Fox News Poll: Most Republicans say President Trump was robbed
In a shocking poll of registered voters conducted December 6 thru 9, 77% of Republican respondents believe the election was stolen from President Trump.
Among Democrats polled, 96% of women and 80% of men say it was not stolen.
Other results include:
- Trump's job rating: 52% disapprove
- Current economic conditions: 66% say fair or poor
- Country worse off than 4 years ago: 55% say worse
- Trump legacy as president: 60% say average, below average, or worst president evah
- Trump is strengthening or weakening democracy: 56% say weakening
- Should Trump run again: 57% say no
- Trump handling of coronavirus: 55% disapprove
Given those negatives 6 weeks after the election, it's mystifying why so many Republicans can't accept the fact that Biden legitimately won. And those numbers are from a Fox News poll, which many consider slanted in favor of Republican viewpoints. The latest Quinnipiac poll numbers are even worse for Trump.
Especially since 2020 was a resounding win for Biden, with 81 million votes (4.5% more than Trump) and with 74 more electoral votes (total 306, same as Trump electoral votes in 2016). Contrast Hillary's popular vote win in 2016 of 2.8 million and her electoral vote count of just 232.
In the 2016 election, Trump won the 3 Democratic-leaning swing states of Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin by just 106,000 votes. To a large extent, Trump was handed that slim win by disaffected Democrats that didn't like the way the DNC treated Bernie Sanders. In the 2020 election, however, Biden won those 3 Democratic-leaning states by more than a quarter million votes (255,000).
While Trump will continue causing trouble so as to raise funds for paying delinquent loans of $500 million on his hotel and golf properties, the 2020 election is over. For better or worse, Joe Biden legitimately won the election.
Pre-election Poll
Fox's presidential poll conducted just before the election (October 27 thru 29) had Biden leading Trump 52% to 44%. The November 3 results were Biden 51.4% to Trump's 46.9%. In other words, Biden performed about as expected and Trump picked up nearly 3%, which likely reflects the "hidden" Trump voters who won't publicly admit their support.
Trump's October disapproval of 54% was very close to December's 52%.
Comments
In an independent poll (mine)
A majority of voters think their votes mean nothing.
Doesn't stop them from trying though.
Perhaps we could re-define the meaning of democracy?
Include caveats about authorization without representation
or vice-a-versa.
good luck
question everything
Please define "authorization without representation". n/t
It's like voting for something
and getting nothing in return.
question everything
Ah.
Thanks for explaining. There are certainly good reasons for thinking that. I'm still waiting for Obama's hope and change to trickle down.
The election was rigged
to get the person the oligarchy wanted in place, elected. If they wanted Herr Drumpf, he would be showing as re-elected and the Biden folks would be back on Russiagate! Wake up - what’s going on is meaningless and only a ruse to distract the populace.
But if it gives you joy to hash it out and drone endlessly on and on, put your heart in it and give it everything you got!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Yes, I will drone endlessly on and on.
Thanks for that characterization. It means a lot to me.
I care about the election not because Biden won or Trump lost but because my home state of Michigan was accused of fraud. And my current state of Arizona was accused of fraud.
Frankly, I think you're flat out wrong in your claim that the election was rigged to get the person the oligarchy wanted in place elected. That borders on insanity.
If you want to say the oligarchy likes having two similar candidates who'll do their bidding, I'll buy that. The primaries are pretty good indications of that.
But phony claims about the general election are nonsensical. The oligarchy didn't care which candidate won because both of them serve the interests of the oligarchy instead of the people.
If you're tired of my essays, you're welcome to ignore them and write your own. I look forward to your continuing contributions to the content on caucus99percent.com.
I don't usually read your essays,
, but this one touched a nerve about how everyone is so caught up in the drama, which is the goal. Enjoy the roller coaster ride!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Future shocks
This is what I've been thinking. Have told my wife, "All this is for down the road."
Trump and his top minions are all fully aware that they lost the election. Trump and company are setting the table for later. Further, Trump comes out with pockets stuffed with cash. What's it up to now – over two hundred million dollars? It was last time I heard, which was a few days ago. Of course, he needs quite a bit more than that to even begin paying toward the principal on his German bank loans.
Doubt he's all that worried about the bank loans. One of the newly minted right-wing TV networks he's pushing will be glad to give him a bigly chunk of change for placing his orange mug in front of their cameras ...probably every day.
I'm concerned about future drama.
They are laying the groundwork now for challenging future elections -- 2022 and 2024 and beyond. If there's ever a viable 3rd party (slim hope, but I can dream), Republicans will start making fraud claims against it.
This is why the system must collapse
.
It is no longer viable. The drama will occur, but it will be to change the system, which is what will benefit all.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Trends
I read the the numbers at the Quinnipiac poll site. Two things stood out to me:
1) The "65+" category shows as quite a bit more dissatisfied with Trump than others, overall.
2) The "Hispanic" category shows more support for Trump than I expected.
Also standing out was that the 65+ group is not expecting much from Biden compared to other age groups. Probably it's their experience showing. I was surprised with the "Hispanic" numbers, although I shouldn't have been. While it's anecdotal, I've been seeing more conservative leanings from my Latinx friends and neighbors. I thought it was just me – maybe not.
59% disapproval among Latinx
seems relatively consistent with voting behavior and other opinion polls.
The lower numbers for seniors in this polls isn't consistent with swing states pre-election polling and where Trump did better than polls indicated.
@Marie
The senior numbers are what first grabbed my eye. Various Latinx numbers on other, but related, issues caught me off guard. For some reason I keep expecting Latinx folks to poll left (probably drank too much DNC tea over the years), but my own experience says otherwise.
Exit poll
CNN exit poll shows 65+ at 52 Trump to 47 Biden. That seems better for Biden than other polls I've seen. Do you have different numbers?
That CNN exit poll for 65+
voters at 52 Trump and 47 Biden is in line with other polls I've seen. My comment was in reference to the Q survey poll that you included in your essay. In that one. age 65+ approval for Trump is 45% to disapproval at 54%. Q is an inconsistent pollster -- and I'm never sure how much weight to give to any of their reports.
The Latino voters in Florida
are wealthy expats from places like Venezuela who want their plantations and easy lives back and hope the Republicans can overthrow the leftist governments.
I tend to agree with Col. Wilkerson, sometime guest of Paul Jay on theAnalysis--Jay is back online, yay!--that the Rs are trying to create enough chaos to make it impossible for Biden to govern. I doubt they will get away with it, but we will see.
I don't much like Biden, and didn't vote for him--Sanders write in--but he ain't no snowflake. His working class roots are real enough, and however much he may have sold out and compromised in his Senate career, he isn't any used car salesman/ real estate dealer/ insurance salesman grifter which is what most of the Tea Party are. I still remember the 2008 general election, when Biden went on the attack, eviscerated Sarah Palin, and delivered PA and OH for Obama, while the Rs were telling themselves that white guy isn't REALLY going to campaign for Obama, he'll just go through the motions like other Democratic VP candidates.
I would like one conservative Trumpist to please explain to me how it makes any kind of sense for the Dems to steal the election for Biden and not also for the Schumercrat senate candidates. If for no other reason, if there had been such a plot, Chuckie Schemer would have been in on it, and would have demanded that HIS picks also be benefitted so he could be majority leader with a newly elected amen chorus to back him up.
Mary Bennett
Quick answer
from a definite non trump non conservative is if the congress and particularly the senate is stacked with Republicans biden can use that as a perfect tried and true excuse to do nothing. Her would have been up against a repub senate if she'd won so why not get that same deal for biden. Works like a charm and has for decades.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Obama used it to great effect.
Despite having a Democratic Senate and House his first 2 years in office, Obama claimed he was restrained by Congress in what he could do. Then when Republicans took over in 2010, he had an ironclad excuse for doing nothing the next 6 years in office.
I do take your point, Izzy and edge,
but Chuckie really wants to be majority leader so he can send all kinds of goodies to Israel and have a big ceremony in Jerusalem where he gets to be proclaimed best friend of Israel since King David, or something like that. He went to a lot of trouble to round up dismal, corporate rentadems in a number of states; I am having trouble believing they were sacrificial lambs.
Mary Bennett
No doubt.
Anything for our buddy Israel, on whose behalf we have sent thousands of American soldiers to the slaughterhouse and have killed hundreds of thousands (at least) of Muslims.
my take
@edg
On another site, I commented on a post from someone who had lost faith in the media and in our elections. I'll copy it here to finish up our discussion. We'll not know about the election because the establishment opted not to prove or disprove the very substantial criticisms collected and filed by Sydney Powell (your fave). I happen to trust Sydney Powell, and I believe that the election was indeed stolen, largely through the Dominion & etc. vote counting algorithms and the purposeful disabling of an audit trail. If I may paraphrase Hillary Clinton, "They came; they cheated; they won." Probably they'll do it again in the Georgia runoff. Why not?
Anyway, I'm happy to agree to disagree and to wish you well.
~
Agreed on elections and media.
I’ve been dragging myself, kicking and screaming like a little boy, to this acceptance. The judicial system’s refusal to look at the evidence (see Sydney Powell’s attachments) in an open and impartial manner is the last straw. Truth, whatever it is concerning the election, lost to Power. Getting Trump out of the White House was more important than investigating and salvaging the integrity of our elections, the cornerstone of a democracy.
I do not think we will come back from this; it is our turn to slide from a civil democracy to strong arm rule. Increasing censorship is obvious and inevitable. Artists and progressives will be driven underground. Mr. House said, “Change will only come from outside the system.” I agree.
Phoenix Voice lists helpful changes under way in her city. Excellent. Local positive change is still possible (and may well outlive the systemic crash ahead). This is where we should focus. There isn’t much point in trying to change the big picture. Anyone who threatens radical change will be eliminated. Ask Julian Assange.
My advice is to keep your head down, think small, work toward practical achievements, tell the truth, and ride out the upheavals. It will be difficult, but we can share the trip. Thanks to all commenters!
FYI, Sidney, 2nd letter is i not y. n/t
Not fair
Comment on what was said not just the misspelling. Wetteru makes some good points.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Extremely fair
Wetterau and I have already discussed this matter in depth and agreed to disagree. You'll note he said that in his comment. As for spelling, he appreciates that I help him look better when names aren't misspelled in his comments.
One could think of it as
payback for 2000. Did the Republicans really think they were going to get away with that and there would be no payback?
I suspect the Chief Justice wants to be above partisan politics, nor, I think, does he want his name associated with that vulgarian, Donald Trump. Who, let us recall, just sent him an unqualified Associate Justice, in effect, a grad student, whom he will have to mentor. The terseness of the refusals to take up the alleged election fraud cases suggests to me that Roberts ain't too happy right now.
Mary Bennett
This has to make one wonder, MSM says Biden won
and Youtube bans video's saying the election was fraudulent. What more does one need?
https://caityjohnstone.medium.com/yet-another-major-escalation-in-establ...
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Thanks
Key point
Democrats rigged 2 primaries and they also admitted to the 1st one. How can anyone believe that rigging doesn’t go on in the general? People think that it did in the past. DHS. Microsoft. Israel. Who knows who else is involved with them?
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
And remember this, Barrat, Kavanaugh, Roberts all worked
for the Bush family in Florida for the 2000 recount debacle. Hunter Biden now under investigation by the DOJ comes out now, Barr another Bush disciple amirite.
Either way we the people lost in that we got evil. Me thinks Biden will eventually make tRump look good, I really do. And that my friend scares the shit outta me.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
You are
Barr worked for Bush 1 and gave pardons to people who had committed atrocities somewhere I don’t remember. Little help? Elliot Abrams was one of them and Trump brought him back for Venezuela. A few others were too. But yeah Barr is part of the swamp and has been since forever. His sitting on Hunter Biden’s investigation since early this year should be treated as in kind donation to Biden’s campaign. This story was censored before the election and Barr knew it was true. Trump has every right to be pissed about it.
But Biden himself is implicated in influence peddling and possibly money laundering. Hillary was under investigation for her emails and influence peddling with her foundation. Biden should have been for his roles in China and Ukraine. He still might be. Republicans gonna pay back democrats for Russia gate.
People are not paying attention to censorship that is getting worse by the day. Twitter censored the Biden story, but gave everyone and their dawg a platform to spew Russian propaganda. As always it’s the f’cking hypocrisy.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Trump and fraud, 2016 edition
Oct. 17, 2016: Donald Trump is warning supporters that widespread voter fraud could cost him the election.
Oct. 22, 2016: Trump says voter fraud is 'okay' if the votes are for him.
Nov. 29, 2016: President-elect Donald Trump alleged that "millions of people" voted illegally for Hillary Clinton.
Sound familiar? I really don't understand how you people can keep believing anything that comes out of the mouth of Trump. He's a fraud and a liar who makes Biden look like an honest man.
Just so we’re clear
I don’t believe Trump. Nor Biden of course. There is so much more happening than just the stolen election accusations. The censorship ties into both it and Russia Gate.
It’s also just about distracting people. Since Trump got elected the media, democrats and their fans have focused 4 years on what he said, tweets or did while congress passed the tax cuts, republicans rolled back a lot of Obama’s last minute legislation. Now we have COVID and a wrecked economy while congress dithers and Trump has the media and his fans focusing on the stolen election meme. Who’s paying attention to congress? Besides us that is. From the pussyhat marches to what’s happening now it’s all tied in.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I'm not sure what gives you the impression that I
believe anything tRump says, in this case it's both him and the government blowing hot air.
Imagine having a choice for prez of either Donnie the dumb or dementia Joe and thinking we had a honest election, that's funny
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Honest election
I AM claiming that other than a few miscreants committing fraud for their own reasons, there was no widespread vote fraud in the 2020 election. That is a provable fact.
I am NOT claiming that the process for selecting lesser of two evils candidates is honest and appropriate. There is strong evidence it is not.
I believe you are confusing the two separate things. It is entirely possible to have an honest election as far as counting votes. Counting is simple math, after all. The problem is that we don't control the people who control Candidate A and Candidate B.
All this means is that 77%
of Trump voters, including Mr. Trump, can't wrap their brains around the fact that Trump lost to by their standards a non-entity. Doesn't seem that much different from the Hillary voters, including HER, that couldn't wrap their brains around the fact that she lost to a nincompoop. Both have come up with baseless, ludicrous claims of election interference and fraud to explain the results. (Recall that in 2016, and for some period of time afterwards, Trump claimed that he'd actually received five million more votes than were counted.)
So, the RWNJs will have their version of the pink pussy hat demonstrations while DC business as usual will continue. Theater for the masses who are too stupid, lazy, or ignorant to wrap their brains around how they've been screwed by unacceptable politicians and unacceptable policies for the past forty years.
I agree 90%.
Hillary and the Dems went off the deep end against Trump when he won in 2016. The "Reistance". "Democracy Dies in Darkness". Full Maddow. They earned this payback.
But the 10% I disagree with is that Trump made a contribution in 2016. He started proclaiming the election was rigged and the only way he'd lose was through fraud months before the 2016 election. And then claimed after that 3 or 5 million votes were stolen from him and that's why he lost the popular vote.
Okay -- guess I tend to tune
out much of Trump self-aggrandizing BS as I only heard his post election claim that he'd been robbed of 5 million votes.
Note: Johnson/Weld and McMullin took a combined total of 5.3 million votes, approximately 4 million more than the Lib 2012 totals. However, unlike Clinton etal. who claimed that the GRN votes belonged to HER, Trump merely cited 4-5 million without ascribing them to the Libs.
"For better or worse, Joe Biden legitimately won the election."
If that is actually the case - focussing here on "legitimately" - then can you or anyone else explain the resistance on the part of state election officials (and Dominion) to disclosing the information that would enable some closure to take place regarding them?
The situation is somewhat akin to a criminal case, say a DUI, in that the government is in control of the bulk of the evidence, yet unlike a criminal case where the prosecutors are obligated to make that evidence available to a defendant in that, unless the case is allowed to proceed to discovery, the government gets to sit on the bulk of potential evidence while claiming that things should not proceed to trial (in fairness, some information would not be releasable without a court order). Thus allowing the defendants to contend that plaintiffs haven't presented enough evidence to show a reasonable likelihood of prevailing so the case should not be allowed to proceed...
If, in the interest of actually bringing about some resolution and clarity to the situation, things were allowed to proceed to at least discovery then plaintiffs would either find something definitive supporting their claims or would not. If they chose to and were allowed to proceed on weak evidence and ended up losing then in far more people's eyes the states whose actions are being questioned would be vindicated.
The outcomes of *either* fraud and/or gross failures of management, should they exist, being brought to light or, upon full investigation and maximal disclosure, be found not to have occurred, would seem far more beneficial for society than the current uncertainty.
As things stand now, those challenging the results are being accused of raising (unjustifiably) doubts about the integrity of the voting process, but is it not the *actions* of the SoS's of the states in question by resisting disclosure that is doing just that?
BTW - since you have declined to respond when asked elsewhere, I'll ask you again: How is it plausible that in PA, where the aggregate vote for candidates (over all 18 PA CD's) in House races was +85,000 Republican, that Trump would lose the PA popular vote by over 80,000?
Election Fraud Lies: Pennsylvania Poll Workers Cast 200,000 Illegal Ballots for Biden