Thursday OT -- Thursday's Theme

mjolnir, thor's hammer

Thass right, it's Thor's Day, but it doesn't make much of a theme. Then again, I'm not gonna establish no theme, because I'm just a substitute, pinch hitting for an inning

So for today, I could go with

But, Nah ....

It turns out that there really is a Thursday's Theme by Jove. Well, actually it's by Benny Golson

So, what's our theme today?

THEME: noun, any of the twenty-nine provinces (themata) in the Byzantine empire.

Ahh, but tain't so easy McGee. Byzantium started out as the eastern flank of the Roman Empire, so it is Roman and comes, at some point, from the encampments used by Roman soldiery. They came to be the principle administrative divisions, but started out as land grants of a sort. In the late 6th century all of Rome was under pressure from assorted outsiders and the Sassanid Muslims were giving Constantinople fits. (That's Istanbul for those of you who know only modern history - more later). The long and short of it was that Heraclius, then in charge in Constantinople, gave land to the farmers in given areas who in turn became and provided loyal soldiers for the empire. This system grew to the eventual 29 administrative divisions that were the Themes.

OK, Nomenclature - back in 1930 ...

The main thing is - It's an open thread, so do your thing, got it? Below this point this is a public forum, your forum, nothing is off topic, so go for it

theme or no theme. It'a all on you now, starting in 3 ... 2....

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nobodies business but the Turks..
almost forgot about that one Wink

Am hoping we can entice a few community members
to host Thursdays, perhaps on a revolving basis.

The mechanics are not complicated, just a short essay
with a banner. The open nature of these things develop
a life of their own most times. C'mon people now..

Cheers!

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usefewersyllables's picture

@QMS

Came in to post the same comment...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0JhC3LO0-8]

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

but I'm not sure if there can be such a thing as s solo banter, needs research, that. I see rand bagged the obvious response, though one could interject c'mon everybody, I guess.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Lookout's picture

Got 1.5" of rain last night, so it is soggy here.

Is that the sound of the empire falling?

Byzantium started out as the eastern flank of the Roman Empire, so it is Roman and comes, at some point, from the encampments used by Roman soldiery.

In November of 284 A.D., Diocletian, a forceful Roman general, seized power and declared himself the new emperor. One of his earliest orders was to split the Roman Empire in two. He kept the eastern part and gave the western half to his colleague, Maximian.

Diocletian's decision was bold but practical. He figured that the Roman Empire had simply grown too big over the years to be managed effectively by a single person. In 285 A.D., he named his trusted military friend, Maximian, as a Caesar or a junior emperor, while he himself was named an Augustus or a senior emperor. The following year, Diocletian promoted Maximian to be his equal, so both men held the title of Augustus and ruled the split Roman Empire side-by-side. Diocletian chose the city of Nicomedia (modern day's Izmit, Turkey) to be the capital of his Eastern Roman Empire, whereas Maximian picked Milan to be the capital of his Western Roman Empire. With the kingdom broken into two, Diocletian and Maximian were each responsible for fighting the enemies in their respective territory. As it was no longer necessary to stretch the troops across the entire empire, it was much easier to put down the rebels. Diocletian's daring experiment paid off handsomely.

By 293 A.D., Diocletian decided to go a step further and resolve the issue of succession once and for all. That year, both of the senior emperors handpicked their own Caesar. Diocletian chose Galerius, and Maximian selected Constantius. Galerius and Constantius were like apprentices. They did not sit idly waiting for the two senior emperors to die or to retire. Instead, they were each given a sizable territory and had their own capital. Galerius resided at Sirmium (in today's Serbia), and Constantius camped at Trier (in today's Germany). Diocletian called this new power structure tetrarchy (pronounced "te-TRAR-kee") or "rule by four."

https://www.edhelper.com/ReadingComprehension_42_91.html

To my mind the old Roman empire morphs into the Catholic church...

Roman Senators renamed: Cardinals
Roman Governors renamed: Archbishops
Roman Senator with no territory: Bishop (Code of Canon Law 376)
(Large) Roman Province renamed: Archdiocese

(Small) Roman Territory renamed: Diocese
Imperial Chair of Jupiter where Caesar sat renamed: Throne of St. Peter
Vestal Virgins renamed: Nuns
Pontifex Maximus (high priest of College of Senators) renamed: Supreme Pontiff of College of Cardinals
Pontiff or “high priest ” of a pagan religious order (Zues, Apollo, Diana, Mars, Jupiter, Baal, Dionysys, Pythia etc) same name: Pontiff
A Pontiff (Latin: “pontifex”) means bridge-builder or priest between man and the gods of the underworld.
The Roman Calender and Holy Days of the gods renamed: Calendar Holidays of the Saints
Voice of the gods speaking through Caesar: Ex-Cathedra: Voice of God speaking through Pope
Meeting of the Pontiffs (high priests) of the pagan religious orders renamed: Ecumenical Council of the Bishops

Legal act of creating a god (of a living or dead human, as was done to most of the Caesars) “Apotheosis of the Gods” renamed: Canonization of the Saints

A decree of Caesar (dictator for life): Pope’s infalliable Dogma

https://www.redpepper.co.ug/2014/05/did-the-roman-empire-become-the-roma...

Thanks for the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

enhydra lutris's picture

@Lookout

hole too deep to delve this morning, with many byzantine twists and turnings, as they say. As the man said "oh no, been there before, not goin back round there no more" (Alligator) No less than Constantine made Christianity legal and maybe even cool, though it was a later emperor who made it mandatory.

be well and have a good one

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studentofearth's picture

@Lookout are involved in many of historical conflicts that keep reemerging as seemingly new issues.

The Abrahamic religions refer to three sister monotheistic religions (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) that claim the prophet Abraham (Hebrew: Avraham אַבְרָהָם ; Arabic: Ibrahim ابراهيم ) as their common forefather.

Catholic church power structure morphing from Western Roman Empire. Orthodox church from the Eastern Roman Empire called Byzantine, prior to the beginning of Protestant movement (1500's) in Germany the conflict for territory was between the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Church.

However, it wasn't until the Russians converted in 988 AD that the Orthodox Church became the dominant church in Eastern Europe. Christianity had been growing among the Russian people for some time, due to Byzantine traders who worked throughout the region, trading for the furs and amber that came from the Baltic coast. However, in 988, Prince Vladimir was baptized and ordered that the people should be baptized as well. The Russian rulers chose Orthodox Christianity over Catholicism for a number of reasons. First of all, they were physically closer to Constantinople, the center of the Orthodox Church, than they were to Rome. Second, they would have been more familiar with the Orthodox branch of the faith due to the work of previous missionaries and the presence of Greek traders. Finally, they would have been aware that Poland had converted to Catholicism, and had experienced meddling by the Church in its affairs. Whereas the Catholic Church saw itself as a single united church with the Pope as the dominant head of it, the Orthodox Church viewed itself as a looser confederation of member churches. As a result, when a nation converted, a new national church was often created with its own Patriarch, or leader. The conversion to Orthodoxy tied Russia into a sophisticated culture, brought prestige, but also left its ruler free from external pressure and meddling. It also brought in many Byzantines to serve as leaders of the early church who could teach people in the ways of the faith, and also teach priests to read and write, spreading literacy throughout the region.

Modern Russia political leaders deliberately keep the spirit of the Byzantine Empire alive.

In addition, in 2015, the Russian foreign ministry’s press center hosted a constituent assembly of the organization known as the Byzantine Club. Its founders say that the club’s goal is to claim Russia as the successor of the great Byzantine civilization. During the opening ceremony, the club’s president, a member of the Civic Chamber named Sergei Markov, said that Russia is another Europe, concerned not only with law and economics, but also with spirituality. Representatives of the Russian imperial-conservative movement believe that Russia should continue its special historic path that started with its adoption of Orthodox Christianity from the Byzantine Empire.

In his article entitled “Historical Perspective of Russian Foreign Policy,” Russian minister of foreign affairs Sergey Lavrov claimed that Russia did not break under the weight of the Mongol yoke and managed to emerge from this hardship as a united state. Subsequently, that government came to be regarded as a kind of heir to the Byzantine Empire in both the West and in the East. Mr. Lavrov also agreed with the philosopher Ivan Ilyin that great power is not determined by the size of a territory or the number of inhabitants, but by the capacity of the people and their government to take on the burden of huge international problems and cope with these issues creatively.

Our quest for a peaceful, well lived life without an overlord is an old one.

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

enhydra lutris's picture

@studentofearth

Kievan Rus (That's Kiev as in the original home of the Russian language designation, currently claimed by Ukraine, more or less a German colony).

The Kievan Rus and Kievan Kaganate sat across a wonderful trade route between the Baltic and the Black Sea+Constantinople, largely controlled and used by the Rus and the Varangians, so there was an intimate connection between Russia and the Eastern Empire. Varangians, in fact, came in time to be the palace guard for the Eastern Empire.

One can get thoroughly lost in that connection and the assorted Kaganates and shit, especially when some "royal" brits bailed and fled to scandihoovia. The eye bone connected to the neck bone and all like that

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

enhydra lutris's picture

@enhydra lutris

made Prince Alexander Nevsky a saint.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

lotlizard's picture

Benny Golson and the Philadelphians

https://www.littleorley.com/history.htm

Uncle Lumpy’s Little Orley radio shows (78 rpm records) told amusing tall tales for kids, depicting North American peasant life pre-liberation Smile

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enhydra lutris's picture

@lotlizard

Not to be confused with Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians

Of course not, there was never a Golson blender, for starts.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Raggedy Ann's picture

We got another couple of inches of snow overnight. I didn't expect it but there it is!

Lookout's comment with the Roman Empire history lesson was interesting. We need new history - we keep repeating that 2,000 year old stuff. Time to move on.

Enjoy the day! Pleasantry

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

enhydra lutris's picture

@Raggedy Ann

and yep, as implied, US politics is definitely Byzantine.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

mimi's picture

Survive
Resist
Rise up
do it for your kids

If you have nothing just some musical talent and otherwise nothing, would you risk to try to make music for money?

Our snow is melting, our patience is melting too, Such a frigging bureaucratic country of the origami type political characters over here in my woods.

I should get a free test now, but I think it's much more fun not to know if you have covid or not. Gives a little spice in your life, right?

You all please survive all the catastrophic weather events and fight those evil doers, if you know what and whom I mean. And if you don't know, do it nevertheless.

Be well all, anf with the words of eyo, peace and love.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@mimi

Survive
Resist
Rise up
do it for your kids

Needs to be a poster, placard, billboard, or great numbers of all three

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

lotlizard's picture

@mimi  
Do our revolutionary dough-ty, take it up to e-leaven, serve the People’s knead, and no loafing along the way!

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enhydra lutris's picture

@lotlizard

before the site can handle any more.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@lotlizard

yeast is the beast
unleavened is crackers
starch for the masters
crumbs for the masses

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QMS. C'mon people now...

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enhydra lutris's picture

@randtntx

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

lotlizard's picture

@randtntx  

It’s the only thing that there’s just too little of
What the world needs now is love, sweet love
No, not just for some, but for everyone

Lord, we don’t need another Maddow
There are Maddows and Limbaughs enough to crow
There are Red Teams and Blue Teams enough to lie
Oh, listen, Lord, if you want to know

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tanks, el. Now I want to read about Byzantium, well not now, but later.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@randtntx

it takes a momentous amount of reading.

be wewll and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

NASA Perseverance is launching today. You can watch it at any of these links. The 1st one I made active, but you can look HERE for others if it doesn't work.

Unfortunately, we can't watch the SUV-size rover land on the surface of Mars -- we're just not there yet, technologically speaking.

Tune in via NASA's public TV channel, website, app, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitch, Daily Motion or THETA.TV.

Phew I thought I had missed watching it after getting distracted by the puppy and the cream saga.

I sure have this pipe dream of us turning our swords into plowshares, declaring peace on the world, offer an "OUR BAD" and then we turn to remaking the earth habitable and then we start exploring the stars and making Roddenberry's dream come true. And mine and how about yours?

About 4 hours till launch. Have fun.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@snoopydawg

that would be a sign or intellectual and emotional maturity that is far beyond many of the world's political classes and much of its population.

All the same ...

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

usefewersyllables's picture

@snoopydawg
the first images came back just a little while ago. Whew...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

snoopydawg's picture

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earthling1's picture

for that interesting piece on Roman/Catholic church labeling.
Holy Roman Catholic Church, makes sense.
Co-incidentally, was reading up on the early history of the Persian peoples yesterday, dating back to 6000 years BCE. Very interesting!
And Americans think we are the exceptional nation. Ha ha ha ha ha.
We are just 5he current iteration of Rome, near ready to split in half.
Or collapse entirely.
Thanks Snoop for the heads up on the NASA rover goings on. As for your pipe dream;
"Truth is foreign influence,
World peace is a threat to national security."
.............et tu

Thanks for the OT, EL. Will try to make a contribution soon.

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Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.

enhydra lutris's picture

@earthling1

in fact just about anywhere in the old world. The new world has some very fun pre-contact history, but after that, ...

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

So embarrassed for the small mindedness of our leaders who wouldn't know reality if it hit them in the ass. For example:

"In high school as a mediocre athlete on the men's side, I would've qualified as a woman in the Olympic trials," Snider said. "In college, as a middle-of-the-pack athlete, I would have had a record as a woman that would still stand on the books today."

This is a contentious area for many people who may be could use educations instead of outright falsehoods like that. No effeminate men do not qualify as women. They qualify as men unless they have transitioned. Maybe some are transitioning still, I don't know. But this has nothing really to do with making sure that women are protected from men in sports. It is an Kock Brother made up ALEC scam that is making the rounds. Idaho passed it and are paying millions in lawsuits defending it.

I have no idea on the answers for this, but I would think the best way to find a handle would be for all players to get together and talk about what the goals are. Easy Peasy instead of ramping up more hate for others they don't understand. But no. They passed it either. Not sure I want to don waders and read the comments. I will looking for that elusive one...

Some hope...

"Sports agencies around the world right now are working hard to address the issue of disparate or not disparate advantages between the sexes. These efforts are marked by thoughtful, fair discussion and deliberation. This bill stands in stark contrast of that thoughtful, fair deliberation," Dailey-Provost said, calling it "cruel, lazy policy."....

The Utah Democratic Party said the bill indicates the sponsors work "for D.C. far-right interests dedicated to stripping transgender people of rights for nothing more than their gender identity."

source

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snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

You kinda ruined your argument when you said "there are always individual exceptions". Also, just because a bull elk can't change genders, doesn't mean that humans cannot. Transgender women are women. It is not separate from biology in this argument whatsoever - and this is far from just what people "identify" as. These are people who have gone through biological and physiological changes so much that it changes their gender. This isn't just "I feel like a woman, so deal with it." It's more.

You can tell who is just reacting to the idea without understanding the concept. It is okay to say, I do not know, but let's talk instead of reacting."

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enhydra lutris's picture

for persons who think with their gonads, persons unsure of their gender identity, and devout religious fundamentalists. All three types need some serious educating, but too often they were not reasoned into their beliefs and have no ability to support them with other than simple sophistry, and are therefore much harder to educate. Persons whose reactions are purely glandular, for example usually don't even know that about themselves.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

snoopydawg's picture

@enhydra lutris

People different from them scares them for some reason. I do not understand much about gender dysphoria and so I don’t say much about it. Just because others don’t understand it doesn’t make it less valid for those who are experiencing it. Passing bills against something closes down dialogue and that is needed and how to solve the problems coming from misunderstandings about something that isn’t well known. Just my 2 cents, but I have never liked discrimination against any group. It’s just wrong.

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snoopydawg's picture

according to people that must defend all democrats from being held accountable for killing tens of thousands of elderly after allowing people who had COVID to return to them. Okay, I have seen everything. It is just Trump taking out his next opponent for president. Got it.

Trump was livid that Cuomo got such favorable attention for his Covid19 briefings.

Too bad I can't post Rising there anymore. Might wake a few people up. But then....nah. Any sane person could see that Cuomo was not who is portrayed himself to be, but don't you dare criticize and Dem cuz Trump was worse.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@snoopydawg

criticism no matter what are dieties. I long ago realized that the majority of the readers there are, in effect, simple idolators, there is no other word for that position and behavior.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris

there is this

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enhydra lutris's picture

@QMS

Taj Mahal is a Turk?

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris

Taj ddi speak once about a turkey.
Seems the lock down restricted gatherings to 2 people
but funerals were allowed up to nine
so they had a funeral for a turkey
at thanks giving Wink

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@snoopydawg I would urge you to dig a little deeper. I don't like Cuomo. He is an establishment 1% dick. However your statement

killing tens of thousands of elderly after allowing people who had COVID to return to them

is simply a regurgitated untrue republican talking point. Here in NY where I live the republican legislators have been trying in vain to strip Cuomo of special emergency powers given to him by the democratic majority at the start of this covid crisis for a long time now. The Cuomo part of the Nursing home death controversy is pretty much made up by using disinformation and taking true snippets out of context. The true evil doers in this death toll are the owners / operators of nursing homes in NY. This was stated in the NY AG's report.

The issue with Cuomo admin is reporting of death numbers. Here is the rub. IN NY deaths are reported at the facility where they happen. There has been an ongoing game of "hot potato" with people in critical medical trouble for decades. The health care entities of all kinds try to move dying patients elsewhere so their survival numbers look better. (great system eh?) The reporting in question is that those who came from a nursing home and died in a hospital were reported as dying in a hospital. There is no controversy there. The republican legislators and the US DOJ asked for numbers of nursing home patients that died in hospitals after transfer. This required additional information analysis by the health department to figure it out. They delayed releasing those numbers 'till the final dates of court orders.

The other part of it is that Cuomo issued a controversial order back in the spring that required covid patients who did not absolutely require a hospital bed to be shipped back to nursing homes. ONLY IF THE NURSING HOMES HAD FACILITIES FOR ISOLATION OF COVID PATIENTS. If nursing homes were not properly equipped to handle covid positive patients the state found other places where they could be sent. THIS WAS HAPPENING AT A TIME WHEN HOSPITALS WERE OVERWHELMED WITH EMERGENCY COVID PATIENTS IN NY. THERE WERE SO MANY BODIES IN NYC THEY WERE DIGGING MASS GRAVES FOR THEM!

So I suggest to you "snoopy" that you do a little deeper research to understand the full issue instead of jumping on the band wagon of repeating rethuglican talking points you hear in UTAH about what is going on in NY.

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magiamma's picture

et al

Lawmakers propose ban on California state fracking by '27
https://mercurynews-ca-app.newsmemory.com/?publink=0cc039166

New legisla- tion would ban all fracking in California by 2027, taking aim at the powerful oil and gas industry in a state already planning to ban the sale of new gas-powered cars by 2035.

Progressive California has long been a leader in combating climate change, requiring solar panels on new homes and passing a law to make the nation's most populated state rely entirely on renewable energy by 2045.

But environmental groups say California officials - particularly governors - have long had a blind spot for the oil and gas industry, which has wielded its immense political power many times to kill or weaken legislation aimed at curtailing production.

That could be changing. Last year, Democratic Gov. Gavin Newsom announced steps to ban the sale of new gaspowered cars and called on law ma kers to go further by banning fracking, a technique to extract oil and gas embedded in rock deep beneath the surface that climate groups say harms the environment and threatens public health.

Let's hope this get through!

Take good care everyone, especially you folks in TX

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enhydra lutris's picture

@magiamma

the bank regulators and the SEC to demand that all banks that have failed to collect on delinquent fracking loans for 2 business cycles or more write them off as non-performing loans and pay no dividends nor make any share buybacks until they've recouped those losses through normal operations.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

magiamma's picture

nasa.gov

... and it's alive

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