The Disillusionment of the Deplorables
ICYMI the excellent Twitter thread Azazello posted in last night’s EBs or don’t like reading tweets here it is in article form. It covers the Russia Gate scam and the 1/6 capital event and election shenanigans.
Really worth a read.
The folks at American Mind wrote up my tweet thread as an article. https://t.co/AyoBN6TRTe
— MartyrMade (@martyrmade) July 10, 2021
The Disillusionment of the Deplorables
I’ve had discussions at this point with a wide range of Trump supporters who believe the 2020 election was fraudulent. I think I can extract a general theory about their perspective. It is also the perspective of most of the people who were at the Capitol on January 6, and probably even that of Trump himself.
Most of these people believe some or all of the various theories involving midnight ballots, voting machines, etc. But what you find when you talk to them is that, while they’ll defend those positions with information they got from Hannity or Breitbart or various other sources, they’re not particularly attached to them. If the theories were disproven, it wouldn’t disprove the fraud for them. That’s because there are far more important facts—actual, confirmed facts—that shape their perspective. Here they are:
A Glimpse Behind the Curtain
To begin with, the FBI and other intelligence agencies spied on the 2016 Trump campaign using evidence manufactured by the Clinton campaign. We now know that all involved knew this evidence was fake from Day One (see just for one example: this memo from July of 2016 by former CIA director John Brennan).
Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Tuesday declassified documents that revealed former CIA Director John Brennan briefed former President Obama on Hillary Clinton’s purported “plan” to tie then-candidate Donald Trump to Russia as “a means of distracting the public from her use of a private email server” ahead of the 2016 presidential election, Fox News has learned.
We’re getting additional insight into Russian activities from [REDACTED],” Brennan notes read. “CITE [summarizing] alleged approved by Hillary Clinton a proposal from one of her foreign policy advisers to vilify Donald Trump by stirring up a scandal claiming interference by the Russian security service,” Brennan’s notes read.
Many of the people who believe in fraud are Tea Party people. The types who give their kids a pocket Constitution for their birthday and have Founding Fathers memes in their bios. To them, the intel community spying on a presidential campaign using fake evidence (including falsified documents) is a big deal. Everyone involved lied about their involvement as long as they could. This was true with everyone, from Brennan and Representative Adam Schiff—who were on TV saying they’d seen clear evidence of collusion with Russia, while admitting under oath behind closed doors that they hadn’t—all the way down the line. In the end we learned that it was all fake. But we only learned key information—including that the DNC paid for the manufactured evidence—because of a court order. James Comey denied on TV knowing the DNC paid for it, when we have emails from a year earlier proving that he knew.
At first, many Trump supporters were worried there must be some collusion, because every media and intelligence agency wouldn’t make it up out of nothing. When it was clear that they had made it up, people expected a reckoning. When that didn’t happen, they shed many illusions about their government.
We also know, as fact:
1- That the fraudulent Steele Dossier was the sole evidence used to justify spying on the Trump campaign,
2- That the FBI knew the Steele dossier was a DNC op,
3- That Steele’s source told the FBI the info was unserious, and
4- That they did not inform the court of any of this and kept spying.
….
Everyone knows that, just as Don, Jr.’s laptop would’ve been the story of the century, if everything about the election dispute was the same, except the parties were reversed, suspicions about the outcome would’ve been Taken Very Seriously. See 2016 for proof.Even the courts’ refusal to hear the fraud case gets nowhere with those who have seen these truths, because the opposition embraced mass political violence. Trump supporters say, with good reason: What judge will stick his neck out for Trump knowing he’ll be destroyed in the media as a violent mob burns down his house?
You can listen to most of it too:
Tucker Carlson Reading @martyrmade's Viral Thread On Why So Many Trump Supporters Have Questions About The 2020 Election & Their Distrust Of The Mainstream Media pic.twitter.com/HY6MECgd3s
— The Columbia Bugle (@ColumbiaBugle) July 10, 2021
How much of this is true or not you can decide. I agree with most of what he said because I knew most of it long ago as did many others here. But just like the shitlibs didn’t want to hear about Hillary’s blood soaked legacy they didn’t want to hear that democrats did rig the primary against Bernie and that not only their lawyers admitted it in court, but DWS admitted it too and it’s why she got canned. They also don’t see how this could rebound on them. Censorship never stops at those you don’t like.
I think anyone who saw through that and then Russia Gate were able to see through the other propaganda and not fall down the rabbit hole like so many others did. We also know that Obama was a lousy president who continued most of what Bush had put into place. And that Trump wasn’t doing much different than Obama did except he did put people were he wanted them and democrats made noise, but….
I wrote this last night but I think it goes here too:
Of course this is happening under democratic power because that’s what they have been doing. The owners saw how easily Bill Clinton got Bush’s agendas through so they switched plans. Republicans would cut taxes, deregulate everything ASAP and what not, but Trump would not have been able to get through the police state buildup because his supporters ‘might' have objected and dem ones too.. But Dems know that their supporters won’t object now that they are the ones doing it. They got proof when they saw what Obama got away with.
If Bush or Trump had done this I’m betting that they would see why it’s a very bad idea. They will write about the new domestic terrorism laws Biden is pushing for, but so far not one has questioned whether new laws are needed after we saw the vast US defense goons stand down and not use what they had. As well as information on how there were government agents embedded with the groups. But they are too busy cheering about all the Trump supporters being locked in isolation for waltzing through the capital building after quietly walking past cops that said/did nothing to stop them. And after they saw what they did they were allowed to leave and go home. Not one person was arrested for it then. But who needs civil liberties anymore when white supremacists are roaming the country.
Absolutely amazing!
Federal government to pay millions to create database for Capitol riot evidence – media
The effort to prosecute the rioters has become an expensive one, as the federal government is now spending over $6 million to a company to compile a database of footage and documents related to the January 6 event.
The Justice Department is forking over the whopping $6.1 million to Deloitte Financial Advisory Services, which will put together videos, photos, social media posts, and other documents related to the Capitol riot in a database for the prosecution, Politico reported.
The information gathered will also be for the defense attorneys of the hundreds facing prosecution, as the evidence will eventually need to be turned over to them. Prosecutors have said this is the largest criminal probe in US history, making the timing of turning over evidence difficult.
Deloitte Financial Advisory Services is described as a “litigation support vendor with extensive experience providing complex litigation technology services,” by prosecutors. The contract first awarded to Deloitte last month is part of a larger $1.5 billion department budget set aside for information technology litigation support spending.
Just for the record I detest the removal of the Civil War statutes. Robert E Lee's statue was removed from Charlottesville today. 4 years after the event when the media once again took Trump’s words and twisted them. After he said that there were fine people on both sides he said that there is no place for violence from either side. Good luck finding the quote. I’ve looked and will give a free scritch to Sam for anyone that can find it.
Comments
Thank you, Snoopydawg!
So the Justice Department is the new Praetorian Guard with Comey as Sejanus. I hope he ends the same way.
Regretting all the years I've wasted on politics. My old neighbor in the '50s was right. "It's all fixed!"
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
We are so slow to learn aren’t we?
Lots of people told me that voting doesn’t change anything back when I was pestering people to vote for HisHeinous. I think that’s a fair description of Obama and his legacy. See that included link. I think it was ggersh who posted it here 1st. Great read with tons of links inside it. But I finally saw through democrats game during Zero and Bernie’s treatment sealed it.
Heh..I followed someone to an old essay here and phoebe in Louisiana posted this.
It came from Steven D's essay on the Joel Ossoff loss back in 2017.
It’s funny because democrats just ran him again and he still stands for nothing. People were bribed into voting for him. Remember?
"$2,000 checks will go out the door immediately if Ossoff and Warlock win Georgia."
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Anyone else laughing at them?
It’s on Lawrence Welk.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thanks for the h/t ...
I got it from Lambert Strether at naked capitalism.
He thought it was important and so did I. It's a must read.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Excerpt
It was more dangerous than Qanon because a political party, it’s media mouthpieces and intelligence agencies people were pushing it for 5 years. 6 now since they are keeping both Trump and the capital in the news daily. And Russia of course too.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
It's not just shitlibs
Tucker Carlson is calling for monitoring our classrooms.
DeSantis wants to keep a database on people's political views
Obama still spouting words of wisdom during troubling times
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Needs to be repeated.....
Fuck obama
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
lol…
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Visiting teachers ?
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Noneyourfuckingbusiness.
I'm having a party and they're not invited.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
-- sigh --
This is overthink. Believers can always cite "reasons" for their position/belief. Convincingly shoot down one of those "reasons" and they'll pull out another reason. Sometimes even a fact that is mostly irrelevant to their belief. Yes, in 2016 a few people in the FBI illegally spied on a few people in the Trump campaign, but it didn't change the election outcome. (Not outside the realm of possibility that Biden's campaign was spied on in 2020.) However, it's the oppo research, false campaign narratives, and media megaphones that can change election outcomes. Nor is it unusual for a majority of the media outlets to sing the same song. Happened in 1972, 1984, 1980, 1988, 2000, and 2008. Generally the song that's in sync with the mood of the electorate. That wasn't true in 2000 and Gore was attacked unmercifully in the media for imagined failings. Even that wasn't enough as there was substantial (we'll never know how much) election fraud in FL. Even that fraud wasn't enough -- hence, one of the more egregious decisions by SCOTUS.
In 2016, the obsessive media focus on Trump during the primaries (not positive but not all that negative) propelled him to the nomination. (If Sanders had been handed that much attention, he might have secured the Democratic nomination.) Changing their tune for the general election was too large a flip to be effective with the electorate. In 2020 Trump didn't need the MSM for the nomination; so, the MSM could be consistent throughout the election cycle, Trump bad which was also consistent with his record in office.
If there was any general election fraud in 2016, it wasn't in the three deciding states, PA, MI, and WI. 2020 might have been the least fraudulent ever because of the need to accommodate the COVID-19 risk which made voter suppression more difficult and voting easier.
Trumpsters could no more accept his 2020 loss than Clintonistas could accept her 2016 loss. But here's a difference. The latter donned pink pussy hats and marched in DC on inauguration day, 1/21/17. The former stormed the capitol on Jan 6. A similarity is that the people in both groups were childish sore losers.
As for the statues of the civil war traitors, they should never have been erected. Their "cause" was neither right nor humane. Plus, they lost the debate. The existence of those statues, erected some decades after the fact, have perpetrated the notion that there was something honorable in their "cause" and that facilitated a continuance of anti-AA racism. High time they should all come down.
Marie, I agree with you about the statues of
Civil War Southern Heroes.
They were, by definition, traitors, as secession was NOT legal.
They killed American citizens.
I have heard over and over, that removal erases history.
Well, I have said it before, will say it again: works of art, such as tremendous statues which glorify and beautify and enlarge an individual who happens to be a traitor to the US, have a place in art and history museums. They should have never been placed on courthouse squares. Or inside courthouses and state government buildings.
I doubt any soldier anywhere doesn't admire Gen. Lee for his early brilliance on the battlefields.
Remember him for that in some museum. And remember, his goal in the Civil War was to continue slavery to keep the plantation agri/economic system in place for whites.
The man took horse whips to his slaves. It is archived.
Fuck him.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
While I agree with you and Marie
it’s the reason why Lee's statue was removed today. Many are tying the statues to white supremacy not civil war traitors. That was the headline on HuffPoop today. It was to keep them from….whatever the article said about them. Yes I think they should be moved to museums because we can’t erase the history. But it’d be really nice if our schools actually taught us true history and not the propaganda I got. Indians bad. Period. Not much about how we wiped them out by genocidal ways. The stories coming out of Canada and the Catholic Church. The latest school closed in 1996. I never learned that we stole kids from families and forced them to be whites. Again I wonder how many things I believe that are totally false?
Oink oink oink oink…lol..
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Whites owning slaves
is the exemplar of white supremacy.
It is the talk of secession as a right that always diverts attention away from the root cause of the desire to own slaves and not pay white people to work in the fields instead.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
And we have replaced slavery with prison labor
Hershey’s couldn’t find enough people to work for them so they have turned to the prisons for labor. A few other companies are doing it too. Grrr! But during reconstruction lots of people turned to hiring prisoners to do the work instead of paying a living wage.
If you missed this when I’ve posted it before it’s worth a read. It’s on why the wages for food workers is still so low.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/opinion/minimum-wage-racism.html#clic...
Apropos of nothing:
If the country had been captured way back then, I’d say that Ben knew what was coming.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
The Civil War was about the
continuance and expansion of slavery into new territories and states. There's no purer form of racism than slavery. Thus, statues of those traitors are monuments to racism. Statues of living and once living people are always in glorification of that person.
(I was amused by the tearing down of a statue of Queen Victoria in Canada last week. Apparently there are lots of them in Canada as well as statues of QEII.)
True that
In any form and yet we are still doing it across the country and world and no one in power seems to give a damn. Look at how people are treated in countries that let companies keep their workers in prison like conditions that should have been shut down decades ago. The triangle shirt factory genocide just happened again in Bangladesh where people were locked inside and burned to death. Congress bitches about the Uighers in China, but they have no problem with Apple paying people low wages and keeping them locked up in their factories. And again I’ll bring up prison labor that is happening right now in the country where people are brave and free. Puke!
Yes bringing down Victoria was sweet. Good gawd. Humans have treated humans like less than dawg poo forever and I think it’s time for humanity to grow the fck up!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I agree with you Marie, that the statutes should come down.
Snoopy, I assume you want the statutes to remain standing as a reminder of the horrors of our history, but I imagine the sense of 'national pride' will always remain strong in many who aren’t well informed enough to view them with understanding, or within context. So in my mind, they have no reason to stand since they won’t reinforce anything productive. Why not put them in a newly constructed museum in honour of the horrors of american history … you know, sort of like the terrifying wax museum.
I agree that they are a source of contention for many
But you are right that many see them for a sense of pride because they cannot comprehend how evil slavery was. Or acknowledge the fact that blacks in America have never been treated fairly. Many people still see them as ‘dumb brutes' and again I think a lot of it is because we weren’t taught true history of the crimes our country has committed against them. If someone was taught that 2+2=5 how long would it take them to relearn math? Americans are very propagandized through 12 years of education. I’m betting though that other countries don’t teach people of their crimes either.
Yes I can go for that.
I wonder if people from the states that
succeeded(?) left the union were taught differently about the civil war than those in northern states? Maybe it was glorified?See my comment to otc. However I have no problem with people pulling down the statues of Catholic priests or Columbus. Yeah my mind confuses me too. You ought to live with it.
It’s just that I think some are taken down for the wrong reasons. But then I’m still trying to figure out why the war was fought in the first place. To destroy the economy of the south to get them on board with capitalism? The idea is there, I just can’t form it. No I’m not losing my mind, just have lots of stress which affects my mind and thought processes. The joys of TBI.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thank you snoopy for your reply
I find a lot of these issues confusing as well, and imagine they are confusing to most open minds. I don’t think anything or anyone should be monumentalised in an egalitarian society.
I’d definitely like to know when you figure out the ‘why’ in the first place ; ).
I often wonder whether it’s all about education and its delivery.
Education plays a huge part.
While in some eras universities portrayed the Civil War as all about the right to secede, as in mine, other in eras universities taught it as economics.
Both the secession and the economics was about whites owning black slaves.
That this is the era that universities get to the root of both the above aspects is better late than never.
Take race away from the Civil War argument about secession, take race away from the economics of plantations and working black slaves, and you would have a raceless war over capitalism.
Some of my university history professors argued it was purely industrialist north against agricultural south with NO MENTION of slavery at all.Those were the basic history courses. It was not until I got into the upper level courses for history majors that we actually studied the white over black data.
It is high time we get the full picture. Why be ashamed when we now know the truth, and can admit the mistakes made, and go forward in enlightened thought and behavior?
If Germans can admit that Hitler and German soldiers killed Jews, why can't we follow suit, admit past mistakes by our country?
Where is the perfect country? What country fixed their problems without admitting they existed in the first place?
And Snoopy is correct about the Native Americans. We are foot dragging to admit our genocide.
Custer was no hero, and the slaughter of buffalo to starve those "Injun's" was and is celebrated.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Thanks OtC for a concise and direct history lesson,
from both a southern and universal perspective.
It's necessary for the victims to receive acknowledgement of the horrors practiced by its government and people before a constructive discussion and resolution can be found, and for the public to consider.
Thanks, janis b
I am remembering my visit to Custer's Last Stand Museum. He was violating treaties, he was leading the illegal wagon trains onto Native American territories. And they fought back at that place where they had the high ground, and Custer entered low ground. A dufus. Classic battle tactics. High ground wins. Battle 101 class.
His horse survived, and was preserved by taxidermy. I got to honor the horse, had no use for anything else in that museum.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Yes, Custer and Andrew Jackson
need to go as well. Although it's tough to white out a POTUS. One problem for me with Jackson is that he wasn't born into a slave owning family. He was buying after Washington had died willed his slaves to be freed after Martha died. Then there was all the theft, destruction, and deaths of natives from his military campaigns.
See my reply
to janis b above. We are on the same page about Custer. But PLEASE leave his horse alone! That horse was AWESOME!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Heh..
Li have been posting this a lot lately. But if they will treat one group that way then there is no limit on how they will treat others. Look at what we are doing in Yemen and countless other countries. Hell congress is doing it to many of us right gd now because they think they aren’t worth saving. 11 million people are at risk of evictions because congress didn’t think that they should waste money on them and besides the owners want to steal more homes from people already pushed to the brink. How can you treat anyone like they don’t matter? How can you play by rigged rules to make yourself richer when you know so many people need help? Yeah I’m talking about Nancy Pelosi’s insider trading where she just made millions! And think about this. It takes millions in donations to win a job that only pays $174,000 a year. Something is very wrong when the system is that corrupted.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
That is quite an understatement
"Something is very wrong when the system is that corrupted."
'good' education is quite a precious commodity, that I don't think pelosi is investing in.
It's not that difficult.
People aspire to the "good life" for themselves and minimize, ignore, deny what the "good life" costs others. Compare and contrast the first three US Presidents. In thoughts and words, Jefferson was the most democratic but personally the biggest hypocrite. He knew better but wasn't about to sacrifice his "good life." He honored his promise to his wife not to remarry after she died. Instead, for many years he raped his dead wife's enslaved half sister. No evidence that his wife had any moral qualms about owning her half-sister. Washington came to know better, but would only do the right thing after he died. His step grandson, George Washington Custis, who he and Martha raised, also knew better, but like grandpa didn't act on his large Custis slave inheritance until after his death. He only had one child, a daughter, and appointed his son-in-law as his executor. Custis' wishes were honored by his executor, Robert E Lee.
Sadly true
Thanks for filling in some history for us. Slavery wasn’t mentioned much during my education. Plus I grew up very segregated. I had 2 blacks in my class and not that many in the whole state let alone school. Not many minorities either. Things have changed since then, but I was absolutely shocked when I went to New Orleans in my early 20's.
Thanks for starting the discussion on the statues too.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
CA schools when I was
growing up were mostly segregated due to housing/income patterns. Mostly white but many Latinos and a few AAs. What wasn't tolerated was racial slurs and intolerance. While I can't recall the specifics, I know that Civil War history focused on slavery as the primary issue/dispute. Looking back I can recall that about the same age I read the romanticized southern history (Gone with the Wind) and on my own watched the March on Washington live. I cheered on the protestors, but still liked that damn book.
New Orleans late teens for me. I wasn't unaware of segregation but seeing it up close for the first time was still shocking and horrifying. Had a few brief conversations with some wonderful AAs, but kept my distance from whites. Vowed never to return to that place and haven't.
I'm getting very tired of this Victim Feminism shit
especially when it's combined with Toxic Reverse Racism.
It's rapidly getting to the point where mutually consensual heterosexual relationships are declared "impossible", because there is always an imbalance of power that is decreed to invalidate the concept of "consent". To put it more bluntly, it's getting to the point where ALL male on female sex is defined as "rape".
We do not know what the actual relationship was between Thomas Jefferson and Sally Hemings. We have been told (by her son Madison, as told to him) that it started in Paris - not at Monticello - and in Paris Sally was legally a free woman, if she chose to claim that status. Again according to her son Madison, she was at first reluctant to return to Virginia with the Jefferson family, and it was only promises of special privileges for herself, her siblings, and any children she might bear, that persuaded her. That sounds more like negotiating a cohabitation agreement than anything else. (Or do we "Believe Women" only when their stories fit a particular political narrative?)
As to bulk manumission of slaves during one's lifetime, the example of Robert Carter III put paid to that idea. Carter gradually freed most of his slaves (and hired some of them to work for him as free tenants), but his neighbors objected so vehemently (possibly including threats of tar and feathers) that Carter was run out of the state and never returned.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Understand -- sort of.
I did hesitate before typing the word rape. However, given all that's known and can be known, it's the correct word even if it's not what Hemings would have used. There's no evidence from either Hemings or Jefferson or their children that it was other than a slave master relationship. The absence of overt force or violence for their conjugal relations isn't evidence of consent but only knowing one's place and resistance is futile. Plus, she had her mother as her guide.
There may have been a love match between a white Captain Hemings and an African slave woman (name lost to history, often referred to as Susanna) who gave birth to a daughter, Elizabeth/Betty. Whatever the circumstances of that relationship were, the record only picks up with Susanna and Betty as slaves of a Francis Epps, the father of Martha Epps who married John Wayles and gave Susanna and Betty to his daughter and her husband. After the death of his third wife, Wayles fathered children with Betty (who had children with a black man before then) and Sally was the youngest. Wayles' indebted estate had to be split between Martha Jefferson and her half-siblings from Wayles second marriage. However, Betty and her children may have been viewed as separate and belonged to Martha from her mother. No reason to view Betty's relationship with Wayles as other than master and slave. As light skinned (half white) Betty and her children weren't field slaves and comparatively were treated far better and promise of future freedom encouraged submission/compliance.
Recognizing that many women throughout history have had few choices and made the best possible bargain for themselves and their children doesn't change the fact that they were oppressed and forced to submit to sexual relationships neither desired nor pleasurable. (It wasn't a Rhett Butler rape of his wife who became happy after the sex.)
So you DON'T "Believe Women" when it doesn't suit you.
What I figured.
If Sally had any negotiating power - and according to her son, she did - then there was at least an implied consent.
It may have been one of two negative choices (the other being free but alone and friendless in a foreign land), but, by the only account we have, it was her choice.
And I wouldn't belittle her for it the way you do.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Thank you for your comments on the TJ/Sally Hemmings
relationship. I get so tired of reading comments and essays calling for the removal of TJ from the history books because he "probably" raped Sally Hemmings. There is absolutely no proof of that, and I, like you had read her son's comments on the situation.
I'm also against statue removal... all of it. What I would rather see is changing the narrative on the accompanying plaques that come with the statues. Wouldn't it be lovely to see the plaque next to Custer's statue list his war crimes and racism? By the way, he had three native american women as his consorts, and from what I read, they mourned him when he died.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
To attack me,
you've inverted the meaning/message of "believe women" when a woman reports being sexually assaulted and raped. It's the counterweight to the long held notion that women lie about such attacks. (Well, except in the US when the woman is white and claims she was raped by a black man. Then the woman has total credibility even when the facts that can be known doesn't support her story.)
There's no shortage of credible information from the 18th and 19th centuries about the treatment of enslaved women by their white owners. So, history supports that slaves taken as mistresses had no choice. (Legally, they had no rights.) The odds that Sally Hemings was unique in her relationship with Jefferson are extremely low. (As we don't have her words, "believe women" is non-operational.) TJ didn't even see fit to free her formally after his death. TJ's family and descendants denied any relationship at all existed between the two.
As until quite recently, it wasn't accepted that a woman could be raped by her husband. Yet, it did happen.
I choose not to place much weight on a few circumspect words from the 19th century by one of Hemings' children. The circumstances of his birth, being enslaved, and denied paternity aren't easy to live with. And to be clear, nothing I've written maligns Sally Hemings. Quite the opposite - I'm maligning TJ with the full understanding that his behavior wasn't inconsistent with either his family and conventional arrangements at that time. But he could have made many different choices and didn't.
TJ and Hemmings may have been mutually attracted
to one another in France. However, by legal definition, slave women in the US had no right to deny sex to their owners. It was, in this country, non-consentual by legal definition. It was legal, having sex with the slave of your choice, not the other way around. In that time, it was not rape. In today's world, TJ having sex with a 16 yr old, free or not, is aggravated sexual assault. Whether France or Virginia.
A crime subject to life imprisonment.
Glad he had his fun and wrote up some good declarations, some balance of powers, as most child rapists just aren't that productive.
my first visit to Monticello was mind blowing. He was an amazing architect. Then I went into the slave quarters, and came away forever holding him in contempt.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Oops
Dupe
Should have thought of this earlier.
Sure would be great if congress decided that climate change is threatening us right now.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I know it’s difficult to resist in general,
but please, at least to me, resist from posting images that have anything to do with you know who. Half smiling, more cringing.
Ok
I won’t post the picture of Jill on vanity fair. It’s quite funny tho….
You sure?
Okay…
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
It is quite funny snoopy
One for an 'essay title contest', don't you think?
I’ve heard that more than once
I think that’s a big part of the reason for it. I’m still trying to find a book that explains it easily. But I’m betting that people in the south learned a different history than those in the north. I often wonder how the loss of so many young men in the south affected the area. They lost more than the north because the north hired immigrants to fight for them. But both sides lost a generation of young men and for what? As Rhett said to Scarlet, "what does it matter? In a 100 years no one will even know what we were fighting for." Amen, Rhett Butler.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
The southerner fighting against
imported northerner fighter makes the South's argument to diminish the north's purpose for following the Constitution.
The Revolutionaries enlisted foreign soldiers to fight England. It is a thing, until it is not a thing.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
And Vice Versa
I recall a made for TV movie, "The Crossing", about Washington crossing the Delaware on Christmas morning to attack the hung-over Hessians on Christmas morning (Germans' main celebration on Christmas Eve not Day).
At the end a text scroll gave statistics about how many Hessian mercenaries were employed in America, how many were killed, how many returned to Europe and how many stayed to become American citizens. IIRC, that last figure was a majority. The Hessian mercenaries were mostly dirt poor peasants who enlisted to take King George's shilling to get escape from their poverty. They had no political cause and didn't want to return to grinding poverty at home. Politicians like to talk about immigrants coming here for freedom and some did (and do). But most just wanted to escape European (and Latin American) poverty. On a personal note, that's why my Sicilian and Austro-Hungarian ancestors came (although my maternal grandmother may have just been in love with a prole, her parents seem to have been land owners). The Calabrian ancestors were escaping a failed revolution. Still,"Stupid Americans" was the favorite expression of my Sicilian great-grandfather according to my father.
Edited for spelling.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
"The War of Northern Aggression"
That's what a (liberal) white friend from Mississippi told me it was called down there.
I guess they were all innocent then those evil Northerners attacked them for no reason.
True, it was Carolina that did the first treasonous act. But Mississippi hopped right on the bandwagon. Yes, I'm ignoring bleeding Kansas, because those were unofficial terrorists (both sides, BTW).
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Choose your illusion
Thanks for the summary and links, Snoopy. In a different and better world you could have been an ace reporter, if you'd wanted to be. I like to imagine you doing the job in a jaunty little hat.
It is astonishing to me that any reasonably intelligent people still take any part of our elections seriously. Just fucking astonishing. The ruling class has been caught cheating every which way including loose, repeatedly, and they are barely even trying to cover it up anymore. They are playing right in everyone's face.
To me, a lot of the exaggerated "IT WAS YOU" type finger pointing about who cheated who in the last couple presidential elections looks like more of a "let's you and them fight" maneuver from the ruling class than anything else. They know good and goddamned well they've all worked hand-in-glove to fuck us all over and they're still making a full court press while they're trying to keep us divided and desperate enough to pit one chunk of the working class against another one. It's a shame how many people are going to fall for it because they don't want to let go of their faith-based beliefs about Democrats and Republicans.
Thank you
How sweet of you to say that.
I’ve updated my equipment recently to an iPad.
Right on.
Hillary went beyond opposition research to go after Trump. She got Obama to say that Russia interfered in the election and after Trump was sworn in democrats pulled the biggest psyop in history as far as I know. That our intelligence agencies were involved in disrupting a presidency shouldn’t have been so shocking since they have a history of removing presidents that they can’t control and not only over the pond. Who was really behind the assassinations of JFK, MLK AND RFK? Not Oswald, ?, or Sirhan Sirhan.
That so many people believe that there’s a hairy difference between the two parties anymore is just mind boggling. I wonder if people would take part if they knew the role Israel plays in our elections at both federal and local levels? They didn’t just get congress to censor people involved in BDS, but many governors have passed laws against it. At least one person has won their case against having to agree not to take part in it if they get hired. It might have been the woman in a southern state or someone like Eva Bartlett…or someone like her. Been awhile since I read about it.
Then we have the people who really set the government’s agendas. Banks, big business and of course think tanks and never forget the council on foreign relations CFR or the trilateral commission or hell even the Bildeberg group or the Davos crowd? We don’t get to vote for any of them.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Interesting how the thread morphed to the Civil War
rather than the media and election manipulation your essay supports.
Edit to add this interesting take on the civil war...5 min
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BK1cyndeuNs]
Certainly the civil war is also a manipulative tool. It is often referred to as the war of northern aggression. However read the letters of succession. It was clearly about slavery. As the thread covers, first nations genocide was also an early shameful episode which continues. Not only in the poverty imposed on the rez, but in the pipeline construction over their lands granted by treaty. Slavery has merely morphed as well. After the war with share cropping, and now through prison slave labor as snoopy mentions above. Most prisoners are POC. The most impoverished communities around here are black and Hispanic neighborhoods. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
As to the statues and monuments, seems most are honoring war. In fact I think WWI statues are the most common in the land. That was a pretty stupid war too. Should those be removed? I don't know, I would rather see worker coops developed, community farms and gardens established, and productive public works. We as a nation seem fixated on division. We could use these testaments to the glory of war to educate people about the nature of US imperialism and addiction to war. But we know that will not be allowed.
The original essay demonstrates the CIA is controlling the narrative. Keeping people at odds allows them to more easily control us. The statues are a pretty good wedge issue. Recall I live next door to Marjorie Taylor Greene's district.
Interesting essay and thread.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Thanks for the video
Concise and on point.
Spot on!
We see it and were some of the first to understand what they were doing and it’s weird that others do not. Maybe some Trump supporters do see it now that Trump didn’t end the wars or put Hillary in prison, not that he could, but to not hold anyone accountable for the crap they put him and the country through. Unless he was in on it. Since someone here mentioned that he might have been playing patsy and set people up at the capital I’m thinking more that maybe he was and possibly during his whole tenure. He with help from democrats did push the division they are using to pass more draconian laws against us. Biden’s domestic terrorists bill sure leaves a lot of people vulnerable. Don’t disagree with the government and you will be fine.
Interesting that after blacks fought on the side of the union they were still considered not fully human. The war ended in 1865 and it took well over a century to pass the civil rights act which still didn’t go far enough. And today so many people will not acknowledge the racism in police shootings. It’s just that blacks are more prone to violence and crime in their minds. All they need to do is mind the cops and do what they are told to. Like the guy who cops played with for over 30 minutes making him do one thing after another and killed him anyway after making him crawl to them. His shorts were coming off and when he went to pull them up he was murdered. Cops got away with it of course. They could see that he was unarmed and there were enough of them that they could have cuffed him at any time. Instead they treated him like he was a mouse and they were cats. It’s beyond belief that they were cleared.
Trump is gone so let’s get the two women to act like him and keep people focused on those naughty republicans. Take a look at the wreck list this morning. It’s time for daily republicans. 2 diaries on how well the Harris-Biden administration is doing.
No $15 wage.
No canceling student loans.
No public option.
Keeping the line 3 pipeline going and through First Nation’s territory and against their treaties.
And so much more.
The revolution remains incomplete.
It’s been an interesting discussion.
Again I recommend reading the article on why minimum wage for restaurant workers is still only less than $3. It was set during reconstruction to keep whites from paying them enough to live on. It hasn’t been raised since IIRC.
Thanks again.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Thank you...
for the essay and work. Here's another nice commentary from Aaron (with Lee Camp)...12 min
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euw-cAaN_jE]
Only Aaron Maté has interviewed the man at the center of the Russiagate conspiracy theory -- Konstantin Kilimnik.
I featured Aaron's interview with the Icelandic journalist who broke the Assange witness retraction in the WW today which you might enjoy too.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Well, can't resist: How a war can be civil is beyond me.
sorry.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Speaking of statues and removing them...
have you seen my hometown's awesome statue?
Bismark Statue
When my mother walked by with my little brother after wwII (my brother was may be six years old), he asked my mom, if this statue is 'Der liebe Gott' (God himself so to speak).
Imagine we would remove God himself (Bismark impersonating God) directly here in beautiful Hamburg
That would be a real revolutionary idea, right?
https://www.euronews.com/live