Why Hillary
Hi Guys,
I know I'm new here. I have many things to explain, much to apologize for, and to justify my existence... I know.
I will start with many thanks for the warm welcome I've received here. You all are amazing.
OK - here we go... Why I voted for Hillary...
I know change is slow - slower then we want it to be. I grew up as a Dem in Oklahoma - I'm used to losing elections. I also know that change is slow. The movement behind Bernie is amazing. I want that to be the change.
But I also know that change is fucking slow. We've seen how process kills progressive ideas. Congress sucks.
I voted for Hillary because I want to see a machine behind something vaguely resembling progressive.
This isn't my best writing - I'm not sure this is my best thinking... but here it is
Comments
Super brave
But...what vague things resembling progressive ideas are you expecting to see? I know many people who believe as you do, decent, bright people. They like and dislike many things that I do. But they can't fully point to how those things might slightly be embodied by Clinton.
I don't know
I'm being honest here...
I want a Sanders' world. I've wanted since the 80s. But we've all seen what Congress did to our President (who isn't close to being a progressive). After all that time, I want a machine.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
I understand
But the thing is that Obama has stemmed much of the tide of the rightwing, while not actually leading progressive chsnge. Kind of a glass half full or empty situation, more full if we consider the lack of progressive options we had in 08 or 12. But we can do more. And we have that chance for the first time in literally decades. Why not seize the chance now to see if we can't get closer to what we want to see?
I do
Holy heck, I want that chance.. I just don't trust it.
I've wanted to break the glass. In this season, I chose that.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Not to sound snarky
But the only glass that's broken with Hillary as our first female president is that a women can be just as detrimental to the progressive cause, just as co-opted by moneyed interests as any man.
It's a false choice, and one that the Wall Street and special interest crowd has become very adept at: co-opting progressive movements by co-opting movement leaders and creating a false front, a Potemkin kind of diversity, where the appearance of diversity is used to play identity politics while the substance of how diversity is supposed to help undeserved constituencies is ignored.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
Well said!
I dislike the glass ceiling argument more and more. The wrong glass ceilings get broken with HRC and few of the ones that need breaking. Beyond the optics of change, I'd expect a fair amount of worsening and increasing societal diminishment.
And not to be a complete bitch
but Sarah Palin herself tried using that glass ceiling argument....
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Stemmed the tide of what?
Sorry I live in a different planet, the planet I live on has increasing income inequality and is about to stumble into a extinction event called Climate Change.
Obama is an incrementalist. Incrementalists like Obama & Hillary are not going to save the planet.
Just not seeing that.
FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.
I understand
but who will fix it?
These are issues that need attention right now. Will President Trump or Cruz do that?
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
We might fix it
if we try. Government is a we process in a democracy. I can't fix anything, you can't fix anything, neither Hillary nor Bernie nor anyone can or will fix a damn thing.
None of us ever gets what we want unless we first ask for it and then actively work to get it. Action sometimes requires loudly, emphatically demanding it and doing the work to make it happen. Change is not happenstance. It comes only about through hard work built on strong ideas. This works on an individual basis or on a nationwide basis the only difference being the number of people required to make it happen.
Bernie sure has a bunch of ideas. I have to say so does Hillary. Bernie's more closely match my ideas of how this country should work. Nothing you've said so far indicates to me that her ideas closely match yours. On the contrary you have said exactly the opposite. I happen to agree with you that Bernie's ideas are vastly superior to Hillary's and the only ideas out of the right wing are we want it all and all y'all can go fuck yourselves. Why do you think you should compromise your life by supporting a candidate who doesn't work for your best interests? Worse, work against your interests in service to the interests of their interests and donors. I think all of us deserve better than that.
I think you're hung up on the apparatus of action. The Clinton "machine" you speak of is formidable. It does in fact get things done. The question you should answer for yourself is - are the things they get done beneficial to improving my life? An answer in the affirmative would, to me, suggest you are supporting the right candidate. The opposite, a negative response, might be a damned fine reason to ask yourself why you should not have the leader of our government who does not have as a primary driving principle to improve the lives of every single person in our country. Don't you that you deserve a a government and it's leaders who are not corrupt?
I will grant you that a Sanders administration will have a very big task staffing itself with people with Bernie's ideas, ethics, enthusiasm, and drive for meaningful change. That is one concern I have not been able to reconcile. I do know he has built one hell of an organization from nothing in a very short time that has the Clinton machine scared shiftless. He's rocked their world while rejecting the corrupt money, attack politics, identity politics, triangulation, fear, and personal smears. He's rejected all of the tools that are thought to be necessary for a modern campaign and is giving them a helluva run. I'm willing to give him the benefit of my doubt that he can do it in the White House.
Trump or Cruz? One step at a time. The only presidential candidate I have voted for in my adult life is Obama in 2008. I voted against a candidate in every other election. I cannot say I will not do it again. There is always the possibility I will feel compelled to under some unforeseeable circumstances. I'd prefer to let the nomination process play out fully and then decide. I am disinclined to vote out of fear.
Look, I respect your choice. I disagree with it. Strongly. I also don't entirely think you agree with yourself and are looking for a reason to let go. Think about that idea of letting go a moment. Sometimes we have to convince ourselves that something in our life isn't working for us. I think that is what you're saying here. Let it go if it doesn't work for you. You'll be fine. eventually, you'll find something else that does work for you. I think you know what that is with respect to this election but just can't quite release that old habitual thinking. I've been there many times. Give it a trial run. You can always go back if the new ideas don't fit.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Everything you say
is everything I've thought. I've struggled with my vote. I've struggled with the movement. I want a true progressive to have a voice.
I just don't want another 4 or 8 years of obstructionism again. I can't live through that again - I'm too old.
So, I voted for the machine. I'm not proud of it, but I don't think I'm wrong.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Each of us does
what we think is best for us at the time we do it. You thought Hillary was the best choice at the time. You have doubts. OK, no worries. You have the education to teach in higher education so I assume you have the capacity to rationally examine both candidates positions. You will either confirm your choice or decide to change candidates. There is nothing wrong about changing your mind. Or not. You don't have to do it now. Hang around here and listen to opposing viewpoints. Try to understand them rather than looking for counter arguments. Be honest with yourself. You're work it out.
One point I think should be obvious. Electing Hillary will not change R obstructionism. They hated Hillary decades before they hated Obama. None of us will like it but we will live through it.
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
Thank you
I think its my education that gets me in trouble... I think too much.
But when 4 students out of 100 raised their hand to say that they've voted (or will vote)? I can see 35 Bernie stickers on their laptops...I don't trust the movement.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Sounds like you do not trust yourself as a teacher
You asked for a show of hands and you also had a perfect teachable moment. Did you use it?
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
And you said you want your college freshmen to teach YOU things.
Looks like you lost an opportunity to learn something from them. Maybe you cd ask them next time you meet with them and pass the info along. I would think the Sander's campaign would find their responses helpful going forward.
I know I'm late responding
The push to Finals started the week after I posted the OP.
To answer your question... I did use the moment. But remember that "Voting 101" isn't the class I teach. I can teach them how political ads work, how politicians make themselves 'look like you' or how politics works as a stereotype. But how to vote isn't, and shouldn't, be in my job description.
I encouraged them to vote. I even gave them time from class to go vote. That's all I can do. It's not my teachable moment.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
I think all of the time and
still do not believe that "I think too much."
There are any number of reasons why students did not raise their hands that would invalidate reaching the conclusion you did. Things like how the question was worded, expectations of what raising one's hand would mean and the classroom dynamics very likely affected the result.
While I use a 1-4 listing here, the following is an ongoing process. As a person who has taught mostly freshman classes, I had a lot of open discussions with my students. The first thing I did was build a trusting relationship with my students. The second was to make sure that they felt comfortable in the classroom to express their thoughts with the entire class. The third was to make sure they understood that any opinions that disagreed with mine would not affect their grades (actually part of the trust issue, but important enough for a third point). Fourth, I tried very hard not to communicate my preferences before the class had a chance to communicate theirs. My classes had some absolutely wonderful discussions, and I think we all learned a lot.
PS. Just because you voted for HRC it does not mean that you cannot now campaign for Sanders. = )
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
What makes you think
What makes you think Republicans would not do everything they could to obstruct Hillary? The Republican base will destroy any Republican in Congress who allows ANY proposal from a Clinton administration to pass.
Understand Your view - but don't agree
This Earth does not have much time... 4 or 8 more years of incrementalism could spell the end of the Game...and not speaking of the political game.
The Environment's degradation will not wait. Every second counts. Sometimes we have to gamble and throw caution to the wind...IMO this is one of those times.
Too much is a stake. I am old too... but I want to give the young a fighting chance to salvage the best quality of life they can in the future. Those 4 or 8 years could make a huge difference to them.
As far as the environment goes, I don't see much daylight between HRC, Cruz and Trump. (Other issues yes - but speaking exclusively of the environment here.) Bernie will give Hope and put us on the path to overcoming the inertia and gridlock to the start of real Environmental Policy change immediately. The Executive Branch can have an impact there immediately without waiting for Congress in many areas.
Understand your view, very very strongly disagree with you - but will still be happy to sit down with you on the front porch, tip a few and watch the grass grow.
Peace
FEEL THE BERN: "But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine
"Here I Stand, I can do no other." - Attributed to Martin Luther, 1521
I feel the same way now too
we no longer have time for triangulation and incrementalism. And while I fear greatly a Repugnant POTUS, and for some pretty personal reasons (loss of SS as I am "only" 54, loss of Medicare, poverty in old age, etc.) maybe it's time for me to stop thinking about me too. I may get slammed for this comment, but I've about come to the point that maybe me, and my generational cohort, might have to prepare to be that older generation that gets thrown to the proverbial wolves. While I don't look forward to that, maybe that's the price I have to pay for my niece and nephew to get a better country?
Both parties use that type of fear to get votes, maybe it's time to stop giving in to them. And time to realize too, that God forbid, even if the T Rump wins, it doesn't mean instant death. But maybe it drives the ship of state off that cliff a bit faster, and maybe that helps get the necessary traction and attention for real change. Maybe when things get so shitty that even a Tea Bag can see just who really fucked them over, maybe then we get change. I have long thought that if that Tea Party ever REALLY wakes up? God help any politician. If that indignation and anger were channeled to real change instead of bigotry and stupidity? Who knows what might happen?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I don't get this?
"I just don't want another 4 or 8 years of obstructionism again."
So why go with the candidate that polarizes the Left and rallies the Right? I would think being a "machine" candidate in this setting makes things worse, not better. If anything, having a president who has been an independent for so long would be the best hope to avoid 4-8 years of obstructionism, where a president Hillary all but guarantees it.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
The machine you voted for only gives a shit about itself
...not those of us who make up the bulk of the country. You'll likely come out on the 'winning' side of the nomination equation. Congratulations. I'm pretty sure that *if* she becomes president (which I do not believe she can since the people she motivates to get to the polls in droves are folks coming out to vote AGAINST her and the DNC has been making a point to drive down people exercising their franchise this season) that you will find yourself similarly disappointed by what her machine shows up to 'get things done' as you are today.
I'd ask you to get back to me on that, but I'm pretty sure I don't have sufficient heart left to live through another Clinton Administration. If Bernie gets in I'll try like heck to stay around so I can watch all I can and participate. Hillary's made clear she's fighting *for* us, should she get the office, she'll take it from here (just like the last guy). Point being, since I can't do much to provide her with funds, I realize that my citizenship doesn't mean much if she's in charge.
You did what you felt was correct. Your showing up here with the outcasts illustrates that you don't believe what you are saying very deeply. I am sorry about that. Good luck with what you are supporting. This is America, so you are fully entitled to vote as you see fit.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Oh man, now HRC herself
will NOT have an easy time of it. We can indeed look forward to Repugnant obstruction there no matter what their tacit support for her now.
I am concerned for Bernie and a cabinet too. But I do feel like the one really big thing he could use, with both Congress and particularly the media, is the bully pulpit. Bernie isn't going to get distracted with stupidity, and he'll call it out, from anywhere he sees it. The fact that he always tries to FORCE our media to talk real issues, they haven't had to deal with that type of leader in a long, long damned time. Would it not be something to see a POTUS who doesn't give bullshit platitude answers? I mean think about that, a REAL media, that has to answer REAL questions? To quote the T Rump, that really would be YUUUUGE, a radical paradigm shift for Murka. Perhaps.
You may be kind of where I was with Mr Obama. I wanted so badly to believe it really was just all Repugnant obstruction, that he really DID want to do things to help our entire country and not just the rich. And then he came out forcefully for the TPP, and tried using that blatant Repugnant obstruction narrative to tell us all how great it is for America. Damn, I admit, it fucking hurt at the time, felt damned near like a personal affront. But you gotta face that betrayal and realize these people are NOT your friends, they do NOT care about you, they do NOT care about the climate, they do NOT care how many wars they have to fight to stay in power. They care only FOR power, period. They just want to "win" it for themselves, not us.
I am still mulling whether I can hold my nose for HRC if she gets that nom. Months ago I would have said hell yes, I'd do whatever necessary to keep a Repugnant out. But now? Not so sure anymore. I am tired of letting these fuckers off the hook, tired of being lied to and taken advantage of.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I value my nose too much.
Not going to compromise anymore come what may...see my sig.
FEEL THE BERN: "But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine
"Here I Stand, I can do no other." - Attributed to Martin Luther, 1521
Certainly not the Democratic machine
your talking about trusting. We the people have to fix it by getting rid of the machine Democrat's who are owned by the !%. They have hijacked the electoral process and own and run both parties. The elitist 1% have no interest or intent in stopping global warming,fixing income disparity, stopping these bloody wars for profit or reining in the police state. The Democrat's are not the lesser evil machine, they just have a more rational mask on. Your choice is Koch Brothers vs.Goldman Sachs and regardless of who you choose your going to get a two fer.
Fear is a mind killer so my advise is to get over fearing the Republican's or 'terrist's who are gonna kill yer family'. I do not understand why you would trust the Clinton's and not Bernie. I don't not put my trust in pols or party's instead I trust in the people globally who do have the power to stop the Visigoth's when they go too far. Bernie's message is, Us not me. He is empowering people to not believe that this is not all you can get. They want you to be afraid, they fill you with fear because then you will consent to give them power.
My other suggestion is stick around and read about the reality and truth that the establishment propaganda machine does not talk about. Follow the links there are great progressive/liberal sites online where you can learn a lot and that will dispel your misplaced fears. Realize that the barrage of No Can't and it's better to go slow is just bs. another way to get you to consent to their agenda that is not democratic and cares not for the planet or humans. By the way Obama did not do a damn thing to hold back the Republicans and neither did the Democratic congress critters. They sucked as the majority which they blew off in 2010 and then they sucked as the loyal opposition. 60 does not equal a majority. Why didn't they do some obstructing of their own hummm?
'Don't follow leaders and watch the parking meters.'
I'm using 'trust' broadly
I read (and am reading here). I guess my 'trust' is meant more the devil you know.
Yes, we have to fix this. Politics needs to change. The depth of the money (who is a person who can't be sued) is abhorrent.
But I've seen this before. We've all seen this before.
I can't fix it with a vote. I can't fix it with money. I can't fix it at all. I need something to work, so I clinched my arse, held my nose, and voted for the machine.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
People that "hold their nose" and
vote for anyone should be required to, whenever and always, when in public hold their nose for four consecutive years. The nose-holder has gotten used to it, but the stink follows them everywhere. Or, maybe calling out the word "Unclean" at least every five minutes...
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
You voted for the devil.
Own it.
All a machine wants is to get its own way
The Dem machine in my county actually lost the popular vote to Bernie, however, they suspended the rules at the county convention and there will be distinctly fewer Bernie delegates to state than Hillary delegates in spite of us having won the vote. Some of it they orchestrated, some of it was unfortunate coincidence, but by suspending the rules, they made clear that they were exercising the their power by fiat and the rest of us were inconsequential.
My local party was abjectly disloyal to me, and honestly, as a result I'm a lot less concerned about whether they exist into the future than I was last week.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Or
A president Clinton for that matter?
The kids in your class with Bernie stickers on their laptops
And adults that haven't given up hope. Pete Seger described social change this way. It's like a heavy weight on one end of scale and an empty bucket on the other. Each action towards the swinging of the scale is a small scoop of sand into the bucket. Change happens very quickly when that last critical scoop is put into the bucket. Up until that moment, it seems an impossibility in light of all the work that's gone into the effort with no discernible effect. In an instant though, the scale flips and change happens.
Seriously?
I'm over here. Are you looking to your left? That's me. Stem your anger. Are you saying that things are just as bad now as 8 to 15 years ago? I said quite clearly he had not led a progressive revolution. However, are you ready to argue that all things considered, with zero progressive candidates (ok, ok, Jill stein), that Obama has not been an improvement over Bush or what mighty heap of dung either Mitt or McCain might have shoveled onto this nation? Geez, progressive doesn't mean a complete lack of perspective.
My first hint of anger here
The type of anger that got me kicked off thst which will not be named after a single post. I'm trying to meet a Hillary supporter halfway, to try to learn more about her support. I don't see how a strident position resolves anything, but congrats on all the thumbs up. Maybe it's too late for me to post, becsuse this has me steamed. G'night.
I hope you're not steamed on my account
I have thick skin, a hard head and 4 cats...and I wrote what I wrote.
Please don't be steamed - I'm a veteran of TOS and I kinda asked for this. I'm being honest.
Folks asked and I answered.
Thank you for being kind
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
About thumbs, (opposable or not)
I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't necessarily vote an up thumb because I agree with (the collective) you, but rather am up-rating the honest discourse and the courage of putting your thought process 'out there' for scrutiny, knowing it's not the prevailing sentiment but being willing to discuss openly. You have allowed yourself to be frank knowing you stood a good chance of having the majority portion of the folks here critically object to your choice, yet here you are. I can't agree with your vote, but I do commend your integrity for being willing to put your argument up for discussion.
We don't have to all agree, I hope, but civil discourse about that which we don't agree on should be the norm we work for. No pie fights, no flags, no 'shaming' ... See, already we've gotten to a better place!
"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~
Hi there
There's no anger here - I just can't fucking muster it any more. But, for honesty, lets take it one by one..
Things are better now that they were 8-15 years ago. I can now get a job that nets me slightly less than my mortgage for teaching fucking freshmen. Then? I literally (not ironically_ ) driving 45 minutes to make less money to do the same thing. Yeah college!
So I will start with this..., free community college. Fantastic idea. Now, pay me. Now pay high schools to actually educate students. I, a college professor, am tired of teaching students how to do long division in a effing Psych class.
Second...
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Y'know
when you're staring at a 35 year old pile of horse shit in your yard, and all you have is a garden trowel, you have to expect to get some down your back. But if you dive in and keep scooping,at some point the pile is gone and the grass is greener. Bernie seems to be the only one not climbing the hill to add to the horse shit.
Bernie may not accomplish much as Prez, but I dread and fear what any of the others will accomplish. Even standing still is preferable to losing more ground.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Really?
"I want a machine."
There already IS a machine. And you voted for it. Bully for you.
I want something done
7 years of slogging through crap. I'll take even something slightly leftish.
Persuade me - how does Bernie get it done? With this congress? With the next?
ETA - cat... I blame a cat...
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Thought excercise
How does Hillary get anything done with the next congress? This one will be long gone like the circus although the fucking clowns might miss the bus. You really think it will be different?
"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."
I don't know
but I think her machine might be better?
Gods, that's a crap answer.
I want things... I want health care for everyone. I want marriage for everyone. I want education for everyone. I want humanity for everyone....
And I will never see those things in my lifetime. I've been working for this for 40 years.
I voted for her because I think I might see some of them...
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
I'm 61.
I want all of those things you want too...and may never see them in what is left of my lifetime. It may be too late for me...But, I want them for my grandchildren. I want their lives to be better than mine. It is that simple. That is how a Progressive thinks... forward... for the future generations. For the common good...
Do you honestly think the Clinton machine, powered by the money of the 1% and the MegaCorps, will get you those things such as single payer healthcare, free college, decent paying jobs, peace in the world, when it will cost them some of their profits?
Or could the People Powered machine of Sanders be the one to actually make things happen? There are more of us than there are of them... our machine is bigger, and when moved to action, badder.
And this notion that he cannot win... well, no, he cannot...not unless we actually VOTE for him...
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I am older than you, 68, and maybe older than the author
although her/his comments about licking envelopes for the Roosevelts kind of threw me, while his/her memories of other events seem to be from someone much younger.
That said, I sincerely agree with you that Clinton will not do anything of import, except perhaps to get more American women and men killed in 'wars of choice,' with none of her supporters sacrificing a whit. It is also obvious to me that except for Ginsberg on SCOTUS, the Clinton years were a disaster for the liberal view of America. Not only because of policy, but also because of the vile behaviors of the POTUS and the ongoing Clinton legal issues. Anyone who believes that PBO attracted more conflict than WJC and HRC was either not alive in the 90's or does not remember that era well.
I think it's worse than that.
Congress has set up a cottage industry for themselves where they get paid more for doing their job less. The worse they do the better their compensation.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
My problem with what you wrote, is that you want a machine.
Would have let this pass without comment except:
Exactly
...although I would add that it was during the Clinton Admin that we constantly had to hear about 'welfare queens' and saw assistance hacked back and the rise of private prisons partially fueled by that 'super predator' language. Thanks, Bill.
The Republicans did not have sufficient grounds to impeach Obama or they would have. But they are salivating to impeach her the moment she's sworn in. And it's circus time AGAIN. Sheesh.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Uh...
What do you think they are going to do to Hillary if the congress still resembles its current incarnation after November? Sanders has far more experience dealing with congress than does Hillary.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
This is no time
to lack the courage of your convictions. Ambivalence kills.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Congress did what they did to Obama because he's black
Not because he's progressive. He isn't. His positions and actions fall about in line with Reagan's.
I appreciate you stating your position, but I get really frustrated with premature defeatism. Also, you haven't seen obstructionism until you see the GOP with Hillary. Look at the Benghazi crap, they never let it go.
I don't want to take my frustrations out on you though. I just can't see what wasting 8 more years is going to do for the climate. 8 more years of not addressing the problems, 8 years of telling polluters to "cut it out!".
Anyway, thanks for letting me vent.
So are several of my close friends :(
... and we're still friends. C99 doesn't force loyalty pledges... and I'm not even sure on this site we're supposed to be promoting Bernie on as much as we do. (But, hey, it feels good to have some place to do it.)
And now I've seriously need to turn off this machine and go to sleep! G'night, y'all.
"Intelligence is the ability to adapt to change." Stephen Hawking
NEW: http://www.twitter.com/trueblueinwdc
Machines have no heart
I'd prefer a human over a machine.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
I do too
I just have no faith anymore.
President Trump scares the fucking hell out of me. So does President Kasich.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
But maybe they need to win
before the clueless electorate finally wakes up. It won't be pretty, but it's looking more and more like that's what it's going to take.
That said, I still think that splitting the country up is the more sustainable solution. Let's face it, a sizable part of the country doesn't want to live in a more forward-looking society. They want to outlaw abortion, arm everyone with guns, make prayer mandatory, teach creationism, make unions illegal, use women as breeding machines, bring back the good old days with lynching of brown people (and deport the rest). That's not the country I want to live in, so why not give them the opportunity to live in that regressive paradise? Who are we to stand in their way? It feels almost cruel.
And if we were living in 2116?
I can't wait that long. I wish I could, but I can't.
This is the one and only life that I have, so I will bitch and scream and vote. I don't want to re-fight Choice - been there, done that, have the fucking scars. I don't want to refight science - we even have a movie about it. Science won. I don't want to refight immigration - my ancestors might have a thing to say. In Native American.
I guess I'm so fucking sick and tired of all this. I've buried countless women who scratched and clawed and yelled for my right to write this.
So yes, I voted for Hillary. I think she has a better chance at something. But I want Bernie and his supporters to yell and fight and make a difference.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
This can't happen....
... unless we actually elect Bernie Sanders. Hillary saying "Ooh, ooh, ooh, me too, me too, me too!" for every plan Bernie puts forth isn't worth the breath she expends on plagiarizing his speeches. She will not be accomplishing any of Bernie's proposals. Go back and listen to or watch to her very earliest speeches (on YouTube) before she or her staff started plagiarizing Bernie's speeches when they saw him getting record-setting overflow crowds who cheered him wildly within a week or so of his announcement that he is running for president. Those are the ones that have her "real" proposals - more warmongering, protecting the status quo, etc.
If Hillary is elected, this Bernie supporter (me) will give up on the US as having too many hopelessly stupid people (the types who voted for Dumbya both times) to deserve a president who has morals and ethics and tells us the truth, none of which we would get if Hillary were president. Continuing the morass of Rethug direct or indirect rule and obstructionism for another four to eight years might give people a hint that we do, in fact, need a radical change from what we have.
I'm 70 years old, a grandmother, and a new great-grandmother. I don't want my new gr-grandson to go off to fight more wars of choice against little criminal gangs in 20 years, all for the sake of corporate profits, the military-industrial-mercenary corporations, or Wall Street gains. I'll die sometime in the next 30 years (my goal of living to age 100 is rather unrealistic, given my health issues), and before I do, I'd love to see my granddaughter and gr-grandson be on a government-run not-for-profit single-payer health insurance like the three Scandinavian countries have (which will cover clinic, hospital, and prescription drugs - plus optical & dental services which are not now covered by Medicare), a Medicare for ALL program, and for education to be free from pre-K through college. [Other countries have some of the same benefits that the three Scandinavian countries do, but I know more about those three and their paid parental leave program for both parents is about the same in all three countries: +/- a year, jobs guaranteed when they return to work. They also have great childcare for working parents.]
Those are NOT unrealistic goals Bernie has proposed, contrary to what the naysayers in Moronic Media have said. Countries that have social democracies regularly make the top ten lists for best countries to live in, happiest people, most contented people. It happened again recently:
Giving all our tax dollars to the corporations that have infiltrated our government by hook or by crook (or laws written by them and passed by Cretinous Congress Critters who receive huge "contributions," aka bribes, from those same businesses), not to mention the military-industrial-mercenary corporations, is just not to the benefit of We the People.
To make any headway on getting us back on the road to being a country that obeys its constitution again, we must FIRST kick ALL the corporations OUT of government....
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
And after you've watched Hillary, watch Rosario
Dawson- you'll need to
"When the powerless are shut out of the media, we will make the media irrelevant" ~Anonymous~
Rosario is very impressive...
I had not heard her speak before, but you can tell she is much more than a celebrity...she is an activist. This is worth watching.
Oooooooh...! She's good! Speaking extemporaneously, even!
I wonder if she would consider changing occupations and run for office?
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
That is what impressed me the most...
it was from the heart.
I think she has a better chance of something
Like large fines and possible...um...confinement.
A couple of quick points. First, PLEASE stick around here!
I know you expected pushback and I don't think it's been too bad, but anyway, don't let it discourage you. Speaking only for myself obviously, I wish there were more rational Clinton supporters here. Echo chambers are boring.
And... As I noted repeatedly back when I was visible at TOP, the electability argument has always seemed like the most persuasive reason to support Clinton. The notion that nothing matters as much as stopping the Thugs (to me, Cruz is far scarier than Trump) is cogent and reasonable, although I don't fully agree with it. The problem is, I don't buy the assumption that Clinton IS more electable than Sanders. I think people--not necessarily you, but certainly many of her most strident supporters--just won't--or maybe can't--recognize how widely and deeply unpopular Clinton really is. I'm afraid she'll be a machine indeed: a GOTV machine for the GOP.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
Echoechoechoechoecho
Right on Phil. Political Echo chamber blogs are boring and die. TOP got successful and YUGE because people want to debate. Start banning users for supporting Shillary the criminal or debating with us and watch comments die off. Don't go down evil screaming king Markos the bafoons road and block accounts!
Do you have to be...
ya know......... so accurate?
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
The problem with a machine,
is that that machine which we will get with Hillary is working AGAINST us. Not for us. When Bernie talks about a political revolution (I think) what he is talking about is US becoming the new machine.
Think about what Hillary's machine has gotten her/us so far:
minimal number of primary debates
poorly timed primary debates
Debbie Wasserman Schultz
email server in her own home
war
more war
a firewall keeping us from ever getting single payer healthcare
TPP is nearly a done deal
Be careful what you ask for.
Thanks for this
I may be naive, but I don't think it will be that bad.
But, I am a non-pledged delegate, so I still have a decision to make;
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Hi again themis
I had to reply to this post because I have a rule about being respectful to people I don't know. You never know who they might actually be. God on the bus, Christ among us, a non-pledged delegate!
Mom always said you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar, though I never understood why I'd want to catch flies.
So, with mother in mind, I'd like to suggest that you set up a post office box. I'm sure there are others here, who like myself, would love to send you flowers, chocolates, some small present to attempt to lift you from any hopelessness and despair, if for only a brief moment. Can't send money of course because that just wouldn't be right, with you being a non-pledged delegate and all..
Naïve or not, I agree with you in that a Hillary presidency may not be any worse than Bill's two terms or Obama's two terms. Yet, I can't help but think that with Bernie we have a chance for something much better than the status quo. With Bernie we will get maximum efforts to combat man made climate change. With Hillary I believe that her concerns over the finances of her fossil fuel donors will stifle meaningful efforts to address climate change.
This is something that I believe people miss about the young people who support Bernie. One of their main reasons to support Bernie is because they strongly wish to have a livable world to live in. That seems reasonable to me.
Quite honestly themis, do you think Hillary would be better for our planet environmentally, better than Bernie?
The kids you teach, they are our future (yes that can seem scary at times lol). They have to live with the mess we've left them. I think we owe our children a chance. A chance at education, a chance against a rigged system, a chance to live on a healthy planet, rather than one dying due to our inaction.
Bernie is the best chance for them, the kids, and for us all. Bernie can win against any repubathug they throw up against him.
Please think back at what motivated you to fight the good fight all these years, look at what you've fought for. Bernie has been there with you all along, fighting for those very things you've fought for.
It's still far from November, there is still time for reflection. Pragmatic incrementalism that seems to be taking two steps back for every step forward or real change with real hope.
I sure would love for you to be proud of your vote rather than to loathe your vote.
Please re-consider Bernie before November. I hope you'll join us in voting for Bernie.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
Now you have me
singing Pink Floyd in my head.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
If President Clinton does not scare
The fucking hell out of you,
It should.
I would like to know what those
vaguely progressive things are.
I'm a lifelong Okie democrat. I see the republican party moving to support Hillary because they
can't stand Trump, and don't like Bernie at all.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Big Tents and all that
Mom, is that you?
I'm a displaced Okie - born and raised and educated there. I worked for Penny Williams:) I licked envelopes for the ERA (I was a child - drooling was all I could contribute.)
Anyhoo.. I don't know. I want the world most of you are fighting for, but I don't think we're there yet.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
I know
But I "came clean' in my Howdy diary, and people asked. So I thought about it and said it here.
Not my best writing. But even after the elections, I would love to continue the conversations.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
"Not my best writing..."
That's for certain. The original post was content free, and most of your responses have been as well. Not certain why you are bothering to post or comment, but I could speculate. And will resist temptation.
You are basically making
the Bernie can't win argument. Self-fulfilling prophecy. You seal your own fate.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Carter sealed my fate
I'm not doing that.
Bernie wins the argument, Hillary wins the war?
and I hate that metaphor
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
You will believe what you want
Carter was a million years ago. You might as well blame Thomas Jefferson. You can deny all you want. You're a defeatist. You can't win. Bernie can't win. Knock yourself out. It is a free country for the next 20 minutes or u til Hillpill gets elected.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Well you got one thing right
Hillary = war.
Now
you are doing nothing but trying to antagonize. Seeking attention?
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
some responses to this essay and its comments
dkmich:
Actually, I think our essayist is telling us that heretofore, this is what (s)he has been led to believe, and is questioning it now. I certainly hope this is the case.
Questioning such assumptions is a good thing. And that essayist is willing to do so in public and under the pressure-cooker of fear of President Trump and President Kasich is a very good thing indeed. Our essayist is telling us that (s)he is willing to not live in thrall of those who are selling the "Bernie can't win" argument for personal gain and power. Again, a very good thing.
themis:
I would recommend you look into some of the essays/diaries here devoted to the subject of just how Bernie can win the nomination, such as this one. Then ask yourself if you really want the kinds of things Ms. Clinton would actually be able to "get done", such as endless wars and worker-screwing free trade "deals". Questioning assumptions is always a good idea.
I respectfully submit that if you want Bernie, you need to vote for Bernie. Hillary won't get you there -- at all.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
You're right and I'm wrong
But I'm still right:)
If Bernie wins, I'm the happiest woman on the planet. But I don't trust the movement.
I teach a class of about 110 students. We had class election day and I asked who voted... of the 60 BERNIE students, 4 raised their hand.
Change is slow.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Did you aske them WHY....
they didn't vote? Were they old enough to? Did they have to work?
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
I'm curious how many
of your students were pro-Clinton and of
those how many voted.
Low voter turn-out in many (most?) of the
Democratic primaries has been a troubling
trend.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
Were the polls closed yet when your class met?
A lot of people vote end of the day. Sounds like your question was literally who has voted already. You may have missed the hands of those who were headed to vote after class. I hope you didn't convince them it wasn't worth showing up. Maybe you teach night school so it was after 7 or 8 and your polls were closed already...
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Thank you
I always question everything - it makes me a great professor and a horrid date:)
I'm a rather old fart, and I remember Watergate (pissed because Nixon wasn't my cartoons). I also remember Carter talking about climate change. I remember Regan talking about WAR WAR WAR. I remember Clinton saying that science had to profitable.
I hate who we are now. I fought those fights and I lost. I lived those fights and I lost. If you can find my fight again, do it.
Please?
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
I don't know what you teach
but I'd probably drop the class.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Author states she teaches education to "fucking freshmen"
Thanks for your honesty.
I think you are as welcome here as anyone else. We may disagree on our choices in the primaries, but I bet there are many issues on which we have common ground.
This is a more free place than DKos. Many opinions.
Let a thousand flowers bloom.
Let a thousand schools of thought contend.
Take care.
Thanks
I am grateful. I remember when that other place was a refuge for Dems. I'm here now.
My primary is already done - I guess I'm just saying hi again (they asked)
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
Mine also, although I'm still donating.
Voted for Bernie in Missouri. Hillary won the primary by about 1000 votes. Very close.
And I get to
Do my thing for Bernie on Saturday, YAHOO!! Moved to Maui from California recently thusly moving my ability to support Senator Sanders up by 2 months, SWEET
Just pitched in $100 for Bernie
Wasn't close in Ohio, but the voice is necessary.
The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.
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