Thursday Open Thread ~ Archaeology edition ~ Christopher who?
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With special thanks to enhydra lutris, who actually did most of the thinking behind this morning's open thread
I know, let's start buyin' the place with beads ...
Archaeology and trade goods:
A lot of archaeology involves following the progress and distribution, by whatever means, of various kinds of trade goods. Certain types, for example, were brought to the Americas from Europe and then were spread out across the continent both by European traders and by trade between and among various indigenous populations. The routes and trading centers highlight some of the times and places where, in addition to the exchange of the various types (and ages) of goods, but also the exchanges of cultural elements occurred, especially where the trade was between indigenous peoples of different cultures.Certain types of goods such as glass beads, especially those of Venetian origins, spread far and wide out of Europe and across the known world, as then known, at various times and velocities, out the silk road to China in medieval times, for example. Venetian (and other) glass beads are a common find at sites along the eastern seaboard and in the eastern half of the Americas, most of which were manufactured in the 1500s or later.
Such beads have also been found about 110 miles above the Arctic Circle at a site. called Punyik Point in Alaska. They were found in close association with some twine made from plant fiber. The twine and some carbon from a nearby hearth was carbon dated to between 1443 and 1488. Put another way, these artifacts were deposited in north central Alaska between 1443 and 1488
So, um, 1492, what? Something, something, something, 1492, but who gives a carp? The first European trade goods to reach North America came via the silk road, through China and then into Alaska before Columbus even managed to finagle a fleet out of Isabella, let alone sail west and "discover" anything. That explains the title of my source document: Pre-Columbian European Beads Found In Alaska; American Archaeology, Spring 2021, Vol. 25 No. 1. American Archaeology is a quarterly publication of The Archaeological Conservancy - www.archaeologicalconservancy.org.
So, the thread is open, go for it.
Comments
Then there is the viking evidence
I guess the difference in reference to the "discovery" of North America lies in the fact the Vikings did not claim the *new world* as their own?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinland
Interesting topic philly.
Thanks for the OT!
question everything
great comment
there is evidence that the Vikings were indeed here.
I can not cite specifically, but weren't the remains of a Viking ship discovered in Minnesota?
NYCVG
There's a story to that effect, but the source isn't reliable
It's from the World News Daily Report, which is notorious for making stuff up, the more sensationalized the better. (Also it places the "find" in Memphis, Tennessee.)
There certainly is a replica Norse ship on display in Moorhead, Minnesota, but the key word here is "replica". https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/hjemkomst-viking-ship
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Aha
thank you for this clarification.
The best thing about coming to Caucus 99 is that there is always something to learn from the participants here.
NYCVG
We can't let a
silly thing like "archaeology" get in the way of generations of careful conditioning of the Amurkin peeple. Gawd, no. Suppress those statements, brush 'em off as conjecture, deplatform those archaeologists. It can't be science if it involves dirt, amirite?
Columbus or Bust, bay-bee! Wait, what? Oops. Carry on...
It's like the old joke a lawyer friend told me: "If the law isn't on your side, argue the facts. If the facts aren't on your side, argue the law. And if neither the facts nor the law are on your side, pound the table and shout a lot...".
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Good morning philly et al. Happy Thursday.
Already 3 days into June and I've only finished half of my May chores/projects. Clearly not looking too good. OTOH, California will allegedly more-of-less fully reopen on the 15th so, which is good news, especially for the vaccinated among us, though I may still wear my mask under certain circumstances.
I have to be very circumspect this weekend because my local hardware store is having a big sale (get your fathers day gift here now!) and I am something of a tool junkie. While not a dad it is still dangerous for me to venture in there right now, even though we have numerous projects that might demand that I go get some supplies. Hmmmm.
Ah well, I have some bread dough that has finished its overnight rise, so I'd best get on with the rest of the process.
be well and have a good one
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Behind the Scene in Israel Today
Bibi and his Likud Party are doing their best to sabotage and delay a Knesset vote to seat the New Government.
https://www.ynetnews.com/article/r1ukyNU500
The headline from the online Jerusalem News states,
" Joint List backs move to Replace Knesset Speaker, Paving Way for a New Government."
The significance of this is that the Joint List has 6 members. That is a greater number of Knesset Members than Bibi can hope to peel off from other Party members.
The Joint List is 6 Arabs joining the 4 Arab members of Ra'am, already in the New government coalition. They ain't going nowhere. Waving goodby to Benjamin Netanyahu unites them more than their dislike of Israelis.
A vote to confirm the new government could be held as soon as Monday. That vote will end Bibi's 12 year reign.
Inshallah.
NYCVG
Discovering N. America
seems to have happened long before Columbus. After all, the people who were already here came from somewhere. The dates for their arrival keeps getting pushed back. Some evidence points to around 30,000 yr's. ago, in the middle of the last ice age. The ice was miles thick and blocked the land bridge so the theory was people travelled the coasts. Unfortunately with the ancient coasts underwater if there were encampments or villages they're sunken now. Saying this to point out people explored and had the skills to travel great distances thousands of years ago.
They did one thing different, they didn't look back. They went to make new lives for themselves. Columbus was part of the capitalist clan, extract the resources and send it back to Europe, to "civilization". Gold, timber, slaves, whatever could make a buck.
Capitalist?
Raiding/pillaging others for their wealth long predates anything you could call 'capitalism'. Spain at the time of Columbus was a mix of feudalism and private enterprise - Spain in the colonial period is more correctly described as mercantilist than capitalist. That brought in a lot of wealth and fueled imperialism, but domestic enterprise suffered while increased wealth was concentrated at the top.
Mercantilism v. Capitalism
Yes, guilty
I play loose with the term "capitalism". I guess I see little difference in the various economic systems and the damage they can do when power flows into the hands of a few. Kings, priests or robber barons, what's the difference to the people that get exploited except the name of the economic game being played. Power and wealth always seems to flow one way.