So I’ll be the first to say it and speak up in his defense

Not to second guess, but I miss Alligator Ed and thought he was an exceptional writer and regular contributor who added a great degree of originality and a wonderful sense of humor that especially now, as ever, is so needed here

I might too get banned for saying this, but at a time when so many of us are under so much stress, would it really hurt to extend a little bit of understanding to someone whose basically been a really good gator and who also might be feeling the added effects of stress as well and to give him as longtime contributor and member to this site a little bit of slack and some love?

I don’t know.

But what I do know is that it can really hurt someone right or wrong, to get cut off from the people they thought were their family.
So maybe take a moment pls to think about that.

Not my call nor up to me
all I can say is, but by the grace of the swamp,
there go I.

Sirena

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Comments

Pricknick's picture

Though you may outlive your welcome.
I too enjoyed AE for the rudeness and very dark humor. Yet the sarcasm of being challenged about beliefs were many times overdone.
There is one simple rule: Dont be a dick.
All in all, it wouln't bother me one iota if a multi million year old swamp creature reared its ugly head again.

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10 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

snoopydawg's picture

I don’t understand why he was. He had every right to defend himself in public. Yes his way of writing was unusual, but I had the option to not read his essays.

Thanks, Sirena and it’s good to see you here again. Please don’t be a stranger.

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14 users have voted.

"It seems to me that the problem is that group party interests, in this case, are placed above the interests of the entire society and the interests of people,"

@snoopydawg

Right back at cha SD,

Didn't know that the criteria here was we always had to agree w someone’s POV
but I always followed and got a good chuckle out of AE’s posts.

One of the main reasons I came here, honestly.

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8 users have voted.

@snoopydawg
I'm not a big fan of drama

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8 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@gjohnsit

You missed what you’re not a fan of....and?

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6 users have voted.

"It seems to me that the problem is that group party interests, in this case, are placed above the interests of the entire society and the interests of people,"

I came here to flee censorship at another site. I'll find somewhere else to make home. If the big tech sites weren't censoring anything that contradicts the pro-big pharma/Fauci narrative (There is an abundance of proof that much of what is being told to the public is lies, and it is being taken down as fast as it is posted. Why?) we should hide in our houses, be afraid of each other, and generally be as inconvenienced and miserable for as long as it takes for us to beg to buy an injection for every person on the planet, then AE articles would not seem so controversial. I see little difference between ignoring the hinky aspects of the official COVID narrative and ignoring the hinky aspects of the official Russiagate narrative.

See you all.

@snoopydawg

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7 users have voted.

I don't want Trump to win, but I do want the establishment Dems to lose due to their cheating and undemocratic practices in the primary. And I will do whatever I can to help that happen.

@entrepreneur

except for the leaving part (so far). I've appreciated your contributions here FWIW.

The rampant, in your face censorship on social media, Google, Youtube and the like
of any dissent from the official "be very, very afraid and only listen to people who we say are
the experts" meme should scare the crap out of anybody that actually values free speech.

The elite do not have your interests at heart but they have every interest in keeping people afraid and believing themselves dependent on them. Distressing to see how many people are buying in to that, even here.

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0 users have voted.
CB's picture

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7 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

there was controversy that drove AE away. All blogs have that potential - to silence someone. Certain people here think they are the boss of everyone when they disagree with a POV and work to silence those voices. This place silences me, sometimes.

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7 users have voted.

"When will our conscience's grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?" Eleanor Roosevelt

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

mimi's picture

I wonder til today what of his writing style had pushed the button of our respected overlord who has to keep silent to keep the peace here.

I don't remember that Alligator Ed's so-called rudeness was targetted at any individual reader or writer here on the site. If it was, I would like to have the link to that. I found his language often original, even funny, and took much of it as entertaining. But then everyone has other reasons to like or dislike someone's style.

I like to know if I overlooked something or not.

JtC has the task to not comment and to be silent. In this case I find that silence is not helping us, but leaves us with more questions than answers, we have no chance to get clear about.

I remember what made me think about Alligator Ed a bit more than other writers.

He provoked for example with the expression 'Obersturmbannführer (Bill) Gates' (well, a bit too weirdo for my taste, but then I belong the to tribe of former Obersturnbannführers, so I like precision in describing the profession of my tribal forefathers, of which I have no knowledge that Bill Gates belonged to or not).

He once hinted and provoked race by saying about a person with the last name of 'Black' that "at least she/he is black". That was too twisted to slip through unnoticed by me.

He reacted very seriously and furiously in defense of his professional integrity as a medical doctor, when it was questioned. He defended himself so strongly that I felt there is distinct reason for it. I admit I disliked the back and forth between him and CB in the beginning. But then I said to myself, let the boys figure it out between themselves. And voila, CB said above he misses his professional 'Geplänkel' (= banter in English?) with the gator now as well.

Thoughts about the alligator's reasons for his furiousness in his reactions I kept to myself, because there is no way to find out and ask him about it. But he said something that might have given a hint as an answer. I let you find it, because everything might be not what it seems on these god-damn intertubes. I have swamp-o-phobia, for a reason, see bottom of my comment.

JtC said, he was disgusten by me as being too supportive of alligator ed. Ok, that was a punch directed personally at me, but just made me think more about why JtC felt that way. I think in this case JtC forgot his own regulation for this site to not attack someone personally. Bue heh, it happens to the best of us. I baked some cookies to calm him down. Wink

In any case, Alligator Ed was a voice I would have wanted to have the chance to hear for as long as the gator wanted to talk. We all have our buttons that someone can push and drive us nuts. So what to do about this dilemma? May be this:?

If we jump in the icy waters of the muddy swamp, I started thinking it would be advisable to wear a slick rubber drivers suit. Covers up all our buttons, keeps us warm and lets nothing push you over the top, it perls off like like rain drops or the famous dust Obama thought was not worth to keep on his jacket's shoulders. (I name Obama 'arrogantor' now)

Let Alligator Ed speak his mind. I doubt he still has appetite to do so. But once in a while he will get too hungry, catches a prey and bites. Alligators have to eat too. Have some mercy.

To gjohnsit: there was no drama, imo. but there is a mystery to be solved. Who could resist that?

To Sirena: Thanks for speaking up.

To JtC: I am still trying to be a 'Good German' and play by the rules. Sometimes I forget it for a second. You know, it feels so good to be a 'Bad German' sometimes. Nothing for Ungood.

Peace folks, and hi to Alligator Ed. I lived nearby a swamp as a kid. There was one thick, stony, sand path built up to cross the swamp without sinking into it. People who have sunk into the swamp, never could get out. We always were warned to be careful to not fall into the swamp. For a reason:

I don't want to end up like this famous "Moorleiche" (= bog body in English?) which was found in hat swamp by a neighbor Alfred Rust on our street. I am not sure if that is a picture of that specific bog body or not, but if not, it is a good example of one.

Rendswühren Man.jpg
Von Bullenwächter - Eigenes Werk, CC BY-SA 3.0, Link

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10 users have voted.
CB's picture

@mimi
A lot of time he likes to be provocative because that is his nature. He was not as cold and fierce as he tried to appear at times.

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10 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@CB
as well as the political bantering among politicians from various German Parties, who have to digest the virologists banters, happens here in Germany all the time.

One gets used to it. It's just hard to read it all. I fall asleep over reading what I master to read and it's still not all and I still don't get it all and I still would not talk about all the thoughts that go through my mind reading what I have read.

I am still glad that C99p and all its writers can't be burned like books in Nazi Germany.

I am not clear about burning individual authors voices though ... I am still working on making up my mind about it.

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5 users have voted.

@mimi It is absolutely ALLOWED here to disagree.
It is absolutely NOT ALLOWED here to toss insults to site members.
I know English is not your first language, but you understand it enough to see an insult when you read it.
You have been an Alligator Ed champion for quite a while, so I hope you can keep in constant contact with him.
You should. He constantly lit you up. You two seemed to have a real cyber connection.
But he didn't have one with me. And more importantly, not the site administrator. I am not living in fear den. I am free to go anywhere, including naked in my yard!
I hear sayings, "Don't start any shit, and their won't be any shit." Step 1.
But then, there is also, "You fuck with me, I will fuck you up." Step 2. I personally skip 1 in real life.
That is the Step 1, then Step 2 the mighty JtC saw today.
What is step 3?
Win the war. Solve the problem, achieve peace.
It is professional not personal, until someone makes it so.

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2 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@on the cusp

It is absolutely ALLOWED here to disagree.

I know that, thanks.

It is absolutely NOT ALLOWED here to toss insults to site members.

I know that too, therefore I wondered where the tons of insults were and asked to link them and repost them for me in a response comment. Because I didn't see them.

I know English is not your first language, but you understand it enough to see an insult when you read it.

Apparently this is not the case, because some people get incensed about some provocations and others do not. Even administrative advisors can have different opinions As I explained elsewhere already, I seem to have not the same or other sensitivities you have or JtC has.

You have been an Alligator Ed champion for quite a while, so I hope you can keep in constant contact with him

Jeez, I have no idea what you read into my comments to AE as me having him as champion. I do not need any constant contact with AE, nor would I have ever asked for it and have never have thought about it. I am sorry, your imaginations are out of the line, in this case. What gave you that idea?

You should. He constantly lit you up. You two seemed to have a real cyber connection.

Huh ? Cyber connection? He lit me up? What is that supposed to mean? I am on fire? His provocative style didn't bother me much and the ones that did, I quoted in another comment. I am not on fire, nor is any person online something like a cyber connection to me.(I guess others call those so-called cyberconnection 'online friends' to personal or individual users). I have none, think they don't exist, consider that concept of friendships baloney. Really, OtC, would you please calm down?

But he didn't have one with me. And more importantly, not the site administrator.

Looks like it.

I am not living in fear den. I am free to go anywhere, including naked in my yard!

Me neither, but if someone says something like that, I wouldn't feel insulted or attacked personally. (How often has someone either up-front or subversively indicated to me that he can't stand me because I am German, Nazi or a Commie. Just to let you know I am neither of the above or all of it. Do you really think it would bother me? As I said people have different life experiences, different sensitivites and different styles of sarcasm, humor etc. I can accept that. If I see or hear or read it. In your case I apparently didn't hear it or I misunderstood, or I skipped the comments accidentically and no hidden purpose. Pfft ...)

I hear sayings, "Don't start any shit, and their won't be any shit."

Good idea.

But then, there is also, "You fuck with me, I will fuck you up."

Do what you want. Your choice.

I personally skip 1 in real life

Looks like it.

The mighty JtC saw today.

Indeed mighy JtC doing mighty things, I saw that.

Win the war. Solve the problem, achieve peace. It is professional not personal, until someone makes it so.

Who made war? Who won war? Who achieved peace? Who made this whole damn thread personal? Me?

This seems to be a fucking fuck palooza. And I have no interest in participating in it. Sorry, I explained and apologized several times already. And I hate to repeat myself.

Conclusion:
AE insulted you, he insulted JtC and he insulted this site.
I didn't see or knew that.
I asked (politely) that I like to see the links for those insults. They were not reposted.
So be it. End of story.

PSI almost wished there would be a 'closed comment section' now. I couldn't have imagined me wishing that either one day here on C99p. I think that was one of the most troubling commenting experiences I had so far here on C99p. But who cares anyway.

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8 users have voted.

@mimi

PSI almost wished there would be a 'closed comment section' now. I couldn't have imagined me wishing that either one day here on C99p. I think that was one of the most troubling commenting experiences I had so far here on C99p. But who cares anyway.

I care. And, no, I don't think you were responded to nicely at all. Take care, OK?

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4 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@Blue Republic
thanks. Let's care all of us for everyone here. Peace.

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3 users have voted.

I've no idea why it happened. As a casual reader I will say that my opinion of AE was that he often wrote things that were blatantly false.

what I do know is that it can really hurt someone right or wrong, to get cut off from the people they thought were their family.
So maybe take a moment pls to think about that.

I will add my opinion on this. If you think the virtual connections made through an online group such as this one are on the same level as family you have a lot to learn. From what I have seen of him via his posts, I strongly doubt AE would be disturbed by getting banned from this or any other web site.

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9 users have voted.

twixt AE and otc
didn't seem toxic
to me but quien sabe?

@jbob
family is what you make it

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8 users have voted.

will someone please direct me?

thx.

sorry it came to that.

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6 users have voted.

Not a clue that he had been banned.

Pretty fkn dismaying - to the extent that there were personal attacks,
I would say it was AE who was on the receiving end - from what I have seen.
I did *not* see (where is it?) the exchange that apparently triggered this.

Maybe I misunderstood this 99% thing. If we're rating wit, wisdom, musical taste and generally having one's mierda together I guess AE could definitely be in the 1% range.

Sorry to hear that's grounds for disqualification around here.

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13 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

And I want to be very clear about my personal stance on banning. As a participant here and at other sites, I am very much opposed to the banning of anyone from this or any site except for two reasons only: Threatening another member with bodily harm and/or doxing another member. I believe that everything else can and should be worked out privately.

When AE was banned, I was not aware of it because of my having not been on line much at that point in time. It was pointed out to me by another member and I went to the thread in question. To me, it was an exchange between two members who disagreed, but it did not cross a line requiring banning.

I have not always agreed with what Ed has written here and have even had some private conversations with him over what he has written. In those private conversations, Ed was always respectful of my views. If Ed were allowed to return, I was welcome him back.

One final thought. I have a personal rule of thumb for disagreements on line. I post one time to rebut on topic, never personally, and then I let it go. It is not worth additional trouble and usually the controversy will die on its own.

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18 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98

thx.

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4 users have voted.
gulfgal98's picture

@irishking https://caucus99percent.com/content/hard-lesson-swallow-so-breathe-deep-...

I did not agree at all with Ed on this, but posted one comment about his source and left for most of the rest of the weekend.

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8 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~ Dr. Cornel West

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

@gulfgal98

I too had noticed his writing was different at the end.

but I am sorry to see him go.

rip

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7 users have voted.

You are not authorized to access this page.

I see.

That's what you get when you try to go to Alligator Ed's account. So his content is still our there but not findable in the way you could that of a current member. No means to message him.

Well, it's not my site, but as C99 does try and distinguish itself from Daily Kos (there, I said it) I just want to point out that that is somewhat harsher than what they do in banning someone. Even if, like myself, you are permanently banned from posting there your essays stay up and your account is visible *and* you can communicate with other members on the site.

I, for one, would like to be able to communicate with AE and see his contributions accessible. It just seems respectful.

To illustrate the point, my one and only DK essay - still up over there years later: Bobbie Kennedy Birthday Blues

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10 users have voted.

@Blue Republic

posted on the left sidebar
believe his contact is there

Qmess

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4 users have voted.

@QMS

no longer there

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4 users have voted.

@Blue Republic @Blue Republic @Blue Republic can still be accessed.
I moved the important ones to wordpress.
I don't want to attract clicks to that site.

I support JtC locking down essays even if it means I lost the ones I had the time he once banned me.

Believe it or not I can get chippy sometimes Smile

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4 users have voted.

@Battle of Blair Mountain
aren't gone, you're just blocked from reading them.

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3 users have voted.

@JtC

Your essays...aren't gone, you're just blocked from reading them.

But what is the *point*? It's not just the departed user that can't access them in a systematic way, nobody else (yourself excepted) can either, correct?

Obviously I/we lack your perspective on what's going on but from this side of the fence it comes across as vindictive not to allow a banned user to access content they have created. And to block as yet unbanned users from seeing something like the totality of other users' material doesn't seem very constructive either.

If nothing else, the ability to view a banned user's postings (unless they request otherwise) would provide some clarity about what it is that can get you banned around here and one could then make an informed decision whether to try to conform to the local standards or to start looking for freer pastures...

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3 users have voted.

@JtC which Ed was it I got chippy with that got me banned. As I recall, perhaps incorrectly, I was angry at one of the Eds for trying to get DemExit people to vote for Trump in 2016. It may have been something else I typed out too hastily in the heat of the moment though.

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1 user has voted.

The difference between an administrator and a regular member. You all don't keep track of the insults, the factual inaccuracies, the whack-a-doodle sources, the fake news, etc. I do.

You look at one essay, one in which he insulted both individuals and c99 itself by the way, and you make your judgement call. I look at it all in totality.

Our one basic rule is don't be a dick, and Ed crossed that line time after time. I have been very lenient with him for many years, probably too lenient, I let things slide that would have gotten most users banned long ago. Even when he insults me personally.

I have my limits. The decision stands.

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24 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@JtC
That means I apparently was. And I thought I pay attention in reading comments.

I let it go. Like gulfgal suggested. I have no feeling of the way the language used here is insulting to you native English readers and writers. To me it is either Chinese or Russian. I don't understand both.

Sorry, JtC. I guess I have my language limitations as a non-native English speaker or reader.

Life goes on.

Peace.

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7 users have voted.

@JtC
And that it still stands.

But as AE has been a long time member and contributor here and surely has made several friends over the years, is it ok for C99 members to at least pm me for his contact info or to provide theirs if they want to still stay in touch?

Seems like that be a magnanimous thing on your part to allow.

S

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5 users have voted.

@Sirena
i have no problem at all with that.

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3 users have voted.

@JtC

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3 users have voted.

@JtC

I just tried PM'ing her, as you suggested would be OK - to send contact info to AE but:

ACCESS DENIED

What gives?

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2 users have voted.
Granma's picture

Surprised me. I've been here a long time. And I've been impressed with the way Jtc does things. I've seen threads get really hot and Jtc would step in and tell people to cool it. From what I've observed, he has always been more than fair with commenters and posters. That's all. That's my two cents.

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16 users have voted.
Shahryar's picture

Here's mine:

I've seen AE derail many a discussion and be generally obnoxious. I'd taken to skipping his comments. When you skip someone's comments you end up not getting into a spat since you're not replying.

I notice, however, that I go through life like that, taking the good from all those I can and letting the bad go (as I might define "bad"). But my darling wife can't do that. And I know others can't, as well. So it's natural for some of us to want to respond and then there you go, into angry, argumentative land. Which is, I believe, what has happened here with AE.

I wouldn't have mentioned my thoughts about his posts if this situation hadn't arisen. I fully understand JtC's action. I would think that he tried to deal with this behind the scenes until the last straw.

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18 users have voted.
RantingRooster's picture

I see both sides. While I believe in free speech, even when I disagree 100%, but sometimes people are just being dicks because they can and like stirring the pot, to really no one's advantage, and for no other reason than just because they can.

That's the definition of being a dick, at least one of them anyway, no?

It seems like crossing a line from free speech into bullying, because you don't agree. So, on one hand I'm a big believer in free speech, but on the other, it truly crosses a line into bullying, which no one should have "right" to do to another.

I see @JtC's perspective of things too. I think Jtc has the "right" to run his site how he chooses. Personally, I think the "limits" of acceptable community behavior here, is a hell of a lot wider, deeper, and more "progressive", and free speech oriented, than most other sites.

Also I think about, have you ever experience having to let go of one of your friends because their behavior was just so toxic all the time, you just couldn't stand it anymore. And just kind of had to stop hanging out with them or found excuses not to go along with them when invited?

I firmly believe "freedom" comes with tremendous responsibility, not to mention our freedom's have huge consequences on others in how we "exercise" those "freedoms".

The rest of the world is bullying us enough already, we really don't need to do that to one another. I think passionate debate is fine, as long as we don't cross that hard to define line between freedom of speech and bullying.

I also consider, moderating (hosting, managing, maintaining) a site is a bitch, and I don't think many understand that, the level of personal involvement required, so hat's off to JtC for doing such a good job!

Drinks

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21 users have voted.

"Men who look upon themselves born to reign, and others to obey, soon grow insolent; selected from the rest of mankind their minds are early poisoned by importance;" - Thomas Paine, Common Sense

So without further adieu, I shall close out mine for him with this one.

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3 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

should've read it and caught it. However, I don't read Ed's stuff any more, not for a while, and after a quick glance at the body of the column decided it was essentially tame and moved on to something else.

Now, looking at the whole thread, I see that his first comment is really pretty offensive and insulting to most people and no doubt many who read and participate here.

Trying to prod the Troglodytes from their fear caves is proving very difficult, even here in our learned swamp. If one has no comorbidities, other than being a political junkie, then one is quite safe going outside.

Maybe if enough people started understanding this, the system would be overwhelmed by those emerging from their Caves of Fear.

That is totally obnoxious as well as being pointless afactual horseshit. If you wish to express a baseless opinion, you needn't do it in a manner designed to offend as many as possible. Trogdolytes living in fear caves, including the patrons of this site. followed by nonsense about how If people started understanding some piece of crap fiction then ...

So, 3 users call him out on it, no personal attacks, simple factual statements and how does he respond. Calling them out by name, he attacks with an insulting falsehood and misrepresentation:

Anecdotal evidence is the enemy of health policy

which he follows with a long fact free rant composed of a long series of strawmen. He then ends with another personal attack in the form of a malicious and totally false misrepresentation:

But if you let your life be ruled by anecdotes, then you will be paralyzed into inaction.

Absolutely none of that was necessary to express his misguided afactual opinion on things and it violates the principles of this site - be civil, no personal attacks, no trolling the membership or the site.

At best it warrants a warning and a talking to, but I'd wager, given his history here, that he has had many of those; he is a hard-core serial offender, sufficient for Johnny to jump in with both feet. The fact is that JtC is seriously reluctant to take such actions. More than once, when somebody has been routinely pushing the limits, he has called the mods together to discuss how to handle it, what steps are appropriate and what action and/or reaction is warranted and usually the result has been yet another warning.

Now, I've been harsh with his thesis, and I'll explain

Saying that only those with co-morbidities or metabolic weaknesses need worry is simply not true. There are ample examples to the contrary, based on medical examinations and histories and other sound evidence. Worse yet, it smells faintly of victim blaming. It seems that those with such failings are more prone to infection and to severe results, but that is it, MORE PRONE. The others aren't exempt or immune.

Second, unless old age, in and of itself, is defined as such a condition, then the seemingly heightened susceptibility of the elderly indicates that the definition needs refinement.

Lastly, it is useless information, if it even actually is information. There are those with assorted chronic conditions who can know that they are immuno-compromised or otherwise at heightened risk, but, excluding them, the average person really cannot judge their metabolic health or freedom from co-morbidity because we have no healthcare system. You can walk around this country in fairly good health performing strenuous labor with all kinds of almost debilitating conditions and be none the wiser.

When I turned 53 I had an enormously comprehensive "multiphasic" physical that ran the course of 3 days. (My ex employer saw to it that I had a so-called "Cadillac health care plan", which means to say a decent one, and one which is proactive and into preventative medicine). Nonetheless, when I turned 70, I needed an umbilical hernia repaired and the anesthesiologist, as was the routine, demanded some cardiac testing to make sure I was ok to go under. I have a heart irregularity, almost certainly have had for my whole life and during my super-thorough physical. This got my GP worried, since I've had very flexible blood pressure running a bit on the high side since at least high school, so he had other tests run. I have an enlarged aorta and another major piece of my vascular system that I can't recall. This is probably due to an extremely athletic and strenuous youth and bouts of extreme physical activity later on as well. Yet, this crap was undetected, even with a great medical plan, until I hit my seventies. The average person with the average medical plan wouldn't know about this shit. It is pointless and useless to recommend a course of action for only those in good metabolic health it something like 75% of the population has absolutely no way of knowing whether they do or not. That being the case, trolling folks with bullshit about "trogdolytes" and "fear caves" is simply absolutely unacceptable.

be well and take care

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15 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris
well said. I hate being the person that I have to be sometimes. Someone has to do it though. It comes with the territory.

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11 users have voted.

@enhydra lutris
If AE never said what he said, you probably wouldn’t have said what you said either.

That’s why I enjoy and support open conversation even w those I don’t always necessarily
agree with.

I’m here to learn and the only way I can do that is by listening to an open not closed debate between many varying POVs, whether I agree w one side or the other, I do know and recognize that I come predisposed by my biases but still I try to see past that in an effort broaden my awareness and knowledge of where I may not always be right.

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6 users have voted.

@Sirena
is allowed and encouraged here. What is not allowed is insulting other members. One time can get you bounced out of here. In Ed's case it was many, many insults.

Now, are you going to continue stirring this pot?

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7 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@JtC
the good juicy pieces of meat don't get burned and stuck at the bottom of the pot/barrel.

I don't envy your role, which you admitted you sometimes don't like either. That means I HAVE RESPECT for your work, even if I have questions I don't get answers to. But I assume you do know the answers right? So, I am a little sad, that nobody seems to be willing to clarify them for me.

You said upstairs (or downstairs, whatever) to Battle of the Blair that he/she can't read her own diaries on dailykos, because she is banned there.

Please don't get mad or disgusted, but I really want to understand how this works.

So I am banned from Daily Kos, I can't log in, but I can search my comments and diaries and read them still. (Not that I do or have an interest in poking my blah, blah from times bygone). I can do that because I can still enter my 'mimi'-name into their search field and go into the 'users' column and can then read my diaries. (Unfortunately I clicked on my last one over there and read through all the comments. The feeling people expressed there in their comments are representative of what feelings might be among those members, who spoke up against your banning of Alligator ED.

But now I happened to look at the user on dailykos called 'Tool'. I happened to have met 'Tool' personally in Washington DC and we walked with another lady writing at dailykos from NY (have forgotten her Daily Kos name) around the Mall and Vietnam Memorial wall there, had a nice meal together etc. I remember him as a kind, unassuming guy with whom it was a pleasure to spend time with. I have some photos of that as well). So, I got a shock while trying to see if I can see my own diaries, being banned on dailykos, seing him banned and that not long ago. It made me mad. I tried to read two of his last diaries there.

Read for example one of his last diaries here. I wouldn't say he has a provoking writing style and is quite detailed in what he writes. Then I saw him banned and tried to figure out when that was. His last comments (which you can't read) anymore, were in this diary. In this diary 'Tool' made his last comment. If you want to read his comment, you can't, it is hidden. Was it hidden by himself or the Daily Kos administration? And btw. it's those diaries who punch race issues ad nauseam that made me leave Daily Kos.

"Tool is toll, nicht wahr?" (I can do word plays only in Germen - English: Tool is great, isn't he/she /s )?

So, as I am thankfully not (yet) be banned here, I would like to know, if I were banned like Alligater Ed is, could I still read (here on C99p) my own diaries and my comments or not?
What would happen if you closed your shop? Everything gone?

Because I like to have things archived for ever. I consider my blah, blah that important to me... /s Blum 3 )

I only worked with physical tapes in an archive of a German publicly funded TV channel in DC. Later it changed to be archived digitally, shortly before I retired. It was not much better either, because you still had to access physically in headquarter's archives in Germany, someone over there had to feed them into the network, and we had to download the file in the US. The whole process was way too slow for daily TV news production purposes. So, that's why I am curious.

Then I remember (having a tour at the National Archives at College Park, MD) the tour guy, who explained stuff to us, said that 'digital archives' are way more vulnerable and more easily destroyed and/or unaccessible than paper or tape archives.

Now tell me, how would I archive the videos I find in links of essays and comments here on C99p? Would I have to manually click on the link and download and save its content on my computer and then build my own archival system to retrieve it, when it grows to be difficult to manage otherwise? And all that just because one can not count to find the digital archival files anymore on other archives?

I realize that some folks here have apparently video clips available within minutes that are old, which you can't find on youtube. So, how did they manage to have it available?

Well, if you don't like to answer or read the whole shebang here, I understand and don't blame you. I wouldn't be an archivist or blog administrator in my next life either. I build a cooperation with me son. He gardens and grows the food, I take them and cook them. My sister gets a free lunch. Voila. It works. Smile

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2 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

@Sirena @Sirena

If one has no comorbidities, other than being a political junkie, then one is quite safe going outside.

could be stated as simply as that without calling people trogdolytes and asserting that those who don't see it that way are living in fear caves. When challenged, he needn't have been insulting and obnoxious about it, especially since he was clearly making up his numbers.

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10 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

@enhydra lutris

than "Troglodyte" around here and once or twice it was partially justified - I didn't go whining to management about it. Y'all seem a bit thin-skinned.

By the way, it was beautiful outside today. I weeded around the corn and harvested a couple artichokes - no lockdown and no COVID cases, either, here in beautiful Shizuoka Prefecture.

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2 users have voted.
enhydra lutris's picture

@Blue Republic

This site has, from the beginning, had two simple rules: 1)Damn near anything goes and 2) No shit flinging. Those constraints don't really seem all that oppressive or difficult to comprehend and abide by.

The idea was to provide a forum for free and open discussion of any and all topics open to anybody and everybody regardless of viewpoint. It was to be a safe haven from ideology and other oppressive constraints. Some people have felt driven from the site because they can't handle such an atmosphere, being ideologically or otherwise "thin skinned". That's life. Nonetheless, the idea is to provide a safe haven for all, and some have felt driven from the site due to undue directed shit flinging, which is not really acceptable and which we try to to prevent by nipping shit flinging in the bud when we spot it, by simple explanation and persuasion. You (whomever) should tone that down, one shouldn't be saying stuff like (whatever), insulting others, using personal innuendo, etc.

Every now and then there are those who simply cannot abide by that simple rule, but who are compelled by something I personally don't fathom to continually throw shit at people, and Ed was pretty much one. In his post, he somewhat exultantly stated that Politics is a blood sport , which may or may not be true of big P politics in the outside world, though it arguably needn't and shouldn't be. Be that as it may, here it is inappropriate. Part of the foundational concept of this site is that it not be a blood sport, but a haven of respite from such, and if one's goal, dream, and idea of the ideal reality is that all things (everything is politics, you know) should be a blood sport, there are ample venues in which to practice those arts. If one cannot distinguish between those and this, and make appropriate behavioral corrections then we owe it to the majority to ensure that this site doesn't become some sort of abbatoir full of verbal death matches.
Somewhere there needs to be some modicum of balance and restraint, and the bulk or our members and readers have no problem with that, and they are the ones we really really have an obligation to.

be well and have a good one.

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7 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Dawn's Meta's picture

to step in. Thank you Sirena for opening the discussion.

EL thank you for explaining how the admins talk this sort of thing over. Knowing the internal process helped me to understand the backstory and how things are handled. It is good that JtC talks with trusted advisors.

Thank you JtC for your hard work and steady hand. And thank you for participating in this thread.

Even obnoxious posters can be missed. AE was at the end advising, no, insisting that people should go out freely. I agree with the civil liberty part of the thought (or lockdown fever), but without readily available and quick to get results testing available to all, we have a problem in our society and worldwide. Instead of quarantine of the known infected we have to social distance and isolate. It has cost all of us socially, psychologically, economically and politically.

That leaves us where we are at the moment.

Thanks again everybody.

PS: SwedishJewfish was here and I am glad gone after a short foray through our site. Toxique.

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5 users have voted.

A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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