Why Hillary

Hi Guys,

I know I'm new here. I have many things to explain, much to apologize for, and to justify my existence... I know.

I will start with many thanks for the warm welcome I've received here. You all are amazing.

OK - here we go... Why I voted for Hillary...

I know change is slow - slower then we want it to be. I grew up as a Dem in Oklahoma - I'm used to losing elections. I also know that change is slow. The movement behind Bernie is amazing. I want that to be the change.

But I also know that change is fucking slow. We've seen how process kills progressive ideas. Congress sucks.

I voted for Hillary because I want to see a machine behind something vaguely resembling progressive.

This isn't my best writing - I'm not sure this is my best thinking... but here it is

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themis's picture

and I early voted before the HIV snafoo... damn that was awful

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The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

RantingRooster's picture

where your coming from. Not to be snarky, but I am working on empathy for Hillary and her supporters, even though honestly, her supporters I can live with, many of us have had sisters and brothers we've fought like cats and dogs with, but remembered in the end we're family, but Hillary would be a YUGE pill to swallow, at least in my perspective.

I'm lucky, I voted in my primary, Texas, for Senator Sanders. Right now, for me anyway, the delegate math might be a snowballs chance in hell, for the moment, ultimately as of this point, we still have the convention and the voluptuous lady hasn't begun to vocalize yet. So for me, the convention isn't over, this race isn't over. We just might pull off a miracle, god lord knows we need one that's for sure.

Now, also something I'm not banking on, I'm not outright dismissing it either. The shit storm that is Libya (in the e-mails), as well as the FBI investigation about the e-mails and whats in them, the donations by foreign governments and the state department approvals of record weapons sales to said same contributors to her foundation. These three "unknowns" can blow up at any moment, and side line Hillary in a heart beat and would make Bernie our presidential nominee, unless the "party" goes full blown republican and tries to upend the nomination and broker the convention or some batshit crazy rule changes or something. I'm not banking on it, but it is out there slowly gathering steam.

I can't vote for someone that supports the death penalty, nor that doesn't recognize Palestinians as humans. The lack of support of healthcare and education as a human right turns me off as well. I won't pound you with a bunch of reasons why I do not like her, at all. I do apologize if I have crossed a line in my comment here, I admit I'm not a wordsmith.
Peace!

Welcome to the warm, blue ocean! Come on in the water is fine!

(However I might recommend one not saying "reality based community" (anytime or anywhere), some of us might go into convulsions as our heads explode! lol / snark)

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

themis's picture

I actually agree with you... except for the Texas thing:) My OU degree forbids me to say nice things about you guys. You're just so damn orange:)

In all honestly, you're right. You've said everything I agree with. All of it. I loathe my vote for Hillary. I loathe why I voted for her. I loathe living in a world where my vote is rational. But here we are...

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The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

we Bernie supporters are irrational?

You aren't making much sense, themus.

Can you tell me why you are voting for Hillary, without the insults?

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'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "

PennBrian's picture

I'm new here also but I'm very glad you decided to join because this honest discussion among people rather than partisans is very constructive. Best to you!

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RantingRooster's picture

LOL, To me, it's bread and circuses.

What can we do, well..

From the gowl (great orange waste land)
We can take back the party.

There are 191 people running (state and federal offices) supporting Bernie's platform.

From the Warm Blue Ocean there's this great Essay by TomPfromdailykos.

It's not the end of the world, not yet, if Hillary some how gets elected. We the people, the movement can just protest that much more, with TWO national figures (Warren / Sanders) using their political megaphones egging us on!

Never give up, Never surrender!

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

themis's picture

I learn.

I've lost my religion... I don't know what it means to be left anymore. I did what I did, I stand by it, and people keep wanting me to be covered in dogs...

I will admit that I am a college student parents' worst nightmare - a leftie liberal who uses Trump as a test question (as a joke, not as a psych concept).

Ah... I need beer and dogs:)

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The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

themis's picture

From one newbie to another, welcome.

I don't know where you are or where you're from, but the day that Kasich is the 'sane one' is the day I'm thinking New Zealand is a good for my cats:)

Welcome to my poorly written diary

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The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

Yes, that's an attempt at humor. Hope you smiled not growled. I was shooting for a smile.

A lot could happen before November. You may still be able to cast your vote proudly.

Change happens slowly, until it happens fast. History is replete with examples of societal and political change happening very rapidly.
It's easy to understand why one would lose their faith and hope. Seems we're meant to, no? The system grinds us down. Long commutes for barely 'get by pay' wears on one, yes? Seems we haven't had hope since FDR, and then hope was all we had. But that hope bore fruit.
Our hope can bear fruit again and truly it must, for we are in dire times.

I'd love to vote for the first woman president. I wish there was a woman with a chance of winning running, that I could vote for. One thing that's troubled me is, so we get a woman president, who is impeached on day one. Who is disliked and not trusted by wide segments of the public. I'm concerned about the precedent set. I'm sure we can do better for first woman president.

In any case, you're right 'here we are...'. We can give up and give in or we can keep fighting.
Please don't give up yet, there is still hope for a better future.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

themis's picture

irredeemable Smile And yes, I smiled (and audibly giggled - cats are pissy now)

I guess I want small things that require huge changes. To quote 'West Wing' I want schools to be cathedrals. I want my college freshmen to teach me things. I want my education majors to earn a damn living.

I guess I'm old, tired and done... for now. November might be a different themis:)

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The only thing harder than speaking truth to power is speaking truth to stupid.

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

This Race Far From Over: New Poll Shows Sanders and Clinton Tied Nationally

'In the end, Hillary Clinton has a trust problem,' says pollster

by Deirdre Fulton, staff writer
Published on Thursday, March 24, 2016
by Common Dreams

Signaling that the primary race is far from over, a new national poll shows Bernie Sanders tied with Hillary Clinton among those who have voted or plan to vote in a Democratic contest this year.

The Bloomberg Politics survey found 49 percent of respondents preferred Sanders, while 48 percent backed Clinton.

Bloomberg reports: "By a more than 2-to-1 ratio, Democratic primary voters say Sanders would fight harder than Clinton for the middle class and do the most to rein in the power of Wall Street. Nearly six in 10 say the Vermont senator cares the most about people like them, and 64 percent see him as the most honest and trustworthy candidate. Just a quarter of voters said that of Clinton."

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pfiore8's picture

first, welcome.

now, to the sig line: if we can only deconstruct this: speaking truth to power or to stupid . . . the point is this: they either don't care or don't get it. and yet we think this is a strategy to pursue. I read it all the time: let's speak truth to power. we oughtn't be wasting our fucking time. or energy or creativity to bring enlightenment to those stuck in a system ruled in the dark.

so how does this relate to Hillary? she is completely entrenched in the system, believes in it, will defend it to the death of this planet. and she really believes the massive mess in which we find ourselves can only be solved by the very system that has created it.

so vote for her. fine. by there isn't more than a hair's breath of difference between her and any rethug that gets elected. in fact, the last eight years have been a disaster. we have been led to believe that this mess has been caused by an obstructionist Congress. i beg to disagree: it's a ruse because the really important stuff they don't tell you about: agreement on war, expanding arms sales, opening up more of the earth for energy extraction, more privatization... i could go on.

the only way to possibly (and by no means is this a sure thing) to mitigate this mess is to begin governing outside of the existing Dem / Rethug / Corporate / Military system. We need accountability, to bring back the draft (and make service mandatory to stop the privatization of the military, one of the most dangerous things really ramped up under Bill Clinton, and expanded under both Bush and OBama). We need to figure out how to work locally, network with groups like #BLM, Occupy, First Nations, the stop fracking and stop TPP groups . . . to exert muscle and force it up. As well, we must find ways to help local businesses flourish (and truly beat back this global economy), reinstate anti trust, and yeah, while we are at it, the rule of law.

Bernie Sanders is remarkable. Not for his last 40 years, but for these last few months . . . this campaign, seeing the issues, seeing peoples' response to sanity . . . he isn't the same guy who started this almost a year ago. he could be the George Washington of our time (flawed but great none-the-less). we can't bring light to Hillary, but we can all shine light on the corrupted system and force the vampires into the open.

well, that's my view from the cheap seats.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Bollox Ref's picture

Seems an odd method to get to Bernie's world.

But, hey, good luck.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Shigeru's picture

being a great risk to our nation. It is a sign of our national cowardice that we will pay mercenaries upwards of half a mil a year, but refuse to serve ourselves in the 'wars of choice' we create. It s my view only (I think) that largely because WJC is both morally and physically afraid to put his life on the line, that he opted for an easy option to warfare. That the use of these escalated under Bush is likewise explainable. The increase under Obama is likely due to his complete lack of understanding about the military, rather than the Clinton/Bush issues. What had previously been a duty and an honor to perform became anathema and something that the elites washed their hands of. At least in terms of doing the real work, that is, military service.

The dangers of this are multi-fold, but include items that I might go into in an essay, but the list should suffice for now. These include loss of control, lack of discipline, conflict between mercenary corporate goals and national goals, compromise of national security, selling of services to the highest bidder, and financial theft. This list is not complete by any means. A good summary of some of the issues is in the following link.

https://theintercept.com/2016/03/24/blackwater-founder-erik-prince-under...

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pfiore8's picture

all those holding the to "change should be incremental" line : I say BULLSHIT.

boiled_frogs_col.jpg

the military isn't even on the radar . . . and when you wait for change to come dropping slowly from actions of psychopaths, well . . . watch out.

#feelthebern

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

mjsmeme's picture

she is "something vaguely resembling progressive". Its so vague it looks like Republican light to me.

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Lookout's picture

Hi themis,

You gotta do what you think is best. I disagree with you, but I gotta do whats right for me. Do you reach for the gold ring or play the catcher in the rye? I think you /we have to reach for the gold ring.

As presidential candidate Bernie Sanders says, "I believe that if you start your campaign and run on a platform calling for a full loaf, at worst you’re gonna get a half loaf. If you start your campaign talking about a need for a half loaf, you’re going to get crumbs. And the American people today do not want, do not need crumbs. They need the whole loaf."

Welcome to the site where civil conversations and diversity of thoughts are encouraged.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Nothing vaguely resembling a progressive. She's to the right of President Obama. She's to the right of Trump on a lot of important issues. Hillary claims to be a "progressive" because she has contempt for her own voters and thinks they will believe anything.

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

angel d's picture

But this is one of the lamest rationales I've seen yet to vote for the corrupt, unindicted oligarch.

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Well said AS ALWAYS angel d. Magnificent. Shillary is a lying scumbag corrupt criminal that belongs in cell block h next to GW.

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darkmatter's picture

It's the most passive passive-aggressiveness I've ever seen. "I hate myself, I loathe myself, I can't stand what I've done, although I want what you want completely I've given up, oh woe is me, and...oh yeah I voted for Hillary." Just give me a break.

Nietzsche once said, "he who despises himself nevertheless respects himself as one who despises."

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hester's picture

This is a nice place. Hope you like it. I read your diary 3 times and honestly still have no idea why you voted for Hillary.
Perhaps it's as you said here:

I voted for Hillary because I want to see a machine behind something vaguely resembling progressive.

A machine. It's not even vaguely progressive. It's an oxymoron.

SMH

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Don't believe everything you think.

will never, ever, support broad progressive policy. Never. Ever.

The best you'll get is dribs and drabs, and the price you'll pay is exactly what we've been paying for decades.

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thrownstone's picture

I can't help wonder why you would come here (or anywhere) with that story. Just doesn't feel right to me. You have gotten lots of comments, lots of sympathy and understanding...but so what? I don't feel any movement in your position: My guess is that you will do it again. The love of the machine is impossible to break once you accept the implant. This essay feels like a trolling mission to me.

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“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire

Alison Wunderland's picture

Plunder good will, pillage constituencies, and take no prisoners. All the while the Bux keep piling up.

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SnappleBC's picture

I have to say that I disagree with this part.

But I also know that change is fucking slow. We've seen how process kills progressive ideas. Congress sucks.

It is not some inherent internal feature of some mysterious and unnamed process which kills progressive ideas. It is a corrupt government backed by corporate money and doing the bidding of the wealthy elite which does so. That isn't really a matter of debate any more in a reality based discussion. That's what needs to change in order to get any of your "progressive" ideas implemented. In essence, you voted for the oligarchy which is your right. But that vote lies at odds with your stated goal of progressive ideas.

This, more than anything, is the job of people like me. To somehow convince people like you that the US is an oligarchy and we are ruled by plutocrats. Gilens & Page say that's true. Noam Chomsky says it's true. Jimmy Carter says it's true. And just plain common sense says it's true. Something like 82% of all voters want Citizen's United repealed. Ask yourself why it isn't repealed when such a massive preponderance of voters want it done. There's a wide variety of other issues just like that.... issues which have more than 65% support and more than 50% support across both parties yet they are not implemented. You don't need to do the actual math Gilens & Page did in order to see the results of it writ large.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Cassiodorus's picture

Who likes Cruz or Kasich, anyway. EWWWWWWW! They tell the TRUTH about who they are. TOTALLY GRODY!

And Trump. Is he a serious candidate? We'll probably get his WWE buds in the cabinet. Vince McMahon as Secretary of State, Dwayne Johnson as Press Secretary and so on. His campaign orations are probably about as meaningless as yours or mine.

Sanders? You might actually get something from a Sanders administration. Sounds better than an early suicide to me. I'm voting for him.

Clinton, otoh, will give us austerity and a lot of war and make us like it! We'll pretend it's progressive incrementalism, and what could be kewler than that?

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The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

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