Effectiveness of vaccines to stop Covid-19

Two types of vaccine against Covid-19 are likely to become more available this spring. The mRNA vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer are approved and slowly being rolled out in the US. They both need to be transported and stored at freezing temperatures which makes distribution more difficult. The Oxford vaccine, which only requires refrigeration, will be easier to transport in rural areas and countries with poorly developed medical infrastructure. All three vaccines require two doses for full protection.

All three vaccines have shown excellent effectiveness in preventing severe cases of Covid-19. Any risk from these new vaccines is clearly much less than the risk of getting Covid-19. I intend to take whichever vaccine is the first to become available to me.

There are some data that show that the Moderna mRNA vaccine and the Oxford vaccine will decrease the amount of community spread but not stop it. People who have been vaccinated may still get mild or asymptomatic cases of Covid-19 so until most people have been vaccinated it will be necessary to wear masks to stop the spread of the virus in the community.

In clinical trials all three vaccines gave good protection from severe Covid and decreased the incidence of disease. Moderna tested volunteers for evidence of infection right before they were given the second dose of vaccine during the clinical trial. More than 2/3 of the people who had gotten asymptomatic Covid-19 infections were the people who had been given a placebo and not the vaccine. Once full immunity is reached after a second dose of vaccine there should be less risk of of any Covid infection, including an asymptomatic one. The amount of immunity for a vaccinated person does decrease over time but it is too soon to know how long that will take.

People who got Covid-19 during clinical trials of the vaccines

Group____________________Vaccinated____________Not vaccinated

Moderna asymptomatic_______14____________________38

Moderna Covid symptoms_____11____________________185

Oxford asymptomatic_________29____________________40

Oxford Covid symptoms_______54____________________165

New clinical trials that involve giving different dosages for the first and second doses of the Oxford vaccine may give better results. Better results may also come from giving a second dose using the Russian vaccine after the initial dose of the Oxford vaccine. Trials will take some time. In the mean time masks can decrease community spread until enough people are vaccinated to get the pandemic under control. This means that people who have gotten the vaccine should wear masks in public and use reasonable caution to avoid infecting others in case they get mild or asymptomatic Covid.

This is a very good popular article:
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2021/01/14/can-vaccinated-people/

Here is the Moderna data from the NIH:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/experimental-corona...

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gulfgal98's picture

Our local county health dept suspended applications for getting the vaccine. Several people I know have applied for and received their first vaccine shots in nearby smaller and rural counties. Right now, it is like a crap shoot. It should not be like this at all in the greatest nation in the world. It has become where I am like a dog eat dog world just to get a vaccine shot.

Thank you for your informative essay.

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20 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98 I am not yet able to sign up. It was really infuriating when Azar admitted that they had been lying about having a reserve with second doses for the people who have gotten the first one.

Medical personnel and older people in congregate settings do need to get both doses before the rest of us. Then it could be possible to allow twice as many people to go ahead and get the first dose and then wait a couple of months for the second dose. This will greatly reduce the deaths for those who get the vaccine but will create more asymptomatic and presymptomatic spreaders.

It is good that the Biden administration will try to speed things up, but it will take time for them to get things up to speed. Half the people in the stores are not wearing masks and I no longer know how to reach them in a way that will empower them instead of enraging them. This is not a football game where one side has to lose for the other to win. I know from previous comments that you have made that you also want to make this country more peaceful and caring. I wish I know how to decrease the bullying.

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@ScienceTeacher a long discussion about the empty Federal cupboard yesterday.

i'm glad to see we are keeping conversation about this disgraceful governmental failure going.

As Gulfgal98 says, we can't have any confidence that we will be getting our shot in the arm. Media hyping what's new, coming soon, etc does encourage patience for now.

What happens when we realize that all the building out of facilities doesn't matter if States are already running out of vaccines?

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13 users have voted.

NYCVG

@NYCVG
The PTB have had a year to get their acts together. The mRNA vaccines are easier to produce than many of the traditional vaccines. The Feds have not had any top-down organization to address any of the issues.

Apparently there are still PPE shortages for medical staff. The hospitals are overflowing. People are gathering in Covid-spreading mobs to fight over an election that was over two months ago.

I remember US flags everywhere after 9/11. People in this country can be mobilized. Instead we are being divided.

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ovals49's picture

@ScienceTeacher
ascribing the dysfunction to incompetence. There are too many really smart people who have a good understanding of cause and effect who will making good use of the chaos to push other agendas, like censorship and maintaining a compliant and non threatening populace, and the old standby of profiteering. I am of the opinion that most people are good and honest, but that those who are drawn to positions of power are less likely to share those characteristics.

I do appreciate the data you have shared with us and the news that more options are becoming available in the near future for COVID vaccinations. Hopefully supply and distribution issues will resolve quickly as well.

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“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.” – Albert Einstein

@ovals49
We should demand to find out about as much of it as we can. The anger in this country needs to be turned to reform instead of ordinary folks attacking each other. I fear that you are right that it is a feature and not a bug.

If the new administration really makes an effort things can get a lot better when it comes to dealing with Covid. It is in their political best interest. It may take a couple of extra months though since they are probably going to start with a lot of scorched earth.

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@gulfgal98 Thanks for posting this with the link to the article.

One thing I've always been curious about but haven't heard a good answer yet is why the focus has been on a two-dose vaccine as opposed to a single dose? It seems to have been a major contributing factor to the confusion/slow rollout of the vaccine since the FDA approvals. First, they wanted to hold back a reserve so everyone can be sure of getting a second dose, now that doesn't seem to be such a big deal, the mantra now is "get as many shots into as many arms as soon as possible."

However, I'd note that reports are that at least three Congresspeople who got the initial dose tested positive last week, which to me is rather damning proof of the fact, as the article you cite emphasizes, that an initial dose won't guarantee full protection. Yet people seem hell-bent on going to the next level of priority in getting the first doses without assurance that second doses will be available, so this is troubling.

Biden has talked about 100 million doses in people's arms in 100 days, but if you're talking a second dose for everyone, by my math that leaves 80% of the population unvaccinated. Perhaps that's just a lowball number so that he and his Adm. can have bragging rights about doing better than that apparently rather modest estimate.

From where I live (in MD), the situation is still very confusing. Heard a news report on TV a couple of days ago that said my group (1 C) will be eligible to get vaccine as early as next week, but this morning on the radio there was discussion about how people signing up for appt. times were being turned away. So, it's hard to know what to believe.

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snoopydawg's picture

@JCWeb

However, I'd note that reports are that at least three Congresspeople who got the initial dose tested positive last week, which to me is rather damning proof of the fact, as the article you cite emphasizes, that an initial dose won't guarantee full protection. Yet people seem hell-bent on going to the next level of priority in getting the first doses without assurance that second doses will be available, so this is troubling.

I noticed this last week and asked the same question. Joe wondered if maybe getting one dose offers some protection to not getting as sick? I dunno, but why get a shot if it's not going to protect you? And the 2nd one makes you sicker that sh*t? They did not finish their trials on the safety and efficacy so it is pretty much being tried on the population. And adverse effects are adding up. 23 elderly in Norway have died after receiving it and I post links below on some others.

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People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam thinks she’s a cat.

TheOtherMaven's picture

@snoopydawg

but whether that's a statistical artifact (Pfizer came out before Moderna), or whether the Moderna vax isn't as rough on people, is an as-yet unknown.

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4 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@snoopydawg
in people with normal immune systems. If someone who is 60 years old gets one shot they will probably have a risk of severe symptoms or death more like a 30 year old. They will also have less risk of getting Covid in the first place. It does take several weeks after the shot to develop the immunity.

The risk of the vaccine is so much less than the risk of severe Covid and long-term Covid symptoms that I plan to get a vaccine as soon as it is available to me. I plan on taking both shots for the maximum immunity. Even just getting the first one would be a relief though.

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1 user has voted.

@JCWeb
One of the congresspersons who got Covid had only gotten the vaccine a couple of days earlier. It takes a couple of weeks to get a good initial immune response. After that a person who has had one vaccine is less likely to catch Covid and if they do they will probably be asymptomatic or have a mild illness. Giving only the first dose to a larger number of people would help empty out the hospitals. It could also decrease the number of deaths.

People who only had the first dose could still take the second dose several months later to get the maximum possible immunity.

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@JCWeb
So they split it into two so that the first, smaller, dose prepares your body for the second, bigger dose. These vaccines are HIGHLY experimental. the entire class of vaccines is highly experimental.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Pluto's Republic's picture

It's a great future upgrade, just in case the mRNA vaccines do not confer long-term immunity or protect against the flurry of new mutations. We won't know those outcomes for awhile.

Above all, I am a proponent sublingual or nasal delivered vaccines. Makes it easier to distribute to all parts of the world. And it's a god-send for needle-phobes. The vaccine is produced by a US company, who are conducting their tests in the UK.

LONDON -- Trials have begun in London for the next generation of COVID-19 vaccines with the first dose for a new nasal vaccine being developed by the U.S. company Codagenix having been administered at a quarantine facility in London, it was announced Monday morning.

This vaccine is one of the first of the next generation COVID-19 vaccines, it is a single dose, needle free, intranasal, live attenuated COVID-19 virus vaccine. To make it to the finish line, the vaccine will need to prove it's safe and effective in three stepwise experimental 'phases' - a process that could take many months.

But this vaccine, called COVI-VAC, is different from current commercially available vaccines. It uses a “weakened form of the naturally occurring virus that will not cause disease but will generate a strong immune response,” explains Codagenix CEO Robert Coleman, PHD. “Historically, live attenuated vaccines have been very effective, providing long-lasting and broad immunity and typically relying on a single dose.”

Meanwhile, Coleman said, “the current mRNA, VLP, and adenovirus-based vaccines target only the Spike protein, limiting the range of antibodies that can be produced.”

Unlike the vaccines that have been authorized, Codagenix believes its vaccine could provide long-term immunity against COVID-19, with only one or two doses needed over a lifetime, similar to that of the MMR or chicken pox vaccines.

“Most live attenuated vaccines by design cannot fully replicate viruses, this vaccine is different in that it can. Being able to do this maximizes the immune response and gets as natural as possible immune protection just as if the person were exposed to the actual virus,” Coleman added.

And as Sybil Tasker, MD, MPH, Chief Medical Officer of Codagenix notes, COVI-VAC could be more effective at fighting mutant strains of the virus that may emerge in the future, “As a live attenuated vaccine, COVI-VAC has the potential to provide a broader immune response in comparison to other COVID-19 vaccines that target only a portion of the virus, which could prove critical as new variants of SARS-CoV-2 have begun to emerge.”

Using a live attenuated virus in a vaccine is nothing new, “Most of the vaccines we get as children are so called live-attenuated vaccines. That is, they can cause an infection but do so so weakly that there is no danger from the infection, but immunity is generated in the same way as for the normal virus.”

...

The first small group of young healthy adult volunteers will be given the dose by dropping it into their nose and they will then be closely monitored and regularly tested. The trial will follow a standard dose escalation methodology.

...

“As soon as it became clear that the SARS-CoV-2 outbreak was about to become a global problem, our scientists jumped into action to generate a live attenuated vaccine against COVID-19. Codagenix and our global partner, Serum Institute of India, are committed to serving the unmet need to protect against COVID-19, especially in lower income countries around the world.”

Coleman hopes that the simplicity with which this vaccine can be given -- just be squirting it into someone’s nose -- matched with the ease it can be produced and transported will make it a major player in the world’s fight against COVID-19.

Read more @ https://abcnews.go.com/International/inhaling-virus-generation-covid-vac...

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20 users have voted.

"There will be no end to the troubles of States, or of Humanity itself, until Philosophers become Kings in this world — or until those we now call kings and rulers truly become Philosophers." — Plato

@Pluto's Republic
I sure hope this one works out. This sounds like the next generation of one of the Chinese vaccines that has been approved there although the Chinese vaccine does require a shot. Something like the polio sugar-cube vaccines sure would be easier to distribute.

An mRNA vaccine would be safer for someone with immune-system problems, but your vaccine candidate would be great for the rest of us. The mRNA vaccines are also easier to adapt if there is a mutant form of the virus that is resistant to current vaccines. The mRNA vaccines can be good stopgaps until better vaccines become available.

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10 users have voted.
CB's picture

@ScienceTeacher
to mutations of the virus but with the current state-of-the-art development of the attenuated virus vaccines, it is not much of a lead. Both Russia and China have led the world in producing Adenovirus vectored vaccines which offer a huge advantage in being able to cover a greater range of mutations with a normal initial dose. The mRNA vaccines only cover the single protein that makes up the spike.

The emergence of a new variant of coronavirus has sparked renewed interest in the part of the virus known as the spike protein.

The new variant carries several peculiar changes to the spike protein when compared to other closely related variants – and that’s one of the reasons why it’s more concerning than other, harmless changes to the virus we have observed before. The new mutations may alter the biochemistry of the spike and could affect how transmissible the virus is.

The spike protein is also the basis of current COVID-19 vaccines, which seek to generate an immune response against it. But what exactly is the spike protein and why is it so important?

The attenuated virus vaccines also have a very long history of efficacy and relative safety. Most of the problems with them were with the adjuvants (such as mercury compounds) that were added to increase their efficacy without sufficient testing.

But the real difficulty is the logistics of getting vaccines applied out in the real world. The storage requirements of the mRNA (-30 to -60 compared to normal refrigeration/room temperature for the attenuated vaccines) are extremely difficult to maintain and deliver in areas where well over 50% of the world's population live.

It is now apparent that the COVID19 virus is mutating at a much faster rate than expected (but maybe it WAS expected????) and will require another round of double injections every year. This is a manufacturer's dream product. Cheap and easy to manufacture and get approval (for now). But we know the true costs are in the delivery and application of the product which the drug companies are not responsible for.

Maybe I'm being too cynical but I sense that the PTB would like to cull the 'herd'. The unruly mobs have been messing up their playground. War, pestilence and starvation have been the accepted Malthusian mechanism since man has walked the earth (you need only look to Yemen, Syria or Venezuela to see it's current application).

I was going to do a diary on this but don't currently have sufficient time to do it justice. I believe this should be discussed in depth here at C99%.

Truth Jihad Radio’s Kevin Barrett joins Jeff Brown and Matt Ehret to Discuss The Creation of a Chinese Boogey Man

Just when the west needs allies who are resistant to the unipolar depopulation agenda, catapulting head first into the worst financial disintegration and dark age ever recorded, the fear of Russia and China have spiked to new heights unseen even amidst the dark days of the Cold War. The incredible psychological operation undertaken by those very enemies of civilization to induce their victims that their salvation is actually their enemy remains one of the greatest possible tragedies to befall a society too far detached from their own better traditions to know any better.

In this discussion on Truth Jihad Radio with Kevin Barrett, Sinoland Rising Radio’s Jeff Brown is joined by Matt Ehret to discuss the fundamentals of the New World Order, the dynamics shaping the battle between unipolar vs multipolar paradigms and which pathways are available to avoid a total collapse of civilization.

The one-world government, violently controlled and promulgated by hidden forces within Washington (aided and abetted by Britain) in the last 200 years, is now in it's final death throes as it comes into stark confrontation with the Chinese 5000 year old multi-polar worldview. I'm just hoping saner heads within China and Russia (the two countries that have both the military and financial resources to counter the hegemon) will prevail. The US has had a nasty history of destroying that which it cannot bring under it's complete control even if it has to sacrifice it's own citizens in the process.

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8 users have voted.

@CB

Maybe I'm being too cynical but I sense that the PTB would like to cull the 'herd'. The unruly mobs have been messing up their playground. War, pestilence and starvation have been the accepted Malthusian mechanism since man has walked the earth (you need only look to Yemen, Syria or Venezuela to see it's current application).

However, Chinese civilization has risen and fallen about as many times as Western civilization.
Plagues usually start in china, move west, devastate the west, mutate, and go back east to devastate china. It's a recurring pattern. the Silk road was the vector. Now that's obsolete with modern aircraft.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

ovals49's picture

@Pluto's Republic
I am thinking that if their promotional information indicates “many months” of testing, that were probably looking at over a year to market, assuming the FDA will be willing to move quickly with the approval process.

Because it is a live attenuated vaccine that replicates all of the virus proteins, not just the spike proteins, the expectation is that it will be both long lasting and effective on mutations and variants of SARS 2. People at high risk would likely be looking for some level of protection now, but perhaps following up with the nasal. Age and minor hypertension are my only risk factors, so I might just sit tight for a while and observe real world results before I decide which way I’ll be going.

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14 users have voted.

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.” – Albert Einstein

I am at the point where I consider the mask a greater danger than covid. My "safe" time wearing the mask is declining. Today I experienced the "icepick" effect in my left lung only ten minutes after putting it on. I wish I could wear something like a diving helmet. My lung doctor, who is also an old man with COPD, says "Yes", the mask is cutting off my oxygen supply and I should try not to wear it for long periods.

I hear that masks will be required at least through the end of 2022. They will never go away.
I feel I will never sit in a nice restaurant with my family again. The Trumpistas are right. Dems have destroyed our lives and everyone will get it eventually anyway.
Now that I know a fairly large number of old people who have survived covid, I no longer fear it. Besides, as noted above, more and more people are wearing the masks with their nose free which provides no safety at all and/or remove their mask immediately on exit from a store while close (often less than six feet) to entering people.

My 87 year old friend still working at the postal processing plant with at least a quarter of the people down with covid sounds better than I do. And yes, he wears a mask all day at work. Never smoked. He sounds better on the phone than I do.

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13 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness Please explain.

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5 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

@The Liberal Moonbat
The feeling that an icepick has been stabbed deep into your lung.
If you don't understand then you are lucky.

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4 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness How can a facemask do that, though? If this is a real problem (which would mean "anti-maskers" have a very serious point), why haven't I heard about it before now?

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5 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

Dawn's Meta's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness use auxiliary oxygen.

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5 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

@Dawn's Meta
says it's a slippery slope to the nursing home.

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3 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

ovals49's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness
with the help of supplemental O2; with COPD, CHF, stage 4 breast cancer survivor, marginal kidney function. She never saw a day in a nursing home. The slope might not be as steep as you fear. She did have 24/7 care with family and home health aide for the last couple of years. She died at home with the help of hospice with her four kids at bedside. I should be so fortunate when my time comes!

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10 users have voted.

“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.” – Albert Einstein

gulfgal98's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness I am a person who is more susceptible than most to upper respiratory infections such as colds and sinus infections. I always attributed it to my allergies and hay fever. Since I began wearing a mask in April, I have not had a single cold in at least one year, when I usually would have had one or two per year. For me, a mask has now become a part of my lifestyle that I will continue if we are ever able to rid ourselves of COVID.

For some, masks are a negative, but for some of us, a mask has been very positive. And there is one more plus to wearing a mask. It makes it harder for facial recognition technology to identify you.

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5 users have voted.

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

lotlizard's picture

@gulfgal98  
to some Japanese-schoolgirl cosplay I was doing, accompanying my goddaughters to Manga-Comic-Con at the Leipzig book fair . . .

Even though masks are common in East Asia, at the time I never imagined they would become part of daily life here in Germany too.

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5 users have voted.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
It will take 2-3 months for the vaccine to start decreasing the level of infections by itself. I do fear that most people will either wait a few months for the vaccine or they will go ahead and get Covid. The situation will be much better by the beginning of this summer. Masks for everyone who can use them and a policy of test and trace could help speed up the control of Covid. After that it would be great if otherwise healthy people would continue to wear masks when they have a cold or after exposure to the flu. This would protect people with serious health problems from the flu and colds.

I have problems wearing some types of mask because of my allergies. Last summer I bought some disposable masks that caused sinus irritation and mild mask acne. People who have trouble with one kind of mask may be having an allergic reaction to something in the mask. Masks made from coffee filters are good for the grocery store and do not cause irritation. A lot of people who have trouble wearing masks may need to use a different kind of mask.

Washing the masks could be a problem for some people. I am allergic to heavy fragrances in many laundry detergents and dryer sheets. There are probably quite a few people who are not bothered by these fragrances in clothes but who may have some irritation when they are breathing through cloth masks that have been washed with detergent fragrances and dryer sheets. Using fragrance free detergent might help in this situation.

When I wash masks I put them in a clean metal bowl and pour boiling water over them to make sure I kill any bacteria or mold that might have gotten on them. As soon as the water is cool I wash the masks. This is probably not what is causing your problem, but it is a good idea to be safe.

I am an independent voter and have not been happy with the pandemic response of many of our Fearless Leaders. The politicians from both parties need to do a much better job of dealing with the pandemic and the economic problems Covid has caused so many people. I do think that the Dems have figured out that it will benefit them to do something about Covid.

The production of the mRNA vaccines can be increased. There is also a promising vaccine that Johnson & Johnson has in clinical trial in addition to the Oxford and mRNA vaccines. By this summer vaccines should be available for most adults who want them. There should not be a problem with sending the kids back to school next fall. If people who can take vaccines get them and everyone who can wear a mask will do so as much as possible a lot of things can start opening up safely over the summer. I know we are all incredible tired to being cooped up.

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3 users have voted.

@ScienceTeacher
AFAIC, nostrils free is the same as no mask.
I'm more worried about them than people two tables away in a restaurant.

Restaurants still closed here, but as of yesterday casinos can open! Unbelievable.

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0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@ScienceTeacher
AFAIC, nostrils free is the same as no mask.
I'm more worried about them than people two tables away in a restaurant.

Restaurants still closed here, but as of yesterday casinos can open! Unbelievable. @snoopydawg

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0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@ScienceTeacher
AFAIC, nostrils free is the same as no mask.
I'm more worried about them than people two tables away in a restaurant.

Restaurants still closed here, but as of yesterday casinos can open! Unbelievable. @snoopydawg

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0 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Creosote.'s picture

@ScienceTeacher @ScienceTeacher
smaller amount of hotter water, no 'fragrance" (who knows what is in that!)
Many thanks!

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0 users have voted.

Face-to-face teaching. My county is close to entering the phase where educators get vaccinated. I'm nervous with the new variant floating around.

Meanwhile, a major hospital chain in a large city gave vaccines to staff who are not front-line workers and have been working remotely since March. So fucking disgusting that these big wealthy hospitals can hoard the vaccines for non-essential employees while the little people put their lives at risk every day.

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14 users have voted.

For a clear and concise summary of the vaccine situation.

I agree that ascribing this clusterwhatever to incompetence is way too generous, though I disagree with some suggested motivations. It's very clear that reality exists to be exploited for the benefit of DiJiT, Inc. Since the inner circle (upper crust?) has access to all the experimental treatments, private suites, helicopter ambo, etc., the rest of us can suck wind and die. The vaccines were just another piece on the Game Of Power board. The strategy was to give out as many first doses as were useful for PR, then screw it. Worse than useless: good way to breed resistant strains.

I totally agree that until the rate of transmission is way down we need to use all the tools in our kit: distancing, masks, sanitizer, isolation. Relaxing protection causes outbreaks. I favor KN95 style masks which are cheap and affordable if you do a little digging (e.g. $40/box of 50) because they're breathable, real ones are very efficient at filtering, they don't get mouth-slobber, and they never slip off the nose -- a major peeve of mine. I've looked up the govt certifications for the ones I've been buying. I've distributed about 500 of them. I also use a face shield over the mask if I go indoors in public - protects the eyes. They are also cheap, around $1.

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13 users have voted.

@pindar's revenge
It is outrageous that we have to figure this stuff out individually and on our own. Hopefully there will not be another severe PPE shortage now that hospitals are starting to overflow.

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1 user has voted.

@ScienceTeacher

This information should have been widely disseminated 10 months ago. Countries that had experience with SARS could have educated us, but no, let the market reign (rain?).

There's a good recent article in WaPo (yeah, neolib asses, but journos have to work) about mask efficacy and usage, by a public health expert.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/01/26/n95-masks-safest-next...
In short:
Filtration rates:
Quality cloth mask: 60-70%
Blue surgical: 70-80%
N95, KN95, KF94: >90%
Try the fit tests he suggests.

Counterfeiting is a problem. The Feds were too busy with something to prosecute the flimflammers, so unfortunately it's up to us to look up the certifications of the masks.
NIOSH approves the N95 type masks; there is a FAQ here:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/respirator-use-faq.html

KN95s (and KF94s) are typically foreign-made (and cheaper). This is a good place to find info on these:
https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/respirators/testing/NonNIOSHresults.html
for example, the link above will lead to a pdf of test results for the Powecom GB2626 mask. Seeing a document like this gives me confidence in the product, in that it was actually tested to perform as advertised.

Another source, from OSHA: https://www.osha.gov/memos/2020-04-03/enforcement-guidance-use-respirato...
"In some circumstances, additional supplies of respirators certified under standards from other countries or jurisdictions may be available. During periods of shortages of N95 FFRs, the federal government advises that FFRs, air-purifying elastomeric respirators, and compatible filters certified under the following standards of other countries or jurisdictions will provide greater protection than surgical masks (i.e., facemasks, other than surgical N95s[3]), homemade masks, or improvised mouth and nose covers, such as bandanas and scarves:

Australia: AS/NZS 1716:2012
Brazil: ABNT/NBR 13694:1996; ABNT/NBR 13697:1996; and ABNT/NBR 13698:2011
People's Republic of China: GB 2626-2006; and GB 2626-2019
European Union: EN 140-1999; EN 143-2000; and EN 149-2001
Japan: JMHLW-2000
Republic of Korea: KMOEL-2014-46; and KMOEL-2017-64
Mexico: NOM-116-2009

Certification in accordance with these standards ensures that devices provide similar filtration as NIOSH-certified equipment, as described in Tables 1 and 2, below, and, accordingly, have an assigned protection factor greater than or equal to 10."

I can go on tooter and claim I'm the Pope. Consult reliable sources. This reliability work and dissemination of results (plus enforcement against fakes) should have been done for us, but it wasn't. I hope this helps.

Avoid Dr. Tooter.

Bye.

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Pricknick's picture

nation would require a two dose regiment and only plan for one.
I'll pass on the third dose.

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12 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Dawn's Meta's picture

I read somewhere (previous thread here?)that some Norwegians had reactions to one of the vaccines; and that in the UK some vaccinated were incurring Bell's Palsy and other problems. The speculation was that the excipients caused the reactions. They say the buyer should beware. But nowhere is there a list by company/vaccine that lists the excipients.

I am one of those who due to prior infections, mold and petrochemical exposure, have been told not to get flu vaccines or the pneumonia vaccine. I had prior to these exposures gotten yearly shots and several of the pneumonia vaccines.

My immune system apparently is now on permanent high alert, as such I rarely get a cold. If I get the flu, my lungs start to fill within a day. I use essential oils steamed and breathed to knock it down. It has worked so far. But I get older and it gets harder.

For this set of viruses Mr. Meta and I use preventatives: masks, sometimes gloves, store runs when they are likely to be fairly empty; Vit B, D, C, Aloe Vera, Zinc; gargle with salt and provodine/iodine and nasal rinse with sea salt.

In the past I have reacted to Salumedrol after the second dose, many antibiotics, and any medical injectable that I use repeatedly. So trying to balance the immune system, reduce inflammation is the highest priority.

If any body can add to the knowledge base here, it would be greatly appreciated. We seem to be running with a lack of information at the personal level. Hard to be informed when we don't have all the facts.

News and Bluezers are unique in the ability to kick things around and bring as much information as can be found, often obscure to average news consumers.

Thank you so much.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

Consider helping by donating using the button in the upper left hand corner. Thank you.

snoopydawg's picture

@Dawn's Meta

More than 330,000 doses from the same Moderna vaccine batch have been distributed to 287 providers across the state, but this is the first time that health authorities have received reports detailing adverse reactions associated with the lot, according to Pan.

While acknowledging that “less data exists on adverse reactions related to the Moderna vaccine,” the state epidemiologist said that it’s rare for vaccines to trigger serious side effects.

I reported the facial paralysis, but oh no it comes from RT. As did the tweet. Shhh maybe someone won't notice.

https://www.rt.com/news/512736-israel-facial-paralysis-13-covid-vaccine/

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People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam thinks she’s a cat.

Creosote.'s picture

@Dawn's Meta
I'm finding it recommended in trustworthy sources

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I get, I can't keep up.

Sweden's mortality is worse than I had recently suggested. My estimate assumed that as of last Monday, their official numbers for Dec 29th had "settled". This assumption was based on observation of Swedish numbers over the previous months. It turns out, however, that a backlog from the Christmas holiday meant that there were more deaths to be certified. Many more.

The current, effectively final, count for Dec 29 is 9570, hundreds more than when I last posted. The count for January 11th is 10,254, but that will rise by a at least a few hundred by this time next week. At this point, over 11,000 Swedes have certainly died of Covid, and likely ~12,000. Another 2,000 to 2,500 (worst-case: ~3,000) will die over the next 3 weeks. They're in some danger of reaching 0.2% overall mortality by the time vaccinations kick in.

In the UK, the toll for the preceding 7 days is ~8,000. Covid-19 is quite certainly the #1 cause of death in the UK right now, by a significant plurality.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Creosote.'s picture

@UntimelyRippd
was among the first of countless disastrous claims made by the PM and others in Britain. I've been following the reader comments under the Steve Bell and Martin Rowson cartoons at the Guardian recently, and see reports from trustworthy commenters of countless instances of their non-government's corruption and irresponsibiity; it's essentialy a murderous situation, with no election scheduled for four more years.

Funds for vaccines, much less test-and-trace and other essential needs, were either absent and insufficient, or procurement was granted to private parties with no experience, and no result.
Couple that with Brexit ending the relatively easy transport of food and medicine from and to the EU (because no one was assigned to work out the astonishingy complex forms for that transport), and the next months look very dark.

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Any risk from these new vaccines is clearly much less than the risk of getting Covid-19.

That cannot be stated with certainty unless the true risk *for an individual* of getting Covid-19 is known (or at least can be predicted with reasonably certainty) and the actual risk from the vaccine is, in fact, known.

The risk of getting from having the disease according to age, general health, presence or absence of known co-morbidities is hugely variable. The risk to someone in good health under 60 years is minimal and it is not at all clear that the risk for such people that the risk of disease is greater than the vaccine. Plus, what about those who have had the disease and recovered? On what medical grounds should they be encouraged or forced to accept vaccination?

Further, there is immunity and there is immunity - and there can be important differences between naturally and vaccine-acquired. Can't say for sure about Covid-19, but with other diseases, measles for example, naturally acquired immunity is clearly the gold standard - it is *permanent* for one thing, and allows mothers to confer greater immune protection to their babies through breastfeeding.

An important additional consideration is to what extent risk is inherent, given our current state of knowledge and resources, and to what extent it is being elevated unnecessarily due to policies that limit (when they are not denying the existence of) effective therapeutics - Ivermectin being a prime example.

If, as many doctors claim and experience in many countries demonstrates (w/Ivermectin, Mexico and India being examples), that cheap and effective prophylaxes and therapeutics exist which can prevent or promote speedy recovery from the disease then the inherent risk of the disease (for most people) is being overstated.

I intend to take whichever vaccine is the first to become available to me.

As should be your *choice*.

EU petition on Pfizer trial

Testimony of Dr. Pierre Kory

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