The whole COVID debate is beginning to feel a lot like Russiagate and Stop The Steal
In all three of these "scandals" the biggest, most important facts are ignored, while the most vocal advocates focus almost exclusively on the minutia.
For Russiagate, the idea that $100K of puppy memes on Facebook would overturn a multi-billion dollar election is comically absurd. Russiagate enthusiasts almost never talked about how ridiculous this looked from a big picture view..
For Stop The Steal, you would think that losing every single one of your 63 lawsuits challenging the election results (with most of the judges ruling against you being Republican appointed) might shake people's faith. But this is a matter of faith, not facts.
COVID is a lot more complicated than the previous two, because there are elements of it that are real and deserve vigorous debate, such as the lockdowns.
However, that isn't what everyone is yelling about. Instead you have people on Twitter pretending to understand the subtleties of how vaccines work, when we all know that you don't have a clue! Well, everyone except you, apparently. You can't understand how vaccines work from Twitter memes. There's actual science behind vaccines, and the science doesn't care about your politics.
As if to prove my point, the very same people that scream about the dangers of vaccines are going down to the local feed store to buy literal horse pills so that they can "own the libs". These same people never admit to the irony that they are poisoning themselves in an effort to vaccinate themselves from a disease that they've spent months assuring us was not dangerous.
I can't think of anything more rock-chewing stupid.
"Never use medications intended for animals on yourself."
- an actual CDC warning
There is one element that is true for all three of these "scandals" - the partisan politics has overwhelmed and drowned out the facts.
Russiagate True Believers intentionally ignored how almost all of their theories were later proven false.
Stop The Steal True Believers did the same, but then you get the impression that the facts are secondary with them.
The COVID anti-vax crowd, unlike the first two groups aren't faking it at all. They are totally serious, but that makes it all the more tragic. You see them use hyperbolic terms like "martial law" and "genocide", and then play the victim when you laugh at their obvious misunderstanding of what words actually mean.
Just like the Russiagate and STS crowd, they totally ignore when their original claims are proven dubious or wrong.
Just like Russiagate and STS crowds, the COVID anti-vax crowd likes to scream about anecdotal incidents and ignore the most important number of all - 650,000 dead Americans. They never stop and appreciate the magnitude and significance of a number that large, nor do I expect them to now. I've seen statements from them like "It's only dangerous to old and sickly people," as if the lives of old and sickly people aren't worth anything.
As long as they refuse to acknowledge the importance of that number, they can't expect to win anyone over to their position.
Ignoring or downplaying the deaths of 650,000 people just shows that you don't respect other people and their loss. Respect goes both ways.
Now if you want to talk about lockdowns, that's a whole other thing. There are class-based issues and hardships put upon the working class from the lockdowns that are severely underappreciated and largely ignored by the media.
Comments
It's a complex of disorders
"I won't catch it" -- it isn't real because I don't want it to be, because magic "I'm protected by the blood of Jesus", or because I'm white and white genes are superior. Bad things don't happen to good people, and I'm as good as it gets. You're sick, or disabled, or poor, because you just aren't good enough. We all get what we deserve, I deserve health and wealth and you deserve suffering and death.
"I'll just shake it off" -- I'll be one of the lucky ones who are asymptomatic, or it will just be like the flu. Because magic, because I work out, and did I mention that I'm white?
"If I get it bad they'll just give me the cure" -- because THEY (you know, THEM) have a cure they've been keeping SECRET, keeping it under the counter just for the ELITES (you know, smart, competent people, not the wealthy who are JUST LIKE ME), but my outrage will be enough to shame them into sharing it with me. And did I mention that I'm white? If not, I'll use bleach, or horse dewormer, which is the real cure anyway.
Somewhere I read an article on anti-vax, going back to the original cow pox/smallpox vaccine. Germ theory of disease, real things that you can't see with the naked eye but aren't made up magic. These people have always been with us.
Vax mandates? Mask mandates? Business closures? These are constant reminders of objective reality, chipping away at the armor of faith that insulates them from a universe that doesn't care about their self-image. This is deeply threatening. Once you doubt the magic, it quits working.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
I posted this on reddit
The responses range from "you don't understand" to "that's offensive" to "you've fallen for the scam" to "this is disappointing coming from you".
No one in this crowd has ever thought "650,000 Americans killed. Holy F*ck! That's a lot of people. I wonder what the families of those people who were killed think?"
I know that I will alienate some people with this, but I'm going to stay true to myself regardless of the cost. When I see bullsh*t I'm going to call it out.
I think what you are seeing on reddit
is the final slide of a group into echo-chamber irrelevance, if it is the group I'm thinking of.
At this point, everybody who is aware of that group knows pretty much exactly what is going to be posted there, and exactly what will or will not be shouted down or pig-pile downvoted into oblivion. If you like that sort of thing as an echo chamber, then it's a great place to be. But if you don't agree with the state religion, and in particular if you are interested in other things than the state religion advocates, there are greener pastures.
The people who go there now are generally kewl-kid edgypersons who simply get off on winding one another up. The process of winding-up is now blessed by management (the single rule of "don't be a dick" has been waived for topics advocated for by the state religion). It's a pity, because there are still some people there with worthwhile viewpoints: but the signal-to-noise ratio has hit a definite tipping point, and many people who aren't particularly interested in winding people up for sport have simply moved on.
I admire your willingness to try to contribute there, and call out things that you know to be untrue. But in this post-truth world, nothing matters but the color of your jersey, and ultimately in which stadium you're playing the game. I find myself falling back to Heinlein's Lazarus Long quote: "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes time and annoys the pig." There are other stadiums.
It's everywhere. And there's going to be more of it, much more, before it gets better...
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
I'm seeing a lot of blind faith...
from both sides. A lot of shaming from both side as well.
I draw the line at horse pills
There is a level of stupid that I don't feel obligated to respect. And that level involves intentionally doing things that will make you lose at Darwinism.
I think an important flaw about America is on display here - our hyper-individualism.
We are in a pandemic.
Like it or not, we are ALL in it. You don't have a choice in the matter.
When we are all in something, we all have obligations both to the individual AND to each other.
Americans just can't seem to make it to the "each other" part.
That's why the COVID skeptics never, literally never, mention the 650,000 dead Americans. Because they don't feel any obligations.
This sort of thinking is one of the reasons why we still don't have universal health care.
This sort of thinking is one of the reasons why we are unable to make a serious effort to stop environmental destruction. Because environmentalism is treated as a personal lifestyle choice.
That being said, I totally understand and sympathize those protesting lockdowns. The lockdowns were NOT a case of "we are all in this together".
I too have drawn lines...
which are quickly approaching. I see no need to insult anyone to make a point. Nor do I see a need to browbeat anyone that may disagree.
Pandemic or not.
OK. I'll drop the topic
I've said everything that I wanted to say.
Well, except for this: THE PANDEMIC IS ALMOST OVER!
If you look at the average historical pandemic, we are in the 7th or 8th inning.
The Delta variant should be peaking right about now. The number of new cases will crash in the coming weeks.
There will most likely be another wave in a couple months, but it will be much smaller than the Delta variant.
So everyone who thinks that Covid is the #1 issue in the U.S., you'll have to get something else to focus on in a few weeks.
I'm going to have to disagree
I expect a new surge in the coming months - around Nov/Dec that coincides with the influenza season.
BTW, what do you think of the COVID-19 passports that are starting to appear? So far only Honolulu and New York have instituted them. About 1/2 the States have outright banned them and 1/2 do not require them.
I would suggest that having 650,000
dead Americans is a strong cause for concern. This nation spends the largest amount of money towards health care yet we are in one of the highest percentiles when it comes to deaths/million - in the middle of Mexico and Tunisia. Over 200 of the 222 countries listed on the COVID-19 WorldOMeter have a better outcome.
But, one of the things that I have noted, it is NOT because of lack of vaccinations. Many of the countries that have fared much better had nowhere near the US vaccination rate. From my standpoint, the reason the US is doing so poorly is the almost complete reliance on vaccines to solve the problem. Israel (which has a high rate of vaccination) has set up contagion hotels to treat and isolate people if they get infected. But the is little done in the US other than the advice: "Stay at home, isolate and if it gets really bad then go to the hospital". It's too fucking late for many at that time! We could do with a prophylaxis like Israel does.
There is no way we can vaccinate ourselves out of this problem - even with a 100% vaccination rate. The vaccines neither prevent infection nor convey immunity and they also lose their potency after half a year. How long do you think the American people are going to put up with bi-yearly mandated vaccines as this virus mutates ESPECIALLY if they come with a health passport that has an expiry date after 6 months.
The inexpensive prophylactics that are being studied can be beneficial if they can reduce viral loading and shorten time of infection. This, in the least would alleviate shortages of critical hospital beds for those that require them.
I totally agree
You'll get no argument from me on your point here.
IMHO, we've committed two crimes against our citizens during this pandemic.
1) we were very late making covid tests free (remember the $3,000 Covid test?). So obviously no one went and got tested until it was out of control.
2) we never even discussed making treatment for Covid free. This actually discourages people from getting tested for Covid (what good does it do me if I discover that I have it?) as well as getting treated for Covid until it's critical.
One of the things that worried me
was the complete lack of testing in the US. This fuck up was cause by the CDC insisting ONLY THEY produce and supply tests. They completely failed to produce a reliable test. It was only on May 5, 2020 that they authorized other test kits to be used. By March 11, 2020 the U.S had tested less than than 10,000 people.
This fact allowed COVID-19 to go rampant throughout the US. Look at the movement of the spring breakers by March 28, 2020 that had ended up spreading the virus:
This entire fiasco has been a fantastic income earner for the drug and private medical industry - unlike no other in history. The for-profit hospitals were encouraged to report as many cases to be related to COVID-19 as they could. People have been bankrupted over the cost of healthcare.
It isn't a pill to start with, it is a paste
and illustrates your lack of understanding. The human form is pills. Horses get paste.
People are suing to demand an IVM script.
https://c-vine.com/blog/opinion-ivermectin-wins-in-court-again-for-human...
There is a massive push to degenerate IVM...
https://trialsitenews.com/forums/discussion/pharmacies-refusing-to-fill-...
It does remind me of Russiagate...acceptance that IVM is bad just like Russia.
You're a smart person. Listen to the ICU doctors using it with success before you criticize others.
https://covid19criticalcare.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/SUMMARY-OF-TH...
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I think the anti-IVM talk is at least as bad as Russiagate.
Maybe worse. It's reviled, ridiculed, and lied about. The last straw for me was when a doctor prescribing IVM to prison inmates was described as "experimenting on prisoners", and compared to Mengele.
Anti-vaxxers, anti-maskers, anti-IVMers (more generally, vaccine true believers who follow the dogma of "though shalt have no other treatments before me"), the Stop the Steal crowd; I think the US has the world's worst case of something I call civilizational dementia.
Is there a vaccine for that?
Right.
Don't get a vaccine because the 10s of millions of people to whom it has been administered are not an adequate test. But prescribing horse medicine with testing that isn't a decimal point of a percentage of vaccine testing creates no problem.
It's just a coincidence that deaths are spiking in Trump country where vaccination is lower. Hospitals are lying about the small numbers of deaths among the vaccinated population.
Getcher Big Pharma talking Points Here! n/t
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I just now noticed this, and my response is,
I'm PISSED. Your reading skills are shit. I have never said "don't get the vaccine". And regarding testing of Ivermectin, you're flat out wrong.
A little less...
animosity next time, OK.
The lockdowns should have been
a case of "we're all in this together."
At least we're no longer debating (21st century aka - screaming at each other) hydroxychloroquine as a treatment for Covid-19. If anti-malarial and anti-parasitic drugs were helpful in treating viral infections, it would surely have been noticed long before Covid19 emerged.
It was noticed.
From the NIH: "Chloroquine is active in vitro and in animal models against several viruses, including human immunodeficiency virus (HIV),13 hepatitis C virus (HCV),14 influenza type H1N1,15 H5N1,16 flaviviruses such as dengue virus and Zika,17 MERS virus18–20 and SARS-CoV-1.21–25". (numbers are links; I didn't want to risk messing it up while deleting).
I didn't read the whole thing, so I don't know HOW effective it is, although there was an indication that it's not much help against COVID. But here's a case of an anti-malarial drug helping against viruses.
There are a number of studies
that showed the anti-viral properties of invermectin previously. Some as early as the 1990's. What brought ivermectin to the forefront was a study by a Japanese researcher.
COVID-19: The Ivermectin African Enigma
There are ongoing studies
of Ivermectin as a prophylaxis for COVID-19 (272) as shown by the National Library of Medicine
In addition there are ongoing clinical trial studies at the US National Library of Medicine - 75 studies - Clinical studies related to COVID-19 & Ivermectin
I suggest people actually read the Guardian report that was given:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2021/jul/16/huge-study-supporting-iv...
Any publication that insinuates that the ivermectin being used is equivalent to a veterinary paste is demeaning and simply propagandizing the issue to elicit an emotional response.
"The post, which includes a photo of an apple-flavored paste for treating parasites in horses, only accumulated about 200 shares within three days. But similar posts touting ivermectin have been widely shared across platforms, and farm supply stores across the country are running low on anti-parasitics for horses, cows and pigs."
BTW, there are many drugs that have both veterinary and human uses such as antibiotics, non-steroidal anti-inflammatories, opioid pain relievers, antiparasitics, steroids, hormones and other medications (diabetes treatment, abnormal thyroid hormone levels) and chemotherapeutics.
Just one
question: died With covid as opposed to From covid?
Someone posted the Chicago presser where they announced the health authorities were Not differentiating between the two.
And what you don’t seem to get is that the Same people who Brought you russiagate, stop the steal, wmd, we’re Winning in Afghanistan are Also the ones who purport to NOW(?) care about you’re health and safety and that the vaccines are the Only hope for humanities survival against this plague.
When the vax first came out it was known that it wouldn’t prevent the disease, but that quickly morphed into We’re Saved! in the press.
And now people are waking up to the Fact of Over 600,000 adverse reactions reported to Vaers with close to 15,000 deaths reported.
The kicker?
EVERYONE agrees only one to ten percent of adverse reactions are reported to vaers.
Have you done THAT math? I have and the answer Sucks.
I know, two questions. Sue me.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I've kept a lookout for this
Because if the number of deaths from Covid is heavily inflated then that changes everything.
Well, I've seen no evidence of it, and I've been looking. And at this point, 18 months or so into the pandemic, if there's no whistleblowers coming forward and declaring that this is all a scam, we aren't going to see it.
What's more, if you can find evidence that Covid deaths are inflated by, say 10% or 15%, do you know what that means? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Because we are still talking about half a million deaths.
Actually the Stop The Steal people are in YOUR camp.
IMO, with or from does not matter
because, just because a person had other medical issues before contracting COVID, and then died after contracting COVID should not discount the fact that COVID was the reason why they died at that time. In other words, are their deaths any less important than a death of a person who was perfectly healthy before COVID?
And for the record, the person I know who suffered the most from COVID was a local retail business owner who was in her 30's, in excellent health, and was training for a marathon when she got COVID. She ended up with the long version and had to sell her business one year later because she was still dealing with its after affects.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I thought I had posted that tweet
on a woman saying that if people died from cancer, auto accidents or anything else but they tested positive for Covid they were counted as Covid deaths. Much different from dying from only Covid. I can’t find it.
But there’s this one on why we won’t defeat it.
Also 2 people that worked for the FDA have resigned because Biden overruled them on booster shots. There was no debate on whether to approve it or not. I’ll try to find it again. Add them to the 3 other people who resigned after they authorized the Alzheimer’s drug that didn’t really show good results.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Here ya go, if you had Covid while in hospice
Covid will be listed as cause of death
https://week.com/2020/04/20/idph-director-explains-how-covid-deaths-are-...
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Thanks!
Yes that’s the problem I have with the 650 k have died from Covid. Died from or with it are 2 different things. And when insurance gets paid more for people who died from it is higher there is an incentive for them to go for the higher amount.
I’ve seen countries that have adjusted their numbers and the number of deaths from it were much less. Hopefully one day the truth will out.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Gjohnsit the tweet above is a must watch
this doctor says that he has been treating people with ivermectin and has gotten good results. And it’s for humans not horses. This is the new shaming issue to keep people from looking into it. Pharmacists are refusing to fill the human type because they have been threatened not to.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
OK. I watched it
Then I noted that Sebastian Gorka was the one reposting it. Which made me suspicious.
So I Googled the doctor's name:
But then I know what the reply will be to this: "So you are gonna believe those liars!"
When the logical response should be to ask you, why didn't you spend 2 minutes doing a Google search?
I don't want to make you defensive, but this is an important question. Because now I'm going to doubt any thing you show me because you haven't done your due diligence.
I’m not going to say that
Glad you watched it is all. All we can do is make up our own minds on stuff we’re exposed to.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Do you believe the fact checkers at USA Today?
If so, that is surprising.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Gorka is definitely a red flag.
But I don't trust the news reports, either, not with headlines like that.
Headline from Louisville Courier Journal...my newspaper...
In 2020 there was one report of Ivermectin poisoning. This year 13 so far... 75% from taking farm animal version and 25% from taking doctor prescribed IVM.
also https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/08/30/fact-check-590-...
https://www.news4jax.com/health/2021/08/26/poison-control-in-2-states-fi...
https://www.4029tv.com/article/arkansas-poison-ivermectin/37386224#
https://www.kcci.com/article/iowa-poison-control-warning-ivermectin-covi...
https://upnorthnewswi.com/2021/08/31/17-wisconsinites-have-had-ivermecti...
https://www.8newsnow.com/i-team/i-team-nevada-poison-calls-increase-for-...
https://www.wsj.com/articles/use-of-antiparasitic-drug-ivermectin-agains...
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I'm not surprised at increased calls to poison centers.
After all, the formulations for domestic animals require careful measuring to avoid an overdose. The obvious solution is to stop calling it "horse de-wormer" (that's like calling antibiotics "hog weight-gain drugs", and STOP threatening doctors, so they can feel free to prescribe it if they so choose.
I would like to know more about those 3 people who had problems after being prescribed it by a doctor.
Speaking of 3,
3 lawsuits against drs., one in Ohio, iirc, got judges to order Ivermectin be administered. All 3 patients recovered, and recovered quickly. I think it will only take a few more lawsuits, a few more judges that respect wives or husbands who demand EVERY DAMN THING that has worked anywhere be used on their spouses, for it to become a very easy court order to obtain.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Btw
this should be tagged under #EmotionalBlackmail if we’re gonna be honest.
When that’s all you’ve got left in your quiver, you’ve already lost.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
That wasn't how I intended it
The Covid anti-vax crowd likes to say that everyone else isn't listening to them, and should be more understanding of their concerns. Anirite?
That's what I've read.
Well, I've turned that sentiment on it's head.
What about the tens of millions of people who have lost friends and family members to this disease? What about their concerns? They have more skin in the game than anyone.
It's a fair question.
(no, I haven't lost a family member to Covid yet)
I'll bite
Anyone believing what the CDC is telling you is a one way street leading only to vaccines
Ivermectin is safe for human use and has been for years. And conflating the fact that people
think Covid isn't a thing to then saying Ivermectin isn't a thing evens the field, YMMV
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
There's been a long history with ivermectin
in Sub-Saharan Africa. Over 3.7 billion doses have been given out globally by Merck since 1987. I would presume it has been safety tested? /S
I generally like your posts,
but I think you need to do some research on Ivermectin.
I always have a tube of the horse paste on hand. I worm my dogs monthly with it. For about 8$ per year I can keep 3 hounds safe from a multitude of parasites. My urban friends use something like Heart Guard that comes from their vet. At a cost of around 300$ per dog per year (including the annual physical the vet requires). I use it because I trust it. It saves me money.
Many of my friends keep and use Ivermectin for a myriad of issues. It is a VERY trusted drug with a VERY good safety profile. Safer than aspirin. Safer than any vaccines. Millions of doses are used every year by humans all over the globe with very very few reported side effects. Sufferers of rheumatoid arthritis love it. People who don't want to go blind with river blindness use it.
The propaganda being put out by the "vax only" crowd trash talking a medication that shows great promise in helping us get out of this pandemic is nothing short of shameful. There are lots of scientific studies showing it to be effective. Many experts think we should be doing both vax and Iv. Iv can shorten viral duration and viral load. VAX can not do that.
Bingo CB!
I imagine that tptb don't want us plebes to know Ivermectin is safe to take. And the fact that it just might work is certainly a bridge too far for them to contemplate as it shreds their narrative.
EDIT:spelling
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
I'm with you
We have Ivermectin at home as we do animal rescues. It is great for killing ear mites. We have it in liquid form.
We have other medicines for routine problems that show up in our rescues.
I realize people instantly distrust our government when it comes to anything, especially when it comes to money, but the facts are rather obvious. When even a Syrian Arab news website is quoting their own doctor about how needed the vaccine is, one has to start to think. This is about as far away for the TBTB that I can think of. They have no money and have to beg for free doses. Yet they still tout vaccine over everything else.
http://sana.sy/?p=1466287
If you know the correct
dosage to take of the ivermectin paste, it works well. I know of six cases where people with covid took the ivermectin paste and got better and recovered. It works. Please don't jump to conclusions without actual knowledge of the situation.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I'm not thrilled with the idea of eating a paste.
But the injectible liquid (used on swine and cows) can just be added to water and drunk.
I have to chuckle at my reaction to the prospect of eating a paste. GAHHHH! YUCK! It may be tasty, but I'm not eager to find out.
I know of many more than 6 people . . .
including a number who are elderly with comorbidities who recovered without taking Ivermectin. The fact that someone took less than a lethal dose of Ivermectin and recovered from Covid does not prove the person recovered because of Ivermectin.
A couple of things
The discussion on this essay seems to be about several points. If I am wrong, feel free to correct me. At this point, I really do not care because I have witnessed a lot of this first hand and seem to be the only person who has posted in that vein.
1) Whether or not people should become vaccinated.
I personally had reservations about the vaccines at first, but became vaccinated because it was the only way I thought I would be able to visit my elderly mother at her independent living facility. As time has gone by since I was vaccinated with my second dose in February, I have become convinced that this was the right thing to do. The death rate from the vaccines is significantly lower than the death rate from COVID.
In addition, studies and statistics are showing that even if a vaccinated person experiences a break through, their symptoms are far milder. Of the recent deaths from COVID, 99% are among those who were unvaccinated.
2) Ivermectin.
I personally have zero problems with the use of Ivermectin as a treatment for COVID. THe big problem I have with Ivermectin is how many people who are opposed to the vaccines say that they will just get Ivermectin if they get COVID and all will be well. My problem with this thinking is that it is okay to get the virus and then rely more on the treatment to save oneself.
To stop a pandemic, we must all participate in every form of prevention we can utilize. For me that means vaccination, wearing a mask, regardless of vaccination status, and social distancing. Relying on a treatment alone after the fact does not take into consideration of how you may be spreading the virus to other more vulnerable people.
3) Masks. Masks are another tool in the arsenal to prevent the spread of COVID. They have also been more politicized than anything else, at least in the South. Masks work best when everyone is wearing one. With the advent of the delta variant, N95 or KN95 are the best defense against the virus.
4) I have been very surprised at how few people here appear to have even known anyone who has contracted COVID. I have posted on numerous occasions that I personally have known at least 20 people who have tested positive for COVID, five of whom were family members. Maybe that is because everyone I have known who had COVID (with one exception) lived in Florida which is ground zero for the delta variant and for the virus in general. When you know about it first hand, the impacts of this pandemic become more real and less just something to argue about in the abstract.
This will probably be my last post on COVID because I realize nothing will change. We have become a nation more divided than ever when we cannot unite even over a pandemic that has killed around 700K Americans and will continue to kill even more because we refuse to take even the most basic steps of social distancing and masking because it is personally inconvenient. We are rapidly devolving into a third world country.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Re:
I waited about 6 months before I got vaccinated because i wanted to see if they messed up. Yes, I didn't automatically trust "The Man".
It looks a lot like a contradictory double-standard to me. Which tells me that the real problem they have is with the government. And if that's the case, then they have an agenda.
Exactly! I made this point because it is real.
I've fortunately not known anyone who died of Covid, but I've known a lot of friends and relatives who got hospitalized.
It'll be my last essay on it, because everyone has made up their minds and the facts on the ground don't have any impact.
WTF?
If we have a problem with the gov’t , we have an Agenda?!?
EVERY post you WRITE shows the problems with gov’t, yet WE have an ‘AGENDA’. Did you think that one through before posting?
I’m guessing ‘no’.
And I love(not) how broad your brush strokes painting everyone that doesn’t trust THIS Vaccine as anti-maskers, covid deniers, fuck the old people types, or even ‘stop the steal’ers.
Mia familia have co-morbidities, got vaxed and suffered for a week to ten days after the second shot.
Now they’re worried they’ll bring it home and infect Me!
That’s how ‘effective’ this vax is(sidenote: every time I write vax, autoIncorrect replaces it with bad. Not kidding).
I spent the last 18 months wearing a mask indoors anytime away from the house. I gargle with tincture of iodine twice a day, I wash my hands costantly during the day and I follow the FLCCC preventative guidelines on supplements.
I’ve been exposed to the virus working with Mexicans and Guatemalans that DID contract the virus.over the last year. They tested positive.
Does that mean I won’t get it? Of course it doesn’t!
But you would have to hold a gun on me-nah, you’d have to have a few big strong men, willing to be hurt bad, holding me down before I ever get these shots.
The Only reason I’m not taking ivermectin is because ASSwholes in charge have deemed it ridiculous and made it difficult to get. Not impossible, mind you, just difficult.
There’s a reason why vaccines take so long to market(in the past).
Safety.
These ones don’t pass imo. Tens of thousands dead, hundreds of thousands fucked up for the mid to long term.
And that’s just the ones reported Here, in the good ol’ USA.
WITH OR WITHOUT this vaccine anyone can get it, spread it, and Die from this disease. BeLIEve the SCIENCE we are told.
Well, that’s what the science tells us.
I’ll keep doing what I’m doing and wait until the long term studies come back. And I’ll take those with a Chunk of salt with the fda regulatory capture that You’ve reported on, I believe.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
This is no longer a pandemic
it's endemic. Watch the video with Dr. John Campbell that Lookout posted in the EB. I had seen it but watched it again. Everyone will get covid. Period. Shot or no shot - everyone is going to get it. I will use ivermectin to treat myself. My doctor agrees. My doctor is against the shot because the body heals itself with the correct treatments.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Gulfgal,
I lost an aunt and and uncle due to COVID. I took in yet another probate case with the cause of death being COVID. 3 close neighbors died from it. 5 or 6 friends died from it. 9 of my lawyer pals had it and barely survived. One probate case was the vaccination as cause of death. One friend died from the vaccination. One vaxxed friend is in hospice, dying from COVID. I must know personally around 50 people who have had it. Some vaxxed, some not. A niece of mine who is an RN has had COVID 4 times.
I do not like to talk about it. That doesn't mean I do not care, or think it is just a passing thing. It just doesn't help for me to talk about those people. It may even gin up fear.
It does help to talk about treatments. All of them.
I do not see anti-vaxxers as having a political agenda. They have a different point of view about their health decisions.
I hope you will be able to avoid getting sick. Your protocols sound very practical.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Just goes to show everyone has something they stick at
Rightly or wrongly, they decide "This doesn't make sense", and refuse to join the thundering herd.
We shouldn't be herd animals, anyway - we should be cats, and not allow ourselves to be herded.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
This colony of cats is called a clowder
or a glaring or even an entanglement depending on your point of view.
“clowder99percent”—has a certain cachet, doesn’t it? Meeow ! n/t
Me too
Anyone notice some countries are begging for the vaccine, even WHO is saying we are hoarding it. After reading a rather unpopular comment on a Canadian site from a wildlife biologist saying that when species over populates the earth enough to throw things out of balance nature tends to use disease to thin the herd. He believes we are being thinned. I agree with him. But it feels like our country and others are withholding vaccines from poorer countries without the means to create their own but sitting on valuable natural resources. Covid as a neutron bomb sort of thing. I have many friends in Mexico that have been on a vaccine waiting list it has been taking 3 to 6 months to get to the top in some Mexican states. I have both had covid and had the vaccine. I have been working in public through the whole thing. Recently a woman who I work with came down with it. She is opposed to vaccines. All of us who had lots of contact with her were required to get a test only 2 of us came back clean, me and one young man. Of the 5 that tested positive 3 had been vaccinated, 2 within the last 5 months, one right at the beginning. 2 were not vaccinated. I have zero faith in anything either side says. Ivermectin is used most frequently as a farm animal treatment for parasites. It's side benefit is it seems to knock out certain respiratory diseases in chickens. In most countries including this one it is also available in human form. In many countries the human form is also sold over the counter. Here because people have chosen to try it the human form has been banished from prescription even for those things there is scientific evidence it treats. I don't know one way or another if it works, I am waiting to read the scientific studies from countries other than our own. I know longer have any faith in either side of the argument in this country.
These doctors,
, the FLCCC Alliance:
https://covid19criticalcare.com/
have the most research in ivermectin. Please check them out.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Found this poem the other day.
Kinda heavy, but It hits on a few notes:
the stench of truth
This "plague" isn't going away anytime soon
we're openly told this is our new normal
to bend over and over without any lube-
There's much to be gained by prolonging the pain
from the made in china masks you're wearing
from the made in china parts that go into Covid test kits.
Always know the communists are dreaming up ways
of pulling the heart of the free world from its chest-
Barbed question marks are thrust into bloodstreams
one vaccine is concocted from cells
of two aborted babies from the seventies...
a boy and a girl given letters and numbers instead of names
like the vagabonds stuffed into Auschwitz cattle trains
(who says pulling limbs from innocents doesn't pay)-
This plague isn't going away anytime soon
for it's a bonanza and windfall for conglomerates
at the expense of the working class stiff..
while they tell us not to gather in numbers
or pay our final respects to loved ones
the privileged gather in scores
along Martha's vineyard sparkling shores-
Let us not forget how they released hordes of convicts
onto the streets to protect THEM from a bug
then yapped to defund the police
leaving the rest of us under the P.C bus.. once again
Let us not forget how they inoculated
nursing homes with imminent death
then patted themselves on the back..
while a mercy ship sat in big apple harbor
fully equipped with a thousand empty beds...
Let us not forget about the covid sword
swung wildly by politicians around election time
sticking their pointy fingers in our minds
numbers kneaded into place-fun house distortions..
Something stinks like the devil and we all know it
follow the money trail if you dare
the opaque becomes very clear
this trail will always lead to the truth
to the echo of the cold stone hearted
and the golden palmed..
let us not forget how they made us do the twist
in a dark pit filled with wet lepers and vipers-
Anthony Blaanco
Open-and-shut case against ivermectin as Covid-19 treatment?
Not so fast. A look at the research trail shows people might have had their reasons to think otherwise. Blanket ridicule as “horse paste” is just gaslighting and manipulative propaganda technique.
An NIH research paper from 2020:
A five-day course of ivermectin for the treatment of COVID-19 may reduce the duration of illness
Ivermectin in India’s most populous state Uttar Pradesh, with over 200 million inhabitants:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=india+covid+uttar+pradesh+ivermectin&ia=web
Then there’s the Africa correlation:
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=ivermectin+covid+africa+correlation&ia=web
Another NIH paper: Covid-19: the ivermectin African enigma
Rational approach: argue and show that further research had opposite results, if that is indeed what happened…
Emotional, psychologically manipulative approach: politicize, polarize, equate receptivity to ivermectin use to Bad Things (Orange Man) and Dumb People (Deplorables 2.0) We Here Are All Smarter Than, etc.
OK... now that all the proponents of Ivermectin have
had their say here, I'd like to say that I hope the ivermectin crowd takes the time to look at all the links I provided in a post above about the rapidly growing concern in many states over ivermectin poisoning. Plus I hope that this article also gets read here and taken seriously. The science behind Ivermectin and Covid 19 is still extremely shaky no matter how many anecdotal stories are posted.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-02081-w
gjohnsit- I totally agree with your opinion piece here and hope that there will be more rational, science based and balanced articles on this site regarding this issue.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Could you please stop with the insults...
Do you understand that you are insulting this site and it's members when you post statements like this?
It's arrogant and condescending.
Was it an insult?
It sounded more like a challenge to me.
Yes, it was an insult...
and I'm getting sick of it.
JtC... you know that I am a big fan of this site
and regard it as one of the only ones I would even bother to defend. But I also hope that you might see that the constant bombardment of pro-Ivermectin posts and videos and etc. etc. is a bit on the heavy side of the scale.
My observation is that the issue of Ivermectin has not demonstrated itself to be scientific enough to be promoted the way that it has been, and that such promotion is beginning to have a negative effect on overall public health, as the links to the poisoning concerns that I posted demonstrate.
I did not call out anyone personally using any personal insults and only voiced my wish that there would be more posts like this one by gjohnsit.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
The positive Ivermectin posts here are nothing compared to
the constant negative assaults from all of corporate media. Unfortunately, those assaults have been very effective at demonizing Ivermectin.
I beg to differ.
The promotion of IVM has been so effective that we have now seen poisonings occurring in my state and in others. And you know what? Every time I have posted links to information about IVM studies being pulled for poor science methods, or studies like the one in Brazil of 400 people that showed no benefit with IVM, I get splashed with the same old You Tube "IVM is great stuff" and claims that the pandemic is done in India because of IVM.
Some of these postings are traceable to right wing sources, which is kind of a surprise considering the political bent of most people here on C99.
IVM might someday be proven to be useful, but there just isn't the science needed to get there at this point.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I'm curious
what you think of the results from India after they started using Ivermectin that lookout posted in his comment here? Does that not show that it does work since the death rate plummeted?
Also there have been 59/61 peer reviewed studies that do show that it works if started early enough.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Sigh...
Not that I think you'll really read this, but here goes..
https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/2021/05/26/bmjebm-2021-111678
Now the ball is back in your court.... I have tried to find proof of the claim that India has beaten this pandemic with Ivermectin and have not found it. You know what I mean.... not some little article. I want to see a big headliner from the major Indian newspapers that says they beat the virus with Ivermectin.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Your link does not address the use of Ivermectin in India
It looks less like an analysis, and more like a rationalization. I don't care if someone thinks it can't be working because the dosage isn't as high as what worked in vitro, I care about what the actual results are.
I did read it
But I have found many more peer reviewed studies on that shows it’s effectiveness. Lotlizard posted a few up thread and both CB and Pluto have also done it.
India is suing The Who over it. This is from India.
Many doctors have testified to Congress about its effectiveness including in Texas, but YouTube scrubbed the videos.
I am not anti vax and had all I needed as a kid and then a few more when I worked in the hospital, but I do question the safety of the Covid ones. They have not been thoroughly tested, most vaccines got tested for over a decade and the control group was unblinded and given the vaccines so there is no control group to compare results to. Why they did that is a mystery and unbelievable. It invalidates the whole thing IMO. I cannot get them because of my current health issues. My body is already under a lot of stress and I’m having more tests to find the cause. Just an FYI for where I’m coming from. I’m not anti vaccines.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
The claim has been, and I've seen it repeatedly, that
India is out of the pandemic woods as a whole country due to IVM usage. So until I see that big old headline confirming this claim in some major Indian newspaper, pardon me if I remain skeptical.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
Then why are they suing?
and why aren't you addressing that? It looks to be from a New Delhi site. From it:
National institute of health:
Of course there are plenty of articles that state it's bullshit too. Google is not reliable since we have known for years that they will strangle the truth if that is what the PTB want which they did when they changed their algorithms to censor alternative websites a few years ago.
Fauci and his friends are working on 'making' something similar which they can then charge and arm and a leg for. I give it six months before we start seeing it. Believe or not. I am not interested in changing anyone's mind, just pointing out that there is evidence that it does work. Since I can't take the vaccines if I get sick it sounds like it would be worth it for me to give a go. It's either that or die or worse...
On a side note the media is going after Rogan for using 'Horse paste' cuz he wasn't vaccinated and got sick. One article I read said that he was vaccinated. Since being vaxxed doesn't keep one from getting infected or spreading it, just not dying as much for now I see no reason people shouldn't take the 'human' form of it if their doctor says they should.
We've been lied to for years, but people now trust everything the MSM media says? HUH?
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Why don't you simply look at the published results?
The following has the US and India compared with vaccinations versus death rates. One factor could be what each country has done pro-actively - such as how and what they treat patients who are at risk or who have actually contracted COVID-19. One country uses prophylactics and the other requires you to stay at home, preferably by yourself and wait until you have difficulty breathing (one should not wait too long to ensure you will be able to actually make that call). Which country would that be?
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/covid-vaccinations-vs-covid-death-rat...
To be honest, looking at the graph makes me wonder if India's death rate will skyrocket like the US has done when they get more vaccinations done.
And you wonder why there is vaccination hesitancy in this country?
FYI
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Ball back in your court
Another Government website. It works.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33278625/
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Have any of these reported poisonings
resulted in a single death? I have been unable to find any report of a fatal ivermectin poisoning. I have no doubts that there have been overdosing errors resulting in ER visits and perhaps admissions for detoxification. Veterinary syringes contain enough to dose a 1,250# animal for intestinal parasites. If a foolhardy person were to ingest that entire amount I would expect there would be unpleasant consequences, but I have not read of any recent confirmed fatalities. At least not yet.
All medications should be given under the direction of a licensed practitioner in dosages appropriate to body weight and purpose. This can, and often does, include off label conditions. State pharmacy boards have begun instructing pharmacists to refuse to fill ivermectin prescriptions lacking a non COVID diagnostic code. In these days of greatly reduced vaccine efficacy against the Delta variant even a fully vaccinated person working with a licensed physician and a valid prescription may not be able to acquire ‘human’ ivermectin for prevention or treatment of COVID. Some will go without the drug, but others will look to alternative sources. A few will make unfortunate choices with veterinary products and inappropriate doses. But how many of the many breathless reports of ivermectin overdoses and hospital admissions actually result in death or significant permanent harm directly attributable to ivermectin?
Very few, if any, I suspect.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
@ovals49
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
So being poisoned doesn't count unless someone dies?
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
No one said *that*.
The argument here is that the risks of improper use of Ivermectin have been greatly overblown by a hysterical media, egged on by Big Pharma.
It ought to be quite alarming that the Western world, and in particular the USA, has bet the whole farm on vaccines for prevention/limitation of symptoms, and has nothing left in its arsenal for treatment.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I did find an ivermectin overdose fatality.
Link
The citation for this single case was a research paper from 1999, long before COVID19 reared it’s ugly head.
The recently debunked press blitz about Ivermectin overdoses clogging OK hospitals is an extraordinary example of a concerted effort to suppress and malign a remarkably safe FDA drug approved for HUMAN USE.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
I'd certainly lump so called lockdowns with the rest
I've yet to hear of anyone being locked in their houses. Nowhere in the US have people been restricted from going outside, driving around, shopping for groceries, visiting friends, etc. Frankly we'd of curtailed viral spread a lot faster if we had.
China did it and it worked like a charm.
The coffee shop/restaurant/bar crowd only knows how to socialize via buying stuff and having other people wait on them, so they whine and cry. Around here blue collar was overflowing with jobs, heck many of us never missed a day as we were considered "essential". Service jobs in restaurants became deliveries for take out and paid shoppers at groceries.
This covid thing was just a little mini pandemic, a warning, and we failed.
Oh, and it wasn't just right wing refuseniks that weren't into the vaccine, at first it was also lefty foodies and health fanatics. Like they saw a comeuppance for all the McDonalds folks who should have gone vegetarian long ago. Thankfully most of them followed the polarization of left-vaccine, right anti vaxxers.
What is your basis
for lumping anti-vaxxers into the righties group? Just thinking about a small representative group on this site, are you saying they are righties? Like, the ones fighting for medicare for all and high taxes for the rich? Stopping evictions? Going Green? Lower the age for Social Security? Pro-union?
I have never understood the association of vaxxer left, anti-vaxxers right, when Trump himself is a vaxxer.
Still cannot fathom how that characterization came about.
It seems very manufactured.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Fears about possible vaccine effects on menstruation & fertility
https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2021/09/lack-of-a-vaccine-mandate-become...
Young women nurses see Covid cases from the front line — if they thought getting the vaccine was a simple decision, wouldn’t they be the first in line? But a lot of them don’t and aren’t.
I know two that quit rather than get the vaccine