Only leftists can be terrorists
"What's antifa? Antifa's blowing up cities. Antifa is attacking people."
- RUSH LIMBAUGH
Senator Ted Cruz wants to protect you from terrorism.
Last week, Republican Sens. Bill Cassidy of Louisiana and Ted Cruz of Texas introduced a resolution to designate "antifa," which the Anti-Defamation League defines as "a loose collection of groups, networks, and individuals who believe in active, aggressive opposition to far right-wing movements," as a "domestic terrorist organization."In fact, antifa is a constellation of many different activist groupings, with no official leader or clear hierarchy. As the New York Times has noted, its membership count is "impossible to know." That didn't stop the two Republican senators from claiming that “Antifa are terrorists, violent masked bullies who ‘fight fascism’ with actual fascism, protected by Liberal privilege."
Cruz also wants the FBI to open a RICO investigation into antifa. However, FBI Director Christopher Wray said the "FBI views antifa as more of an ideology and noted the bureau does not investigate ideology".
That isn't 100% true (see Red Scare), but it is true enough.
The FBI reported a 17% jump in hate crimes in 2017, and the Anti-Defamation League’s Center on Extremism found that domestic extremists took the lives of at least 50 people in 2018, up from 37 the previous year.
So there is indeed an increase in extremist killings in America.
However, there is just one thing missing from this story.
The far right accounted for 73% of extremist murders in the U.S. between 2009 and 2018, according to the ADL data, compared to 23% by Islamic extremists.
...
“Right-wing extremists have been one of the largest and most consistent sources of domestic terror incidents in the United States for many years; they have murdered hundreds of people in this country over the last ten years alone,” the ADL stated. “To date, there have not been any known Antifa-related murders.”
Yeh. Antifa is a "threat" in the similar way immigrants on the border are a "threat".
For example, look at what happened when By Any Means Necessary decided to protest a neo-Nazi group.
Federal authorities ran a surveillance operation on By Any Means Necessary (Bamn), spying on the leftist group’s movements in an inquiry that came after one of Bamn’s members was stabbed at the white supremacist rally, according to documents obtained by the Guardian. The FBI’s Bamn files reveal:The FBI investigated Bamn for potential “conspiracy” against the “rights” of the “Ku Klux Klan” and white supremacists.
The FBI considered the KKK as victims and the leftist protesters as potential terror threats, and downplayed the threats of the Klan, writing: “The KKK consisted of members that some perceived to be supportive of a white supremacist agenda.”
The FBI’s monitoring included in-person surveillance, and the agency cited Bamn’s advocacy against “rape and sexual assault” and “police brutality” as evidence in the terrorism inquiry.
...
The report ignored “100 years of Klan terrorism that has killed thousands of Americans and continues using violence right up to the present day”, German said. “This description of the KKK should be an embarrassment to FBI leadership.”
It should be an embarrassment to the FBI, but it isn't.
Let's get back to Ted Cruz and his “antifa panic”.
as Jessica Kwong points out in Newsweek, the resolution refers interchangeably to “antifa,” those “affiliated with Antifa,” and “left wing activists.”
That should give you an idea of what this is actually about.
This is about shutting down left-wing activism.
“Somebody’s got to carry the water for the fascists, and Ted Cruz seems to have found his place.”
- Cooper Brinson
Comments
Smarmy cruz
is the definition of white privilege.
He's just trying to protect his own.
Thanks gjohn.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
GIve me a break.
Are you serious that you have never seen the masked cowards of antifa on the attack?
There have been plenty of news clips demonstrating their violence and destruction.
Violence by masked people is now left-wing activism?
Regardless of who you think might commit more acts of violence, it is stunning to see a defense of any violence, political or not, here on C99.
(oh, and I'm not using the snowflakes' definition of violence- they think anything that merely offends someone is violent, I'm talking about bloodied noses, hospitalizations, property damage, etc)
dfarrah
Pictures show KKK in masks. From inception until today.
Maybe it is an historical "thing".
The Grand Wizard of the KKK lives about 35 miles from me.
I have litigated a child custody case where Mom had her baby in KKK garb, flaming crosses in the picture, for some Baptismal rite, and my client, the father, won custody.
Actions have consequences.
Stupid Mom was unmasked.
Keep it up, right winger. Keep it up.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
So what is your point?
My point is that the masked are cowardly, no matter who they are.
It seems you just assumed that I had no idea that masks had been used in the past. Well, I am aware of masked usage in the past.
dfarrah
@dfarrah How is anfa worse
How is anfa worse than lynchers?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
This Question Is Not Germane, Is It?
Seems to me that this question is not germane to the topic.
It also seems to me that this is entirely the dividing lines that are drawn with Antifa. This organization is not organic, and is designed to turn politics violent.
Remember the Punch a Nazi thing? It's still a thing, I'm sure. Lots of good little liberals are all titillated by it when it happens to some RW nutter. But that shit runs both ways, and it's dangerous.
I fear Antifa far more than the KKK, as nobody is going to stand up against them, and if you do happen to stand up against them, you're kind of, by definition, a fascist. At the very least you're a fascist sympathizer.
Another danger with Antifa is the violent response to speech. Young people apparently don't respect free speech. There is a tyranny of the mob situation primed to happen, and nobody is going to stand against it if it is applied towards the KKK and other racists, and that leaves anyone standing up for speech part of the Nazi Fascist crowd... Not a fan.
I find the whole thing interesting though, especially this response that is so clearly intended - it's extremely murky thought for a normally clear headed person. And no offense, , I'm not really talking as if you were not here, but this one was a doozy of an example of my problem with the framing of the essay and the topic in general.
Reminds me of a discussion I got into with Booman23 WAY back in 2004 or so... epic - ass handed to me - on a similar gamed out argument.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
The punch a nazi thing
pretty much epitomizes what I don't like about the antifa groups I've seen.
(And I have a reason for not calling them antifascist groups, in full--because there are antifascists who don't call themselves antifa, nor identify with those who do.)
So, yeah, it's not great to advocate for violence against your fellow citizens, even if they are barbaric racist assholes (and somehow I feel I'm insulting barbarians by calling them that).
But worse, IMO, is the stupidity, nay, the frivolity, of "punching a Nazi." I used to argue with them about this on Twitter.
You don't stop Nazism by punching a Nazi. Somebody, surely somebody, on the left must remember what it actually took to even drive Nazism back for a time. The "punch a Nazi" thing is emblematic of the Twitter brand of left-wing politics: so limited in historical and tactical understanding that I end up hoping it's just abysmal stupidity driving the whole thing, wondering if genuine moral outrage could possibly produce such tactical conclusions, and suspecting that, at best, it's all just a kind of political narcissism, a masturbatory online virtue-signalling. At worst? It would be a Deep State-driven project to define "the left" in a way useful to it, while attempting to get the people of the United States to kill each other more often.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Excellent Comment. I Hear You, For Sure.
I'm leaning towards the Deep State privately funded PsyOps with them. And you grabbed their sour spirit perfectly too... I don't want to associate with them, and they "are me" in the media portrayals.
The basic idea is you carve up the abused Left with this split. The "real Left" has nowhere to go - we're Nazi sympathizers with "our caucus" and we're lumped in with the Antifa crowd. It's not cool, and I feel as if it's by design.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
One more example of a larger strategy, I think.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
If these people were really the anti-fascists they claim to be
ready to use violence in a righteous cause against the worst political philosophy humankind has produced to date, they would understand that punching Nazis and boasting about it on Twitter was not only entirely inadequate, but actually helpful in promoting Nazism in this country. It helps Nazis do what they like best, next to murdering people: portraying themselves as victims of unjust left-wing authoritarianism. That enables them to draw more right-wing people who aren't fascists to their side and gives them as much of a reputation makeover as such a discredited philosophy can have. If you're going to do that, and suffer the not inconsiderable cultural and social consequences (including giving Ted fucking Cruz an opening to posture in this despicable way) your violent actions should actually interfere with the promotion and persistence of Nazism. "Punch a Nazi" does no such thing. It's like a seven-year-old version of violent opposition to fascism. If this is actually genuine and not a Deep State op, these people have no fucking clue what it really means to violently oppose fascism.
If you mean to become a violent opposition to fascism, you must take that commitment seriously and understand what it means, and what it will lead to, what it must lead to, in order to have any measurable impact. If you shrink from that, or from the, shall we say, "down side" of that kind of hardcore politics, then you have no business playing around with it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I AM Willing to Go There, Just Not When There Is a Shot for
a civil resolution - you can read that to mean War or Self Defense.
And when things get to war or self defense there is no coming back. Violence to head off the threat of violence in the future is not my thing. I think it's a VERY dangerous thing. I would view ANYONE advocating that in a functioning society as suspect.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
non desiderabile (not desirable)
I agree. Violent revolution isn't something to be desired; it is something to be feared.
Be very afraid!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Well, you'll notice I'm on here talking about it
not leading armed opposition to it. If I were leading armed opposition to it, I sure as hell wouldn't be talking about the issue on line, or doing anything to draw attention to myself.
Like you, I *do* shrink from the ugliness and, really, depths of horror that open up when one actually contemplates the project of violently opposing fascism--even if you're opposing the less powerful fascists who are being served up to us as a replacement for the fascists actually running the country. In other words, antifa opposes, theoretically, the people at the head of the American Nazi Party, the Klan, and other such organizations, rather than opposing John Brennan or John Bolton. In practice, antifa seems not even to oppose those organizations and the people who run them, but rather to oppose their deluded footsoldiers. I remember people boasting on Twitter that they had successfully identified two men who were at a Nazi rally. Once they were identified, these practitioners of antifa called up their places of employment and got them fired. This was, apparently, a real blow against fascism in this country.
Where did they work? Well, one was a pizza delivery boy, and the other swept floors at a grocery store.
Way to cut off the head of the snake.
As if the people who run those fucking organizations give two shits that a couple of low-wage guys in their movement lose their jobs. Or, strike that, they do care--it's a great recruitment tool.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Have to agree
on cowardly masked antifa. And you never, or rarely, see them arrested for their flagrant violence, nor does one hear of the outcome of any judicial process.
Sounds like a story for an outlet like the dubiously edgy Vice News (it that still exists), but I'm suspicious of them too, and for good reason.
Frankly I've always been suspicious antifa is some FBI-type operation meant to make the Left look bad by its provocateur, extreme nature. Maybe there are some true believers who've been suckered in and are authentic, but this questionable group strikes me as at least 50% a product of the federales.
All that said, those statistics on domestic terrorism also sound about right. It's difficult however to overcome the century-long anti-left institutional bias of intelligence agencies like the FBI, which still sees Dangerous Lefties under every bed. Not much has changed apparently in the 100 yrs since J Hoover Edgar began his reign of anti-lefty terror ...
@dfarrah Masked leftist are
Masked leftist are your problem.
Your concern.
Your fear.
Your righteous anger.
I assumed you absolutely DID know about KKK masks.
What I am asking is why, suddenly, when lefties use them, it is even mentioned?
Let's imagine there are castigated and imprisoned masked cowardly antifas.
What remains?
The no good murdering motherfucker right wing lynchers on the right.
In masks.
Please defend the masked, lynchers, right here right now, and let's see if this site is tolerant of your defense.
If they do, I am in the wrong place.
If they do not, you found yourself a comfortable home to wear a mask.
Edit: to wear a mask added to last sentence.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I Certainly Don't Think the Masked Are Cowardly.
I'm not pissed off about their garb, or their wanting to get away without forensic evidence of their participation in a rally. I'm actually rather sympathetic to that. No problems there.
I do have a problem with the cowardice of group violence. I find it to be a rather grotesque animalistic display of irrational fear outside of immediate life and death situations. YMMV
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Who's your most trusted Left intellectual?
I continue to have the highest regard and love for the duo of Chris Hedges and Cornel West. They occupy some really elevated place to me for many reasons, not the least of which is their penchant for attending and speaking publicly at protests as high profile intellectuals, but also their willingness to get arrested in order to draw more attention to the injustice. You can't find a more potent and admirable pair than these two.
Here's what West had to say about his visit to Charlottesville for that infamous Geek-Goon Fest of White Supremacist Douchebags, which, in seriousness, led to the death of a young Socialist woman:
"Antifa saved our lives. We would have been completely crushed - and I'll never forget that."
Here's the full appearance, and one with a transcript:
In general I'm ambivalent about Antifa. Hedges thinks of them as a pariah against LW philosophy taking hold in the mainstream. Probably he's right; violence generally begets more violence. Even this former RW clown-turned-sort-of-enlightened pundit Peter Beinart understands the difference (some people awaken it seems, anybody check out that Hillary zombie Peter Daou lately on Twitter? He's like full on radical progressive now.) Point is Antifa, at least in principle, have noble intentions. Their Far/Alt Right counterparts absolutely do not.
But credit must be given when it's due. And anybody who stands up to these little white supremacist scumbags is a friend of mine. I would do the same.
Let's face it, the FBI is an autonomous, completely fascist organization within our government, that seems to be subject to no oversight. Their mission hasn't changed at all since its inception as an organization designed to thwart, subjugate, disrupt, infiltrate, entrap and murder the leader of, if necessary, LW socialist movements. Just like the cops they are mostly virulent conservative RW ideologues who are the henchmen of the PTB and exist to preserve the status quo of their masters' shadowy pillaging. Which is why they act the way they do during these protest confrontations, and have all the way back to the Pinkertons and the fascist deputized local business owners who alongside "law enforcement" gunned down striking workers who threatened their obscene profits.
The "Antifa" fear you have is just the latest in a long and predictable line of relentless, coordinated RW media propaganda. They're the most recent entry into a running list that began probably a century ago, which includes "Reds, Communists, Libruls, Hippies, Black Panthers, Anchor Babies, Entitlements," and all the rest that Frank Luntz and his slimy ilk conjure up for Fox & Murdoch's Co's to keep soft, pampered, jingoistic white people riled up and saluting the flag and not paying attention to how they're being fucked over by the 1%.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
This is how I feel too
Hedges is right.
And you are right.
Either way, antifa just isn't all that big and important. It's been blow completely out of proportion.
Have to Drop This Here... Brother West on Rogan...
Those of you who don't do video... might want to throw it on in a background tab and just give it a listen.
I think Joe Rogan is about the best interviewer in the world right now, and Dr. West seems to be quite on point as usual. I'm 15 minutes in and it's pretty epic.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I See Antifa and the KKK as Flip Sides of the Coin.
Their name and their actions have proven that to me.
The KKK is on watchlists, right? Why not their flip?
While I agree that left wingers are far more likely to be labeled terrorists than RWers, I don't think this is necessarily an illustration of that.
First off, Antifa doesn't strike me as a leftie organization - it seems far too astroturf-y and agent provocateur-y for it to be made of Lefties. It seems like a plastic, cookie cutter version of the anti-globalization/enviro crowd designed to be a physical opponent of the "Alt Right". I guess that could be a bit self serving to distance myself from them, but I don't think lefties would be corporate sponsored, and I think Antifa has Establishment hands all over it. No proof, BTW, just vibe from media/social media exposure. Antifa feels forced and fake.
The idea that Antifa seems to want to "battle" with fascists is a real problem, IMO. Battle is even above corporate as an expression of a fascist method of operation - It's the APEX of fascism.
Punch a Nazi is a fascist policy and it is dangerous; Left, Right, or Center - even white people.. Not much getting around it.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I don't wear a mask.
It doesn't take violence to be labeled antifascist. I have been labeled as such just by confronting racism openly.
Tell me who you hate and I'll gladly respond in defense of those you hate. Unless, of course, it's the majority of the government body and officials who perpetuate hate to divide the masses.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Here's your break
I've seen a few, but you obviously missed my point about who is dangerous.
You seem to agree with the FBI.
I didn't think I had to spell this one out.
'the resolution refers interchangeably to “antifa,” those “affiliated with Antifa,” and “left wing activists.”'
You aren't a dummy. Use the grey matter and tell me how "left wing activists" can be interpreted.
I'll give you a hint:
the McCormack–Dickstein Committee (1934–1937) was formed to investigate Nazis.
It eventually became HUAC.
Yeh. 'More acts of violence'.
That's like finding the Palestinian violence the same as the Israeli violence.
@dfarrah Oh BOO FUCKING HOO. A
Oh BOO FUCKING HOO. A few Nazis got punched in the face by some masked individuals. Oh those poor defenseless Nazis. 75 years ago we were killing Nazis. Now people like you are coddling and defending those pieces of excrement.
Get back to me when members of Antifa start burning swastika on the front lawns of Nazis, running them over with their cars or outright killing Nazis. In fact name one Nazi who has been killed by an Antifa member. I'll wait.... In the meantime I'll find 10 or more Nazis who killed someone for every one you find, IF you're capable of finding any cases.
I've been lurking a long ass time here and never really felt the need to respond but this false equivalency BS compelled me to.
please forgive me
Please forgive me, but you'll have to wait your turn. You're behind me in line. I still have a request pending for direct evidence for dfarrah's claim that someone is paying the Latin American immigrants to make the dangerous and often futile journey to our southern borders.
(English Translation: We'll see either of our requests when pigs fly unaided and Hell becomes a source of liquid helium.)
(Apologies for any threadjacking.)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
My kind of people.
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/portland-mayor-shuns-responsibility-antifa
https://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-le...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S33HVduI474
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/X56rQkDgd0qqB7R68t6t7C/seven-t...
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/on-the-commodification-of-street-v...
https://nypost.com/2019/07/17/liberals-cheer-as-antifa-violence-escalates/
dfarrah
So, basically...
...NOBODY is using real words anymore.
It was more than bad enough under George W Bush's thumb...now we're stuck inside his goddamn head.
In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.
Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!
RT had a piece on those antifa “terrorists”.
I recently started watching RT for a few minutes a day, and encountered a piece that was no more nor less than a hit piece on antifa. I wasn’t sure what to make of that. I had previously stopped watching because RT had turned into a Trump fan club. This piece just seemed like more of that.
Please show me
.
As a daily watcher of rt, I find it hard to fathom that they have turned into a fan club.
I do agree that sometimes they promote the illusion that trump is in favor of better relations with the "Communist hell hole".
But fan club?
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
You're probably right.
I have gotten so sick of Trump being injected into every news program, that I turn off anything that shows a video clip of him. I remember watching RT, and very much appreciating the news that I got there, although I kept in mind that, while they reported bad things in the U.S., they never reported on similar news in their own country. But I decided that I was seeing too much of Trump, usually in a positive light, and just stopped watching.
In any case, I thought that antifa hit piece was odd.
Funny,
no mention of masked LEO stormstroopers in any of this thread.
Just saying.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Too cute
And so true.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
also
I've seen the comment that the first person in a leftish group to propose violence is almost always the undercover cop, and the next 2-4 people have a good chance of also being undercover cops. LEOs seem to often enjoy the role of agents provocateur. I suppose it must be tradition.
An old lesson to be relearned
Thinking back to 50 years ago, I distinctly remember the shock of finding that some of our local anti-war "leaders" were actually cops and/or government intelligence people.
I'll make this short... In my early and mid teens, I used to compete in marksmanship competitions. I'm talking NRA sponsored stuff, etc. While I was never worth a damn at it, I did have fun doing it. My hometown was the site of a major state university, which had a Department of Military Science. Think ROTC. In the basement of their building there was a really nice rifle range and we would go there often for competitions.
As I got older, I competeted far less often. Girls and beer-drinking came into vogue for a boy my age. Also, the more I found out about the Viet Nam war, the more anti-war I became, and at some point started meeting with several anti-war groups. I attended demostrations, etc. One day, I decided to head up to the rifle range - the one in the basement of the ROTC building. I hadn't been there for quite some time, and it now took ID to enter. The range area is a little dark, and I stayed off to the edges, not competing. But, I started seeing people I thought I recognized - in fact I did recognize them! I was a bit thrown off, as these people were not dressed as I was used to seeing them. Rather, they were all wearing either military or police uniforms! Around half a dozen of them I knew well ... they were movers-and-shakers in some of the local anti-war groups! I cannot begin to tell you how mind-blowing this was for me.
The fact that our groups were obviously co-opted was not an easy thing to grasp. This was taking place in a small mid-western town, not the place I'd associate with infiltration by government agents. What a wake-up it was! I also put two and two together and realized that the same people I'd spotted in their military and/or police garb were the very ones who were always proposing the most radical, and often violent, courses of action for our groups.
Again, these were part of the leadership of our anti-war groups. Doubtless, there were others among the rest of us.
Not long after the discovery of the agents within our anti-war groups, a friend of mine was sent to prison (probably still there) for burning down a campus building. The guy was framed as far as I could ever tell. I wasn't at the trial, but was told that two of the witnesses against him were two of the people I'd seen in the basement of that ROTC building. I stopped any association with any and all anti-war groups at that point.
No doubt, nothing has changed other than the agents have gotten better at it. Also, the use of social media is probably a large component of infiltration and/or inteligence gathering.
"Burn down the math building? ding, ding, ding, ding..."
Great personal story; thanks for sharing.
Entrapment is very real with these fascists. FBI did some on Occupy too.
Your friend's dilemma reminded of a great story George Carlin tells, about the critical juncture in his career when he decided he could no longer play the Catskills straight-man (and profitable) role because his consciousness had been awakened.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
This piece is way below the standard of thought I had come to
associate with your writing.
Here it seems you have created strawmen (Cruz, KKK,..)to defend the indefensible violence of antifa.
The antifa riots in Berkeley and Portland are part of a divisive force that IDPol uses to split the 99% and empower the R's & the 1%. Whacking peaceful people in the head with bike locks and damaging small businesses does not serve our cause-it damages it.
The day may come for mass protests in the streets, but it needs to be peaceful. Antifa's violence serve to mobilize public sentiment (& police response) against the us. The struggle here should be up v down-not right v left.
We can disagree without being so disagreeable.And yes, Ted Cruz is a horse's rear end, but that doesn't confer any virtue on antifa.
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
I Agree With You Chuck. Not a Fan of This Piece and This Line
of political argument and agitation. You are spot on with the IdPol.
It forces people into one camp or the other. Look at the false binary in here. I think this is the purpose of Antifa.
I'm not suggesting that gj intended it, it's an easy trap to fall into - but I do want to lend support to your thoughts with my own. I feel you.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Maybe I did something wrong in this essay
I wasn't making a defense of antifa, as many people here seemed to understand it.
Personally I don't care much about antifa.
I find them mostly irrelevant, except as a propaganda tool. They don't scare me in the slightest. I don't think Cruz and the right-wing are honestly scared of them either.
I'm actually surprised so many here take them seriously.
The point I was trying to make was the double-standards being used and how it can be so easily turned into a cudgel against the left.
I Don't Think You Did Anything Wrong, Per Se, But I Do Think
you may have inserted the double standard in there due to correlation.
It's just a hard argument to make when the organization is so obviously about hard, violent action (agents provocateur or not) and so vocal and casual about using it.
Now the Eco-Terrorists, Water Protectors, Greenpeace, Wikileaks, Anonymous - you've got a point - and they're all on the radar as "terrorists".
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
I've seen more danger from street gangs
If that was true you would think someone would have been killed by them.
We can agree to disagree. It's OK to do so.
I See Them AS a Street Gang. No Difference, Except for the
underlying stochastic terrorism that's going on.
If the KKK stomps, we'll all stand up against them - it's really a no brainer, right?
But when Antifa stomps the KKK who is going to stand up against it? And does that mean that I'm with the KKK?
I think Antifa is a psyop, and part of a programmed civil disintegration under democratic rule. A slow roll to the benevolent corporate fascism that the Masters of the Universe chat about in Davos and the pages of the Economist.
And of course, you are free to think as you would like as well. Hopefully you can see where I was going with my criticism of Antifa and the framing of them as an attack on leftist.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Dangerous street gangs
Street gangs are about controlling territory and about making profit from their territory. They're capitalists on a small scale. Unlike antifa, they don't generally have a political agenda and they don't travel around the country stirring shit just for the sake of stirring shit.
Reminds me of a quote
But it’s been a long time. Something like: “What bothers us about drug gangs is not that they reject our values but rather that they embody them with a purity that terrifies us.” Adam Smith’s Mistake was the book IIRC.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I didn't read yours
as necessarily endorsing antifa, but I did spot what I considered a glaring omission about antifa's negative occasional footprint. Imo they are a put-together artificial group arranged by the Feebees or local police, maybe working with the feds, designed to discredit the Left.
My dos centavos.
I denounce Pol Pot
My obligatory ritual denunciation.
/s
Obviously antifa's violence is being used for propaganda by the right. I've written about that before many moons ago.
But other than that antifa has no real impact on anything, and giving them more credit than that helps the right-wing propaganda IMHO.
Just my $0.02
Clearly it's a smallish
group, but as expected they get outsized coverage in the media, especially when provoking and escalating confrontations and smashing storefront windows. Just a little bit goes a long way towards smearing the Left.
As for Mr Pot, that was my next question ...
I find it interesting
that not one single person had an opinion about By Any Means Necessary, the neo-Nazi group and the FBI.
Everyone here were so "triggered" by mentioning antifa, that everything else in this essay got overlooked. Including the automatic incorrect assumption that I was defending antifa, and that antifa is somehow dangerous.
Maybe I didn't do something wrong in this essay. Maybe I accidentally touched upon something worth exploring more. I'm curious where other people get their antifa news? I'm betting that this is important.
Neo-nazi?
By Any Means Necessary? Actually, they're a left-wing group. Their full name is The Coalition to Defend Affirmative Action, Integration & Immigrant Rights, and Fight for Equality By Any Means Necessary.
I know
please see the article in the essay above
My bad.
I read it as a defining clause in your comment -- "By Any Means Necessary, the neo-Nazi group" -- rather than as two items in a series.
We Are Bathing in Stochastic Terrorism. I Think Antifa is
dangerous, the same way I think the fascists are dangerous - KKK, Anti-Fed Militias, Industry Groups, and Think Tanks.
Each has it's place in fomenting discord via stochastic terrorism. You've got to have some Establishment cover, you've got to have some organized street toughs for soldiers.
So I don't mind them being investigated largely because of their desire to meet fascists at their own level; fighting fascism with fascism makes us all fascists.
I prefer a less organized response to ultra-minority agitation. A highly organized response creates a market and social targeting behavior. It's a bad path, and I think it's corporate sponsored. Not a good combo. Investigate away.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
Shortening the name
to antifa and changing the pronoucing of it to "anTEEfa" is a dead givaway agent provocateurs are at work. Antifascists are the norm for the "Greatest Generation" who fought them on the battlfield. Who could defend Nazis.
We should all refuse to use the term pushed on us and call them what they are, antifascists.
I see manipulation here.
Am I the only one?
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Words mean things
Back when he first burst upon national radio, Rush Limbaugh often used to make a three-worded statement. He would say, "Words mean things." I thought of this as I read your comment.
Thinking of that, I also have noticed the use and promotion of the term antifa, with the pronunciation as you describe.
Over the years I have read many books whose subject was fascism, what led to it, what it was, those who fought it, etc. One thing I have never seen in these books is the term antifa. Not even once. However, the term anti-fascist is used commonly. I think what we're seeing is control of the narrative, as recently best explained by Caitlin Johnstone, who has covered the topic extensively.
I surmise that when media uses the term antifa, they most definitely do not want you to think of the term anti-fascist. Be assured this is no accident.
On an important
grammatical note: Please folks of America: when using a french phrase, always be careful that the noun and adjective agree both as to gender and number. So, "agents provocateurs".
Otherwise carry on.
Yours &c,
l'Académie Française
D'oh!!
s'il-vous-plaît pardonnez-nous (If that's correct, I claim it. If not, I blame Google Translate.)
On behalf of the
francophones here and the French there suffering through brutally hot weather, I just had to object.
Guys in expensive suits . . .
. . . and women CEOs and CEO-wannabes (and most politicians) almost always prove to be more problematic via the institutional violence they initiate, maintain and perpetuate than antifa folks.
I don't particularly like antifa--
at least not the people I have seen identify themselves as such. We have a tactical disagreement, and possibly a philosophical one.
However, they are not terrorists any more than Copwatch is a hate speech site that Google/YouTube (or as my partners dub it, GooTube) should shut down.
This is all just more authoritarian crap.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
As for By Any Means Necessary
the FBI investigating (and, some might say persecuting) people who question current norms of society and politics is not new. Sounds like more J Edgar Hoover style poisonous bullshit.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Antifa is anti liberal. And
Antifa is anti liberal. And they have no place alongside legit leftists. They consider anyone who is not antifa, to be fascists. They are violent, and nutty, cowardly. No "but the KKK, but the Proud Boys" will suffice, people who enjoy hurting and hating others over political differences should be in jail.
One committed suicide by cop while lighting off cars and attempting to explode a large propane tank at an ICE facility, he was carrying an AR. A bunch of them beat up a small reticent gay Asian guy who has reported on their movement.
Antifa are low life punks.
Where did you hear this?
Honest question. I'm trying to get some info.
@gjohnsit https://www.nytimes
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/13/us/tacoma-detention-center-shooting.html
https://thehill.com/hilltv/rising/454712-conservative-journalist-andy-ng... Andy follows the activities of the Antifa in Portland, and writes about them. Said to be a conservative I've never heard him voice a personal opinion but then I don't follow the issue closely except that I don't like there being a violent group claiming to be of the left. I think it's wrong to hurt others, and violence should be avoided always if possible.
Right wing hate groups like Nazis etc have been around forever and are laughable, not people to be feared.
I think they are simply the black block but in 2019. Anarchists hiding their identities and loving violence. Weird right wing hate groups love them as both groups like fighting each other.