awesome diary on dkos

It got the user who posted it banned, so you know it must be good. If you still have your dkos account check it out and give it the recs it deserves.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2016/03/24/1505552/-Hillary-Clinton-Victim-of-Privilege

As I said in the comments of that diary: I don't even care about Clinton anymore; it's her supporters that are a plague.

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B. Joe King's picture

the diary and your comment.

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Gold is the wealth of kings; silver is the wealth of commoners; barter is the wealth of peasants; and debt is the wealth of slaves.

riverlover's picture

does not go over at TOP. Whoosh! Bojo. Will we get it for reccing? This Is a Test.

I got away with calling the whiners tattletales yesterday when they were asking for the Leader to do a personal ban.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Bulldawg's picture

I've been a Kossak for 12 years. Sad to see what has happened there.

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“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

and Recc'd

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Beyond the title, please. Thanks.

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It points out that if we take the arguments that people like Sady Doyle and the CAPSLOCK EXPLOSION OF FEELING writer make on Clinton's behalf (basically, that because she's a woman she's had to conform to establishment norms about how to Do Politics, so it's sexist to hold things like her vote on the Iraq AUMF against her), we wind up with the portrait of someone who, for no fault of her own, lacks the agency and independence necessary to be a first-rate president.

I wouldn't have called it a hit piece on Clinton so much as a hit piece on the writers who use this kind of argument in support of her candidacy. But the remaining commentariat over there evidently sees it otherwise. Which is perhaps not too surprising, given that a lot of the more talkative Clinton supporters over there seem to hold the CAPSLOCK EXPLOSION kind of analysis in high regard more generally.

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Thumb's picture

A hit piece is anything that isn't openly adulating Hillary. If you're not for her, you're against her.

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"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Bulldawg's picture

That is what Kos is becoming.

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“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

Bluesee's picture

so that those who get in line with Kos' edict can enjoy the benefits of popularity or something.

It's a purity purge with the net effect of transforming the site into more of a DNC-friendly site. And there is a sense of victory and gloating over there, as 60% (!) of the members are feeling a little left out.

It has changed, gradually, over the 12 years I've been there, too. We are now in two camps..

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Bernie is a win-win.

I'd call it an *im*purity purge, as it's the corrupt kicking out the non-corrupt.

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Bulldawg's picture

but downright hostility to Bernie supporters. It's way worse than the Pie fights of 2008. I was "there."

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“Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires.” - John Steinbeck

Bluesee's picture

I remember the PUMA and MyDD days. The so-called HillBots seriously were bad and also in league with each other. I observed, but I didn't dare get into it with them, so unproductive.

Really, I'm here because I try to maintain a sense of objectivity, as I trust and hope others do. When people become ideological, they destroy that.

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Bernie is a win-win.

bodysurfer's picture

It’ll be just like the last time, when the election of Obama ended racism in America. Such is the thinking expressed in Enlow’s identification of Hillary as THE FUCKING PERSON WHO CAN MAKE [IT] POSSIBLE for women to have the option not to play THE GAME.

If she's elected, we can look forward to 4-8 more years of insane obstruction when all the racists switch to sexists.

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All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine. -- Jeff Spicoli

jiordan's picture

as I just refuse to go back there. I'm sure it was an excellent and concise piece...those are the ones that seem to get banned the fastest.

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hester's picture

Maybe message the diarist and ask if he/lshe minds sharing it here. thanks

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Don't believe everything you think.

sojourns's picture

The purpose of this piece is to demonstrate how some apologists for Hillary Clinton have unintentionally undermined her qualification to be president. The thrust of these defenses is to tacitly acknowledge that Hillary’s candidacy does not, in and of itself, merit support, and then to assert that this candidacy cannot be properly judged on its face, but must be in effect graded on a curve that takes social gender bias into account.

DEFENDING THE INDEFENSIBLE

As Courtney Enlow puts it in her All Caps Explosion of Feeling

“A WOMAN DOESN'T GET THE FUCKING OPTION *NOT* TO PLAY THE GAME. NOT NOW. NOT YET. WE ALL WISH THINGS WERE DIFFERENT BUT THEY DON'T BECOME DIFFERENT WHILE WE'RE ATTACKING THE FUCKING PERSON WHO CAN MAKE THAT POSSIBLE.”

Because of gender inequality, Hillary hasn’t had the option not to get rich off Wall Street, or something. Frankly, I don’t see how to present this argument separated from the emotionally charged way it’s framed. I doubt the author, even, could demonstrate how Hillary had to, for example, PLAY THE GAME and vote to invade Iraq because she’s a woman.

I don’t believe that women don’t get the option not to play for a couple reasons:

First, we have what seem to me pretty clear examples of women in politics not playing THE GAME as Clinton does. Elizabeth Warren is certainly the most famous example, but I’d add to that congresswoman Marcy Kaptur from Ohio, whose speeches in the House during the financial crisis of 2008 were brilliantly powerful and certainly won her no friends in the Establishment. I’d add Tulsi Gabbard to that list, who resigned from her high office at the DNC to support Bernie Sanders.

Second, the power structure is coercive to all who participate in it, regardless of gender. Not playing THE GAME always comes at a penalty relative to the Establishment. There is no gender exemption card.

But putting aside what a strange and specious assertion it is, let’s go along with the premise that no woman even gets the option not to play THE GAME, and as Hillary is a woman, she must have been coerced by structural pressures into living the life she’s lived and making the political decisions she’s made.

In her Tumblr piece picked up by Slate.com, Sady Doyle presents a similar lens for properly viewing Hillary, spelling out in greater detail just how not responsible HRC is:

“Hillary Clinton is the impossible woman. The pressures she lives under, every moment of her life, are all-encompassing. She doesn’t have an inch of leeway, a single safe option; there is no version of Hillary Clinton that won’t be attacked. So the version of Hillary Clinton we get—this conflicted, conflict-inspiring candidate, the woman who has a genius-level recall of global politics but has to assure the world she’ll spend her presidency picking out flowers and china, the lady who books a guest spot on Broad City but can’t pronounce “Beyoncé,” the woman who was decades ahead of the curve on women’s rights but somehow thinks it’s a good idea to throw in a Bush-esque 9/11 reference at a debate—is the inevitable product of these pressures.”

Before getting to the substance of this paragraph, I want to point out the way the author’s description of “conflicted, conflict-inspiring” Clinton doesn’t contain any of the truly conflict-inspiring issues. Rather than mentioning trade deals, speaking fees and the invasion of Iraq, Doyle offers a list of items ranging from completely trivial to of minor importance at best. No one worth listening to seriously cares about Hillary’s pronunciation of “Beyoncé.” Similarly, the idea that Clinton “has to assure the world she’ll spend her presidency picking out flowers and china” grossly inflates a single trivial moment in one debate. In a paragraph that pretends to explain why Hillary is so conflicted the author doesn’t mention a single serious conflict.

But, again, let’s put aside the problems with the case and accept the premise. As with Enlow’s ALL CAPS Hillary, Doyle’s Hillary is free of responsibility for her own character: “the version of Hillary Clinton we get … is the inevitable product of these pressures,” with “these pressures” being widespread sexist criticisms over her appearance, age, emotional affect, tone of voice and the like.

Hillary would never make such arguments in her own defense. She would never say she was the inevitable product of external pressures. But, what if these apologists for Hillary are right? What if she’s so circumscribed by “all-encompassing” pressure that she’s driven to such lapses of judgment as throwing “in a Bush-esque 9/11 reference at a debate”? And let’s not stop at relatively trivial, if cringe-worthy, lapses in judgment. Let’s extend this reasoning as far as is necessary to deal with actual opposition to Hillary and say it was the all-encompassing pressures on her as a woman that caused Hillary to vote to invade Iraq, and all the rest. What if we accept that through 40 years of professional life Hillary has learned that, as a woman, she “DOESN'T GET THE FUCKING OPTION *NOT* TO PLAY THE GAME”?

Doesn’t this absence and distortion of agency severely diminish her as a candidate for president, given that independent agency is exactly the quality called for by the office? Moral agency is the essential qualification. By turning her into a victim of gender bias, Hillary’s apologists have explained away the disturbing parts of her record at the cost of undermining the fundamental character requirement of the office she’s running for.

CHRYSALIS OF FREEDOM

Perhaps the idea is that once Hillary gets elected to the presidency, she’ll finally have broken through the last barrier of oppression, the glass ceiling that had trapped her within THE GAME. Like a butterfly emerging from her chrysalis, Hill will suddenly fly free, the empowered moral agent we could only dream of all these years of watching her. Even better, the example Hillary provides, publicly resolving her own contradictions on the world’s biggest stage will spark a revolution in gender relations, as all those people who’ve pegged Clinton as just another politician who campaigns with one face and governs with another will have to bow before her unparalleled example of patience, fortitude and essential goodness. Vast numbers of people will suddenly realize that what we were seeing wasn’t the mote in Hillary’s eye, but the beam in our own. It’ll be our patriarchal society’s come to Jesus moment, with hundreds of millions struck into ecstasy on the metaphorical road to Damascus. Hillary’s liberation from THE GAME will be our own.

It’ll be just like the last time, when the election of Obama ended racism in America. Such is the thinking expressed in Enlow’s identification of Hillary as THE FUCKING PERSON WHO CAN MAKE [IT] POSSIBLE for women to have the option not to play THE GAME.

JESUS H CHRIST

I’m struck as I write this how Christian this thinking is, in that it mirrors exactly the structure of the old religious idea that we humans gained liberation from death by Jesus’ triumph over it. Jesus beat THE GAME and in doing so opened up THE FUCKING OPTION for the rest of us to live lives of authentic moral agency, lives not distorted by slavish submission to worldly powers.

I’m not going to criticize this as magical thinking, which it is. I think there’s some psychic validity to magical thinking; and even if the election of Hillary will no more end sexism than the election of Barack ended racism, it’d be a step on the path.

Instead, I’ll point out that the presidency isn’t outside THE GAME, but is instead just another role within it. The idea, then, that if elected Hillary can finally stop playing THE GAME is fatally flawed. Even if Hillary wanted to resolve her contradictions (and it bears remembering that she has repeatedly denied their existence), even if she wanted to step up to full, conscience-oriented, agency (and she has repeatedly asserted that she’s already there) as President, Hillary will be subjected to all the same pressures she is now, only more so. The “inevitable product” rule will still be in effect. The Hillary we see now, conflicted and conflict-inspiring, will be the Hillary we get.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

sojourns's picture

Conspiracy Twit

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

It's a good write-up. Enlow is totally off-base (and apparently, off-kilter.)

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Pat K California's picture

And if I get banned for it, twill be no skin off of my nose ...

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"Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.

shitty site.

love your avatar Smile

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TheOtherMaven's picture

doesn't go over well there either. I'm sure a lot of people screamed "Blasphemy!" (Funny, well not really, how they're so opposed to "Sharia Law" but want to impose the exact same thing with only the labels changed.)

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Tea Baggers in mind set. That's the one that kills me - how can you excoriate a Repugnant but excuse a ConservaDem? When you simply ignore things like logic and fact, by God it can be done.

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

mouselander's picture

You better watch out,
You better decide;
You're rooting for Hill,
Or you're taking a ride.
Ban 'em Kos is coming to town.

He's making a list,
Of those who defy;
He's gonna sort out,
Who's going bye-bye.
Ban 'em Kos is coming to town.

He knows when you're Hill-bashing,
He knows when you troll-rate;
He knows if you're a Bernie-bot,
So conform for Groupthink's sake!

Ohhhh.....
You better watch out,
You better decide;
You're rooting for Hill,
Or you're taking a ride.
Ban 'em Kos is coming to town!

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inactive account

ChemBob's picture

n/t

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RantingRooster's picture

n/t

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C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

vtcc73's picture

anyone?

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

to see that the author got banned over that diary. There seemed to be little to no comprehension of the point s/he was making in the comments. Obama was extremely careful not to bring identity politics into the mix when he was running for office as he knew that it would be destructive to his campaign. It's disgusting to see Clinton supporters making these sorts of arguments.

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who was the author that got banned?

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CS in AZ's picture

who just joined DKos on Feb. 2 of this year and had not posted any diaries or comments until today. They were immediately banned for this one post. Unreal.

DKos seems determined to become a sealed echo chamber of Hillary hagiography. I can't hear the phrase "reality based community" anymore without laughing.

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vtcc73's picture

4 minutes from publish to the first calls fo banning and 25 from publish to confirmation of banning. Author got one response so I suspect it was almost an insta-bojo. OHHH echo chamber, they so loves you....

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"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

sojourns's picture

That was a great diary. Those with the hillarian pox are squirming. Flag away! Do your worst! I can always be a sock puppet if actual need be.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

travelerxxx's picture

While I still have maintained an account as DK, I hardly go there now - especially since the blatant assaults on Sanders supporters via banning, etc. In fact, I don't think I've left a comment there at all in the last few weeks. To me, the place feels as though someone has a loaded, cocked pistol aimed at my head the second I log in. It's pretty sad when one is viciously attacked for simply highlighting Mrs. Clinton's history. That those attacks seem now to be sanctioned by the owner of the site tells me volumes.

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Funny kind of cross-pollination going on. I found out about this site from DK, and am now alerted to good diaries there from here.

To me, the place feels as though someone has a loaded, cocked pistol aimed at my head the second I log in.

Probably not much solace when they miss and shoot themselves in the foot.

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ChemBob's picture

and it should not have been bannable had Kos or his minions the intellectual capacity to comprehend it. Intellect is in short supply over there and increasing daily here.

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they tried both back in january, right around iowa & nh, but when neither of those worked they switched to "bernie should get out of the race for the good of the party" which was equally unsuccessful b/c most of bernie's supporters don't give a rat's ass about the dp--& then they went with the "stop giving money to bernie, give it to other down ballot candidates" to try to stop his phenomenal fundraising success that allows him to campaign non-stop while hillary is always having to drag her sorry ass off the trail to event after event, but that failed, too--so, now they're revealing just how desperate they really are to end this as soon as possible before the convention coronation by reverting to their previous line of attack.

is it wrong that i'm smiling? Wink

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Those two articles are an embarrassment to me or any woman who stands by her own decisions. Real feminists gave up victimhood 45 years ago by just not accepting second place in society any longer. Hillary is not a victim of gender bias. Hillary is a victim of her own mistakes. She owns them.

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but damn, this is totally ban worthy! And no wonder, with a paragraph that hits this fucking hard: "Doesn’t this absence and distortion of agency severely diminish her as a candidate for president, given that independent agency is exactly the quality called for by the office? Moral agency is the essential qualification. By turning her into a victim of gender bias, Hillary’s apologists have explained away the disturbing parts of her record at the cost of undermining the fundamental character requirement of the office she’s running for." Excellent work!

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Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur