"We have to remove Trump by any means necessary"

"We have to remove Trump by any means necessary"

I like Noam Chomsky a lot, and tonight, I listened to an interview he gave in which he waggled his finger at the Left and pointed out how our refusal to compromise will literally bring about the end of human civilization. Chomsky is a hard-core leftist, but there’s no denying that he’s making liberal talking points here. We have to remove Trump by any means necessary. By any means necessary. I’ve uttered those words myself at one point.

Quick question: how come “by any means necessary” doesn’t include Medicare For All? How come it doesn’t include a Green New Deal? If you need leftist support, and if these things would give you leftist support, then why don’t they fall under the umbrella of “any means necessary?” Why aren’t you hammering Biden day and night to make them a part of his platform?

Why is the “any means necessary” rhetoric only used to justify a serious moral breach?

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You’re willing to vote for Joe even if you knew with absolute certainty that he assaulted someone, but Medicare for All is too much to ask? Even if it saves lives? Even though it’s wildly popular and would almost certainly guarantee that you win the election? I thought we had to remove Trump by any means necessary!

The liberal response to this is usually, “Because we would lose the moderates. We can’t embrace Medicare For All because we’ll lose the moderates.”

Okay. Well, then clearly, the moderates don’t think we have to remove Trump by any means necessary. So, why should I?

Tell me, dear liberal, why are you here, insisting that I have to accept 68 000 deaths every year instead of yelling at the moderates? Why aren’t you out there telling them to suck it up and pay their taxes because removing Trump has to be our first priority?

It’s almost like you don’t actually believe that we have to remove Trump at any cost. You just use that as a line to make the Left sit down and shut up. If the cost is people dying from a lack of health care or Big Oil polluting with impunity, that’s fine. But if the cost is rich people paying slightly higher taxes, well that price is just too high, and I guess we have to accept fascism. Speaking of which…

Tell me something else: do you think the moderates are stupid?
I ask because if Trump were truly the existential threat to democracy you claim him to be, don’t you think the moderates would pay those extra taxes? Isn’t this the perfect time to make them accept the changes we desperately need?
And if the answer is no — if you honestly think the so-called moderates would sacrifice democracy to keep their wallets fat — then why are you placating them? They are part of the problem.
Do you want to know what I think? I think Trump isn’t an existential threat to democracy because you can’t be an existential threat to something that doesn’t exist. It’s well documented. The average citizen has pretty much zero influence on public policy.

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Daenerys's picture

Why are Dems always courting moderate and right-wing voters, and not leftists?? I just don't get it. SMDH

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26 users have voted.

This shit is bananas.

Daenerys's picture

@Daenerys It's fucking bullshit what they did to the Greens in Wisconsin. Just because the DNC didn't want them on the ballot? They did the same thing to the Libertarians in some states. Forgetting for a moment that Libertarians are just as shitty as the Repugs at this point. I'm just so fucking angry. Democracy, my left tit. Diablo

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33 users have voted.

This shit is bananas.

@Daenerys
Pleasantry

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19 users have voted.

"When will our conscience's grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?" Eleanor Roosevelt

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

@Daenerys That's why we are the targets.

We can disrupt their income stream.

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16 users have voted.

NYCVG

Daenerys's picture

@NYCVG @NYCVG General strike, rent strike, tax strike, buy nothing but essentials. All meaningless if no one participates though.

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10 users have voted.

This shit is bananas.

Pricknick's picture

love me some Noam.
He seems to have lost his touch, as in lost all touch with humanity.
His past is well worth the reading. His present is lackluster or bluster because of his fame.
Another to be lost to the wayside.
So sad.

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25 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick
has been destroyed by TDS, Trump derangement syndrome. Before this he clearly saw how both the Dems and Repubs were a blight on the world, but suddenly with the worst Dem candidate in modern times, he is supporting him? WTF? Biden is a war monger, anti-socialist, brain-addled, anti Democratic, fiscal austerian. I dare say that destruction of the American empire will proceed much faster under Biden. That by itself will be a good thing, but the cost in suffering during rapid decomposition will be immense. Just as a reminder, Bush II got us into wars in 11 different countries, Obama/Biden in 9 different countries and Trump in zero new countries. I just finished reading a really good opinion piece which pointed out the obvious, that Clinton's strategy of moving the Dem party to the Right has resulted in the Repub party moving further to the right, and then the Dem party chasing it. If the Dem party were at least somewhat to the Left, then the Repub party would have to respond to the Left. This has gotten so far out of hand that the Repubs see that the Dems have left their Left flank wide open. Trump has once again promised to protect Social Security and Medicare. Biden will refuse to make that promise, and in fact has tried numerous times to knee cap SS. He even tried to enter into a bargain with the more fiscally conservative Repubs to cut SS and then protect each other from being Primaried.

If Biden does manage to get elected, the morning after 20 January we will wake up to the biggest disaster in the history of the executive branch starting with Joe Biden and going through an administration filled with the most extreme neocons and neoliberals. What will Noam Chomsky's reaction be then?

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14 users have voted.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

snoopydawg's picture

@The Wizard

https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2020/08/31/the-left-case-against-supporti...

It talks about how democrats have pushed republicans right and followed them. Under Carter, Clinton and Obama all saw wealth inequality go up and Clinton and Obama passed more republican type policies then their predecessors did. Clinton especially was more of a republican than Bush 1.

I can't rec this enough.

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14 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

@snoopydawg

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2 users have voted.

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Bollox Ref's picture

What does that mean? Assassination?

I loathe Trump, but still.

I think Chomsky might be past his 'sell by' date.

As for the others, prepared to be violently assaulted by Biden? WTF?

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33 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref
military coup? CIA toup?
Count me out.

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12 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

WoodsDweller's picture

is that he still believes there's a future to be saved. I find it increasingly hard to communicate with people like that.
The ecosystem is collapsing, the climate is collapsing, American society is collapsing. Trump isn't a cause, he's a symptom.

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34 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

@WoodsDweller

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21 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Pricknick's picture

The ecosystem is collapsing, the climate is collapsing, American society is collapsing. Trump isn't a cause, he's a symptom.

Don't tell your children to be childless. Explain to them why they don't need to bring children into this.
The Full Catastrophe.
The Full Catastrophe is a comic phrase usually used to characterize any kind of disaster.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Full_Catastrophe

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11 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick
You may accept extinction. I won't.

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8 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

Pricknick's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness
It matters if you think it possible.
While I never believed in the magic eightball, I could see how all answers fit.
Humans are decidedly screwed and we'll take almost everything with us.
As I see it, yes.
Ask again later.
Better not tell you now.
Cannot predict now.
Concentrate and ask again.
Don't count on it.
It is certain.
It is decidedly so.

Peace to you and yours.

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13 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick

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1 user has voted.

We are so screwed.

Trump and his trophy wife and kids.
His religious nutcase sidekick.
His cabinet of incompetents and/or wackos.
Whoever it is running the Pentagon and armed forces.
McConnell, Schumer, Pelosi, etc. (A few Senators and Reps might be worth keeping, but only those who are not Russiagators, religious freaks, warmongers, and/or corporatists, iow keep the atheist/agnostic socialists.

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19 users have voted.
Centaurea's picture

@Marie

To your list, I'll add the oligarchy's enablers in the corporate media. The vast majority of them don't actually practice journalism. They are propagandists.

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23 users have voted.

"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi

"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone

@Centaurea
With apologies to honest sex workers who at least give value in return for money

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10 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

Situational Lefty's picture

We need to organize against Donald Trump and do everything we can to deny Trump and his sympathizers any legitimacy they receive from the MSM.

Thanks for sharing.

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1 user has voted.

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian

snoopydawg's picture

@Situational Lefty

Democrats are NOT doing everything in their power to remove Trump. But thanks for stopping by to leave another comment in one of my essays.

Think Trump is bad? I thought Bush would be the worst president of my lifetime, but if Biden’s elected the next Trump is going to be much worse.

https://benjaminstudebaker.com/2020/08/31/the-left-case-against-supporti...

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22 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

@snoopydawg
When Trump tries to cut SS, pensions, welfare at least Democrats fight him. When Biden does it, they will go along suddenly becoming fiscal conservatives aka "the adults in the room." Adulterers is more like it. Think Jeffries' list will ever be known?

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21 users have voted.

We are so screwed.

@snoopydawg

During the George W. Bush travesty years, every morning my spouse and I would look at the newspaper and ask "What did Bushie ruin today?". Ultimately it was our whole democracy and the future of our children. We are now tied forever to constant war and world domination scenarios that will ultimately bring this country to its knees.

But Bernie thinks Trump is an existential threat the democracy. And Michelle Obama thinks W is a "dear sweet man".

This is all lunacy .... total lunacy.

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23 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

snoopydawg's picture

@Fishtroller 02

"What did Bushie ruin today?".

Mine was "Would the democrats find their spines today and fight against him?"

Oh that hindsight vision huh? I thought dems were just weak and that was why they continued to roll over, but as the article points out both parties wanted to move the country right after the democrats got in bed with the Koch family, the banks and corporations and abandoned the working class. And how many times did we say that Obama 'caved early' in negotiations with republicans instead of holding the line firm? I did a lot I confess because I didn't see that the game was rigged. Obama ran to shut down the progressive movement by pretending that he was going to pass progressive legislation and stop our insidious wars. Well we know how that worked for us and if we dared criticize him for what he did we were called purists and racists because of course the 1st black president couldn't come across as an angry black man.

But Bernie thinks Trump is an existential threat the democracy

How can Bernie forget that Bush's signing of the patriot act destroyed democracy by rescinding our civil rights? Or that the 1st black president rescinded habeas corpus? What has Trump done that tops those heinous acts? I have asked Bernie that many times on Twit when he comes on to tell us what congress should be doing even though he has been passing legislation that does the opposite and he has been right there voting for it?

"Congress must pass $2,000 monthly checks until the epidemic has passed."

Well Bernie you had the chance to block all legislation that did not include those things, but you never even talked about it before you placed your vote for the largest transfer of wealth in history. Nor have you mentioned that in your numerous whining tweets.

Yesterday he asked what Trump's friend Putin was going to do to get Trump reelected. He has played along with the Russian farce since the beginning. Hey Bernie, this Cold War rhetoric is very dangerous right? So why are you playing along with it?

In case you need a brush up on how to block legislation you don't like here is Ted Cruz showing how it is done. Oh that's right. Only republicans can place holds or filibuster legislation they don't want. Silly me. Never mind. Continue gaslighting us.

This is all lunacy .... total lunacy.

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15 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

@snoopydawg

came in the mail. Don't know how we got on that list. It was an 8x10 glossy of the two of them. We taped it into the inside of a kitchen cabinet door and every once in awhile we would throw a rubber cabbage at it. Don't really know where the rubber cabbage came from, but it was perfect for the exercise!

Your analysis is spot on! Keep up the good work!

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14 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Lily O Lady's picture

@Fishtroller 02

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6 users have voted.

"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

snoopydawg's picture

@Lily O Lady

The Shoe for president.

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2 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

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2 users have voted.

"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Lookout's picture

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16 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout New Deal Democrat and therefore, isn't a socialist. Joe, OTOH, is even closer to all the anti-New Deal Republicans; more GW Bush than the 'liberal' Richard Nixon.

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19 users have voted.

Kinda distills it down to the essence of it. The dems try to use guilt by professing "Of Course we're progressives", how dare you disrespect us. FDR, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, go slow incrementalism! what more do you want you selfish socialists!

Your guy lost, you deserve nothing and we're not going to compromise any more. Except with republicans on 90% of legislation. Good ol' Bipatisan work-across-the aisle collaboration. If we win all three branches we'll hold ourselves hostage to the conservative dems and be unable to pass any lefty bills, no matter how many voters want it. So there!

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18 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Snode

Your guy lost

Bernie didn't lose fairly tho did he? Oh noes it took Obama to step in and get people who were beating Biden to drop out clearing the way for him while leaving the Snake in the race to derail votes from Bernie to her so she could be the spoiler she was meant to be.

If I had my heart set on becoming the First Woman President I would be appalled that the race had to be rigged in my favor to be that. Well I am a Libra and honesty and justice runs deep in my veins so I would not accept the results. But then I would never have been able to step on all the bodies it took for me to claw my way up the ranks in the 1st place. Leaving people in prison so they could do labor for pennies an hour. Leaving a man on death row because his lawyer didn't file the paperwork in time. Watch as a crooked banks take elderly people's homes on technicalities and outright fraud and persecuting poor families if they kids skip school because they live in their cars with their parents and who knows how many siblings which put even more economic pressure on those parents and all the other crappy things this woman did.

If Harris does become the First Woman President she should have an asterisk next to her name for all of history to remember she did not win fair and square.

President Harris ********************************************************************!

And Amen or Right on with this:

If we win all three branches we'll hold ourselves hostage to the conservative dems and be unable to pass any lefty bills, no matter how many voters want it. So there!

Joe Manchin can't be voted out because his type is the only democrat that can win in W. Virginia even though he votes with the GOP more than he does the dems. Besides he gives us the majority or some other nonsense as to why he can't be voted out and a real progressive voted in. But then there goes that hostage situation.

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13 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

snoopydawg's picture

@Snode

just in case Biden wins so that he will be restricted IF he wants to pass any legislation that helps the working class. Was she forced into doing this? Hell no. She did it on her own to make sure nothing helps us.

Feinstein is making it easier for republicans to block Biden's court picks just like they did with Obama. This is why McConnell has been able to appoint well over 200 right wing judges to the federal courts. Those vacancies were left open all through O's admin because the dems did not want them filled. And for those in the back who think that Biden will pack the courts starting with the Supreme Court, why in hell would he reverse what democrats have helped republicans do? Good gawd how those who believe in an inch's worth of difference between them is just so beyond me.

Jimmy covers the court issues in the video below.

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10 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

gulfgal98's picture

Democrats are all running around with their hair on fire claiming Trump is an existential threat and yet they continue to pass all of Trump's legislation, approve his judicial appointments, and give him more in the defense budget than he requested. Where is the resistance?

I have a hard time believing the Democrats when they sold out the people in the CARES Act by giving us each a one time paltry $1,200 check while the window at the Fed is open to the tune of about $6 Trillion and counting.

The Dems cannot have it both ways.

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17 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

snoopydawg's picture

@gulfgal98
For some reason centrists believe that Pelosi is actually resisting Trump. After all didn't they impeach him already? What else do you want her to do? Block funding until Trump released the kids in cages that are still being held in them years after a judge told him he had to? Or any of the other numerous things they can do proceduraly to block him?
Come now, gulfgal aren't you asking for too much?

Here is Pelosi's reply to what are you going to do to block Trump from appointing a SC justice? And trust me it is a doozy from the floozy.

Cued to her response:

Jimmy: "Every now and then you see that Pelosi is a robot and her software has malfunctioned like that robot in Westworld."

Pelosi: "Let's hope the president sees the light."

George Steppon: "But to be clear you are not taking any arrows out of your quiver? You are not ruling anything out?"

Pelosi: "Good morning. Sunday morning. We take an oath to protect and defend the constitution......... blah blah and yada yada empty words"

Good grief. It is like Lucy and Charlie Brown with the football again. Just once I would love to see Charlie Brown kick Lucy instead of trying to kick the football.

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13 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

@gulfgal98 "We cant have it both ways? Fine. Just keep sending the $$$$$$$$."

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7 users have voted.

NYCVG

My assestment.

If Trump is elected, then the moneyed elites will run the government.
If Biden is elected, then the moneyed elites will run the government.

If Trump is elected, then we will get Biden's policies.
If Biden is elected, then we will get Trump's policies.

Working on my write in vote.

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13 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@MrWebster

Why do people think it is a good thing that Wall Street is backing Biden? I have no idea, but there's a write up on it over yonder. Hello. You got the Bush neocons backing Biden and now Wall Street has come out in favor of him and y'all think that's a good thing? WTH happened to you?

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9 users have voted.

“An addicted underclass is easier to control than one that is fully functional and aware of its oppression.” - The Elite
Centrism is the failed political philosophy of those “despised elites.” Centrism gave us Trump.

WoodsDweller's picture

and for some reason I was voting in it, I would pick Biden over Trump as the less odious choice. Biden has spent his whole career in the wrong party.
But I'm not going to vote for a Republican, regardless of which ticket he's running on. Too bad there isn't a Democrat running this cycle. Again.

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7 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

Situational Lefty's picture

I was responding to the most thoughtful part I saw, which was Noam Chomsky's comments.

He's a very thoughtful and learned man, and I realize I'm out-voted 20 to 1 here, but I side with Professor Noam Chomsky on pretty much everything. If you guys think you're smarter than he is, I'd love to hear your ideas, but I doubt their veracity.

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0 users have voted.

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Situational Lefty

and in my opinion "any means necessary" was a MAJOR gaffe.

"Vote him out" - sure, if you can manage it with Dead Donkey Joe the only other realistic option.

"Impeach him" - sure, if you can get the spineless Congressworms and Ms. Melted Ice Cream Pelousy to go for it.

Anything else - you're starting to talk violent anarchy, Mr. Chomsky, and I really do not think that's what you want.

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7 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Situational Lefty's picture

@TheOtherMaven comments weren't included in the essay so I will provide them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rASOvdaoKKw&feature=youtu.be

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1 user has voted.

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian

Chomsky like many public intellectuals has interesting things to say from the perspective of an academic and intellectual. Also sometimes people like him say stupid shit. Like any means necessary, or support for Pol Pot and the Khmer Rouge. Chomsky's work in linguistics changed how we look at language, and his work in many areas that he was not a specialist in such as his anti war activities and work against neoliberalism is greatly appreciated, at least by me that is. It's probably the wrong thing for a public figure to advocate removing Trump from office "by any means necessary" when we still have a mostly free elections and first amendment rights.

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3 users have voted.
Situational Lefty's picture

@ban nock I'd like to get rid of Donald Trump, up to and including a public beheading?

Getting rid of this asshole could also include slow bleeding, water torture, and any other method of torture.

I seriously hate this fucker. Every option is on the table.

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1 user has voted.

"The enemy is anybody who is going to get you killed, no matter which side he's on." Yossarian