Something to Think About
I went down the rabbit hole and got lost.
Then I found this:
https://consentfactory.org/
he Road to Totalitarianism
People can tell themselves that they didn’t see where things have been heading for the last 17 months, but they did. They saw all the signs along the way. The signs were all written in big, bold letters, some of them in scary-looking Germanic script. They read …
“THIS IS THE ROAD TO TOTALITARIANISM.”
So after reading this entry I went back in time to view other writings by cj hopkins.
Anybody want to discuss where he might be right and/or where he might be wrong?
The impetus for bringing this out is the emotional response from certain quarters when trying to discus facts on the ground about this narrative.
Some background; I’ve been told pointblank that the facts don’t matter, it’s not about facts, it’s about how I(they) FEEL! Just Try bringing facts and critical thinking to a feefee fest. That shit Won’t end well. People shaming you(well,Trying to in my case), putting the health and well being of All of Humanity on your(my) shoulders.
GTFOH with that Shite!
I guess I should give some disclaimers here:
I’m Not anti-vax. Anyone that’s been in the military and sent overseas has to walk the Gauntlett of airgun injections; a double row of attendants armed with pneumatic injectors loaded with Who Knows What and you’re Required to take them all(this being the military, Yo).
And I’ve made that walk Three times, Basic Training and two overseas deployments.
Fundamentally, I got questions. In this new era questions are verbotten.
Just a few of the questions I ask:
In 2019/2020 flu season, 38 million case of flu around the world. 2020/2021 flu season? Less than two Thousand.
What?!?
If I’m in good health, no underlying conditions, no co-morbidities and the vax was Never Meant to Prevent infection Or Transmission- Why should I take it.
I still haven’t received a plausible answer.
Now the CDC comes out and admits it’s basically useless as a prophylactic against the disease, it will Only mitigate the worst aspects of an infection.
Why should I take it, again? No rational response, just a bunch of ‘slut shaming’ to browbeat holdouts.
A lady with her kid coming out of the subway with her mask on Improperly and six(6) cops take her down Hard and arrest her for that!?!
An old woman out on the street without a mask on(outside!) gets jacked up and covered in paint by vigilantes.
People on the twatter openly calling for the De-capitation of the vax reluctant.
Don’t believe me? Go look, instances like this are Not too hard to find.
Now, I’m NOT saying Nobody should have used this vax. Not my call to make for others. People have health issues that could put them at risk of death or debillitation from this virus. I’m NOT qualified(nor would I Want to be) to tell people what they should do in their lives.
Shouldn’t we reluctants be given the same accord?
Comments
Flu
So what you're saying is that the measures taken for Covid-19 -- masks, social distancing, school shutdowns, remote work, etc. -- reduced seasonal flu to a minimum. That's good to know.
Actually edg
I’m Not saying anything like that. I’m wondering where those went.
Let me break it down; is your assumption correct? That would be cool if it was.
Were they rolled into covid stats, padding, if you will? The world(most of it) goes into lockdown of one sort or another. But the lockdowns force everyone to do the one thing guaranteed to spread influenza; close packed living spaces, don’t go outside, etc.
Now, influenza Didn’t spike in these conditions, yet C19 did spread under these circumstances. And from what I can ascertain, the symptoms are very similar unless your immune system goes into overdrive and attacks its own.
And If your take on this is correct, we’ve been doing flu mitigation/prevention Wrong for the past 40 years?
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Occam's Razor
Rather than lower flu counts being the result of some wild-eyed conspiracy theory, the simplest explanations are the ones I laid out in my comment above and 2nd comment below. I'll also add the fact that there were a record number of flu vaccinations this season to the mix. Here's an article from the CDC about the 2020-2021 flu season: https://www.cdc.gov/flu/season/faq-flu-season-2020-2021.htm
Common Sense
Applying common sense and intelligence to the problem, one should first examine the most common locations of community spread of flu, namely schools and the workplace. Since most schools were shutdown, the normal passing of flu from child to child and subsequent spread to their relatives at home didn't occur. Since many businesses were shutdown or allowed employees to work from home, the coworker to coworker spread of flu was also greatly reduced.
In addition, as mentioned in the CDC article linked in my other response, a record number of flu vaccinations were administered.
And speculatively, it's possible that Covid virus simply outcompeted flu virus in latching on to prime infection sites in human bodies, thus reducing the ability of flu to spread. First come, first served as it were. In addition, it's likely testing stopped after a positive Covid test, thus flu was not tested for. There's no law of nature stating one can't be infected with more than one disease at a time.
Chris Martensen
is worth a listen.
[video:https://youtu.be/NRP-_2v8mSQ]
[video:https://youtu.be/68B1gtPnGlA]
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I’ve been
watching his show fairly regularly .
Good info simply presented.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
I wonder if there is data
on how many people got flu shots.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
In my area they weren't offering it
and haven't been for a year. Just COVID available.
Anecdotally
in my circle, no one got a flu shot last year, and no one got the flu either.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Same with me.
Flu shots disappeared, as did flu. Surely, the number of flu shots is out there somewhere.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Censorship and suppression of discussion
are not helping people make informed decisions about vaccine risk/benefit evaluations. It’s so skewed to vaccine only promotion it’s ridiculous. Dr Robert Malone describes his experience on the subject.
Throttling free discussion of evidence based COVID treatment options is the worst form of anti-science authoritarianism. It will only get worse without some serious pushback. Left, right, center; we’re all about to lose something precious.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
That’s a big
part of the reason I wrote this.
The suppression of effective ‘alt’ therapies, or even Discussions of said therapies.
Jimmy Dore was on Joe Rogan and talked about his long haul symptoms after his second shot and how he’s still not back to ‘normal’.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
For Malone the censoring started
In April 2020 and was multi facetted, impacted his livelihood and his reputation. It’s a chilling account, as it is designed to be. Way beyond a slippery slope.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
More anecdotal info
I have noticed personality changes in some of my vaxxed friends. They are not behaving like the friends I have had for decades. It could just be they are aging, or some health issues, but they are not the same person they used to be.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The ufo's are proceeding according to plan.
The body snatching is begun.
Lol! Perhaps!
I was paid a visit by a couple yesterday. The husband, I have known him about 18 years, could not hold a conversation. His wife had said he had some health issue, but would "snap back". Now, I called him as he went for his final colorectal exam to give him courage, so we all share all details. Nobody will say what his health condition is, so suddenly it is private. Or something.
Very odd.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I’m not
gonna go That far, but I have noticed a stridency/self-righteous attitude pervading any discussion of this topic. People talking At each other, yet not communicating With each other.
I’ve had a couple of bad experiences with people I was friends with.
Unfortunately the past tense as of now.
And no one wants to discuss the ‘new data’ coming out without setting Someone’s hair on fire.
Let alone the data that’s been out and suppressed as fake news(Bret Weinstein, FLCCCA, etc)
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Please see my reply to BoB above.
I am talking about more than a change in attitude.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
My Bad
got it.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
No, this is not The Road to Totalitarianism.
That's nuts.
I'm skeptical about any essay that begins with a picture of Auschwitz, but I read the thing.
It's silly and simple-minded, full of exaggeration, lame analogies and bad history.
There are no systems.
There were totalitarian governments in the 20th century, for sure, but those governments were products of their time, not examples of a type of system. There is no "history of totalitarian systems" because they only ever happened once, in the 20th century. There are no warning signs that Hitler is coming back because Hitler isn't coming back. There will never be another Auschwitz.
You don't want to get vaccinated ? OK.
But is it really necessary to justify that with all this sophomoric shit about "systems" ?
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Okaay,
so the Romans weren’t totalitarian for the times? Or the Egyptians in their time?
Was not the British Empire in its time Trying to be? Hence the Revolution?
Serious questions. Sure, they didn’t have the panopticon that we enjoy, that didn’t preclude them from trying,imo.
Weren’t any of the monarchies during the Middle Ages totalitarian for their day?
Shoot a wild game to feed your family and lose your life.
Can’t marry whom you wish to without consent of the king.
Whisper something derogatory about the king(or queen) and lose your tongue.
As for No Systems Existing, I find evidence to the contrary surrounding us daily. Maybe not planned, but definitely implemented in an Ad hock manner.perhaps.
Or do I miss your meaning on no systems.
As for silly or sophomoric, it seems like you won’t be bothered by detailing your thoughts.
I hope I’m wrong.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
No, no, no and no.
"Totalitarianism" is a 20th century concept referring to certain 20th governments.
These governments are called totalitarian because they sought to control, or did effectively control, every aspect of their subjects lives. In former times there was usually a priestly class that managed the spiritual aspects, not a political party.
But suppose you are right and that, say, the Pharaohs of ancient Egypt were totalitarian dictators. How, then, did the Egyptians start down the "road to totalitarianism" ?
Was is really by the persecution of some minority ?
Was there an Egyptian equivalent of Auschwitz ?
This makes no sense. That's what I mean by bad history.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Weeelll
Was there an Egyptian equivalent of Auschwitz ?
People look at them to this day, one of the seven wonders?
Those blocks didn’t cut, transport and assemble themselves.
And what’s wrong with looking back at history with modern eyes and finding parallels?
It might be a twentieth century concept, but a rose by any other name. . . ?
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
The parallels don't exist, that's what.
Think fresh, think clearly, don't be bound by 20th century pop culture,
And don't invoke Hitler to make some lame point about vaccines.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I've got a few problems with that, being
"totalitarian for their time" seems to me to mean not being totalitarian but having some similar characteristics. What I see in most of those cases is hereditary dynasties. If not conquered, they were generally overthrown by lesser nobility or the equivalent thereof, or somebody in the same lineage but not the primary line of descent. Egypt and Rome were somewhat special cases but the European kinds, for example, somewhat relied upon the lesser nobility for support and supported them in turn. They also didn't generally give a shit what the hoi polloi did, including marriage. though they might have tried to apply some pressure on the nobles as to various things, including, in some rare instances, marriage. Hunting on the royal estate, or some ducal or baronial estate would get you thumped, but not in anyplace not bound up in an estate. Rome also didn't give a shit what people did until after the merger of Church and State back around 380 or so. Even then, the peasants were given a fairly free hand. Generally, before the mercantile era, peasants worked and supplied lesser nobility or equivalent, who then passed a bit on to the king, caeser or empereor, and as long as they keep on doing their job they could do whatever, though eventually the church imposed restrictions on various things.
As an aside, "totalitarian" is something of a crude concept, somebody wanted a word that would encompass Nazism, Mussolini's Fascism, Franco and Stalin, and that was it. In detail those were very different governments, and, of course, Stalin and Mussolini both fell seriously short of the theoretical and conceptual underpinnings of Communism and Fascism. They probably should've stuck with "dictatorship" and let it go at that.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Hello, I guess you missed these parts
This was in the side bar
I will leave you with this and you can ponder the merits of whether we are on the road to Totalitarianism or not.
I would say we've already passed the design and testing phases, and are now on the road of implementation.
Just remember the Anthrax scare in 2001. Ultimately it came from our own Labs, not some terrorist or "foreign nation", it was from the US. After all, we're the greatest nation on the planet, it's always some foreign nation's fault.
Gee, I read somewhere that because the permafrost is thawing, they found a virus thats thousands of years old.
Just imagine some idiot with a CRISPER, fucking around in their own, private, for profit medical lab. They screw something up, it gets out of the lab, and now we have a vaccine resistant virus or some other whacky virus on our hands.
Did anyone think about that?
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
Good eye
and thanks for the ZB quote!
How’s the new digs working out?
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
OK Flu. Edg has it right IMHO.
BASICS:
We've known all along, both as to the seasonal flu and the common cold. Wash hands early and often, Cover your mouth and/or nose when you cough or sneeze. Proper diet and liquids. If there are folks coughing and sneezing, avoid them. We've also known for ages (post Lister, I think, but not too long after) that masking up reduces the risk of getting and the risk of spreading airborne illnesses . Also avoid crowds because crowds increase the chance of contact or close proximity with somebody contagious. So a great many people were exhorted to and badgered into adhering much more closely to those behaviors and flu incidence declines.
FLU SHOTS
Covid somewhat straddled Flu season, Which is fall/winter. By Jan 9 2020, tons of flu shots had already been dispensed and many continued to be until first stay at home orders. Don't know when of if you normally get one, but, in the bay area, all the usual places were dispensing them in fall/winter 2019, CVS, Safeway, Walgreens, etc., plus clinics and all that. Beyond that, the bay area is a bit odd becasue some ungodly percentage of the population has Kaiser, and it's a big mother population too. Kaiser is an HMO, and ergo enormously into preventive medicine, they nag the hell out of everybody, even non-members to get vaccinated. When the first stay at home orders came out, they arranged for drive-thru flu shots at their facilities, I went to one, long fast moving lines of cars winding around the parking lots.
LOCKDOWNS
This never happened in CA,, and I doubt very much that it happened many other places. The whole "LOCKDOWN!!!" hobgoblin became a major talking point but the reality was not what the talking point alleged.
There are "close packed living spaces" with whole extended families living in a tiny apartment or dwelling, but I don't think that they are that widespread. The maximum stay at home orders in CA, which were portrayed by all those pushing the Lockdown hobgoblin as among the strictest out there actually encouraged people to get outside. Essential workers went to work, essential businesses (very broadly defined) stayed open. Trips for essential activities, like grocery shopping, getting hardware and household and pet supplies required masking up and the stores had to restrict the number of persons in the facility at any time and try to enforce "social distancing" (6 feet) Outdoors, if not solo, mask up and maintain 6 foot social distancing. The average person living in the average living conditions was not subject to being close packed, as in a subway, bus, lunch hour urban sidewalk or eatery. I personally know nobody not in some care facility whose living quarters could legitimately be described as "closely packed". and most non-institutional living quarters involved quasi-stable groups, like a family. Semi-isolation by family group is far safer and less likely to enhance the spread of the flu or anything else than frequent mingling with large numbers of random people who've been indulging in random wandering and mingling, which is the whole point of avoiding crowds. Living closely with the same small group every day is vastly safer than riding the subway every day, because the point is to avoid outside contagion sources.
Just FWIW.
be well and have a good one
EDITED TO INCLUDE HEADING FOR LOCKDOWN SECTION
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
When did this happen???
and is there a paper or announcement I could try to track down?
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
You could
Read the original EUA at the cdc website?
I’m looking at the leaked info out of cape cod, depending on how the percentages are read 3 of 4(74%) or 4 of 5(79%) of the 460ish testing positive were fully vaxed with an average of 86(?) days since the jlaet jab. Unless I mis-read it.
The Israeli health minister reports 50% of the people testing positive were fully vaxed.
Or did I screw that one up as well?
As to the flu, I’m confused by your answer. You’re saying on the one hand it’s safer in small family units being locked down, but there wasn’t really a hard lockdown so people could still mingle enough to spread the covid(better than 85% of covid infections happened among households) and flu just wasn’t a factor this year.
I’m having difficulty with this. 38 million to (essentially) zero in one year?
I think I should stay out of rabbit holes.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
The cape cod info seems to contradict a ton
of other info out there, and then I wondered immediately "vaccinate" pr "fully vaccinated"? I'm still seeing a lot of info that in most places the vast majority of the new infections are the unvaccinated. There could be a lot of explanations for that deviation, so who knows. I mostly ignore Israeli information because its definitely not an ordinary situation.
As to covid v flu, forget the mingling and/or lockdown aspect. The normal flu isn't covid any more than it is the common cold. I'm looking at this like two different species, take all the proper precautions and such to minimize flue spreading because you're afraid of covid, and you will minimize flu. Covid may be more virulent (I don't know), but as I watched this farce unroll, even I could note that a ton of the covid local outbreaks were from "superspreadre events" and among those either definitely, or probably not following any of those precautions. Sturgis was totally wide open for the annual sturgis thing and the photos showed few masking, and probably tons of machissimo 'ignore those weenie rules" tyPe behavior. Bingo, there's a covid outbreak. CA has geographic locales dedicated to a handful of attitudes and beliefs that drive the populations not to take any appropriate precautions, and, sure enough they had worse stats. Did some of those folks also get the flu which was masked by covid? Possibly. can't say.
Transmission between family members only happens if somebody brings it home, like from school, work, or a buffet or such. Everybody in commuter intensive areas knows that children on public transit are disease vectors. If they aren't in school or on transit, then they aren't bringing it home for mom to give to dad, etc.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
If nobody,
especially Old People who are particularly vulnerable to the flu, ended up without a flu shot(no prophylaxis, even at 50%) AND we stop testing for it(no capacity to do so?) how do we know? Lack of data all around.
Putting our hands over our eyes to make the scary thing go away like a little kid Does Not Make It Go Away.
38 million to Zero is pretty hard to accept in Any situation.
iow, we won’t find it if we don’t look, and Nobody looked? Is that all it takes to eliminate it? /s
Oh and I think I mis-spoke aboutthe Israeli thing, I believe he was talking about the New outbreak.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Except that you present some sort of phantom reality there.
I know it is only anecdotal as far as you are concerned, but I know for a fact that a great number of people in the bay area got flu shots. Also, and more to the point, hand sanitizer was flying off of the shelves here, indicating a lot more of the type of hygene that would prevent the transmission of the flu. Ditto surface cleaning chemicals and wipes, and there was tons of masking, back when retail masks werre scarce, boatloads of people made their own as well as making them for distribution to others. Not N-95, but like all of the other precautions, it is a question of degree, especially when looking a the ordinary annual flu. OK. Also, there's this:
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/fluvaxview/dashboard/vaccination-dashboard.html
Of course, that's from the CDC, so arguably all a lie and not data. According to jwatch in December 2020,
They also tossed in this tidbit:
You might also take a peek at this: https://abcnews.go.com/Health/flu-numbers-year-due-higher-vaccination-ra...
which includes this bit:
I know that there are sources out there actively "pushing the paradox" and it makes some sense to read, watch or listen to them, but not exclusively, IMHO.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
PERSPECTIVES ON THE PANDEMIC
(Previously posted in wrong diary)
Thanks!
Tried to access but my server is trippin’
Again.
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
Mind providing some more context for this?
I wish I could say it was "hard to believe" you could've been told this "point-blank", but I'd still really like to know who/where/when/why. Anybody who REALLY says this and means it has committed intellectual suicide, and is no longer any more a person than a tarantula infested by one of those godsawful parasitic fungi is still a tarantula.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
To whom was that comment directed?
n/t
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Tall, Bald and Ugly, of course
I quoted him, and my comment was not a reply to anyone else's comment.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
ok.
I do sometimes lose track...
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Without Too much
detail, lets just say in my social/work circle and leave it at that.
Some otherwise Good People that also expressed the view that they don’t care what right wing policy Biden enacts, at least he’s Not Trump.
Save your rant partner, I’m Already there.
edit for clarity
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march
How awful. "FOX-Blues"
Did you try pointing out that this "person" has become everything it used to hate? As you know, what you're describing is the Post-Reagan/Atwater/Gingrich GOP mentality to a T.
Maybe the person is still inside, and can still be salvaged by a shock of self-awareness...maybe try digging up some of the best of The Colbert Report, like those protesters who fight SWAT-teamers armed with mirrors?
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
Thanks for
feedback folks.
Although I might have exasperated some people, I hope I didn’t piss anybody off.
I’m trying Not to(for a change)
Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .
Explain Bldg #7. . . still waiting. . .
If you’ve ever wondered whether you would have complied in 1930’s Germany,
Now you know. . .
sign at protest march