Open Thread 18 MAR 21


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The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

Winston Churchill

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Welcome all to another edition of the Open Thread. Haven't much to bring to the table today, so just sort of winging it.

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Picture of Winston Churchill at sea by war is hell store.
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A place to post your observations
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QMS's picture

Hope this day finds you well.
Am off to do battle with the boats.

Carry on!

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10 users have voted.

question everything

Lookout's picture

Several tornadoes hit the state yesterday and last night. Fortunately they missed us.

Got another 1.85" of rain bringing the total since Monday to 6.65". However this is the first rain we've had all month. Water is running everywhere on the mountain. You can hear many waterfalls when you step outside this morning. I dread seeing the road. It was holding fine yesterday, but most of the rain last night came down in a couple of hours. Oh well I've got the box scrape hooked up, but it will be afternoon before it soaks in enough to grade. The joys of country living as we say.

On a positive note, spring is exploding and there is a flush of color and blooms. Just a couple of days of winter left and they will be relatively cool here with about 60 today and mid fifties tomorrow for highs.

Hope all goes well with the boats QMS. Lots of maintenance with 'em.

Have a good one everybody!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout
Flood

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8 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

lotlizard's picture

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/17/sperm-whales-in-19th...

It’s like a Gary Larson cartoon — “Spread the word whistle, this new human variant is baaad news.”

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usefewersyllables's picture

in the Covid-vaccine queue, so I'll be heading off to get my first dose of the Pfizer jab tomorrow, and the second on April 9th. My wife will be getting her first on Saturday, and her second on the 10th. So this household will be fully participating in the experimental gene-therapy process soon. Woohoo, I guess. Who knows what will happen next?

Have a great day, everybody...

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9 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

@usefewersyllables
I'm holding out for it here. Especially since it seems the mRNA vaccines are totally ineffective against the new strains and require new vaccines.

Will the Fed's ever spend a few paltry millions on developing treatments in addition to the billions for vaccines?

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11 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

usefewersyllables's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

the J&J jab, for sure. However, beggars can't be choosers, as screwed-up as the rollout has been here- nobody who has the J&J vaccine available will admit to it, apparently. Among the 20 or so waiting lists I got myself on, the choices were Pfizer for most and Moderna for just a couple. So I'll just screw my courage to the sticking-place and hope for the best that I don't develop any autoimmune issues, or get dead from it, or whatnot.

Bottom line: I'd rather have the credential that says that I've been poked twice and can therefore participate in society again, than not have it- so there's not much choice but to take the risk... It's a sad state of affairs.

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11 users have voted.

Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Granma's picture

@usefewersyllables prefer to get Moderna or Pfizer vaccine. Detroit's mayor turned down thousands of doses of J &J vaccine saying he wanted the best for his people.

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@Granma
Trials submitted to the FDA, and efficacy numbers, are not comparable. Pfizer and Moderna trials did not include any of the variants currently of greatest concern simply because the variants had not appeared yet. The later J&J trials did include a significant number of the variants, which undoubtedly contributed to a lower overall efficacy score than they would have had against only the early Wuhan strain.

We’re all part of an huge ongoing vaccine trial. Only with hindsight will we have a perspective to compare with real world data. Any of the available vaccines we are being offered in the US are better than no vaccine, as far as we have been told. Certainty and indubitable facts, will be in short supply for the foreseeable future, I’m afraid

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“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

@ovals49
I don't trust the US government as far as I can spit.
And I spent half my working life working for them.

Between Trump/McConnell and Biden/Pelosi/Schumer, I trust Trump more. And I know Trump is a lying sack of shit.

They are so urgent about my getting vaccinated. Why? Because they value my life? BAWWWWAAAHHHH!
Good One. Tell me another joke.

I can't get over the number of people here that hate the USA but trust the US Government.
I love the USA, but hate the crooked scum that front for the real owners.

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12 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
on what passes for official news propaganda and information infomercials these days.

I do not hate the US, but I surely do hate the way our government subsists on disinformation, force and blatant lies. We deserve better.

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6 users have voted.

“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

snoopydawg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

I do abhor what it does. I do not trust the good either. And don’t forget that Kamala told the world that she won’t get the vaccine because she didn’t trust Trump.

“I would not trust Donald Trump. And it would have to be a credible source of information that talks about the efficacy and the reliability of whatever he’s talking about. I will not take his word for it,” Harris answered.

It’s a stink fest between her and McCain's spawn.

“So she’s expressing skepticism about the vaccine under the Trump administration,” McCain said. “A lot of Republicans I know are expressing skepticism about the vaccine under the Biden administration, which is why this has been so dangerous that this has become so politicized. Both sides are equally responsible for this.”

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/meghan-mccain-kamala-harris-vaccine_n_605...

Somehow this was only tenuous, not something she actually said. My gawd they’re going to run out material soon with all the cover they’re giving president Harris for doing the same damn things Trump did.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@The Voice In the Wilderness I am stuck here.
I always try to improve it, but always to no avail.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp
I'm pretty sure your answer is "Np", if not "Hell no", but only you can answer that for sure.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness n/t

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

@on the cusp
"Np" was a one key off typo for "No"
In case there was any doubt.

My own disdain for the government starts at the top with the politicians, descends through the revolving door upper management, lessens for the ass-kissing middle management, pretty much gone for direct management and changes to respect for non-management. Some lazy foul balls like in the (R) narrative (but more likely to to be WASP than minority), but mostly hard working much abused people trying to do a job for their country.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Granma's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness efficacy is just not as high. Researchers are proceeding with developing a booster n case it is needed later, since the more virus spread and cases they are globally, the more variants will appear.

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@The Voice In the Wilderness
It’s true that the J&J (Janssen) trials had significant portions of British, South African and Brazilian variants (B1.1.7, B1.351 and P.2). Efficacy was less with the variants, but still significant. The current Brazilian variant of greatest concern is the P.1, which was not present in these trial data.

Both Pfizer and Moderna trials were completed before these variants appeared so there is no variant data from the trials. Recent reassurances that they are “expected” to be effective with current variants are from in vitro tests using a “pseudo-virus” in place of the actual variant viruses, so real world data may or may not correspond to the in vitro data.

There is a recent paper in nature.com (Antibody Resistance of SARS-CoV-2 Variants B.1.351 and B.1.1.7) that goes into some details of variants and efficacy of vaccines if you want a full immersion experience including some stark warnings.

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“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

phillybluesfan's picture

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Few are guilty, but all are responsible.”
― Abraham Joshua Heschel, The Prophets

QMS's picture

@phillybluesfan @phillybluesfan

survived a few hurricanes in GOM and western Atlantic.
Scary shit, those churning walls of water.
Steering with throttles to keep the nose pointed to the next
crushing blow. Oh wow. Running light without cargo. Lost a
couple crew to injuries. A big freighter would not do so well
as we did in running out the storms. Turned my hair white.
Made a pact with god, since been broken...
If you get me thru this alive...
I'll never run a boat again. HA!

PS. grew up in MI, was there for the wreck.
Too young to learn but got educated anyway.

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8 users have voted.

question everything

@QMS
I'm not a boater but I think that's like "... I'll never drink whiskey again." or "... I'll never run with loose women again." or "... I'll never bet on a horse again."

Gotta do what you gotta do.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

QMS's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

gluten for punishment
Wink

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3 users have voted.

question everything

lotlizard's picture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sylvana_Simons

Simons went and started her own political party and now it looks like it got enough votes to put her in the Dutch House of Representatives, as the seventeenth party to garner at least one seat.

That’s what’s nice about the Dutch political system. Other countries talk diversity but they don’t really mean it. In the Netherlands any enterprising person and their friends can start, not just a rock band, but a real political party in their home or garage, and take a swing at making themselves heard on a national stage.

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A new study suggests ways humanity can protect the oceans;

"Ocean life has been declining worldwide because of overfishing, habitat destruction and climate change. Yet only 7% of the ocean is currently under some kind of protection," said the study's lead author Enric Sala, an explorer in residence at the National Geographic Society.

"In this study, we've pioneered a new way to identify the places that -- if protected -- will boost food production and safeguard marine life, all while reducing carbon emissions," Sala said. "It's clear that humanity and the economy will benefit from a healthier ocean. And we can realize those benefits quickly if countries work together to protect at least 30% of the ocean by 2030."

The report identifies highly diverse marine areas in which species and ecosystems face the greatest threats from human activities. Establishing marine protected areas with strict regulations in those places would safeguard more than 80% of the ranges of endangered species, up from a current coverage of less than 2%. The authors found that priority locations lie throughout the ocean, with the vast majority of them contained within the 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZs) of coastal nations.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2021/03/210317141645.htm

That is an evocative photo of Churchill.
Hope your battle with the boats went well. Thanks for the Satie and the OT.
Take care & have a good evening.

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https://be.linkedin.com/in/geertvandenbossche

Who would appear to know a little something about vaccines, has put out an open letter calling for a halt to mass vaccination for Covid. Not on grounds of efficacy (to the original Covid strain) or safety (not that there are not plenty of concerns there) but because he believes (as I understand it) that the mass vaccination itself will drive the production of variants that, instead of combining greater infectivity with decreased virulence - as is usually the case, may cause deadlier ones.

He is also (I gather) concerned with lockdown measures weakening innate immune response - isolation is known to weaken immunity and if the immune system is not stimulated by exposure to pathogens it starts to shut down or weaken.

Suggest a stroll through the comments to the video where he is interviewed, especially that of "Daniel" about the situation in Israel and mandatory vaccination there (Pfizer)

Quick and dirty summary, but am off to catch the rest of a beautiful (vaccine-free) spring afternoon.

India and Bangladesh win with Ivermectin and HCQ

https://trialsitenews.com/an-unlikely-nation-is-kicking-this-pandemic-guess-which-then-why/

Canadian Doctors Speak Out (and are censored for it)

https://rumble.com/veg3uf-canadian-doctors-speak-out.html

Vaccine Death/Injury VAERS

https://www.blacklistednews.com/article/79388/facebook-posts-back-up-vaers-reports-linking-covid-vaccines-to-injuries-including.html

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@Blue Republic

The article the quote below is from discusses the situation in Israel and considers the claims of Geert Vanden Bossch that the current mass vaccination programs may lead to spread of hotter virus variants and actually contribute to their spread. The experience with the deadly (to chickens) Marek virus suggests that the scenario Vanden Bossch is warning about appears credible and potentially disastrous on a monumental scale.

Article from newsfromtheperimeter.com is here.

Can people who have been vaccinated become super-spreaders of a more virulent and lethal form of the virus?

Yes, they can. They can become carriers of a more deadly strain of the infection and kill hundreds of others they come in contact with before dying themselves. Just look at this excerpt from a 2015 article at PBS. It helps to explain the phenomenon that Atzmon suggests in his observations. The article is titled, “This chicken vaccine makes its virus more dangerous”:

“The deadliest strains of viruses often take care of themselves — they flare up and then die out. This is because they are so good at destroying cells and causing illness that they ultimately kill their host before they have time to spread. But a chicken virus that represents one of the deadliest germs in history breaks from this conventional wisdom, thanks to an inadvertent effect from a vaccine. Chickens vaccinated against Marek’s disease rarely get sick. But the vaccine does not prevent them from spreading Marek’s to unvaccinated birds. “With the hottest strains, every unvaccinated bird dies within 10 days. …

In fact, rather than stop fowl from spreading the virus, the vaccine allows the disease to spread faster and longer than it normally would, a new study finds. The scientists now believe that this vaccine has helped this chicken virus become uniquely virulent... The study was published on Monday in the journal PLOS Biology….

The reason this is a problem for Marek’s disease is because the vaccine is “leaky.” A leaky vaccine is one that keeps a microbe from doing serious harm to its host, but doesn’t stop the disease from replicating and spreading to another individual. On the other hand, a “perfect” vaccine is one that sets up lifelong immunity that never wanes and blocks both infection and transmission.

In recent years, experts have wondered if leaky vaccines were to blame for the emergence of these hot strains. The 1970s introduction of the Marek’s disease immunizations for baby chicks kept the poultry industry from collapse, but people soon learned that vaccinated birds were catching “the bug” without subsequently dying. Then, over the last half century, symptoms for Marek’s worsened. Paralysis was more permanent; brains more quickly turned to mush….

Read’s group started their investigation by exposing vaccinated and unvaccinated Rhode Island Red chickens to one of five Marek’s disease strains that ranged from hot to cold. The hottest strains killed every unvaccinated bird within 10 days, and the team noticed that barely any virus was shed from the feathers of the chickens during that time. In contrast, vaccination extended the lifespan of birds exposed to the hottest strains, with 80 percent living longer than two months. But the vaccinated chickens were transmitting the virus, shedding 10,000 times more virus than an unvaccinated bird.

“Previously, a hot strain was so nasty, it wiped itself out. Now, you keep its host alive with a vaccine, then it can transmit and spread in the world,” Read said. “So, it’s got an evolutionary future, which it didn’t have before.”

But does this evolutionary future breed more dangerous viruses?

This study argues yes. In a second experiment, unvaccinated and vaccinated chickens were infected with one of the five Marek’s disease strains, and then put into a second arena with a second set of unimmunized birds, known as sentinels…. The virus spread to sentinel birds nine days faster if it came from a vaccinated chicken versus an unvaccinated one. In addition, sentinels died faster when exposed to vaccinated chickens versus unvaccinated chickens.

“One way to look at that experiment is that shows vaccinating birds kills unvaccinated birds. The vaccination of one group of birds leads to the transmission of a virus so hot that it kills the other birds, said Read said……

“Our concern here, primarily and foremost, is whether this is going to happen with any of the vaccines that we give to people,” said molecular biology James Bull of the University of Texas Austin, who specializes in the evolution of viruses and bacteria….

To test the imperfect vaccine hypothesis in humans, you would need monitor the vaccine response for either a large or isolated population for a long time. Doing this would allow a researcher to gauge how the vaccine interacts with the virus and if that relationship is evolving. Does the vaccine merely reduce symptoms, or does it also keep patients from getting infected and transmitting the virus?”

Original PBS article here “This chicken vaccine makes its virus more dangerous” PBS

"It is easier to con people than to convince people they have been conned." - Mark Twain

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