Article V Convention

I just got an email from Common Cause stating that we are only six states away from calling for an Article V convention to amend the US Constitution. Scott Walker former governor of Wisconsin and the American Legislative Exchange Counsil (ALEC) are behind this.

You remember ALEC, the source of boilerplate legislation used by state and federal lawmakers to write laws in favor of the 1%. Funded by the Kochs, it has been busy solidifying GOP power while Dems routinely fell on their fainting couches, clutching pearls and doing jack sh!t.

Well, it looks like the coup de grace to our vision of democracy will be this Article V convention, where the GOP, aided and abetted by the ineffectual Dems, will finally get their dream constitution. I have been aware of these machinations for some time, and have opposed a constitutional convention. I have seen how weak the Dems are when they are in power and right now they have little power in many states as well as in Congress. SCOTUS is now a tool of the 1% and rules against the people more often than not.

I hope C99ers will see this ploy for what it is and speak (write) against it. Common Cause has been on the people’s side throughout its existence and I am glad they are raising the alarm on this issue. I fear if this convention comes to pass, we will all be be living in Winston Smith’s world.

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k9disc's picture

aboard.

"It's the only way to beat Drumpf!"

And I say that tongue in cheek, because while I've written about how I think Establishment Democrats are angling for an Article V as the Washington Generals in this fake game we're watching, I've not really believed the hype.

I expect the Establishment D support, either outright, or via obviously terrible electoral choices being foisted on us by the SuperDelegates in overtime.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

ggersh's picture

@k9disc

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trump will be amerika's last president

There is no way in the American political system to vote against the interests of GS, JPM, Citi, ATT, AMZN, MSFT, WM, Alphabet, FB, APPL, Exxon Mobil, Lockheed Martin, UHG or Northrop Grumman.

@ggersh both parties now.

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5 users have voted.
thanatokephaloides's picture

I just got an email from Common Cause stating that we are only six states away from calling for an Article V convention to amend the US Constitution.

We've been in that unfortunate position for the better part of a century. I remember concerns about this from my childhood (I'm now 61).

Also, it is my understanding that there are States which have joined this call only to rescind the call later.

The worst threat here is something near and dear to fascists of all flavors: a Constitutional requirement that the Federal Budget be balanced. This is impossible under a fiat money system such as almost all modern nations have, including the USA. No national debt == no money supply. Why the f anyone would opt for that is beyond me.

Bottom line: be vigilant, but don't panic. Do what you can to get your State to rescind if it has called.

And Cat help us all!

Smile

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides Bills of credit, which are authorized in the Constitution (Lincoln's greenbacks) would finally be used as our currency. Many early founders, like Thomas Jefferson, thought the biggest failure of the Constitution was that it allowed the government to have debt.

I can't believe the banks would ever permit us to amend the Constitution in this way. They are the primary beneficiaries of the government's ability to borrow. Banks can't issue bills of credit which are essentially tax credits.

It is unfortunate that it is the libertarians who figured this out (several decades ago) and not progressives. Progressives still by the BS that our money supply has to be based on debt.

Only states, who are barred in the Constituion from issuing bills of credit, need to borrow.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

@davidgmillsatty

Wrong. It is time to end the myth that all money is debt.

It's no myth, which is why it won't end. Bills of credit are debt. That's one reason States are prohibited from trafficking in them.

Bills of credit, which are authorized in the Constitution (Lincoln's greenbacks) would finally be used as our currency. Many early founders, like Thomas Jefferson, thought the biggest failure of the Constitution was that it allowed the government to have debt.

And Jefferson was correct, as "bills of credit" are debt, in and of themselves. If you issue a bill of credit, you owe the face value of that bill to whoever holds it. No other act of borrowing is required. The mere act of issuing such an instrument is sufficient.

Again, it's why States aren't allowed to do it. And private-sector use of such circulating debt instruments has all but disappeared as well; when was the last time that bearer bonds were a major thing?

I am reminded of a funny story about the Rothschild banking family in England. The men in this family would, in fact, issue bearer bills of credit to each other! One day someone tried to cash such a bill at the Bank of England in London. The refusal of the Bank to honor the bill triggered a flow of men over the next few days, demanding gold for British currency. One of the Rothschilds finally sent a message to the Bank: "As long as the Bank of England doubts Rothschild bills, we Rothschilds will doubt the Bank of England's bills!" Again, this was in a much earlier time, when the lines between uber-richers and their companies were non-existent and bearer bonds were a bigger thing than they are today, i.e. late 19th Century.)

Also: I agree with you that our money doesn't have to be debt; but as things are now, that is the way things are. And I will admit the cryptocurrency experiment, the only truly debt-free money ever created, has had some interesting results; but it's still not ready for prime time.

And the Rothschild who sent the message may have used the term "notes", now that I think of it.

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"I say enough! If Israel wants to be the only superpower in the Middle East then they can put their own asses on the line and do it themselves. I want to continue to eat."
-- snoopydawg

@thanatokephaloides Is a gold coin debt? No it is not. And bills of credit operate the same as coins. They are not debt instruments. A bill of credit cancels debt just like a gold coin would do. If the federal government decided to do it, it could issue enough bills of credit to cancel all of its debt tomorrow. And the bills of credit would circulate throughout the economy and people would use them to cancel their debts. If you are the holder of bills of credit, and you have a debt to someone, or a state government, or the federal government, you can cancel that debt with a bill of credit equal to your debt.

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@thanatokephaloides But I hope to eventually grok the chapter titled "Money" in Decline of the West. Spengler says that Western money is credit, and I haven't seen anything to convince me otherwise.

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@tle A lot of people, even many experts, don't seem to know the difference between debt and credit money systems. Many use the terms interchangeably. But the difference is simple. If your money can pay off debt, without being debt, then it is credit money not debt money.

Debts can be paid off two ways: with other debt, or debts can be paid off with credit. And people need to learn the difference.

Coins are the traditional way to pay off debt without using another debt to pay it off. For example, if you look at a coin, there is no debtor involved in its creation. There is nothing on a coin that indicates it was created as a debt. If you look at a coin there is nobody who owes anyone. You can't conjure up a debtor in your mind when you look at a coin. Bills of credit are the paper equivalent of coins; they pay off debt without creating more debt. Coins and bills of credit are the credit money system. We still have coins in circulation, so we still have a credit money system in operation right now, but coins are a very small amount of the money in circulation.

Conversely, if you use a federal reserve note to pay off your debt, then you are paying off debt with another debt (the Federal Reserve is the debtor of a Federal Reserve note). Whomever you just paid, the Federal Reserve now owes him/her the debt instead of you. Federal Reserve notes are debt money and debt money comprise nearly all of the money supply.

But Federal Reserve notes do not have to be the majority of our money supply; the government could pay off these notes with bills of credit and in so doing would convert our money from a debt based money system to a credit based money system. Literally overnight by "fiat" or government order. But banks would hate that. This fight between the banks and the government as to which kind of money system we have, has been going on since before we became a nation. Up until 1913, much of our money supply was still in coinage. Bills of credit had been in circulation after the civil war for about twenty years. Bills of credit were a huge part (perhaps 1/4 of it) of our money supply at the end of the civil war. Now there are no bills of credit in circulation and very little coinage.

But these two money systems are vastly different and both are in existence right now. But there is a huge push by banks to get rid of coinage as money and now you know why.

Coins and bills of credit are exclusively "sovereign" money. There is no such thing as Federal reserve coin like a penny, nickle, dime or quarter. Banks are prohibited from issuing them.

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ggersh's picture

@thanatokephaloides @thanatokephaloides Balanced Budget, all taxes taken in given
to the MIC = balanced budget wouldn't be outta
of the question.

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4 users have voted.

trump will be amerika's last president

There is no way in the American political system to vote against the interests of GS, JPM, Citi, ATT, AMZN, MSFT, WM, Alphabet, FB, APPL, Exxon Mobil, Lockheed Martin, UHG or Northrop Grumman.

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

Don't put all our eggs in the single, horribly frayed basket of averting a Constitutional Convention. Make a contingency so that if there IS a Constitutional Convention, WE can be the ones revising the Constitution and not the Kochs. Have some imagination, people!

Seriously, why has nobody even tried to just outright kill those two yet...?

Failing that, consider: If a new Constitutional Convention DOES go through, especially if it's rigged by and for the Mammonites from beginning to end, then that means a true end to the country we live in and the establishment of a new one...and why should we then obey its laws or recognize its reality in any way shape or form if we, the governed, do not consent?

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In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

@The Liberal Moonbat If changing the entire Constitution is on the table, then the Bill of Rights are at risk as are all the other amendments. Do we get to keep some and lose some? Of course all three branches of government could change immensely. The rights of states could also change immensely. States could decrease in number or expand in number. Etc. It is mind boggling what could happen. Every time this had been suggested, in the end, the realization of all the uncertainties of what could happen, has caused the Convention idea to fail. It wasn't even useful to prevent a civil war.

So I am not going to get too excited about this. We haven't been able to make a significant amendment to the Constitution in my lifetime (69 years). You need the same number of states for an amendment as you do for a convention, If I recall correctly.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@davidgmillsatty The smart investor prepares for ALL possible futures. We can't just let the bad guys keep all the space for change to themselves. The fact that so many things could change is potentially just as good as it is bad. We're being made into the conservatives by this - which is FUBAR. I'm sick of being a liberal, yet forced to play rearguard (and these days it's gotten even worse what with the galloping NewTruth) - and many others are at least as sick of it.

One thing 2016 proved (as if it were still necessary) is that people are ready to support change for its own sake. We are bilious with outrage-fatigue. Keep in mind that my generation knows nothing but toxic politics - we have been collectively raped, robbed, betrayed, and royally gypped, and a certain someone has even caused the word "hope" to leave a bitter tang in our mouths that wasn't there before...and that's to say nothing of the ever-rising number of voters who can't even remember a world before Dubya.

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In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

TheOtherMaven's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

The first one was HER husband, the Presidump from Hope, Arkansas. We didn't learn our lesson that time, so we got Mr. No Hope and No Change.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Big Al's picture

because we sure don't live in a democracy and unless something major is done to our political system which is mandated by the Constitution, we never will. I'm more leery of common cause and the democratic party than I am of an Article V convention. In fact, I say bring it on. This country needs a major shakeup. I've heard these arguments for years from democrats on Daily Kos and it seems like someone is trying hard to keep things the way they are, which is not going to cut it. Common cause is nothing more than an appendage of the democratic party.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@Big Al

vision of one based on our current constitution. Even that would be lost if the Kochs and ALEC have their way. As someone mentioned above, our Bill of Rights could be consigned to the trash heap. Of course now it is honored more in the breach than in the observance, but it does still exist on paper. A fine distinction, I know, but it’s all we have for now.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

snoopydawg's picture

@Lily O Lady

David Koch has kicked the bucket, but sadly Charles is still alive and they both have spawns that will further their visions of screwing everyone not in their class.

Of course people think that the Kochs just work with fellow swamp creatures from the GOP side of the debates, but let's not forget that they helped fund the DLC during the Clinton's horrible tenure. Equal opportunity swamp creatures.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Lily O Lady's picture

@snoopydawg

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

Constitution, ostensibly to remedy this problem or that. When I would point out things like even the Equal Rights Amendment didn't pass, some of them would default to a Constitutional convention, seemingly oblivious to what a dangerous idea that was. And I'm talking about people who, for the most part, want the same things that I want.

I've taken a lot of flak, just trying to make people face reality. https://caucus99percent.com/content/lets-amend-constitution

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8 users have voted.

Minted .999 pure silver one troy ounce rounds are still legal tender. When the paper is shredded for the benefit of the oligarchy, trading coins will still work.
And there is similar trading value in minted gold and platinum.
(For the richer folks).
Trade in your green backs while there is still some value.

Somehow, I doubt the elite behind changing the constitution are going to give us peons much power to shape the wording and intent. Expensive lobbyists and lawyers have probably already drafted the language. Like the Patriot act. Foregone conclusion.

Just waiting for a disaster to formulate the process.

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May we be united and strong -- laurel

We, the People of the United States of America, reject the U.S. Supreme Court's Citizens United ruling and other related cases, and move to amend our Constitution to firmly establish that money is not speech, and that human beings, not corporations, are persons entitled to constitutional rights.

Check out the source: https://movetoamend.org/ Remember that? Back in the good old days?

This convention might be our opportunity, if we can seize control of the conversation and the movement. If we make the toppling of corporate rule the overriding goal, and advertise that goal to the hilt, we could generate massive support for the necessary amendments that would put this shaky nation back where our founders wanted it to be: a genuinely democratic republic -- an agreed-upon government run by the people.

We have a lot going for us. Many conservative sites have grown jaundiced toward corporate power; their opposition to government control has broadened to include capitalism's big winners: the corporate oligarchy. What they want is self-determination and freedom to decide their own destinies. What we want is a government responsive to the will of all the people. They don't have what they want, and we don't have what we want. We all know this: elections and voting aren't doing it and won't, until we firm up some basic, fundamental rules.

I think we could be at an ideal time to do this -- if we can keep the oligarchy from controlling the process and if we can use our available means of communication to connect with real people. The oligarchy will resist, and they do have an advantage in media monopoly (thanks to Clinton via the 1996 Telecom Act), but we've gotten a good start on independent media thanks to the Internet -- which we will need to protect.

I think this could be very promising if we use it correctly. There are numerous avenues we can pursue in making it happen. I've only scraped the surface here.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@laurel

victory many times before. I doubt a case such as this would be any different.

After the Sandy Hook, Americans thought that surely such a tragedy would lead to sane gun laws, but our brave legislators told us that there wasn’t the “political will” necessary to pass such legislation. We’ve seen this kabuki play over and over again. I am not as trusting as you, laurel. I’ve seen too much.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

@Lily O Lady @Lily O Lady @Lily O Lady . This is not "the Dems" at war with the Repubs, and if we do this, it would not be conducted by Congress. This would be a special convention, and it is indeed riskier and more unpredictable than regular channels. But, short of revolution, it may be our best chance of throwing the real enemy -- the 1% oligarchic, imperialist, (imo) totalitarian Deep State -- out of the body politic. One way or another, it has to be done.

This smart young woman, Lanie Petersen, describes what's up with the Dems here (and mentions an infamous KOS character, to boot):

Personal note: I love Nina Turner. Love her. Please don't anybody mess with Nina.❤

Here is the Caitlin Johnstone article cited by Ms. Petersen. It's a good read, loaded with interesting links: https://caitlinjohnstone.com/2019/08/22/establishment-dems-are-openly-bu...

(edited to fill in an omitted word and clarify a confusing sentence)

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Big Al's picture

@laurel Agree with your position on this. As we've talked about many times on here, we the people have more in common than we're made to believe by our divided and conquer political system and corporate media. It's time for a reset in this country and as you say, elections are not going to do it.

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@Big Al , but if we set our minds to it, we could make it happen. We would need to formulate and spread the idea itself, stimulate progressive movers and shakers to get it rolling and give it shape, reach out to "the other side" so that they can see how much they, too, need this, and always keep an eye out for the corporate oligarchy and its minions who would attempt to co-opt it for themselves. A tall order, but worth a serious try.

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wendy davis's picture

and this time for real. i guess in 1918 jane mayer had erred by reporting the same, but:

'David Koch, conservative donor and philanthropist, has died at age 79',
Emily Tillett, cbs news, August 23, 2019

now maybe i just missed it given the crowded front page, but alec exposed doesn't seem to have the article V convention news.

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Lily O Lady's picture

@wendy davis @wendy davis

described as a “trove” regarding ALEC. It’s now a page not found. There are also an unrelated video from several years ago from my local NBC affiliate, 11Alive, about a meeting with Georgia legislators crafting laws behind closed doors for the benefit of special interests. I was still at GOS at the time. I might have written a diary about it. I did go on Facebook and commend the reporter for outing these crooks.

My point is that ALEC and Koch Industries are playing the long game. It has worked out much better for them than for us. I don’t think complacency will do us any good.

Edit: I meant to say that I found the information at ALEC Exposed, which you cited.

Of course, since I got the information in email form, it could have been for the purposes of fundraising. I get a lot of those from many sources.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

wendy davis's picture

@Lily O Lady

and do you believe that 'if the rumors of his death haven't been greatly exaggerated' (h/t mark twain), david koch in the ground or on a funeral pyre will make a difference to the calls for an article V convention? or will another koch-ish zombie simply take his place?

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Lily O Lady's picture

@wendy davis

have children, but the Koch empire was founded by their father Fred. I imagine the Koch perfidy will continue with other family members.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

wendy davis's picture

@Lily O Lady

exactly correct, guess will see whose brainchild the convention is/was. i'm sure koch family news will be coming out post-haste now.

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