You're Not Contagious Right?
If you're not contagious, why stay in doors? Why not go do what ever the hell ya want, you have the right to be a fucking ignorant moron no? I mean, why the fuck care about anyone else but your own selfish ass, right? If you feel good, go ahead and go out, walk around and mingle with people. Knock yourself out.
Maybe, if people had two fucking brain cells, they might ask themselves, how do I know if I'm contagious or not?
Are you going to spend the money to find out? Do you even care if you're contagious or not, and could possibly kill several people, because you wanted to dine out for a change, and you've been stuck indoors for too long and just wanted to get out and about?
Does your right to go out and do what ever you want conflict with other's rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness? Especially when you can't know whether you are contagious or not!
Would it even bother you if you infected someone and they died as a result of you “exercising your rights”, because you are contagious, and have no way to know it?
Is your "right", to be served a cheeseburger while armed to the teeth with an AK-47, by a low wage worker with no healthcare, more important than their life or their children's?
Gee, all I needed was a new battery for my truck but I got stuck with a 47 thousand dollar medical bill after staying in the hospital for 8 days, 3 in ICU and a liter of fluid drained from my lungs, simply because some ASSHOLE retail clerk decided they needed to feed their family and go to work sick, while they were still contagious!
(The "system", that forced that clerk to work while sick is truly to blame, not the clerk!)
Think for a moment, one does not have to have symptoms to become a carrier and be contagious, not to mention a possible death sentence for someone and their family.
What's more important, eliminating your boredom or protecting someone else's life?
Everyone of us is a possible death sentence to someone else, and we don't even know it. How can we? How many are potential walking/talking Typhoid Marys, and don't even know it?
Comments
But, but, but...
beaches!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Anyone who can’t Google “Mai Tai recipe”
Needs professional help, not our pity. (h/t Ian Schoales)
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
The really important thing is physical distancing.
Back in March I made people angry by daring to suggest that Florida hotels should be shut down to vacation travelers. There was no excuse for allowing spoiled brats to pack the beaches during Spring Break. Out-of-state and foreign tourism are important to economy of Florida. They are also inexcusibly dangerous during a pandemic.
On the other hand Florida has long stretches of beach that are not crowded even in normal times. Recently the MSM took photographs down long stretches of beach with lenses that made them look crowded. The groups of people were really about 10-20 feet apart. As long as local people stay with their quarantine groups this does not pose a threat of spreading the virus. UV light from the sun will quickly destroy any virus the heat and salt spray do not get.
It is likely that quite a few parents are trading babysitting. Quite a few kids who live in apartment buildings are probably visiting with neighboring children. Parents need to be educated about the risks and ways to protect themselves and their children. This is an uphill battle given the messages coming from some politicians, parts of the mainstream media and a lot of idiots posting BS on u-tube. Finding ways to decrease the stress of the current situation will help put people in the mood to listen.
Blocking off parts of large parking lots near public beaches and allowing street parking near other beach accesses could keep people spread out. It may be necessary to close beaches near large cities, but limiting parking and/or road accesses to other beaches could make it possible for people to get out and relieve some stress. I have not gone to the beach although I would enjoy it, but am glad to see any opportunity to help people cope with the current situation. It will make it easier to get people to cooperate with the next lockdown. More than half the people in the stores near me are not wearing masks or wearing them around their necks.
I would really rather watch Netflix or play video games than try to convince people that the pandemic is real. When things get nasty online I usually just stop logging in. If medical personnel can stay at their posts and people like you can risk your health to keep the legal system limping along I will try to keep typing. Maybe some sunshine will help more people to listen.
agree completely with the sentiment
but actually SARS-CoV-2 is killed very quickly on a hot, sunny beach. How quickly it is killed depends on the temp and the brightness of the sunshine, but 90+ degrees and bright sunshine would probably inactivate it in less than 5 min. With proper distancing on a hot, sunny beach you are pretty safe.
I can't remember where I read it,
but I read somewhere that scientists are now back tracking what they initially believed about summer heat helping to kill the virus. They said they just didn't know enough to make the conclusion. It might have been something dropped in my email from Common Dreams.
I get about 10 subscription emails daily.
That article came in this morning.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I read the same thing
They will have to publish a time/temp/humidity kill rate for various environments.
Thanks, CB
I recently went to Ecuador, and it was hot as hell. And they have this virus there in spades. I always had a hard time reconciling the safety of our upcoming summer with that country.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
@CB
The belief that the warmth of summer would slow down the epidemic was a political one popularized by some politicians and faux news outlets. It has not been prevalent in any scientific literature I have seen.
Heat does make viruses deactivate more quickly. The paper you mentioned was interesting if this is the one you were talking about. As you noted this paper was really about lab safety for workers processing large numbers of samples contaminated with this virus and assorted other pathogens. People at the store or well separated on a beach would not risk this level of exposure.
Another paper from the same research group showed that mixing the virus with protein makes it last longer on surfaces. Wiping surfaces with soapy water should take care of that problem. The lipid membrane surrounding the virus that causes Covid-19 can be disrupted by soapy water.
Salt generally makes proteins clump together so high levels of salt may interfere with the spike protein that studs the lipid membrane. The virus uses the spike protein and lipids in its membrane to invade cells; salt in beach sand could help inactivate virus particles.
The UV light from the sunshine is probably the most effective way that viruses are inactivated outdoors. Almost all documented transmission has been indoors. If going to a beach can be done with safe distancing it may make cooperating with other restrictions more likely.
From what I've read,
agree on the UV(C) light being effective in neutralizing the virus, but not the heat, as the virus was spreading in the Southern Hemisphere several months ago, at the outset, when it was summer down there..
Also from what I've read somewhere, this virus tends to like moist environments, so areas with high humidity in the summer particularly will do worse than places with dry heat (this in contrast to typical flu viruses, which tend to do better in low humidity).
Moist environments -- a reminder that this Covid-19 can not only enter through the mouth and nose but the eyes, so best to wear safety goggles, non-fogging type, to protect yourself when you expect to be near other human forms.
Going to the beach should be less risky than staying indoors.
It would be great if we had a government that would follow scientific research to tell us the best practices, but we all just have to try to share what we have found with each other.
According to the article mentioned by CB, and other articles I have read, heat does decrease the amounts of virus present. One article was about inactivating the virus in blood products, although the temperatures needed were certainly much higher than summer in Florida. The temperature of hot sand should decrease the amounts of virus present more quickly than a cold surface would.
This virus is sweeping through a population with no immunity so any seasonal decrease would probably be too small to notice. I hope we get rid of this thing before we find out if there is a seasonal decrease.
Some reports do claim humidity decreases levels of virus. I have also read that the virus is deactivated more quickly when it is in dry environments. If this means that the virus contains water molecules that are necessary to maintain an infectious state then salt may help get rid of this virus. Salt draws water out of cells and might also be able to remove water from this virus if it is present. There is certainly enough salt in the air and on the sand at the beach.
We are constantly drawing air in through our noses (and/or mouths) so there is a risk of breathing in any viruses that may be present. Outside a hospital or lab I am not going to worry about my eyes. If you know about any goggles that are truly non-fogging please share.
Interesting, and it's
a reminder that scientists currently have more questions about the new virus than definitive answers. As for seasonality, this piece from Harvard's CCDD suggests the C-19 novel virus may not act with the seasonality seen in previous viruses, and that in prior cases often the seasonality issue gets muddied by other factors, like children not being in school in the summer, with children even in the current virus being a major group for transmission. Indeed a very underrated group for transmission with this virus as to date only few cases in children have been reported, but esp as the virus mutates this low-level situation may not necessarily hold.
On goggles, I've purchased 3 different ones, mostly from the low price end. In field tests of 2 so far, with both producing minimal fogging, clearly the better choice is to go with the ones which have the rubber seal at the edges and the (black) adjustable strap going around the back of the head, similar to what snorkelers use. Comfort level very good, seal around face is about 95%. Avoid if possible the cheap all-plastic goggles which offer no seal at the edges, although 50% protection is still better than none.
Competition swim goggles do not fog.
And, since you can buy them polarized or mirrored, they will protect your eyes from the same UV that kills viruses.
Did you read this?
https://caucus99percent.com/content/coronavirus-finishing-collapse-america
Maybe the people who are going to die (mostly 80+, comorbidity, etc.) should be quarantined and the rest of us take our chances in order to save the economy.
People demanding we save the nation at the cost of those who might die aren't the heartless ones, it's those demanding we quarantine everyone, not the one's most at risk, that are the heartless ones.
Preserving the economy
is the reason we did not act proactively to contain the virus when we had the chance. Preserving the economy is the reason trillions were poured into the economy through mega corporations rather than put into the hands of those in need. Preserving the economy is the reason we have our military securing other people’s natural resources around the globe. Preserving the economy is the reason we’ve been developing “defensive” bio-weapons for decades. Preserving the economy is the reason the planet is warming at an alarming rate. Preserving the economy is killing us.
Perhaps we should stop preserving the economy and shift our focus to preserving each other and our planet.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Or perhaps we should stop
behaving cowardly and start acting responsibly.
Exactly who are you calling cowardly?
Would you mind being specific as to who this insult is directed towards?
What is an acceptable hospitalization/morbidity rate for you?
Here are the weekly stats for new cases per 100,000 in NYC. BTW: while most who die are 75 or older, the majority of those hospitalized are age 18-74. https://github.com/nychealth/coronavirus-data/blob/master/by-age.csv
AGE_GROUP COVID_CASE_RATE HOSPITALIZED_CASE_RATE DEATH_RATE
0-17 years 286.93 24.44 0.58
18-44 years 2065.77 223.67 18.55
45-64 years 3375.5 828.14 172.95
65-74 years 3391.99 1604.59 566.86
75 and older 4078.25 2543.08 1413.41
Citywide total 2267.1 596.76 189.17
Looking forward to
more semi-opening up, especially restaurants. But will only frequent those with adequate outdoor seating and outdoors is the only place where it will be safe enough to eat.
In my sunny-clime area, there should be far more of the open-air eateries than exist, which has always been a bit of a puzzle. Additional city permit costs perhaps? If so, these need to be eliminated immediately, and restaurants given loans/grants to convert their spaces to accommodate more outdoor dining.
What worries me a bit is the risk of reopening schools too soon. How do you make that situation safer, esp with younger kids who can't be expected to be self-disciplined in behavior. As the virus stays around and mutates, it wouldn't surprise me if in the near future we start seeing more kids getting infected, and even getting seriously ill, or worse, at about the same rate as older adults.
Employees, PPE and restaurants
I haven't eaten even take-out since mid February. I am saving lots of money that way, but damnit I want some Pho, or Salvadoran pupusas, or greasy Tex-Mex cheese enchiladas. Hell, I'd settle for Pizza Hut or Taco Bell; but, I cannot guarantee that the person whose face holes are standing above and preparing/packaging/plating the food I'm about to put in my own face hole, are properly covered. I can see if the front of house is doing what they should be doing, but not back of house. There's also all the packaging with surfaces that could have the virus on the outside when it comes to take-out.
Employees shouldn't have to pay for their own PPE, but many of them are expected to. That's gotta change. I can certainly see why some don't wear it, but I can't give my money to a place where there is no PPE worn properly if I'm ingesting their product.
I have a friend on dialysis and we half jokingly set a date approximately 6 mos away. We're going for Pho if they're still open by then. I seriously miss eating away from home.
As a side note: people in the small town where I live react in generally two different ways to face masks. They either look at you like you have two heads, or they laugh and say shitty things, and even purposely get close to you. Needless to say, I haven't eaten locally in months, and likely won't any time soon.
We're all approaching
the current situation a little differently. Moi, back in early Feb or whenever it was I went a little overboard in some areas of worrying about this surface inside the house and that surface coming in from the outside.
Too much worrying, wasn't good for my overall mental health. I decided to pick and choose my battles on this thing, and maybe take care of some matters in the area of immune system strengthening, also in learning of ways to combat it effectively if I get unlucky.
I do occasionally go out to buy food, but only from places I know are taking reasonable precautions. The one or two supermarkets I frequent are strict about requiring masks on everyone, disposable gloves are available at the entrance, and there is the employee out there constantly cleaning shopping carts. All good signs. I've heard horror stories about some of the local chain supermarkets and their casual attitudes, and so I stay away. I'll gladly pay a little more to be a little safer in this area.
Ditto for takeout/delivery in restaurants. Take your business elsewhere if you feel uneasy about what you see. As for what you can't see in the back, I figure if conditions aren't right, word will leak out from the employees back there risking their lives, and the establishment will suffer greatly from the bad pub.
On fast food joints, I avoided them pre-virus bc of the low quality of food, high fat and sodium content, and other reasons that might arise involving young, low-wage employees. I'll take my chances at the fancier coastal elite places, and if things go awry, I'll at least have enjoyed a quality meal in my final days.
Who's really the selfish asshole:
The struggling, vulnerable plebe with a family to feed and shelter who has a >1% chance of dying from the virus but a 100% chance of losing everything EXCEPT the breath in their lungs if they can't start making money within the next month, and no idea when the Good Shepherds will "allow" them to resume living (all this in a society where no money = no nothin', too)
OR
the person who acts like the former person doesn't even exist and paints anyone who says anything critical of lockdown as just some kind of coal-blowing anti-vaxx consumerist sybarite?
It's funny; my sympathies don't normally lie with the common putz, but the same was true of Jonathan Swift's, and this feels like we're getting into "Modest Proposal" territory.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
If Washington was actually as panicked as they pretend to be
they would have spent the necessary money so that the poorest and most hard hit would have no reason to force the issue. But, as Rahm Emanual said “You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." And so the bastards are more interested in taking this opportunity to give away as much shit as possible to their rich friends. Anyone looking to place blame on someone for not taking the situation seriously needs to start at the top. And that doesn't even begin to explore how much damage it does to peoples' sense of civic responsibility when the corporate media is caught nearly continuously lying or exaggerating for the sake of what I assume is increased ratings and whatever other motives.