#UKElection Open Thread

Can't say I know much about the electoral process there, or can even offer a fair commentary of what to expect, or frame the situation for context.

But I have been enthused by the great outpouring of folks for Jeremy Corbyn and Labour's campaign, especially the youth. It's reminiscent of Bernie's here and obviously has ramifications for a global Left to gain footing. In an increasingly sputtering world of fascist voices filling the void where the "Left" have been masquerading too long on past glories as the party of the people it's very encouraging to see another clear and concise message, given by another genuine and authentic voice that slices right through the typical massive propaganda, to rally the masses under the auspices of the 99% and the dignified humanity of Socialism.

It would appear now, despite the rancid but predictable and tired attacks in what appears to be similar tactics to the ones used here of a coordinated collusion by the mainstream corporate media against Socialist candidacies, that Corbyn is in a better position than in a long time for Labour to make the most convincing argument that the Tories' lies about the "free market" and nationalism are a dead end.

Last night I went to a public meeting held at the UAW offices in midtown Manhattan of the Socialist Alternative folks who fought a brutal battle with Amazon in Seattle and came out victorious. To me it was a bellwether of how the Left is positioned to take on corporate monopolies, Big Money and the Oligarchy and defeat them by fighting proactively with real Socialist or Marxist praxis. I'll try to write up something about it if I can.

As it is right now I'm kind of on the edge of my seat. Though not knowing the ropes well enough to have any real idea either way of how it's going to go or how to interpret the real time results, there feels like something may be underfoot. Is the moment now, in light of a staggering number of global uprisings specifically class in nature and going up against corrupt governments, that it all starts coming together with a shift in consciousness reflected in electoral results?

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Mark from Queens's picture

in the room of global politics.

Seems even before vicious slime merchant Murdoch was on the scene scaring the populace on the eve of elections with his "turn out the lights" fear-mongering headlines spread across his daily rags aimed at the fear-laden working class casting their votes that day, his oligarch antecedents were showing him the way. Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Mark from Queens's picture

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Mark from Queens

Trending on Twitter.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Raggedy Ann's picture

UK election open thread, Mark. I’ve been following it closely on this website. If Corbin gets elected - all bets are off.

We are moving into a new consciousness. We’ve been in the third dimension of consciousness and are moving to the fifth. We’ll get there beginning in 2030, but in the meantime, we are in the fourth dimension of consciousness where third dimension hangers-on try to pull us back (Trump, Biden, Clinton, corporatists), while the millennials and GenZers are pulling us toward the fifth dimension of consciousness. It’s why I’m all over the youth taking us forward. Bernie was born before his time, but it’s taken him, starting in 2015, to awaken the population to this movement. We will get to, but not without the upheaval we are experiencing.

I’ll be checking in periodically. Polls close at 3:00pm my time (5:00 pm eastern), so I should know results by the time I’m enjoying my evening!
Pleasantry

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"When will our conscience's grow so tender that we will act to prevent human misery rather than avenge it?" Eleanor Roosevelt

"The secret of change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new." Socrates (469-399 BC)

Looks like Corbyn will out-perform polls again, but by how much?

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@gjohnsit
Funny how the media doesn't care about that.

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@gjohnsit I looked on his twitter but I can't read Russian however I don't see any government connection and the LDPR party of which he is a member. is a ultra right wing Party.
However it does feed the Russian meddling farce, but not a word about Boris' support here in the US, and I don't see people saying 'America supports Boris'. and fwiw that is not the Party of which Vladimir Putin is a member.

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@aliasalias
because if a single Russian supports someone, then it's the same as Russia!

At least that is the rules for anyone on the left. Or do those rules not apply to people on the right?

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Perhaps his best rant ever...

.

BORIS.jpg

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

ggersh's picture

https://www.commondreams.org/

"It's Happening," Declares Jeremy Corbyn as Early UK Election Reports Suggest "Longest Queues Ever"

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“Awesome! I always wondered what it was like to live during the times of the Civil War, Spanish Flu, Great Depression, Civil Rights Movement, Watergate, & the Dust Bowl. Not all at once mind you, but ya know, ‘beggars/choosers” and all.”

Mark from Queens's picture

The BBC may have just unwittingly revealed – or even committed – a huge breach of electoral rules. Giving a report via her phone this afternoon, the BBC’s political editor Laura Kuenssberg seemed to suggest that some unknown party had improper access to postal ballots:

"the postal votes, of course, have already arrived. The parties, they’re not meant to look at them, but they do kind of get a hint. And, on both sides, people are telling me that the postal votes that are in are looking very grim for Labour…"

Clearly, if true, this is a massive breach of electoral ethics. The electoral commission rules on postal ballots are very, very clear about how they’re handled prior to being counted [their emphasis]...

Nobody should have any idea what the results are! Especially not the Political parties themselves!

And they DEFINITELY shouldn’t be using them as a basis for campaigning, which this report most certainly was.

Consider the implications – these votes have not been counted yet, and yet we know someone has had illegal access to them. That impacts the integrity of the vote. If ballots can be seen before they’re counted, they can potentially be changed, destroyed, stolen or ignored.

Now, there is the possibility that it’s not true – that the postal ballots don’t favour the Tories and/or nobody has looked at them.

But that’s no better, as that would mean the BBC are reporting a lie to try and influence the vote.

True or false, the report exposes serious corruption.

Essentially, one of three things has happened:

1. Someone has had illegal access to the postal ballots before they’ve been counted and informed the BBC, who reported them – also illegally.
2. Someone leaked fake postal vote results, and the BBC reported them without question (again, illegally, or at least unethically).
3. The BBC’s political editor invented the whole story, and reported something she knew was a lie.

All three involve the BBC, and/or other unnamed parties, breaking the law in order to influence the election. This should be a massive scandal. One that could potentially call into question the integrity of the whole election.

Will there be a proper investigation?

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

to perpetuate their crimes, they bugger the election by blatantly cheating. Saw the yank's version of the same movie not too long ago.

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snoopydawg's picture

He might be able to get Assange out of the Belmarsh nightmare and stop him from being extradited here. I will be appalled if the Brits reelect Boris after the news about the NHS has come out. That alone would get me to the polls and maybe that is why the youth turn out is so high.

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"It seems to me that the problem is that group party interests, in this case, are placed above the interests of the entire society and the interests of people,"

@snoopydawg If Corbyn wins I believe Julian Assange finally has a chance to live and be free at last.

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snoopydawg's picture

I don't know what to think of anyone who votes for Boris. Just hoping that the big youth turnout means that they are voting for Corbyn.

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"It seems to me that the problem is that group party interests, in this case, are placed above the interests of the entire society and the interests of people,"

Mark from Queens's picture

with the kids, who are enjoying Socialist amenities and then have to pick a few groceries and cook. My lady is at her office Xmas party. Already gonna be a long night either way.

Alas I may miss the first results. Hope some folks can stand in to post what they’re seeing.

Thanks rebel hearts.

#CapitalismKills
#SocialismSaves

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Exit polls -- they used to be valid.

It would be the biggest Conservative victory since 1987 and Labour's worst result since 1935, the poll suggests, with the party forecast to lose 71 seats.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-2019-50765773

If so, it seems that the UK wants Brexit more than anything else.

Mr Johnson focused relentlessly on a single message: "Get Brexit done", promising to take the UK out of the EU by 31 January 2020 if he got a majority.

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ggersh's picture

@davidgmillsatty @davidgmillsatty and the english want to privatize the NHS
the dots don't connect.....long lines usually
mean change

“Those who vote decide nothing. Those who count the vote decide everything.”

― Joseph Stalin

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“Awesome! I always wondered what it was like to live during the times of the Civil War, Spanish Flu, Great Depression, Civil Rights Movement, Watergate, & the Dust Bowl. Not all at once mind you, but ya know, ‘beggars/choosers” and all.”

@davidgmillsatty
Hard Brexit or the NHS.

They chose a Hard Brexit.
I'm happy that they got what they wanted.

They better hope that they never get sick.

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@gjohnsit I think this threat will not materialize. The people understood it for the threat it was.

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@davidgmillsatty
Not all at once, but it's fate is now sealed.

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@gjohnsit Where is the proof? People claim Medicare is toast all the time as well.

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WaterLily's picture

Why do I feel like I've seen this all before?

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Mark from Queens's picture

Still it's fucking so depressing to be smacked like this.

Well, we know that the exit polls for the 2016 primary were waaaayyyy off. And for three days after the Seattle election while the votes were still being counted Kshama was losing - until she won.

I don't know. Haven't begun to really look. But it looks bad.

Chapo's raging:

The amount of £ your insulin just went up by

Get ready to learn what a deductible is you British cunts

Fuck this godforsaken country

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

snoopydawg's picture

@Mark from Queens

They knew what was on the line and it looks like that's what they voted for. Did you watch the video I posted? Anyone who saw it and voted for Johnson anyway...well you get what you vote for.

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"It seems to me that the problem is that group party interests, in this case, are placed above the interests of the entire society and the interests of people,"

Mark from Queens's picture

@Mark from Queens

"some of them deserve this. too many of them do not. hellworld expands."

"The trees really are voting for the fucking axe."

"logs in favor of the fire because they can no longer feel the sun.

Imagine living in a state of perpetual fear and hatred"

"One of the most frustrating things for me is that so many people this election have voted purely because of their stance on brexit despite still not really knowing what brexit is about or how it will affect them"

"Man I hope tory voters enjoy learning what a fucking deductible is. Hope those $2000 rides to the hospital are worth trying to vote the "coloreds" off the island."

" - coloreds

Excuse me, in the UK, it's spelled "couloureds"

"Blairites are coming out the wood work. This is getting bad"

"the guardians front page reminds me of that black mirror episode"

"Pros: United Ireland and Independent Scotland (maybe)

Cons: Everything else is completely fucked (definitely)"

"well im switching my major from poli sci to computer science fuck politics, wonkery wont work and neither will revolution, at this point our larping is another dumbass escapism, might as well play vidya, least then i get dopamines this shit is straight depressing."

"Drunk and listening to The Smiths, but for fucks sake.

Brexit fucked us. Brexit party spoiled the vote in the leave areas, Lib Dems in the remain areas. Add to that the anti semitism slurs and the general bias and its no sodding wonder we're completely fucked. Short of a last minute miracle, Corbyn is being marched out of the party and Blairite scum are going to take over again and Labour won't win again for another decade.

Yet again came down to older voters and yet again we were cucked by old fuckers who will be dead in less than a decade.

So as I said earlier, it's time for us all to join the IRA."

"Strong vent right here: I have two daughters, ages 2 and 8 months. My youngest has a serious heart defect and she'll be lucky to live past 30. We've been through two open heart surgeries in this year alone. Depleting our life savings with every visit to the cardiologist even with insurance. It crushes my soul to think all of this is only so that she can be a slave to capital in a world even less forgiving than the one we live in now, on a planet that will only make quality of life even shittier as time goes on. To think that my healthy daughter is literally in the exact same boat is enough to get me sharpening some scrap metal. I was feeling encouraged about Bernie but now I feel as discouraged as ever."

"Well congrats Tory voters. You deserve everything that's coming your way. I hope that maybe having fewer Polish folks around is worth going into debt to pay your medical bills, getting stomped on by capital, and having your grandkids have to move to New Sealand thanks to climate change was all worth it. Rot in hell, everyone who voted Tory. Our Labour comrades definitely do NOT deserve it."

"Somebody in r/ukpolitics just said, "As a Canadian, it sure is annoying watching this British election, it's taking too long for the results to come out."

That made me think about the Bolivian election. Evo Morales got overthrown because of a delay in the vote counting. It was a perfectly legitimate delay, due to them having to physically transport the voting boxes down from the mountains on donkeys, but the OAS and the right wing opposition overturned the election and forced him to flee the country anyway. If only there was an organization that could do the same thing to Britain. Fair is fair."

"Well, on the bright side at least Americans can now understand the exact feeling everyone else had when Trump was elected.

"Uh, him? What? Why? This can't be right..."

"The unpleasant truth is that this country needs to go through a lot more pain before people see Boris Johnson for the devil he is. Hard Brexit and austerity are going to double team fuck the poor of this country and I can only hope we can all endure it"

"That seems to be happening in the USA. I couldn't believe that people voted for Trump only 8 years after Bush left, it was so depressing. But now the American left, which had been more or less dead for over 50 years, is making a major comeback."

"The US is in such a different position for so many different reasons, the main one I think being that society has been slowly weened off the social programs of the new deal for more than 50 years now, whereas we’re seeing the dismantling of the NHS in front of our eyes in England.

What’s coming for a lot of working class English people is a massive safety net that has been there for them for generations is now going to be whipped away from underneath and the market pressure of leaving the customs trade union is going to crush them from above. I really think that if a hard Brexit goes through under this government we’ll see socioeconomic backsliding unmirrored in human history."

"ngl for the past year I've been having premonitions of war and widespread, meaningless death. I took mushrooms and it warned me of pain and great suffering. I see what it's all been trying to show me. You are right. Our purposes are to die in a revolution."

"It won't be so glorious. The world is just gonna fade away. People will start dying younger and younger and you'll have less and less security in your life and the only people who will break through will be fascist goons who just make things worse. I don't fucking know. I don't think anybody actually knows. This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WTBkj8gFfI&has_verified=1 is gonna be the soundtrack of the future"

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

From the early Labour district returns in the northeast, results showing Cons vote remaining steady while Labour loses a big chunk to the Brexit party.

Swing voters in Labour districts don't want a second referendum.

If Corbyn loses, that's a big reason.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Shahryar's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

it's because the Blairites in Labour kneecapped him. They'd rather have Johnson than Corbyn, just like certain Democrats would rather have Trump than Bernie.

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@Shahryar Especially rural Britain. They have taken a royal fucking since Britain joined the EU.

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travelerxxx's picture

@davidgmillsatty

They have taken a royal fucking since Britain joined the EU.

I suspect they are about to find out what a royal fucking really consists of.

Brexit or no, they've jumped from the frying pan into the fire.

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@Not Henry Kissinger Why can't people see that the EU was exactly the same kind of system we had after the Revolutionary War before we had the Constitutional Convention. The EU was just a loose Confederacy in which the powerful states absolutely dominate the weak states with no checks and balances.

Then it had a currency that was not a governmental currency and so the weaker states could do nothing to manage their own economies.

I think this is a great day. And I don't think the threat of losing the NHS will happen. Just a bunch of neoliberal bullshit.

Maybe the EU will collapse. Good riddance if it does.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

@davidgmillsatty Neoliberalism is now enshrined into the treaties of Lisbon and Maastrich. But the Tories will be very bad and there is a good chance that Corbyn will be replaced by a Blairite so this is a bad day.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger In his own party he has left leavers and remainers so he tried to fudge things. His stance was negotiate and re-vote and this did not please many, but there was no winning strategy for him. In addition, there are probably lots of leavers that would have voted Labour if the UK had already left the EU, but they want to get out of the EU and get out now so they voted Tory. Corbyn has also been demonized by the neoliberal media and that didn't help.

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GreatLakeSailor's picture

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Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor & Big Peace.

Bollox Ref's picture

But the awful DePiffle, who runs away from any unscripted moment, appears to have victory in the bag.

The mind boggles. Nine years of austerity and incompetence and the English (not the Scottish) vote for this toxic brew.

I was never keen on Corbyn, but he at least offered a way forward through the poison of Brexit. Now it'll be a Tory Brexit, and more of the dreadful same.

And the inevitable break up of the UK. Apparently, a decent, national broadband plan was just too 'socialistic'. A 'public good' too far. "Let's Make Britain Less Global"

I give up.

Plus, Brexit will deprive me of my EU citizenship (my son also), which really cheeses me off.

(Edited)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Bollox Ref @Bollox Ref

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

thanatokephaloides's picture

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

mimi's picture

@Bollox Ref
Does the EU issue an EU passport? Is there a diplomatic passport for EU member states? If yes I want one. Oh boy, what a world.

I am so confused.

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Bollox Ref's picture

@mimi

part of the EU. All citizens of EU countries have EU citizenship, i.e., freedom of movement to live and work within the EU without barriers. If I had the money and a house to live in, I could just travel and live in Turin.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref Bulgarians, etc...came to GB and were willing to work for slave labor, house in fire trap apartment buildings, because there were no jobs at home. Stress on the NHS ensued.
Benefit to a laborer in GB was...what?
It is always couched in racist terms, when the problem from inception was foreign poor white people competing for jobs with English white poor/working people. Foreigners won. They accepted the slave wages.
This flipped back today, except the GB laborers do not know what is coming with their health care.
Steep learning curve.

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mimi's picture

@Bollox Ref @Bollox Ref
then, do I have double citizenship? A German one with a German Passport and a European one, because Germany is member state of the EU?
Wink
Bingo. I am lucky.

I assume you refer the Shengen Visa applications.
Schengen Visa Information

Schengen Visa Information
What is Schengen?

Schengen refers to the EU passport-free zone that covers most of the European countries. It’s the largest free travel area in the world.
What is a Schengen Visa?

A Schengen visa is a short-stay visa that allows a person to travel to any members of the Schengen Area, per stays up to 90 days for tourism or business purposes.

The Schengen visa is the most common visa for Europe. It enables its holder to enter, freely travel within, and leave the Schengen zone from any of the Schengen member countries. There are no border controls within the Schengen Zone.

However, if you are planning to study, work, or live in one of the Schengen countries for more than 90 days, then you must apply for a national visa of that European country and not a Schengen Visa. Over 14.2 million people used their Schengen visa in 2018 to travel around Europe.

... and if you want to work or study, then you need more than a national travel visa as well.

there are visas and then there are other visas and a lot of conditions must be met to be allowed to work in the EU member states.

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@Bollox Ref @Bollox Ref There probably are some Americans who wanted an American Union and if we had one and voted to exit they would be pissed as well.

Your countrymen have spoken and many of them hated the EU. And as I pointed out the US tried that kind of confederacy of states before we had our Constitution and it didn't work. I am surprised the EU has lasted as long as it did, especially given the fact that governments did not have their own currency to handle their own economic problems.

You blame the austerity that you have gone through on the wrong people. That was caused by the EU bankers, not a particular government. Or if was caused by a particular government, well then it was caused by the most powerful one or two who had some power over the banks.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@davidgmillsatty

They had the same problems plus the war they so rashly started, and the whole thing fell apart in less than five years.

Incidentally, the whole Confederacy/Virginia/West Virginia situation demonstrated blatant hypocrisy on both sides. The Federal government argued that it was Not OK for any states to secede from the Union, but that it was OK for any part-of-a-state that wanted to secede from the Confederacy and become a Union state to do so. The Confederacy argued that secession from the Federal union was OK, but secession of West Virginia from Virginia was Not OK.

Go figure....

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven And people still contemplate it all the time. Which pissed off state wants to secede this year?

But without some kind of federal government over all the states, confederations just don't work.

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Lily O Lady's picture

has grabbed people by the emotions and dragged them into doing something stupid. Bernie is relying on person to person contact to counteract all the BS the press puts out. I hope it works out for us. The Brits will discover how screwed they are, probably without knowing why.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady The Brits were already screwed having joined the EU in the first place. When you make that bad of a mistake to begin with, there is bound to be some pain getting out of it.

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Hawkfish's picture

“Democracy is the belief that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Link to the actual results. Other links appreciated if this isn't accurate https://www.bbc.com/news/election/2019/results

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They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore

thought Corbyn could eke out a win.
I should have known better than to have hope.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@on the cusp

I am kicking myself that I actually thought Corbyn could eke out a win.
I should have known better than to have hope.

It would appear that the Anglo-Welsh working classes are into a bit of BDSM, as they've just elected the greatest Pain Parliament in the UK's history!

"Stupid git!" -- M. Python

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

BDSM is...

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@on the cusp

I have no clue what BDSM is...

bondage/dominance/sado-masochism

(other spell-outs apply, following the same general idea)

Wink

with the Parliament that the UK just elected, Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will be singing this in a year:

"..... it's my destiny to be the Queen of Pain...."

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

TheOtherMaven's picture

If it's black boxes, the matter is relatively self-explanatory. (We're going to get the same screwing-over, twice as hard, in less than a year.)

Hand-counted paper ballots would require rather more explanation....

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@TheOtherMaven Historically the Brits have used paper ballots. I have not heard of any change to the contrary.

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@davidgmillsatty

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