Punishment of Republican Challengers to the Electoral Count

Corporations Stop Donations

As covered in this essay, American corporations announced they're suspending campaign donations to the 147 Republicans objectors to last week's electoral process in Congress. Some people feel this is censorship and didn't like my use of "sedition and insurrection" to describe the Republican's actions.

There have also been calls for the objectors to resign. Some think this is wrong.

Why It Matters To Me

I am a Michigan native, born and raised there. I served my 3 years in the US Army in Georgia. I have lived in Arizona for 17 years. Three states I have personal connections to are among the states being challenged. That pisses me off.

Arizona vs Texas

Arizona was challenged because a Federal District Court judge ordered the state to extend voter registration past the state deadline to accommodate those affected by Covid-19, especially those in minority communities such as Maricopa County that have the least access to election services and were most impacted by the virus. The District Court judge was overruled by a Federal Appeals Court 8 days later and the voter registration extension was shut down.

Since when is supporting Republican challenges of easier voter registration a progressive or c99 thing? That boggles my mind.

Ironically, the extension helped Republicans more than Democrats. There were 10,922 new voters registered as Republicans and 8,292 registered as Democrats. Reference: Extension of registration deadline nets more than 35,000 new voters in Arizona

What pisses me off even more is the partisan nature of the challenge. Arizona was challenged for extending voter registration by 10 days. Texas, on the other hand was not challenged DESPITE its Republican governor extending early voting by 6 days. Gov. Abbot of Texas was sued by the state legislature for violating the state law that sets the dates for early voting. The Texas Supreme Court, which consists solely of 9 Republican members, sided with the Governor.

What Texas did was an obvious non-legislative power grab by the governor supported by the rogue Texas Supreme Court legislating from the bench like a bunch of stoned-on-reefer liberals.

But none of the 147 Republican US Representatives and none of the 13 Republican US Senators challenged the Texas electors that illegally awarded 38 electoral votes to President Trump. They only challenged states that voted for Joe Biden.

The Argument for the Challenges

Are you seriously suggesting rejection of Title 3 of the United States Code? The procedures followed by Congress on January 6 - INCLUDING the opportunity to challenge "irregular" returns - is explicitly set forth therein.

Politicians who take unpopular positions *do* leave themselves open to retaliation by corporate donors (cutting off funds), the mass media (ridicule for "frivolous" challenges), and voters (primarying and/or voting out of office at the next election). But to demand their resignation for following the law is a very, very dangerous move indeed.

My Response to that Argument

As mentioned above, none of the Representatives and none of the Senators challenged the Texas electors. And none challenged other Republican states that changed election rules but voted for Trump. I'm shocked, I tells ya!!

For the general election, at least 30 states plus the District of Columbia have made at least some changes that will make it easier and more accessible for voters to cast their ballots from home. These changes include removing strict excuse requirements or allowing COVID-19 concerns to be a valid excuse to vote absentee, allowing ballot drop boxes, offering prepaid postage on election mail and proactively sending all active registered voters applications to request an absentee ballot -- with some even skipping that step and sending the actual ballots.

The states are: Alabama, Arkansas, California, Connecticut, Delaware, District of Columbia, Georgia, Illinois, Iowa, Kentucky, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, Ohio, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Carolina, Texas, Vermont, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

Source: ABC News

Did you notice that I bolded about half of the states in the list of states that changed election rules? Did you also notice that NOT A SINGLE DAMN ONE OF THOSE STATES THAT VOTED FOR TRUMP WAS CHALLENGED by the Republicans in Congress who were oh so concerned about the sanctity of our elections?

And did you notice Arizona is NOT on the list? From the ABC News article: Prior to the 2020 election cycle, some states -- like Arizona, Colorado, Florida and Washington -- already had robust or predominantly vote-by-mail elections, and voters were familiar with the system, so there hasn't necessarily been a need for them to change the rules.

So it turns out the EXALTED Title 3 challenges by the Republican Heroes were based on whether a state voted for Joe Biden or for Donald Trump. Wow, voting for the wrong guy is now evidence of IRREGULARITY!!

A Quick Summary of the Georgia Challenge

Georgia is a battleground state that is slowly turning blue as them Damn Librul Yankee Baby Boomers from the North move in and as the minority population expands. Georgia was on the challenge list because it had the audacity to give more votes to Joe Biden than Donald Trump.

I give the Governor and Secretary of State partial credit for fighting tooth and nail against President Trump and his campaign minions. Trump even called the SoS and tried to solicit election fraud — "Brad, I need you to find me 11,780 votes I didn't earn. You can just tell people you 'recalculated'. If you don't work with me here, what you've done is illegal."

Let's also have a shout-out for Hero of the Senate Challenge Ted Cruz, who used the Georgia runoff elections as a fundraising tool — FOR HIS OWN CAMPAIGN FUND!!

The runoff is a gold mine for politicians. And now that they can run Facebook ads in Georgia, they’re rushing for it.

Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) needs your help to keep the U.S. Senate in Republican hands. So blared a handful of Facebook ads that Cruz’s campaign committee purchased this month. But none of them were actually raising money for the Republican candidates in Georgia. Instead, every penny donated went directly to… Cruz.

The Cruz campaign bought 15 separate ads on Facebook over the past two weeks, each featuring a video of the senator dramatically hyping the need to hold two U.S. Senate seats in Georgia runoff contests.

“Gun-grabbing, tax hikes, open borders, and stacking the Supreme Court. That’s the radical Democrat agenda if they win the Georgia Senate elections,” Cruz declared while pocketing the loot.

Source: Ted Cruz’s Georgia Runoff Fundraising Is Actually Going to His Campaign

A Quick Summary of the Michigan Challenge

Michigan is a Democratic state. Registered Democrats outnumber Republicans by 13%. Michiganders have chosen the Democratic presidential contender in 7 of the last 8 elections. Donald Trump barely squeaked out a win in 2016 by a measly 0.24% of the vote.

Yet Trumpsters are convinced Trump won Michigan by 10%. Despite his fumbling of the Federal response to Covid-19. Despite the Trump Recession of 2020 that put 1 million state residents out of work and increased the unemployment rate to 24%. Reference: Michigan jobless rate remains high in May

The underlying thesis of the Michigan challenge (apart from the technologically ignorant and patently false claims about election software that I thoroughly debunked in my Election Fraud Lies series) is that scary Black people in Detroit committed massive fraud by stuffing hundreds of thousands of illegal ballots for Joe Biden into the hands of corrupt election officials.

This, of course, is a lie. As soon as you read these facts, you'll agree. Fact 1: Detroit is 80% Black and strongly liberal. Detroit voted overwhelmingly for Joe Biden. Fact 2: Turnout in Detroit was extremely low at just 49.8%. Not the 113% claimed by Election Truthers. Fact 3: The total vote count was just 250,00. That makes it impossible for there to be "hundreds of thousands" of phony ballots.

Conclusion

I stand by my use of the words "sedition and insurrection". These were frivolous challenges.

The challenges were deliberately targeted at overturning the victory of Joe Biden and were not based on verified wrongdoing in the challenged states. As amply evidenced by the unequal treatment of the Arizona and Texas election rule changes. And no challenges issued for the other 12 Republican states that changed election rules due to Covid-19.

There was also an element of racism involved. As shown by claims not backed by any valid evidence that Black and Brown voters in Detroit, Atlanta, and Phoenix cheated and lied and stole the election from Donald Trump. Those claims are ridiculous. Trump lost. He's fired.

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usefewersyllables's picture

PR posturing and Kabuki.

They'll all be dumping those wonderful elephant-choking bales of untraceable cash back into the uniparty's slop troughs, just as soon as the next shiny object appears and Joe and Mary Sixpack's attention wavers.

The business of America is owning politicians. That isn't going to change because of this momentary optical inconvenience.

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Vote by mail and absentee voting by state as of November 2020

The "vote by mail" (all registered voters receive a ballot) states are: CO, DC (perhaps), HI, MT (county option), OR, UT, and WA.

For the 2020 election four states did vote by mail: CA, NV, NJ, and VT due to COVID-19. What they'll do in the future is yet to be determined.

Then there are the "no excuse" absentee ballot states. Such as AZ.

Then there are the states that still require an acceptable excuse to obtain an absentee ballot. Several states expanded the excuse to include COVID-19. Note how limited that expansion was in MS and MO.

Finally in 2020 there were some states that mailed out applications for absentee ballots. These were CT, DE, IL, IA, MD, MA, MI, NB, NM, OH, RI, and WI.

FYI - COVID-19 was not an acceptable excuse for an absentee ballot in TX.

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CS in AZ's picture

@Marie

We do NOT use "absentee" ballots to vote by mail. Not that I understand why you keep harping on this semantic point. But in any case you are incorrect.

In 1997, state lawmakers made a simple change in Arizona election law. The word “absentee” was replaced by “early.”

In 2007, Pima County Recorder F. Ann Rodriguez led an effort by county recorders to get the Legislature to create the Permanent Early Voting List.

“Our constituents were saying: 'How come I have to do this every year, request a ballot by mail? You can see in my history I always vote this way.' And they were correct, so we went to the Legislature saying: 'Look, people want this method. Let them have the option of choosing to do it or not to do it,'” Rodriguez said.

Since Arizona changed its early voting laws, making it easier to cast an early ballot, the practice has become more popular. Most of the early ballots cast are done so by mail.

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@CS in AZ
states absentee ballots are called early voting. And in some (all?) of those "early voting" states, it's a "no excuse" early voting request and some (all?) also permit permanent "early voting" status instead of making the request for each election. It's still a two-step process: registration and "early voting" request/application.

In vote by mail states it's a one step process: registration. County clerks mail ballots to all registered voters. Not so easy to fail to send out ballots to registrants and a failure would be quickly seen. Unlike in "early voting" states where it's not uncommon for people not to receive the ballot that they thought they'd requested. While county clerks/offices generally aim to do the right thing, not everyone is honest.

I think there's a difference between "no excuse" absentee/early voting system and a vote by mail system. And seems to me that AZ legislators agree with me or they would have adopted the more straightforward vote by mail system. The former has more elements that can be rigged and voter disenfranchisement remains possible as I personally think was somewhat prevalent in AZ prior to 2020.

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CS in AZ's picture

@Marie

First, thanks for clarifying why you think this is somehow an important distinction. I disagree but I don't think it matters enough to argue it.

But, when it comes to people misrepresenting or misunderstanding how vote by mail works in Arizona, I do care about that enough to engage and try to get the facts straight.

So in Arizona, signing up for the Permanent Early Voting List (PEVL) can be done right when you resister to vote, so it is not a two-step process unless you don't do it at first and then change your mind and decide to go back and sign up later. Then you can do that.

Voting by Mail: How to Get a Ballot-by-Mail

You can sign up for the PEVL when you register to vote. Or, if you’re already registered to vote, follow the simple steps below to get your ballot-by-mail and ensure you have a safe, secure, and reliable option for voting in this year’s elections.

It is quite easy to sign up when you register, just checking a checkbox on the registration form saying you want to sign up for the PEVL. That's it. From then on, they automatically mail you a ballot for every general election, and they send a form that you can return to request a primary ballot, if you want one. (And in my case, as a registered independent, I can choose which party's primary I want to vote in and they send me that ballot.)

There is an online database where you can check to see the status of your ballot at any step in the process. I have done this for years and never had any issues whatsoever.

AZ is a state with many very independent-minded people, so they made it optional, not because they "agree with you" but because as a rough-and-tumble independent state, they were not going to force it on everyone, as some people want to stand in line and vote at the polls and they would not like having to vote by mail.

But they also make it easy and accessible to vote by mail for those that want to vote that way. Which a large majority of Arizona voters do. As EdG says in the essay, we have a long-standing vote-by-mail system in place that actually works quite well, and people who live and vote here are generally very happy with it.

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@CS in AZ
Finally showed up five weeks later. First Class mail. My three day priority package took four weeks to get to Alabama and I had to call a friend in Memphis to search for it.

I'm a postal retiree but I will never mail a payment again if the bank's website makes it easy to epay. Target doesn't but we just pay the bill at the the local store as we did today. And I'm going to follow my 87 year old Postal buddy's advice. "Whenever I have an important package, I send it FedEx."
No, I don't trust Vote By Mail. No assurance the election authorities will get my ballot and even if they do, no assurance that partisan workers won't substitute it upon arrival. This is the infamous Cook County Illinois.

Which does not even touch on "Why bother voting when Wall street rigs the primaries?" Both candidates are my enemy and third party protest voting is futile as long as the bulk of the sheeple "Vote Blue (or Red) no matter Who" and the same billionaires have hand-picked both the Red and Blue candidates.

Bernie's surrender really lost my faith. I DO admire Trump for not quitting because the news media told him too. I think the banks did also and that's why the (R)'s are turning on him. Rats deserting a sinking ship.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

CS in AZ's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

There are always going to be some people who won't like it and will squawk up a storm if it were the only option. I won't try to list the thousands upon thousands of envelopes and packages that I have sent and received via the USPS with no significant problems ever. I even switched back to mailing checks for some of my bills because the online payment systems were unreliable. Funny though, I once had a job that lasted for perhaps two months when I was trained to be a customer service call center representative taking calls for lost packages for Fed Ex. Since I spent all day taking calls from people with lost packages, it was easy to form the impression that they never got anything successfully delivered anywhere, and for years after that I didn't trust them at all.

Anyway, "voting by mail" in Arizona also allows you the option to drop your sealed ballot envelop off at a polling place either on or before election day. So you don't have to send it through the mail. They send it to you through the mail, you fill it out at your convenience and with no rush, and then either mail it or hand-deliver it in person. Then you can check the database to verify when it is received, verified, and counted. Do you get all that when you vote in person?

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@CS in AZ @CS in AZ

Arizona also allows you the option to drop your sealed ballot envelop off at a polling place either on or before election day. So you don't have to send it through the mail.

Although it turns Election Day into Election Month. Which is why I don't early vote either. I want to see the October Surprise before sealing my choice. I do realize that people who vote straight party ignoring all else might as well be allowed to just sign up as such and have their totals just append to the counted ballots. Much quicker, cheaper and reliable. Like giving your proxy in corporate voting. People might as well give their proxy to the DNC and RNC.

Then you can check the database to verify when it is received, verified, and counted.

Illinois doesn't give us that option. You mail it and pray. Sometimes you arrive at the polls and they claim you voted already. Then you have to show them that your signature matches the one in the book and the person who voted in your name made an unintelligible scrawl. Then you fill out an affidavit and your ballot goes into a "provisional vote" bag. Those aren't even counted unless the top line race is close enough.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

How many times have you arrived at the polls to find someone already voted in your name?

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@edg

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

I don't suppose they caught the SOB.

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@edg
I had to vote provisional despite my signature matching the book and his not matching the book, and i had my state ID, federal picture ID, and voting card plus my tax bill for my address.

Voting here is pointless anyway. the (D) always wins and at the county level usually isn't even opposed.

Voting is just a bad habit. Trump thinks the count is rigged? Could be. I think the deck is stacked, heads (D) the billionaires' win, tails (R) we lose.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

I haven't found large-scale vote fraud anywhere I've looked. But having a choice between Donald Trump and Joe Biden seems like no choice at all. Different styles, different beneficiaries of largesse, but same result -- we the people lose.

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@edg
on Bloomberg today.
Probably an (R) but he made sense to me. Said a pointless political impeachment just sets up a bad precedent. He favored a vote of censure from congress and that I think a lot of (R)s could have gone along with, Me too. Censure not for the riot that there is not incitement for but for the continued claims that he won after what 87 court losses including two runs at the Supreme court.
Censure isn't a crime. censure is saying that you have behaved abominably and are a discredit to your office. I can wholeheartedly agree to that.
There is talk of starting the trial on inauguration day. What a farce!

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

From my friend in Michigan who mailed it December 20th. Do I blame USPS? Not really. Over the past 15 years my online store has mailed over 100,000 orders to customers with just 6 lost. Or I should say stolen, because they were taken by porch pirates after delivery. All our packages have tracking, of course, so that helps. But now USPS offers Informed Delivery, which sends me an email with a scan of each piece of mail and each package coming my way and when it will be delivered. That's a free service.

Who do I blame for delayed mail? Well, there's this: Fewer and fewer priority mail packages were delivered on time after DeJoy took over the USPS, internal documents reveal. And the hit to cash flow caused by having to fund postal employee's retirement for 75 years. And this: Revealed: evidence shows huge first class mail slowdowns after Trump ally took over.

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@edg
I would say the about one in ten thousand mailpieces are destroyed in a single pass. Your ballot (or anything else not local) will go through at least four passes. I have seen first class mail sit while third class advertising is run because because management declared them (an important mailer. That's the result of running a government service "like a business".

The damage rate goes way up if the machine is improperly serviced of course. And my friends still working say management keeps cutting personnel to cut costs.

Did you read the post where my friend that's still working said that for two weeks they only processed Land's End packages. Everything else sat. USPS, a subsidiary of Land's End. I suppose that is the result of running it like a business. I wonder why they don't run DoD like a business. The navy's tankers could transport crude for Exxon. Politicians could rent destroyers for parties. They could lay off soldiers when peace breaks out. Oh, wait...

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1 user has voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

USPS is the red-headed stepchild of the Executive Branch. Although a Constitutional function, the post office has always been treated like crap. I suspect that's because it delivers mail from and to poor people. Those who want to privatize it and make it like FedEx and UPS don't care that the cost of mailing will become prohibitively expensive for people of lesser means. And the drop in mail volume that results will be used as justification for more and deeper cuts.

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@edg

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@Marie

Michigan voters approved Ballot Proposal 3 in 2018. Prop 3 amended the state constitution to allow no-reason absentee ballots for all voters.

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@edg
in 2020 is that county clerks sent out applications for absentee ballots. I didn't list all the "no excuse" absentee ballot states.

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@Marie

The "vote by mail" (all registered voters receive a ballot) states are: CO, DC (perhaps), HI, MT (county option), OR, UT, and WA.

For the 2020 election four states did vote by mail: CA, NV, NJ, and VT due to COVID-19. What they'll do in the future is yet to be determined.

Then there are the "no excuse" absentee ballot states. Such as AZ.

Then there are the states that still require an acceptable excuse to obtain an absentee ballot. Several states expanded the excuse to include COVID-19. Note how limited that expansion was in MS and MO.

Finally in 2020 there were some states that mailed out applications for absentee ballots. These were CT, DE, IL, IA, MD, MA, MI, NB, NM, OH, RI, and WI.

A couple points:

In Nevada, ballots were mailed to anyone with a driver's license (many NV voters apparently live in casinos, vacant lots, marijuana dispensaries...) so many that were ineligible to vote received ballots (IIUC) there was some small disclaimer in English that said something about non-citizens not being able to vote written - which means that more than 20,000 people in Nevada who are non-citizens received ballots

Wisconsin requires an excuse for absentee voting and has signature and witness requirements for those using absentee ballots - with an exception for those who are permanently or indefinitely confined. Officials in some counties there made announcements to the effect that those confined due to COVID-19 could use the permanently/indefinitely confined option and thus be exempt from normal signature requirements and numbers of voters claiming that status went from 72,000 in 2019 to 180,000 by the 2020 primary to about 240,000 by the November election.

Courts eventually held that the advice was improper, but rejected requests to not count those ballots even though the status was improperly claimed in many cases and evaded state law intent in terms of election security.

Again, concerns about this were raised before the election

...

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edg's picture

@Marie

Despite the phony claim by a c99 member well known for prevarication, Nevada did not mail ballots to every person with a driver's license. The state legislature passed a law in August to send absentee ballots to all active registered voters. Not to "every person with a driver's license".

The state of Nevada has approved a plan to send absentee ballots to all active voters this November, a major expansion of mail-in voting in the battleground state.

Over the weekend, the Democratic-controlled Nevada state legislature passed a sweeping election bill along party lines. Gov. Steve Sisolak, a Democrat, signed the legislation Monday afternoon. That makes Nevada the eighth state, along with the District of Columbia, to adopt universal vote-by-mail for the presidential election in November, amid the ongoing coronavirus pandemic.

"This bill will help prevent Nevadans from experiencing the long lines at polling locations they faced during the Primary election, which will protect their safety, safeguard their right to make their voices heard, and help reduce the spread of COVID-19," Sisolak said in a tweet Monday.

Source: Nevada approves plan to mail ballots to all registered voters

Also, see this election bulletin from the Nevada Secretary of State. In addition, the state prepared an after-election fact check document that debunks the various rightwing Election Truther lies about the Nevada election.

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@edg
to all drivers. Illinois debated doing that and since Illinois, being a separate country with it's own immigration laws, issues driver's licenses to admitted illegal immigrants, I suppose they mailed them forms too. I'm sure illegals vote in Chicago. A few years ago a Chicago Alderman and his father were caught by the FBI with thousands of legitimate IL driver's license blanks after a sting operation wherein they sold the licenses for thousands of dollars. I'm quite sure such an Alderman condoned using those fake licenses to vote for him.

Now call me racist because I oppose states usurping Federal Law. I do support reforming immigration law (not the "reform the Bill Gates wants - unlimited H1-B and other corporate sponsored visa). I only say it should be done in a Constitutional manner, not every state and city deciding their own laws. In that way Illinois is no better than Jim Crow Mississippi.

I give you another "whataboutism". Why didn't Obama reform the immigration laws when he had majorities in both Houses and a mostly Democratic Supreme Court? Do you expect any action on this from Biden and the new Congress? I do. I expect them to pass Bill gates' "reformns" extending corporate control over immigrants. I'm thankful that my ancestors came under the "Open Door" and weren't stuck working for Padrones or being shipped back to Europe.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

Nevada voters passed a ballot initiative in 2018 that took effect in January 2020. Everybody applying for or updating or requesting a change of address for a driver's license is automatically registered to vote unless they decline or are already registered. Address changes are applied to the state's central voter list. A paper or electronic affirmation that the person is eligible to vote and signed under penalty of perjury is required.

Some may view that last part as an invitation for fraud. Generally, those that view it this way are the same people that proclaimed the "1000s of affidavits" offered as "evidence" of voter fraud in the lawsuits must be accepted as gospel truth because they were signed under penalty of perjury.

My general sanity check for voter fraud claims is to start with voting statistics and history. In Nevada, 38% of registered voters are Democrats and 33% are Republicans. Dems lead by 5%. Nevadans have elected the Democratic candidate in 6 of the last 8 elections. Nevadans voted for Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump in 2016. Clinton beat Trump by 2.42%. Biden beat Trump in 2020 by 2.39%. 2016 Turnout was 76.83% with 1,125,429 votes cast. 2020 Turnout was 78.22%, with 1,821,864 votes cast. Unemployment hit 28.2% in April.

None of those facts indicate that massive voter fraud occurred or that a large number of illegal aliens voted for Biden or that the result was unexpected.

The number of votes cast jumped by nearly 700,000, likely as a result of motor voter. But notice that the relative performance of the candidates barely changed. This means more Republicans and more Democrats were registered and voted. If massive voter fraud by only Democrats had occurred, Biden would have won by a large margin. Instead, the margin shrank a bit from 2016.

I suppose, though, that Republicans and Democrats could have cheated equally and canceled each other's cheats out. But that seems unlikely.

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@edg
Could be explained by Democrats using mail-in ballots more than Republicans. Can't say why it took says to find more ballots. THAT sounds suspicious.

I'm not sure about here in my IL suburb. I did notice that everyone seemed to be at least 50. In previous elections there was much more age spread. And the late morning pre-lunch time that we favor is usually young mothers with babies or toddlers. Of course, this year many more working age people were home. Still, it seemed to skew old and male. i.e. Republican. There are exceptions like me. Voted Green or blank. We had a surprising number of Green candidates. You wouldn't know it from the news media.

Our town is probably atypical. Originally white blue collar, now heavily Hispanic, Indo-Pak, and Arab. The synagogue is gone. We have two mosques, a Hindu temple, the sole Catholic church that's actually been expanded. It now features mass in Spanish. The Bible church is gone. The synagogue was replaced by a Jain center, whatever that is. None of which bothers me, except the mosques. I don't go to church anyway.

EDIT:
I wonder if the two mosques are one for the Pakistanis and one for the Arab's. I have seen people (presumably women) in full yashmak, glaring out of eyeholes at the evil unbelievers.
Town is reliably Democratic except at the local level. But, same Republican Mayor and Council that were here 30 years ago,. a few council members have been replaced, by new Republicans. The towns North and South of us are higher income white collar, and definitely full Republican. East and west are lower income and have welfare offices. Pure Democrat. In fact, at the Federal level even the affluent Chicago suburbs are voting (D) with local (R). I'm sure they don't want to follow the neo-Confederate Trump rabble. Deplorables, you know. Illinois is losing a congressional seat from the Census. Political talk her is that Adam Kinzinger has jumped on the impeachment bandwagon to keep from being gerrymandered out by the Democratic supermajority. The betting is that almost pure (R) Southern Illinois will lose the seat. Demographics like Kentucky, including waving Confederate flags in the Land of Lincoln and worshiping their phallic symbol firearms.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

All election jurisdictions rely on minimally trained temporary workers to man the polls, count ballots, and do other administrative tasks supervised by permanent employees. There is no fully staffed election department year-round anywhere in the US. As a rule, amateurs make more mistakes than professionals.

As for mosques, Islam has two main branches -- Sunni and Shia. They don't usually hang out together.

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enhydra lutris's picture

@Marie

before 2016, California instituted Permanent Absentee Voter status. Anybody can enroll at any time. Those who are enrolled receive all the normal election information brochures and such and a "mail-in" ballot with special envelope. The ballot must be placed in the envelope, which must be signed, and may then be mailed, dropped off at specified functionaries office, or deposited in the box provided in one's local polling place. I think, but am not certain, that one can drop it off at any polling place. In 2020, special drop boxes were also provided outside of libraries and in similar locations.

be well and have a good one.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

gulfgal98's picture

@enhydra lutris Vote by mail ballot must be requested by the voter. This can be done on line and the voter can specify that the request is either for one election only or to be made for up to two subsequent elections. If the ballot is mailed back to the elections office, it must be received by the office no later than the date of the election, regardless of postmark. However ballots can be dropped off at either polling places or the elections office. The voter can track his or her ballot on line to ensure that it was received by the elections office.

Vote by mail ballots in Florida must be signed by the voter on the back of the envelop after it is sealed. The signature line is over the seal so it ensures that the envelop was sealed first before the voter can sign it. Supposedly that signature is matched to the one on file in the elections office before it is opened. I have voted by mail for a number of years and have never had a problem with my ballot being received by the elections office.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

I really have nothing to add to what you've written. Well reasoned and argued.

What follows is based on my growing unease with the positions, arguments, and tortured reasoning and logic I've seen here the past few months. I'll get to that later. Let's address sedition and insurrection first. John Adams got in a shitload of trouble over his sedition law. It was one reason he was a one term president. In my opinion barring sedition has no place in a free society. Depending on how it is defined and laws against it are worded, resistance to and protest against unjust laws, government actions, and elected officials can be called sedition and punished criminally. We know how poorly the prohibition against sedition went in the first few years of the 19th century. The law was repealed because it was used politically against rivals. No surprise there.

What trump did on January 6th is sedition by most definitions but it's not a prohibited action although it could probably be grounds for claims of violating an oath of office. It's kind of bizarre that a president could be considered seditious. Against who, himself and his administration? His problem is that he arguably incited an insurrection. (Partly against himself, partly for himself...can't make this shit up.) Getting caught up in an insurrection or inciting one is a big problem addressed in the Constitution as well as federal law. The courts may or may not get a chance to rule on trump's part but will almost surely address the actions of his minions (far more stupid and inept than the animated Minions from the movies). Those elected representatives who participated directly to enable what transpired at the least violated their oaths of office to support and defend the Constitution. Whether what they did rises to the level of enabling and supporting an insurrection is for the Justice Department to decide and the courts to rule on. Were I Ted Cruz, besides thinking of having myself committed, would be rather concerned about how I was going to slip out of a nasty self induced flustercluck.

That's my opinion on sedition and insurrection and may or may not be supported by the law. I'm no lawyer. As a citizen, though, I saw elected representatives create an environment that enabled and incited a mob to assault the Capitol and civil servants charged with its protection. People died as a result. There is little doubt about the existence of conspiracies to do all sorts of mischief. The prison/industrial complex is going to be overjoyed.

Are there really some of us who think behavior like that is what we want from elected leaders? Do any of us think that they, along with trump and his close henchmen, should not be held accountable? Do any of us think that because they had not been held accountable for the corruption of the previous 1487 days, they should get a pass on this one too? If there are please explain yourself and show your work.

The lack of accountability in government and our elected, appointed, and hired public servants is one of the problems that most needs fixed if we're to get this country on track to sanity and a functioning democracy. I don't know about you but I'm past sick of people accepting anything from their team while screaming "what about them?".

Money in politics is another huge problem. Corporate and dark money leads the pack as corrupting influences and endless ratfuckery. So now when corporations are stopping political donations (At least temporarily - I mean come on - permanently? That's crazy!), we're objecting? What? Wrong reason for doing the right thing? No such thing IMHO. The same goes for refusing to give these turds a free public platform on social media or sell/rent a platform. Que the tortured censorship arguments. Do we hate corporations, capitalism, and/or our system so much that we've lost our ability to take the gift of not having trump and many others spew toxic waste 24/7/365? Or is it that we somehow sympathize/support with the insurrection? There's a strange thought that just popped into my mind. Could be?

The Republicans and neoliberals everywhere should be all for defunding these assholes. Their market solutions are finally actually happening. Somehow I don't think it'll go that way. Just think a moment. Some of us seem to agree with neoliberals and fascists. There's another strange perspective.

This comment should give us something to talk about. I have to go make dinner. have fun.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

snoopydawg's picture

@vtcc73

Are there really some of us who think behavior like that is what we want from elected leaders? Do any of us think that they, along with trump and his close henchmen, should not be held accountable? Do any of us think that because they had not been held accountable for the corruption of the previous 1487 days, they should get a pass on this one too? If there are please explain yourself and show your work.

Put Trump on trial and go from there, but just having everyone vote yes on impeachment in the house and then passed to the senate and they vote yes and they hold no trial is wrong. Same with the republicans that people want kicked out of congress without a trial. Especially since the other maven showed that it was legal for them to do it. All of the other people who have been arrested will get a trial. But if the leaders of the event get off then so should most of the people who were there, but didn’t do any violence. I just don’t like this every one is guilty atmosphere. It’s more like a lynch mob mentality.

ETA

I also want people like Stephen Miller, Sessions and others that decided to separate kids from their parents charged for it as well as every person in Trump’s administration that broke the law. But what are the chances of that happening? Slim I would say. Trump is going to be held accountable for what he has done, but not for what he really should be charged with. If banks won’t do business with Trump or his family they all are paying price for their misdeeds. But again not for all the right reasons.

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12 users have voted.

People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam killed Mr. Hanky Santa Poo.

@vtcc73
Until I see video of Trump caling on them to attack congress, I stand by my statement that he is not legally responsible. Morally, is something different? Do you want laws enforcing morality? Congress to decree what is allowed to be said? First and foremost, the First amendment protects political speech.

Again, the only footage I have seen is of Trump telling them to protest peacefully. I'm quite sure the morons thought they were patriots stopping a Congress that had been taken over by Socialists. Socialists like Pelosi, Schumer and Biden. I'd laugh if that thought didn't want to make me vomit.

Yes, there will be more riots because of the Democrats using this as an excuse to stop trump from running again. he probably would have won in 2014 after Biden and Harris, Schumer, Durbin and Pelosi and Schiff have destroyed the working class totally. Now there will be some tame poodle of the banks so that the banks can rule for a while with their right hand instead of their Left hand. The only losers are the working stiffs.

I am not defending the Moron in Chief. I'm defending the rule of law.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

snoopydawg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

some of the protesters were already at the capital trying to get in while Trump was still speaking. The pipe bombs were also planted before he finished. Looks like the justice department is going to make a statement on who was involved in the event. I posted a tweet in the EBs.

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People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam killed Mr. Hanky Santa Poo.

@snoopydawg
or it's guilt by association.
On the Cusp? Do you have input here?

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

Trump is like the Mafia Don who never comes out and says directly, "if you don't pay your protection money, I'm going to burn down the Capitol building." Instead, the Don says, "nice Capitol you got here. Be a real shame if something was to happen to it."

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@snoopydawg he should have and will have his day in court if DOJ decides he should be indicted for inciting a riot, insurrection, or whatever. I would call for nothing else. I'm a firm believer in the rule of law. I consider the founders' intent of forming a government on the rule of law as opposed to the rule of man - monarchy - to be their most important, mostly untainted, idea.

That justice in America is justice anymore, if it ever was, is arguable. Political control over the justice system has carved out exceptions for presidents among others. There are real concerns over the wisdom of pursuing previous presidents for crimes although the near lawlessness has worn so thin that it's easy to argue there is no justice for those harmed by the actions of every president since at least WW2. I suspect trump will skate too. The reasons are likely to have little to do with whether his speech met the standards of inciting insurrection. This is a political choice not following the rule of law. The rule of law is applied unevenly which compromises and claim that our system follows the rule of law at all. The examples are many suggesting there is little actual justice in America. The rule of law for me but not for the isn't just in any way, shape, or form.

So, we are left to corporations and individuals to exact an accounting from a lawless president. The politicians won't. Market based solutions. The politicians won't allow the justice system to function without interference. Even if they pols didn't interfere interests of those who control the justice system often make political or corruption based choices to not pursue the rich and powerful. The short version is that there is no rule of law as justice is administered in the US. It's sad that corporations with their own interests are the only ones actually muzzling these assclowns. I find it absurd to suggest that this is wrong but a politically gelded justice system is the proper venue to do what it won't/can't.

Every institution in the US is so riddled with corruption that the system only appears to be functioning. It's no wonder people can't make any sense of what is happening. The only thing people get from the system is excuses why those we elected to operate the government can't do their jobs. Sooner or later people will make their own justice. Then we could be in the strange position of trumpistas and the rest of us busting into the Capitol together. Just about every American has a grievance with government. The only thing keeping us from coming together is the decades of scapegoating, punching down, lies, and propaganda that keep us fighting among ourselves.

One additional point. Again, I'm not an attorney. I've read several opinions from attorneys who should know that an actual call for an attack is not required. The precedent is from a Supreme Court case IIRC. The standards are less rigid than I thought they would be. These lawyers might be wrong. I don't really know but there is a certain logic to not requiring a call for a specific action. The "reasonable person" type of standard circumvents the weasel defenses of "but I didn't actually say the words attack or insurrection." The intent of the gathering and the speeches was pretty clear. YMMV

All-in-all excellent essay, good discussion. I appreciate the varied perspectives even when we have differences.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73
Has W accounted for torture of prisoners? And lying to Congress? IIRC "Lying to Congress" is an actual crime that people have been prosecuted for. No, they are hot for the rogue who wouldn't obey his masters.
The ballot box got rid of him but the real owners of America have to make an example of him. I'll bet his wanting to withdraw from Afghanistan is the real reason for this hate. After all, why should the one percent hate him? He gave them their tax cuts. Why the proscription? Were the Capitol invaders really Trumpkins? Or CIA agents dressed as Trumpkins? People forget the Sons of Liberty used to dress as Indians so as to deflect retaliation. Of course, there are enough confederate idiots to make it very plausible. Some of them actually ate bleach after Trump told them to! There are always Jim Jones believers. Makes one doubt survival of the fittest.

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness is in the past is not what must be done now and in the future. Those things are the foundation on which our current mess was built. It's a 40+ year high pile of malfeasance, incompetence, corruption, and our complicity. It is up to us as citizens to demand accountability of our elected representatives. Between a rigged system and our refusal to hold them accountable, we have become partners in the crimes. The change has to start somewhere. But not now many say. He only has 8 more days. We need to heal. How long do we want to wait? Would a nuke strike on Iran be the bridge too far? Maybe we'll be lucky and only 500,000 people will die of COVID or the financial system collapses or the poverty and unemployment rates double. Where do you draw the line?

CIA agents as fake trumpistas? Like we need fake ones to do fatally stupid stuff. Once there were Indian look-a-likes? Really? Please. Don't degrade yourself and taint your arguments with trump-like conspiracy foolishness. You're better than that.

That's where I began my comments on this essay. There has been a lot of this bilge on these pages lately. I feel less confident, as if that's possible, we have a way towards sanity every time I see idiocy like this from good people I know and respect. It's a sign we've going over the edge into the bleach drinking stupidity of those who buy completely into trump. All it takes is to believe, really, fervently believe whatever pops into our heads or some muppet on TV or the intertubes says. Run the spin cycle inside our cranium and it is not only possible but, yeah, that could be true so it must be. Those are thoughts best rejected instead of letting them through the filter in our brains that's supposed to stop them from getting out. The there they are out in the air we all breathe or spewed on the page of some website. The infection spreads. Step back from the edge.

I knew we were in serious trouble when a good friend and excellent internist and his wife were breathlessly telling us how Putin wrecked Hillary's campaign and stole the 2016 election for trump with $100,000 in FacePalm ads. That was less than a month before we moved to Cuenca. It was also the point at which I fully understood just how discombobulated people were. I was completely fine with our decision to GTFO of the asylum. That's not why I wanted to move but I knew it was time right then. Three years later conditions and people are FUBAR at best. So when I hear people saying, "Oh we didn't hold W or Obama accountable. Why now, why trump?" I want to puke.

And with that, it's my time to step away for awhile. I'm too invested in a futile fight. Y'all have fun. Ya hear?

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73
If they can do it to Trump they could do it to a future Bernie or Tulsie. Impeach them for made up reasons without even a trial. Order a strike on Iran? Why didn't he do it before in the heat of battle? Hey. I say we impeach Joe Biden as soon as he's sworn in because I say he's planning to rape Nancy Pelosi.

Once you abandon fair trials, rules of evidence and start Soviet show trials, we had all better hide.

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3 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness Try again. You missed the mark. I don't care about the identity or party affiliation of trump's successors who do the things that are getting trump impeached a second time or all the things that probably should have gotten his predecessors impeached and convicted. If anything the list of valid reasons are too long to print. I have no party and I have no allegiance to any politician or other person. When any president fails to perform the duties of their office or to preserve and protect the Constitution they deserve to be removed. It's really simple. I meant it when I say I support the rule of law. The rule of man and cult of personality is a dead end road to loss actual loss of liberty and not the dreamed up BS that gets tossed around so casually.

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3 users have voted.

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@vtcc73
I don't like the way he did them, but that's entirely different.

Dems will regret making him a martyr instead of just letting him go out as the clown he is.
You can't have a trial in 8 days. Even in a traffic court.

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2 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@vtcc73

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

@UntimelyRippd gin and bleach would. This day is too nice, before thee rain anyway, and outdoors is far preferable to watching people twisted in knots.

Well, that's a surprise. The rain showed up sooner than expected. Still better in the rain too.

Take care. Nice to see you around Rippd.

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3 users have voted.

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

snoopydawg's picture

@vtcc73

So, we are left to corporations and individuals to exact an accounting from a lawless president. The politicians won't. Market based solutions. The politicians won't allow the justice system to function without interference. Even if they pols didn't interfere interests of those who control the justice system often make political or corruption based choices to not pursue the rich and powerful. The short version is that there is no rule of law as justice is administered in the US. It's sad that corporations with their own interests are the only ones actually muzzling these assclowns. I find it absurd to suggest that this is wrong but a politically gelded justice system is the proper venue to do what it won't/can't.

Trump has been pushing the boundaries on the law since he became president. His war on immigrants, separating kids from parents, sterilizing women against their will, and his attacks on the less fortunate in the country, all of these things were not enough for companies to drop Trump and his fellow enablers in the GOP? McConnell doesn't get a pass for signing on to impeachment after he stayed silent on all of Trump's other criminal acts. NO ONE GETS A PASS who did not step up until now when it was 'safe' for them to do so. Should he be punished for creating the violence at the capital? Yes. However, his speech shouldn't be the deciding factor because it is protected by his st amendment. He did not tell them to riot violently. He said peaceful. His tweet telling them to stay peaceful, not to harm officers and to go home were cancelled by Twitter because 'they said that he is inciting violence.' Well he wasn't actually doing that was he? Nope, but they took it down anyway.

I find it absurd to suggest that this is wrong but a politically gelded justice system is the proper venue to do what it won't/can't.

Let the courts decide on his guilt. If a grand jury has been impaneled for the rioters then lets do one for Trump.

The precedent is from a Supreme Court case IIRC. The standards are less rigid than I thought they would be. These lawyers might be wrong.

The SC upheld the espionage charges against Eugene Debs for speaking out against WWI. A few others went to prison too under that charge, but Debs was the most prominent person to do so. He ran for president of the US while he was jailed. I don't know if that is the case you are referring to, but I think the Debs decision was wrong. Jailed for free speech?

I am not saying that Trump should get off free of charges. But let's do it right and not from a point of view of revenge. Not saying that you or anyone here is thinking that way, just a lot of people in general.

Trump Hotel in NYC might be in trouble if the Biden fed doesn't renew his lease. NYC is cutting all ties with the Trump organization. Good, but for the right reason now, but not for the right reasons before? As always it is the hypocrisy that does me in.

And in case anyone thinks that I am defending Trump, that I am a Trumper or just have my head in the sand, that is not true. I want justice done. And I want it done the right way. If companies had pulled their donations to all republicans when we found out about the children in detention centers I bet that shit would have been remedied right away. Or any of the other heinous things that republicans have taken advantage of Trump and doing.

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3 users have voted.

People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam killed Mr. Hanky Santa Poo.

@snoopydawg The Espionage Act is a contemporary of another attempt at a sedition act, Wilson's gifts to us. It survived because it was too good a weapon to use against foes of the government and not as obviously hazardous to democratic government.

I don't think you are a trump supporter or are defending him. We have a genuine disagreement and different perspectives. The hand wringing combined with all of the excuses for inaction are wearing thin. Piss or get off the pot is good advice. No excuses.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg Pasta Jardula, Fiorella Isabel, and Jonathan Mayorca of the Convo Couch were on the ground covering Trump's speech which was in front of the White House. They had come to DC to participate in the Force The Vote and the Julian Assange rallies. According to the Conv Couch, long before Trump finished his speech, the Capitol had already been breached by the protestors, some of whom were actually let into the Capitol.

In addition, Max Blumenthal of the Gray Zone was already at the Capitol to cover the certification of the election. One thing Blumenthal noted was that the storming of the Capitol appeared to be a military operation.

So it wasn't as if there was some kind of special advanced force or like shock troops that had planned without anyone else knowing to break into the Capitol, but such a disproportionate percentage of this group was former military, former law enforcement, or current law enforcement that they began rappelling up the sides of the Capitol with ropes, and they made it up the side of the Capitol in seconds. It was like a military style operation, and Ashli Babbitt herself was in the US Air Force. She had military experience, and for her, it seemed like it was just another mission.

It is now coming out that a significant number of people who stormed the Capitol were either current or former military or even off duty police officers.

Journalist Max Blumenthal shared Craft’s post on Twitter and agreed that officers flashing badges to allow Capitol access was possible.

“I did not see off duty cops flashing badges to gain access to the Capitol, but I saw plenty of guys in police tactical gear (which can be purchased by private citizens) around,” Blumenthal tweeted. “And I witnessed Capitol PD shaking hands and fraternizing with MAGA types, as they've done in the past.”

Further, a number of MSM sites are now reporting that FBI and other agencies were aware in advance that there might be violence at the Capitol and had notified the Capitol police of these potential security risks. The Capitol police turned down offer of additional support at least twice.

There is a lot of blame to go around. Whether or not Trump had advance knowledge of the crowd storming the Capitol has not been shown as of yet. However, a direct connection between his speech and the cause of the riots at the Capitol has not been demonstrated by publicly available information.

Further we should be aware that any time there is a large gathering of people addressing the government for whatever reason, there is a very good chance that there will be bad actors among the crowd in order to enable crack downs upon protest. At least one known agent provocateur has been identified as being in the crowd at the Capitol.

Click on the tweet below to read the entire thread. It is very enlightening.

Things may not always be what they seem. We may never know the whole truth behind the storming of the Capitol. This is not to defend Trump for his part, but we have already learned there may be far more to this than just his speech.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

edg's picture

@gulfgal98

On Dec. 8, someone made a simultaneous transfer of 28.15 bitcoins — worth more than $500,000 at the time — to 22 different virtual wallets, most of them belonging to prominent right-wing organizations and personalities.

Now cryptocurrency researchers believe they have identified who made the transfer, and suspect it was intended to bolster those far-right causes. U.S. law enforcement is investigating whether the donations were linked to the Jan. 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol.

Right-wing figures and websites, including VDARE, the Daily Stormer and Nick Fuentes, received generous donations from a bitcoin account linked to a French cryptocurrency exchange, according to research done by software company Chainalysis, which maintains a repository of information about public cryptocurrency exchanges and whose tools aid in government, law enforcement and private sector investigations.

Source: Yahoo News - Large bitcoin payments to right-wing activists a month before Capitol riot linked to foreign account

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Shahryar's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

https://www.kiro7.com/news/trending/trumps-speech-what-did-he-say-minute...

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@Shahryar @Shahryar

I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.

Obviously incitement to riot. /s
EDIT: proles do not have any right to protest. I will concede that the flying of the flag of treason can legally be barred, just like the twisted cross is barred in Germany.
As I've said, much like an MLK speech but less coherent.

Much of what he says is true, but over the top in Trumpian fashion. Much is bullshit like you hear from every politician. Dominion voting machines. Didn't we at TOP say the same thing when Bush beat Gore? Only it was Diebold machines.
Nothing in that speech can be considered incitement to riot.

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5 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

CB's picture

CS in AZ's picture

I hate to admit this truth, but I will. I too have been personally pissed off that our votes as Arizona voters were to be tossed aside simply because Trump lost. What a bunch of arrogant assh@les!

I do not have the energy or knowledge or research skills that you do to pull together all this information about what all happened in detail, so I really appreciate your efforts. Thanks!

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edg's picture

@CS in AZ

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Bollox Ref's picture

That congresspersons are wholly owned subsidiaries. You'd hope that they would wear the logos with pride.

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7 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

edg's picture

@Bollox Ref

should be tattooed on their foreheads. That way, the corporation gets a new advertising medium and we know who owns the politician. Win-win!

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5 users have voted.

@edg

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1 user has voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

RantingRooster's picture

I would agree about using the term Insurrection but I think vtcc73 makes a good case against Sedition.

Sedition - (Definition from Nolo’s Plain-English Law Dictionary)

The federal crime of advocating insurrection against the government through speeches and publications. Sedition charges are rare because freedom of speech, press, and assembly are guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, and because treason or espionage charges can be made for overt acts against the nation's security.

Insurrection (18 U.S. Code § 2383 - Rebellion or insurrection)

Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

All those "groups" like WallStreetOnParade wrote about the other day:

It is perhaps the height of irony that the groups behind the event that led to the worst battle in the U.S. Capitol building since the British attempted to burn the place down in 1814 (during the War of 1812) call themselves Peaceably Gather, Moms for America, and the Rule of Law Defense Fund. Those names stand right alongside a group that acknowledges what it expects to go down: WildProtest.com.

Snip

ABC News reports that while the January 6 demonstration “was publicly promoted as being organized by groups not directly tied to the president’s team, including ‘Women for America First’ and ‘Stop the Steal,’ behind the scenes White House staff and close allies of the president, including former Trump campaign staff, worked with the organizers to plan and promote the events on Wednesday that would ultimately erupt into the deadly storming of the Capitol, sources said.”

Could be targets for criminal prosecution for "assisting" (financially) the Chaos at the Capital Insurrection. (Kyle at Secular Talk calls it the "Diet Coup" lol!)

Documented gives us more insight into "the Rule of Law Defense Fund":

The Rule of Law Defense Fund (RLDF), a 501(c)(4) arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association (RAGA), helped organize the protest preceding the deadly attack on the U.S. Capitol that took place on January 6, 2021.

As a 501(c)(4), RLDF is not required to reveal its donors. RLDF has received at least $175,000 from the Koch-backed Freedom Partners. Other RLDF donors include Judicial Crisis Network, the Rule of Law Project, and the Edison Electric Institute.

RAGA is a 527 political organization that helps elect Republican attorneys general and can accept unlimited contributions from wealthy individuals and corporations. As previously reported by Documented, RAGA received significant funding from numerous corporations in 2020, including Koch Industries ($375k), Comcast Corporation ($200k), Walmart ($140k), Home Depot ($125k), Amazon ($100k), TikTok ($75k), 1-800 Contacts ($51k), Chevron ($50k), The National Rifle Association ($50k), Monsanto ($50k), Facebook ($50k), Fox Corporation ($50k), Uber ($50k), Coca Cola ($50k), Exxon ($50k), and Google ($25k).

It could be argued, all of these organizations are linked financially to the RLDF which could be subject to prosecution for Insurrection under 18 U.S. Code § 2383, for providing "assistance" to the insurrection.

That's why I say "insurrection", because we can deploy a much, much wider net and prosecute the dark money people who supported it.

Drinks

(edit, added the word "term" between "the" and "insurrection". Crazy )

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

snoopydawg's picture

@RantingRooster

Lots of people are writing about the dark money behind the protests. A few people have already been fired or punished for going to the capital, but it’s looking like the bigger ones will not be charged. Meanwhile lots of little people will be the ones who do pay the price. Unjust.

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8 users have voted.

People are going to be sick for the rest of their lives and the people responsible will pay no price.

Sam killed Mr. Hanky Santa Poo.

edg's picture

@RantingRooster

I used the word sedition informally to mean seditious conspiracy (see below). Definitely applicable to the rioters, who physically delayed the execution of the Electoral Count Act and seized US property. I would argue that the Congresspersons' words and actions led to the physical acts and they are therefore co-conspirators. That's unlikely to hold up in court, but it's fun to think about.

18 U.S. Code § 2384 - Seditious conspiracy

If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

Since the statute says "any law of the United States", even the "peaceful" members of the crowd could be charged -- trespass or failure to obey a lawful order or ...

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RantingRooster's picture

@edg I didn't see that, and it's the fricking next statute. Doah! What a moron I am.

Let's add that one in there too for good measure!

Drinks

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

mimi's picture

@RantingRooster
I listen to the article of impeachment debate going on right now in Congress, and I miss an open thread who would comment on the debate. It makes me so sick. How could you all stand so much divisions?

And somewhere in this thread someone said that we all know the well-known c99P members, who lie a lot.

I almost never understand who lies here and who does not. I just had the impression that too many 'Republics' are members here. I think i should be glad to not understand too much. My Republic was Federal and German, the other one used to be German and Democratic. So, I guess I should not being too irritated about all those Republics here.

Have a good day, if you can. Watching the images of DC today in front of the White House, I was reminded of a photo, (can't find it to scan it in), when my former husband holds my son in his arms, standing in front of the White House before a sign "White House Closed on New Years Day". Both with a big smile, That was in the late seventies our first trip to the US, my son being not yet nine years old. These were the days, where people could make a tour through the White House and nothing made you scared.

It is really devastating to see what has become of this country right now. I hope it will swing back to a more happy time.

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2 users have voted.

"heh, as they say, if you don't dig the blues, you got a hole in your soul" - JS

RantingRooster's picture

@mimi

at least you are one of the morons I can understand

and made my day! Thank you Mimi.

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

@edg than the crime. I wouldn't be surprised to see DOJ take that tack as they put these cases together. Facing 20 years for conspiracy might loosen some already loose bow...tongues.

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4 users have voted.

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

@edg

apply to to the people who were attacking the federal courthouse in Portland on
a nightly basis for months on end last year as well, correct?

Actually, that went considerably beyond "conspiring".

What's good for the goose... right?

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Cassiodorus's picture

Let's also have a shout-out for Hero of the Senate Challenge Ted Cruz, who used the Georgia runoff elections as a fundraising tool — FOR HIS OWN CAMPAIGN FUND!!

-- is that we live in a world in which great masses of suckers are so desperate for some purpose to be found in a life that was hollowed out by consumerism and left for dead by neoliberal economic policy (Allison J. Pugh calls it the "tumbleweed society") that they're willing to believe in fraudulent religions and vote for a whole fraudulent politics because there's nothing else there. And since there's nothing there, the politicians are grifters.

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"Be a loyal plastic robot for a world that doesn't care." -- Frank Zappa

and even fewer, apparently, in the world at large have even bothered to acquaint themselves with what Cruz, Lankford and other objecting senators were proposing to *do* or their stated reasons for doing so - here is their statement in full, issued prior to Jan. 6.

As far as I'm concerned they were acting in good faith - doing the job of representing their constituents and upholding the Constitution. If Goldman Sachs won't contribute to them I certainly will.

WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Ted Cruz (R-Texas), Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), James Lankford (R-Okla.), Steve Daines (R-Mont.), John Kennedy (R-La.), Marsha Blackburn (R-Tenn.), and Mike Braun (R-Ind.), and Senators-Elect Cynthia Lummis (R-Wyo.), Roger Marshall (R-Kan.), Bill Hagerty (R-Tenn.), and Tommy Tuberville (R-Ala.) issued the following statement in advance of the Electoral College certification process on January 6, 2021:

"America is a Republic whose leaders are chosen in democratic elections. Those elections, in turn, must comply with the Constitution and with federal and state law.

"When the voters fairly decide an election, pursuant to the rule of law, the losing candidate should acknowledge and respect the legitimacy of that election. And, if the voters choose to elect a new office-holder, our Nation should have a peaceful transfer of power.

"The election of 2020, like the election of 2016, was hard fought and, in many swing states, narrowly decided. The 2020 election, however, featured unprecedented allegations of voter fraud, violations and lax enforcement of election law, and other voting irregularities.

"Voter fraud has posed a persistent challenge in our elections, although its breadth and scope are disputed. By any measure, the allegations of fraud and irregularities in the 2020 election exceed any in our lifetimes.

"And those allegations are not believed just by one individual candidate. Instead, they are widespread. Reuters/Ipsos polling, tragically, shows that 39% of Americans believe ‘the election was rigged.' That belief is held by Republicans (67%), Democrats (17%), and Independents (31%).

"Some Members of Congress disagree with that assessment, as do many members of the media.

"But, whether or not our elected officials or journalists believe it, that deep distrust of our democratic processes will not magically disappear. It should concern us all. And it poses an ongoing threat to the legitimacy of any subsequent administrations.

"Ideally, the courts would have heard evidence and resolved these claims of serious election fraud. Twice, the Supreme Court had the opportunity to do so; twice, the Court declined.

"On January 6, it is incumbent on Congress to vote on whether to certify the 2020 election results. That vote is the lone constitutional power remaining to consider and force resolution of the multiple allegations of serious voter fraud.

"At that quadrennial joint session, there is long precedent of Democratic Members of Congress raising objections to presidential election results, as they did in 1969, 2001, 2005, and 2017. And, in both 1969 and 2005, a Democratic Senator joined with a Democratic House Member in forcing votes in both houses on whether to accept the presidential electors being challenged.

"The most direct precedent on this question arose in 1877, following serious allegations of fraud and illegal conduct in the Hayes-Tilden presidential race. Specifically, the elections in three states-Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina-were alleged to have been conducted illegally.

"In 1877, Congress did not ignore those allegations, nor did the media simply dismiss those raising them as radicals trying to undermine democracy. Instead, Congress appointed an Electoral Commission-consisting of five Senators, five House Members, and five Supreme Court Justices-to consider and resolve the disputed returns.

"We should follow that precedent. To wit, Congress should immediately appoint an Electoral Commission, with full investigatory and fact-finding authority, to conduct an emergency 10-day audit of the election returns in the disputed states. Once completed, individual states would evaluate the Commission's findings and could convene a special legislative session to certify a change in their vote, if needed.

"Accordingly, we intend to vote on January 6 to reject the electors from disputed states as not ‘regularly given' and ‘lawfully certified' (the statutory requisite), unless and until that emergency 10-day audit is completed.

"We are not naïve. We fully expect most if not all Democrats, and perhaps more than a few Republicans, to vote otherwise. But support of election integrity should not be a partisan issue. A fair and credible audit-conducted expeditiously and completed well before January 20-would dramatically improve Americans' faith in our electoral process and would significantly enhance the legitimacy of whoever becomes our next President. We owe that to the People.

"These are matters worthy of the Congress, and entrusted to us to defend. We do not take this action lightly. We are acting not to thwart the democratic process, but rather to protect it. And every one of us should act together to ensure that the election was lawfully conducted under the Constitution and to do everything we can to restore faith in our Democracy."

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@Blue Republic

The Electoral Count Act of 1887 was passed, and embedded in Title 3, Chapter 1 of the US Code, to deal with precisely this situation. Nobody wanted another long-drawn-out and potentially partisan investigation. The idea was to require immediate up-or-down decisions on the validity, or lack thereof, of the votes.

There have been no successful challenges under these rules.

Now if they want to get together an investigative commission after the fact, that's their business. But it will change nothing.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven

proposing to do it quickly, in a ten day or so time frame, a lot of investigating having been done, but not examined by courts or by congress.

Not sure it was actually feasible to do that, certainly not the ideal way to deal with it.

I keep coming back to if there is nothing to hide and the election as clean as its defenders contend, why the resistance to transparency and why would they not welcome court cases that would (according to them) prove them spotless and upstanding and their detractors idiots?

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@Blue Republic
I recall that in High school, in Illinois being taught that Tilden probably should have been President.

Calling for those senators to be removed from office for that is -- I can't think of a word bad enough --.
Vote them down, okay, but removal from office?

Why are c99'ers deifying Biden?

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I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

edg's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

Make your allegation specific. Most of us dislike or hate him. I didn't vote for him and don't like him. Besides, it wasn't a Biden supporter carrying a "Jesus cross" at the Capitol protest and implying Trump is the Second Coming. And it wasn't a Biden supporter carrying a Confederate flag in this photo or inside the Capitol building.

Photo: AFP

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@edg but while I'm here I still can't figure out why the cognitive dissonance hasn't killed the guy carrying the Stars and Bars wrapped in the US flag. Talk about confused.

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

edg's picture

@vtcc73

Although self-reflection doesn't appear to be highly valued by Trump supporters.

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@vtcc73 @vtcc73

Used to be a not uncommon sight nn Appalachian parts of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia.

More than a few people there have ancestors that fought on both sides - often
like to reaffirm their general patriotism while throwing in a
reminder that they don't take kindly to being screwed with by
interfering Yankees...

While generally pro-Union, those were the areas where (Missouri being another) where the war was sometimes neighbor against neighbor.

In that context, the two flags together could be regarded (and generally is, I think) as conciliatory and inclusive, not mutually exclusive.

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@Blue Republic but particularly in the south. Still, I doubt that guy in the middle of that angry crowd had reconciliation in mind.

I don't remember seeing the two intentionally flown together although I've often seen them in proximity. Just not recently. Appalachia would be one place I can imagine it as a real possibility.

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2 users have voted.

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

RantingRooster's picture

@Blue Republic Ted Cruz is citing numbers that don't even represent a majority. "Allegations", and yet all the courts that have looked at their "evidence" have all said, there is no evidence.

Ted Cruz, is my senator and he a lying POS. You're backing a guy that shut down the government just because he wanted to, not because it was required or necessary!

He's been fund raising off the Georgia races, basically committing fraud. But the fine print let's him get away with it, while creating a false narrative for his personal / political benefit. Without the fine print, it's straight up FRAUD!

If one has to use fine print to get away with a crime, the intent is criminal!

They guy is the Grand Poobah of the Texas Taliban Tea Party. Heck why didn't he sue the state of Texas that changed the elections laws by executive order by Gov. Abbott that extended early voting?

Why is he only challenging the states where the election went to Biden and not the states that change their election laws, BECAUSE of the healthcare emergency, that went for Trump?

Hypocrisy 101. That is Ted Cruz!

Gee, why the change all of a sudden... from the Texas Tribune:

Democratic voters in Texas were more likely to cast their ballots by mail than Republican voters in the last election.

Today, that may sound like a forgone conclusion, but that wasn’t the case four years ago. Absentee ballots, which only certain groups of Texans are eligible to use, have traditionally been a tool utilized by the GOP, and in 2016, counties reported that higher percentages of Republican voters cast absentee ballots than Democratic voters.

The reason for the swap? It came from the top. Experts and political operatives note that President Donald Trump spent months attacking the credibility of mail-in voting to his Republican base while national and state Democrats launched their largest-ever push to support the method as a safe option to vote in the pandemic.

Snip

“In previous elections, you had the state (Republican) party, you had whoever was at the top of the ticket, sending out ballot-by-mail applications to their [eligible] voters to get them to vote by mail,” Ryan said. “There’s always been a concerted effort on the part of Republicans to get as many people to vote by mail as they could.”

In 2020, however, those efforts were thwarted by both their own party’s leaders in Texas and Washington. In a rolling series of tweets and at rallies, President Donald Trump pushed concerns of widespread fraud — which are unsubstantiated — in mail-in ballots.

The "change" was Donald Trump.

“Trump told Republicans, ‘Don’t touch it,’” said Bob Stein, faculty director at the Rice University Center for Civic Leadership, which is studying voting patterns throughout this election cycle. “There was confusion, fear of the Postal Service, and the president made voting by mail like leprosy or something worse. And I thought at the time that it might suppress Republican turnout. It did not. It just simply made it necessary for a lot of Republican voters to figure out another way of voting.”

That message was echoed by Texas GOP leaders as well. Lt. Gov. Dan Patrick characterized efforts to expand mail-in voting during the pandemic as a “scam by Democrats” that would lead to “the end of America.”

Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton quoted a local prosecutor saying voting by mail “invites fraud.”

That's 180 degree change from 4 years ago, and it's a voting scam by republicans, like Ted Cruz, to sow FEAR.

Oh and gee, Goldman Sachs is the primary Wall Street Company that doesn't think curing cancer is a good business model! No wonder we can't have Healthcare for all, it's not a good business model...

The Mafia business model of Healthcare, pay or die in this country works wonders for Wall Street but not the American people!

Supporting Ted Cruz, who supports this Mafia Business model in American Healthcare, and 100% a hypocrite, well, would not be my choice.

Drinks

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

I believe this was something pointed out on Raising the other day, but ending corporate donations when we aren't in an election cycle is standard operating procedure. In other words, these companies want an "atta boy" for something they were going to do anyway.

Just throwing that out there.

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Just another Bozo on the bus.

enhydra lutris's picture

concept of seditin. Always overbraodly written, it has nonetheless been most selectively applied. It is applied to the behavior, writings and speech of lefties. The only exception was The Order and those charges were retroactively thrown out by the courts. Those invading the Capitol on the 6th were not lefties. Ergo, they cannot have committed sedition. QED

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

edg's picture

@enhydra lutris

I appreciate the irony in your comment. (IOKIYAR - It's OK If You're A Republican.)

In regard to the rioters who invaded the Capitol Building, I decided two or three days ago that sedition is not the proper term. The Feds agree. At least some of the insurrectionists will be charged under 18 U.S. Code § 2384 – Seditious conspiracy (see below; edited for conciseness). The rioters delayed the execution of the Electoral Count Act and also seized property of the United States, namely, the US Capitol Building and its contents.

"If two or more persons … in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States conspire to … by force prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both."

A Washington, D.C. federal prosecutor says his office is looking into possible seditious conspiracy charges as a part of a massive, "unprecedented" federal investigation into the January 6 assault on the U.S. Capitol.

Acting U.S. Attorney for the District of Columbia Michael Sherwin said Tuesday a "strike force" of senior national security and public corruption prosecutors within his office are investigating charges related to the "most heinous" acts that occurred at the Capitol. Sherwin said the team is investigating whether rioters coordinated and planned their assault, combing through travel records, financial information and communications.

Source: Federal prosecutors investigate possible seditious conspiracy charges in Capitol assault

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