wife to allow me to move our food garden to the other end of the yard, neighbors trees have grown taller blocking early/late season sun from it
maybe Next year
dodged a bullet from this last storm system for the fruit trees(frost/freeze/snow) early blossoms
they seemed to come through okay, gonna wait another week or two before we transfer plantings
thanks for hosting
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Cannabis growing?
Very cool. I have thought about doing that. Back when it was illegal to grow cannabis in WA state, I would get surveilled, visited, 'kindly' searched by the law enforcement because I have the glass greenhouse and hoop house for growing starts. Apparently tomato plants look like cannabis to people who haven't ever grown or seen either. It was funny seeing them about 1/2 a mile away, looking through binocs/telescope or whatever, at my greenhouse.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
My native prairie is covered in shooting stars.
They are the first to bloom. Next will be the columbine and then it's off to the races for the sweet susans, the bergamots, the asters, the culvers roots, etc. I have loved this prairie for years and all the fascinating drama that takes place among the insects that play there. It's one giant meditation spot.
Because we travel so much, the only non flower plant I raise is garlic.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Garlic is good to raise!
Do you use your own garlic? We use our own. Over the years we've had two varieties which basically developed themselves from the seed garlic we used to buy. They are very 'russian', in that they are strong flavored, red striped. One's a softneck, one's a hardneck.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Over the years I have tried different varieties, but
the ones that grow the best here in KY are Inchelium and the Music types.
Yes, we use our own garlic until it runs out.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Good morning Sima et y'all. We are default organic, or
maybe paleo-organic. It isn't what we do, but what we don't. We sporadically add some commercial soil to our beds and boxes as the soil subsides and otherwise takes a a hike and sporadically add a little fertilizer such as fish emulsion. For years we used worm compost tea, but then our worms all died and we never restarted. Our other compost bin doesn't get a lot of food other and hence produces little that we can use. Years ago we were much more busy and enthusiastic about all of the processes, but stuff happens.
Nonetheless, we do keep at it in a small way, time, energy, water and all that permitting. We do have producing orange, apricot, apple and pear trees, which keep us kind of busy. We had a Meyer lemon which died and started another in a box. It turns out that our local soil is notorious for killing lemons, especially Meyers accoring to a local nrsery of some repute. It's not so good for apricots, either, especially Blenheims like ours, so production is erratic, spotty and all that, but some cots is better than none.
We also landscaped for wildlife habitat even though we have a small parcel, and the density of assorted trees, shrubs and other plantings eats up a lot of time doing maintenance that we should be spending in the garden if we were serious, but, as Oscar said, life is too important to take seriously.
Thanks for the OT.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Wildlife Habit
is very important! If I wasn't doing writing, in which I can pick the time I work, I couldn't do the work outside needed. It's time consuming. So what you are doing is great! Now that we grow most of our stuff in raised beds, the field is back to pasture for the goats, we also have to add soil as it subsides. We use stuff off the compost heap. BUT... our heap is like 15 feet long by 10 feet wide! That's because we have the room for it, and have to deal with all the goat manures, the berry, and tree prunings and so on. We compost everything. If we didn't, we'd have to buy commercial soil and fertilizer, which we did when we started.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Good morning, Sima!
Lovely of you to drop a Tuesday OT for us.
I am thinking of getting manure from a nearby burro ranch. Gotta do something to replace commercial fertilizer.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Manure is the best
And getting it from neighbors rocks. If you have the space and time, compost the manure before applying it. Then it needs no lime. But if you have to apply it right away, add a little lime. It takes the sting out of fresh manure. Goat manure doesn't need lime! I found that out when I first got goats. The goat berries are so hard, they take a while to decompose, and are like time released fertilizer. Horse manure, and cow? Lime it!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
I got time, got space.
Nobody close has goats or sheep. Cows, horses, burros. The burros are right across the highway, the owner lives there, so I could ask him. I doubt he stalls any of them, though.
I have some other options.
Anything we have to buy at the damn feed store will just jump up the costs.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Morning Sima
Great OT.
Good start on soils and how important it is. Only second behind sun.
Location location location.
Lotta posts here regarding different manures from a wide variety of animals. Far as I know, they all work as long as they are ruminants.
Chicken and other poultry are also good but very powerful, careful application is required.
Looking forward to bouncing off your OT and all the posters who have joined in for next weeks OT, which I will host.
Had two whole days of dry and sunny weather last weekend. Heading for a record month in rainfall. But I got some bone meal, composted manure, and shreaded leaves bagged up from last fall worked into the soil a little.
I cover with plastic my 14 x 22 suburban garden about a month before I start working it. It's a lot less muddy. I recovered it until the rain lets up a little.
My 3 acre farm is tilless, using the Ruth Stout method.
Anyway, have a good day.
And as Student of Earth says: Make dirt, not war.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
SOE got that from
eyo, if truth be told.
thanks for poking in
your efforts are verily appreciated!
Sounds like you are doing great work!
Looking forward to next week's OT! I have to admit, we always, always, compost the chicken manure. We'll apply the goat manure straight to the bed, and the horse manure we get with a little bit of lime, but chicken? Nope, goes on the compost heap first.
We had some dry and sunny weather here last week, about the same amount. We had some sun today but... it started hailing when I was pruning roses, so I went back inside. I'm aching for the sun, everything is growing, and growing out of control because I can't get out and prune or weed or care for it. I like your system of putting down manure and mulch in the fall. I am hoping to do that on the raised beds we use.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
A bit off topic but I want to share
a list of the birds attending our feeders as of late
blue bird
cardinal
chickadee
starling
RW blackbird
woodpecker
bluejay
goldfinch
sparrow
wren
nuthatch
titmouse
viero
flicker
junko
purple finch
hummer
what a joy!
to say nothing about the bunches of birds about the grounds
robin
mourning dove
grackle
picked people eater
and all the wrest which can not be identified ..
Thanks for filling in!
I don't think it's off topic, it's great!
We have four bird feeders, some feed 'finch' type food, others feed straight sun flower seed (when we can get it). And we've got hummingbird feeders too. Looking at your list, I think we get a lot of the same birds except cardinals and veiros. We get brewer's blackbirds too.
A few year's after we started raising chickens for eggs, we got mourning doves showing up. Nw, I'm not sure if that's the chickens, or if that's climate change. We never used to get brewer's blackbirds, but climate change reduced the number of RW blackbirds by about 3/4's (reduced the amount of local wetlands) and the brewer's stepped in.
On the ground? Robins, robins, robins. Thank the gods. They were very late arriving this year. Climate change again? Lots of what I call 'LBJ's (little brown jobs - can't identify them, usually female sparrow types) on the feeders and ground. And in the air, the swallows are back. I love them, just love them.
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so
Cartoonist Joshua Barkman likes to draw many species of birds
https://falseknees.com/
If I knew more about birds I would be able to identify, name, and list them
yah, I don't know birds all that swell
probably have a half dozen types of sparrows
know not one from another -- same with finches
Goldies are easy, but the reds go into unknown territory
so many black birds, some are iridescent! Most are voracious.
Same with the peckerheads. We call the big ones granddaddies.
It is amazing the difference between the males and females
within the same species. I guess they know which are which
I have been a koi keeper for years,
in that hobby we say, you dont take care of koi. You take care of water and the koi will take care of themselves.
I think in gardening there is a similar truism about compost. If you compost well you garden well.
I am new to larger scale gardening. At the beginning of Covid I took over a garden 82 by 208 feet. It is on an organic farm so I have no choice but to garden organically, which I am happy to abide by organic rules. The landowner would have to kick me off if I did anything to put his Org certification at risk.
For compost, if my pile hits 140 degrees for 7 days or more then there is a lot of leeway as to what I add to it. I haul lots of bags of leaves from the city. (I save the bags for ground cover/weed block.) To the leaves I add cow manure. I can use a Bobcat and haul with that (from farmers barn). I generally start with 6 bucket loads of manure. It takes around 100 bags of leaves, 20 bales of hay and other dry material (wood chips from a friends dog kennel) to balance out the 6 loads of cow manure. Last year a man stopped by that cuts weeds out of a local lake. Cabin owners have the weeds harvested by their docks. He hauled 6-8 tandem axle trailers of lake weed for me to add to pile. Again, thank goodness I have access to a bobcat loader. The lake weeds got super stinky quickly. And if not mixed in well with other material would draw flies. Mixed in it works fine. And gets the pile smoking hot in a hurry.
Last years pile has a super nice texture and I am excited to start applying it. The pile is about 3-4 pick up loads. I will gift 5 gallon buckets of it to several friends. And haul some home for my in town garden. The rest starts getting applied Thursday. And the new pile gets stirred up same day.
The other thing I do for more compost- it turns out there is a place nearby that processes all of the city leaf and lawn waste. The final product is certified organic. They sell material at 23-25$ per CUBIC YARD! That is an entire pick up load! I have one of those pick up trucks turned into a trailer that I will haul that with. I will fill this trailer to the brim and have a topper on it to keep it dry. Parked right at the gate of garden. Some of my garden is heavy and clay like. I like to use a bulb hole cutter and pull a plug of soil out. Fill the hole with compost soil mix and plant into it. FYI, my compost store sells straight compost, a 50/50 blend with black dirt. And also a 45/45/10 with black dirt and sand to help loosen up soil. They also have a "potters blend" with 10-20% fine sawdust (proprietary blend with other ingredients). All these products around 25$ for a full pick up load.
2000 garlic are already up.
14 rhubarb to split and turn into 28.
120 tomatoes started. (See Frogs Leap Farm on FB. My garden is a test station for them).
180 peppers started.
30 basil started.
100 rhubarb started.
I really need to expand my onion growing this year. That is a new crop for me in the last 2 years.
How, that sounds great!
When we were doing the CSA we did about 2 acres of garden, so maybe 3 times what you are doing? We did the compost much the same, we have a tractor that we use to turn it and carry it around. We turn the heap once every two months or more. We water it in the summer. It gets everything, everything that is compostable. So it gets manure, it gets left over dinners, it get weeds trimmings, prunings, bedding straw, old chicken straw/wood shavings (and chicken droppings), leaves, ashes from the fireplace, dead animals (buried deep) and whatever else. When it's wet and running hot, it can compost a dead goat body in about a month (not including the thick bones like a jaw). Great on all the starts too. We used to do about that much garlic. We grow the toms and peppers inside a hoop house, did about 150 plants of each. Now we do 50 or so. But we can the toms and never have to buy canned toms. We cut up and freeze the peppers, they work great that way in cooking. We are too far north to have the basil grow well in the garden, so that's in the hoop house too. Sounds like you have a great operation going! Many kudos!
If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so