Immigrant children being sent to Gitmo?

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 1:49am

“the Defense Department awarded a $23 million dollar contract to construct a “Contingency Mass Migration Complex” at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Station”

I’ve Been to Guantanamo. It’s No Place for Kids. | American Civil Liberties Union https://t.co/49HXjkAQvY

— (@JeffBfish) June 30, 2019

I’ve Been to Guantanamo. It’s No Place for Kids

Over the last year, the country has been shocked by reports of the inhumane treatment of children and families in immigrant detention. Now, the Trump administration appears to be increasing the scope and severity of its immigrant detention scheme by potentially detaining immigrants at Guantanamo Bay.

News broke last week that the Defense Department awarded a $23 million dollar contract to construct a “Contingency Mass Migration Complex” at the Guantanamo Bay Naval Station with capacity to detain 13,000 people and built to last “a minimum of 50 years.” In April, we also learned that the Department of Homeland Security considered sending migrant children to an old “dormitory facility” at Guantanamo.

I’ve been to Guantanamo. I visited in 2015 as an observer of the military commission proceedings, staying in a dusty tent barrack for a week. With a stunning landscape and ugly history, it is full of contradictions—like selling Mickey Mouse-Guantanamo Bay souvenirs in the gift shop, mere miles from where men have languished in detention without fair trials, or even charges, for more than a decade. I left with a pit in my stomach, unsettled by this deeply strange place. It has been a site of torture, where our country’s leaders have long embraced or tolerated injustice. It is certainly no place for children.

No child should grow up in jail, no matter where it is located. Studies show that kids in immigration detention suffer emotionally and physically, with traumatizing conditions including “sleep[ing] on cement floors,” “insufficient foods and water,” and “extremely cold temperatures.”

But sending kids to Guantanamo is uniquely dangerous. It’s easy to imagine the Defense Department restricting or totally denying journalists, lawyers, and human rights groups access to monitor or investigate, enabling officials to commits abuses with little risk of being discovered. Members of Congress, who’ve already been refused access to visit detention facilities on the mainland, may have little or no ability to conduct effective oversight at Guantanamo. Kids sent to Guantanamo might be put in expedited removal proceedings (deported without the opportunity see a judge) that we’ve explained “invite, and guarantee, error.” The Trump administration might argue they have no rights at Guantanamo at all.

Bottom line: there’s a serious risk the government could deny immigrants sent to Guantanamo a real opportunity to seek protection from return to persecution or torture—contradicting Congress’ intent, and their rights under US and international law.

Guantanamo’s longer history helps explain why. In the 1990s, the U.S. Coast Guard intercepted tens of thousands of people from Haiti and Cuba fleeing violence and human rights violations at sea. More than 45,000 people were taken to Guantanamo and held in tent cities. In a striking parallel to today, hundreds of children were separated from their families, kept in inhumane conditions, and authorities had trouble keeping track of people in family units. Thousands of Haitian nationals were returned to Haiti despite having credible fears of persecution, forcing parents to leave their children behind.

By 1995 there were still more than 200 unaccompanied kids from Haiti languishing at Guantanamo, despite having relatives and other sponsors in the U.S. ready to welcome them. “The kids are isolated and fearful,” columnist Bob Herbert wrote. “They live in tents that tend to leak when it rains. They are ill-clothed (some do not even have shoes) and receive inadequate medical attention. Many of the youngsters are depressed and some have attempted suicide.”

Will this be enough to get the people who are supporting Trump's locking up immigrants to finally admit how absolutely heinous it is? Would they feel the same way if those children were white and American? Children are being treated as pawns in this debate. No child should ever spend one minute behind bars and separated from their parents. The children are going to be marked for life because of this.

Immigrants showed up to their court hearings 98% of the time so there is no reason to hold them in detention centers except for letting the private prison companies make obscene profits. And they are. Is that why the democrats gave Trump $330 million with no restrictions to build more centers? The private prison companies are huge donors to both parties and we know that nothing gets in the way of what the donors want. Private detention centers receive $775 a day to hold immigrants and yet they want us to believe that they don't have enough money to buy soap, toothpaste, toothbrushes and other sanitary products? Seriously? Or feed people decent food and not frozen burritos and other non nutritious food? How can congress justify spending billions to lock people up when they are preaching austerity? How did they find the billions on top of the other billions they have already allocated?

People have international rights to seek asylum and what this country is doing is breaking both international and US law by not allowing people to do that. Even holding them in Mexico or sending them back there is unconstitutional.

I will not stay silent

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Comments

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:21am

Thank You, snoopydawg, for posting this essay /nt

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:29am

Please clarify

Did you mean private detention centers receive $775 PER detainee or something else? At any rate, separating children (preteens and younger) is certainly deleterious--but then so is most of our criminal injustice system.

Submitted by mimi on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:42am

ditto, snoopydawg, I was wondering about that

@Alligator Ed @snoopydawg
number too, when reading it. It seems too high for being per detaining one child üer day and too low for detaining all of them at once, if it is per day, not saying here that they should get ANY money at all. How many children do they contain at once?

Free the children, and imho, a child is a child til it becomes 14. I always wonder why seventeen years old teenager or young adults are counted as children. I mean all of it is awful, just want to know the legislation that defines a child in the US vs European countries.
I guess I should do the research myself. Arggghhhh.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:39pm

At the tent city camps it is $775 per child per day

@Alligator Ed

Trump admin's 'tent cities' cost more than keeping migrant kids with parents

Separating migrant kids from their parents will cost the administration more than placing them in permanent structures or keeping them with their parents.

The cost of holding migrant children who have been separated from their parents in newly created "tent cities" is $775 per person per night, according to an official at the Department of Health and Human Services — far higher than the cost of keeping children with their parents in detention centers or holding them in more permanent buildings.

The reason for the high cost, the official and several former officials told NBC News, is that the sudden urgency to bring in security, air conditioning, medical workers and other government contractors far surpasses the cost for structures that are routinely staffed.

It costs $256 per person per night to hold children in permanent HHS facilities like Casa Padre in Brownsville, Texas. And keeping children with their parents in detention centers like the one run by U.S. Customs and Immigration Enforcement in Dilley, Texas cost $298 per resident per night, according to an agency estimate when it awarded the contract for the facility in 2014.

At those prices, the additional cost to operate a 400-bed temporary structure for one month at capacity would be more than $5 million. The average stay for separated kids is nearly two months.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:52pm

Another Security State Boondoggle.

@snoopydawg

Declare a phony security emergency, let private contractors charge 3x to 'service' it, then blame the high cost on the victims being abused for profit.

Nice work if you can con enough suckers into buying it.

—

The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 6:24am

Cuba should retake and close Gitmo.

They'd be well within their rights to do so.

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:06pm

Homestead Florida detention center

Tulsi Gabbard was one of the debate participants who visited the Homestead detention center which is run by a for profit corporation. The Homestead detention center is the largest in the nation. This is probably where AE got the figure of $775 per day that it costs to house each child.

On Friday I watched a video put out by Tulsi's campaign on her visit. A number of activists were interviewed in that video and they painted a far different picture than that which has been painted by the federal government and CBS News which was given permission to go inside and film a propaganda segment. I will not link the CBS video, but it can be found on line by Googling Homestead Florida detention center.

Here is the video of the Tulsi Gabbard campaign of her visit. Tulsi did go inside, but there was no follow up video that I have been able to find. Still, interviews with activists were very enlightening. Niko House interviews one at the end of the video.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2sU7PgELQA]

I have since looked for other articles on the Homestead detention center and this one from NPR echoes a lot of what the activists were saying in the Tulsi video. The issue with Homestead is two fold for me. First it is being run by a for profit corporation which is why it is so expensive in the per day cost per child. The second issue is that no one is actually overseeing what if going on inside. Based upon reports by activists, the children are treated more like prisoners than like children. There are very strict rules they must abide by and these rules amount to a form of psychological torture.

Several days after the tour, a group of attorneys agrees to sit down and describe their interviews with two dozen of the migrant children. They have been granted access to these shelters by a federal judge to oversee the welfare of unaccompanied kids in federal custody.

We see a very different picture than the reporters see.

Leecia Welch, National Center for Youth Law

"We see a very different picture," says Leecia Welch, senior director of legal advocacy and child welfare at the National Center for Youth Law. "We see extremely traumatized children, some of whom sit across from us and can't stop crying over what they're experiencing."

She continues, "We hear stories of children who are told from the first day of their orientation that under no circumstances can they touch another child in the facility, even their own sibling, even friends who they're saying goodbye to after many months of shared intense experience. They can't hug them goodbye. If they do, they're told they will be written up and it could affect their immigration case."

Welch concludes, "We see a very different picture than the reporters see."

Even HuffPost has covered the Homestead detention center with similar stories being told by child advocates who interviewed some of the children in the facility.

Dr. Yenys Castillo, a clinical psychologist who has interviewed children at Homestead, said children in these environments have elevated stress hormones that can lead to mental and physical health problems. She spoke with children whose friends had begun self-harming, and said she worries about kids becoming suicidal.

“They are not allowed to be children and it’s developmentally inappropriate,” she said. “This is one of the most traumatized populations I’ve ever worked with.”

One lawyer said her team interviewed a child who had attempted suicide and been hospitalized three times.

On a personal note, when I was involved with Occupy Tallahassee, one of the projects Occupy Tallahassee took on was lobbying the legislature to do away with private prisons in Florida. It is disgusting that any corporation or human being is allowed to profit from the misery of another human being. These children are being held in prison like conditions and are being psychologically traumatized.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:43pm

Thank you for this addition, gulfgal

@gulfgal98

It's abhorrent what Tulsi witnessed at the camp and you can hear that in her voice.

"This is not a democrat or republican issue but a humanity issue"

Tulsi Gabbard was one of the debate participants who visited the Homestead detention center which is run by a for profit corporation. The Homestead detention center is the largest in the nation. This is probably where AE got the figure of $775 per day that it costs to house each child. On Friday I watched a video put out by Tulsi's campaign on her visit. A number of activists were interviewed in that video and they painted a far different picture than that which has been painted by the federal government and CBS News which was given permission to go inside and film a propaganda segment. I will not link the CBS video, but it can be found on line by Googling Homestead Florida detention center. Here is the video of the Tulsi Gabbard campaign of her visit. Tulsi did go inside, but there was no follow up video that I have been able to find. Still, interviews with activists were very enlightening. Niko House interviews one at the end of the video. [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2sU7PgELQA] I have since looked for other articles on the Homestead detention center and this one from NPR echoes a lot of what the activists were saying in the Tulsi video. The issue with Homestead is two fold for me. First it is being run by a for profit corporation which is why it is so expensive in the per day cost per child. The second issue is that no one is actually overseeing what if going on inside. Based upon reports by activists, the children are treated more like prisoners than like children. There are very strict rules they must abide by and these rules amount to a form of psychological torture. Several days after the tour, a group of attorneys agrees to sit down and describe their interviews with two dozen of the migrant children. They have been granted access to these shelters by a federal judge to oversee the welfare of unaccompanied kids in federal custody. We see a very different picture than the reporters see. Leecia Welch, National Center for Youth Law "We see a very different picture," says Leecia Welch, senior director of legal advocacy and child welfare at the National Center for Youth Law. "We see extremely traumatized children, some of whom sit across from us and can't stop crying over what they're experiencing." She continues, "We hear stories of children who are told from the first day of their orientation that under no circumstances can they touch another child in the facility, even their own sibling, even friends who they're saying goodbye to after many months of shared intense experience. They can't hug them goodbye. If they do, they're told they will be written up and it could affect their immigration case." Welch concludes, "We see a very different picture than the reporters see." Even HuffPost has covered the Homestead detention center with similar stories being told by child advocates who interviewed some of the children in the facility. Dr. Yenys Castillo, a clinical psychologist who has interviewed children at Homestead, said children in these environments have elevated stress hormones that can lead to mental and physical health problems. She spoke with children whose friends had begun self-harming, and said she worries about kids becoming suicidal. “They are not allowed to be children and it’s developmentally inappropriate,” she said. “This is one of the most traumatized populations I’ve ever worked with.” One lawyer said her team interviewed a child who had attempted suicide and been hospitalized three times. On a personal note, when I was involved with Occupy Tallahassee, one of the projects Occupy Tallahassee took on was lobbying the legislature to do away with private prisons in Florida. It is disgusting that any corporation or human being is allowed to profit from the misery of another human being. These children are being held in prison like conditions and are being psychologically traumatized.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by dfarrah on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 10:44pm

Did you miss the part

@snoopydawg of the comment that said Tulsi did not go inside?

—

dfarrah

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 11:03am

Apparently you did

@dfarrah

as I watched the video and saw that she was allowed to enter the center, but without any video of it. Gulgal mentioned that she has not been able to find any follow up material of that part of her visit.

I heard from her tone how upset she was when she heard stories from the people that had been inside and witnessed what was happening.

Are the kids getting schooling there?

Apparently you have missed the multiple times I have said that Trump has cut funding for schooling as well as outdoor activity for kids.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:14pm

So what are the costs for?

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98 Even Medicaid and Medicare don't have that cost per day per person for the nursing/rehab homes (Medicare pays for something like 90 days). And these costs include staffing at all levels, weekly doctor rounds, meds, supplies, food, bathing, toileting, use of mobility machines, etc.

Hmmmm. Wondering what type of bidding they used, if any.

Are the kids getting schooling there?

I'm trying to figure out why kids would cost so much more than the elderly.

Tulsi Gabbard was one of the debate participants who visited the Homestead detention center which is run by a for profit corporation. The Homestead detention center is the largest in the nation. This is probably where AE got the figure of $775 per day that it costs to house each child. On Friday I watched a video put out by Tulsi's campaign on her visit. A number of activists were interviewed in that video and they painted a far different picture than that which has been painted by the federal government and CBS News which was given permission to go inside and film a propaganda segment. I will not link the CBS video, but it can be found on line by Googling Homestead Florida detention center. Here is the video of the Tulsi Gabbard campaign of her visit. Tulsi did go inside, but there was no follow up video that I have been able to find. Still, interviews with activists were very enlightening. Niko House interviews one at the end of the video. [video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2sU7PgELQA] I have since looked for other articles on the Homestead detention center and this one from NPR echoes a lot of what the activists were saying in the Tulsi video. The issue with Homestead is two fold for me. First it is being run by a for profit corporation which is why it is so expensive in the per day cost per child. The second issue is that no one is actually overseeing what if going on inside. Based upon reports by activists, the children are treated more like prisoners than like children. There are very strict rules they must abide by and these rules amount to a form of psychological torture. Several days after the tour, a group of attorneys agrees to sit down and describe their interviews with two dozen of the migrant children. They have been granted access to these shelters by a federal judge to oversee the welfare of unaccompanied kids in federal custody. We see a very different picture than the reporters see. Leecia Welch, National Center for Youth Law "We see a very different picture," says Leecia Welch, senior director of legal advocacy and child welfare at the National Center for Youth Law. "We see extremely traumatized children, some of whom sit across from us and can't stop crying over what they're experiencing." She continues, "We hear stories of children who are told from the first day of their orientation that under no circumstances can they touch another child in the facility, even their own sibling, even friends who they're saying goodbye to after many months of shared intense experience. They can't hug them goodbye. If they do, they're told they will be written up and it could affect their immigration case." Welch concludes, "We see a very different picture than the reporters see." Even HuffPost has covered the Homestead detention center with similar stories being told by child advocates who interviewed some of the children in the facility. Dr. Yenys Castillo, a clinical psychologist who has interviewed children at Homestead, said children in these environments have elevated stress hormones that can lead to mental and physical health problems. She spoke with children whose friends had begun self-harming, and said she worries about kids becoming suicidal. “They are not allowed to be children and it’s developmentally inappropriate,” she said. “This is one of the most traumatized populations I’ve ever worked with.” One lawyer said her team interviewed a child who had attempted suicide and been hospitalized three times. On a personal note, when I was involved with Occupy Tallahassee, one of the projects Occupy Tallahassee took on was lobbying the legislature to do away with private prisons in Florida. It is disgusting that any corporation or human being is allowed to profit from the misery of another human being. These children are being held in prison like conditions and are being psychologically traumatized.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 8:09am

30 days, not 90 days

@dfarrah

Not half long enough in many cases. If you need 31 days or longer, too bad so sad watch out for your wallet.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:11pm

You got one thing right.

Children are being treated as pawns in this debate.

By both sides.

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:33pm

[Edited] Really?

$775 per day? $282,875 per year per immigrant? Really? What, are they staying at the Four Seasons Hotel?

This whitepaper by the National Immigration Forum, a liberal-leaning on immigration policy organization, puts the daily cost at $208. See: The Math of Immigration Detention

If you cite phony statistics to support your case, as in your $775 figure, people will tend to disbelieve your message.

Submitted by Not Henry Kissinger on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 12:37pm

As long as we're talking phony...

@edg

This whitepaper by the National Immigration Forum, a liberal immigration policy organization

From their 'vision' statement:

The National Immigration Forum’s vision for the future is a 21st century immigration system that helps new Americans gain the opportunities, skills and status they need to realize their full potential.

To achieve this vision, we bring together moderate and conservative faith, law enforcement and business leaders to weigh in with media and policy makers in support of practical and commonsense immigration, citizenship and integration policies. The Forum helps Americans advocate for the nation they seek for their children: a nation of laws and a nation of grace.

In particular, we utilize our unique Bibles, Badges and Business campaign and our innovative New American Workforce business engagement program to explain policy issues in a creative way; to execute digital and traditional grasstops and grassroots strategies that position immigrants and refugees as protectors, givers and Americans in the eyes of the public; and to advocate for a new way forward for America’s immigration system.

Yeah, a real bunch of hippies you're citing there.

You are also confusing costs with payments, but you know that.

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Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:34pm

My Apology

@Not Henry Kissinger @Not Henry Kissinger

I didn't know about the religious component of their policy. I suppose that makes anything they produce suspect.

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:38pm

Costs vs payments

@Not Henry Kissinger

I'm not sure what your point is. "the Forum divides the annual Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Custody Operations budget by the number of detention beds Congress mandates". The DHS budget is the total amount budgeted and spent. Payments cannot exceed that. If you have other data that supports the $775 figure, I'd like to see it.

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:40pm

Cited in my comment below

@edg with a link and a quote.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:15pm

As if liberal sources

@Not Henry Kissinger are so much more accurate and objective.....

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dfarrah

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:17pm

Yes, I can believe $775 per day per child detainee

@edg $567 skim off the top for the like of John Kelly and his rich cohort. Private detention centers, just like private prisons prioritize profit over everything and anything else. Privatization of legal detention facilities, whether prison or immigrant holding pens, ought not to be permitted.

Seeing the Tulsi video is an eye opener. Poseur prima AOC does photo ops of alligator tears at a fence adjacent to an empty lot. Did AOC go to the border to really view the situation? I doubt that.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 4:21pm

Did you need to bring up AOC?

@Alligator Ed

Why? Just to make some point that has nothing to do with with this essay that is about the possibility of children being sent to Gitmo? Oh well it's not like that is something that hasn't happened before right? People who aren't us can be treated any way just to send a message that they aren't welcome here in this great country.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 5:09pm

Sorry f my comment may have represented threadjacking

@snoopydawg The purpose of the comment was to compare AOC to Tulsi, which I realize is off-topic also. For this I apologize.

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 5:49pm

And to think of the faux outrage that Antifa threw milkshakes

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg at Nazi's. This right here is what happens when you don't FIGHT fascism. Not protest it, not condemn it. Break it's fucking face. the great paradox, we cannot tolerate the intolerance because fascism always leads to THIS.

And THIS can never be allowed to keep happening. Fascism MUST be made to die. Torn out by its roots. From under every rock and crevice. Aggressively, and with violence when required.

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:39pm

Maybe you prefer this antifa

@Battle of Blair Mountain action instead of tossing milkshakes?

https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/todd-starnes-antifa-portland-mayor

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dfarrah

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 2:39pm

Nope, not phony information. Straight from the US government.

@edg as per NPR article that I cited above. This is a private, for profit detention facility. From that article...

The operator is Comprehensive Health Services. The Florida-based company dispatched medical teams to the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina, to Haiti after the earthquake, and to Balad Air Base in Iraq. And in 2016, it entered the migrant shelter business. The current Homestead contract with the Department of Health and Human Services is worth up to $220 million.

The average daily cost to care for a child at an influx facility is about $775 a day, according to Evelyn Stauffer, press secretary at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. With nearly 1,600 children at Homestead, that puts the burn rate at over $1.2 million a day.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 3:38pm

One particular center, yes.

@gulfgal98 @gulfgal98

From the same article: "The average cost for a migrant child at one of the 130 smaller, permanent shelters contracted to HHS is about a third of that."

It's wrong to cite the $775 figure without including the context that the figure applies to only a single company that got a sweetheart deal because of behind the scenes shenanigans. Trump's former Chief of Staff John Kelly is on the board of directors of that company.

Costs over $1 million per day

Homestead is like no other federal children’s shelter in America. Not only is it the biggest — it has been contracted to receive up to 2,350 kids — it’s the only youth sanctuary operated for a profit.

The operator is Comprehensive Health Services. The Florida-based company dispatched medical teams to the Gulf Coast after Hurricane Katrina, to Haiti after the earthquake, and to Balad Air Base in Iraq. And in 2016, it entered the migrant shelter business. The current Homestead contract with the Department of Health and Human Services is worth up to $220 million.

The average daily cost to care for a child at an influx facility is about $775 a day, according to Evelyn Stauffer, press secretary at the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. With nearly 1,600 children at Homestead, that puts the burn rate at over $1.2 million a day.

The average cost for a migrant child at one of the 130 smaller, permanent shelters contracted to HHS is about a third of that.

“The cost of a temporary shelter is significantly higher because of the need to develop facilities quickly and hire significant staff over a short period of time,” Stauffer wrote in an email to NPR.

Source: Inside The Largest And Most Controversial Shelter For Migrant Children In The U.S.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 6:44pm

Even with the lowest number

@edg

The centers are getting enough money to feed them properly and give them basic needs don't you think?

I can't believe that this is the issue that you find important to discuss. How much profit they get instead of what is happening.

How do you know that it's just one center that gets that much per person? Maybe others are getting even more?

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 11:18pm

When questionable statistics are presented

@snoopydawg

or facts are cited out of context, it distracts from your work. That $775 figure jumped out at me, to the exclusion of the rest of the diary. It was so far out there that it led me to research the number instead of focusing on what is happening.

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:44pm

Well, someone really needs to take a

@edg look at that graft and make some connections.

It seems the HHS person is comparing costs related to start up with ongoing costs(?)

So now, I'm really confused as to how the costs are being counted.

Needless to say, I should go audit this.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 1:33pm

Both snoopydawg and I were very clear

@edg in our citation of that statistic that it was applicable to privately run detention centers, of which Homestead Florida center is the largest in the nation.

I am not sure why you are arguing this point solely when the bulk of snoopydawg's essay and my own comments pertained more to how these immigrants, the children especially, are being subjected to horrendous psychological conditions that are akin to being in a prison.

My point is that if they are being treated this poorly in the US, one has to wonder how much worse it would be if the government decides to move them to Gitmo where there is absolutely zero oversight. The obscene amount of money being paid to private contractors is tangential to the fact that this country is abusing children who are fleeing horrific conditions that this country created in their home countries.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by edg on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 1:54pm

No, you weren't clear.

@gulfgal98

Here's what snoop wrote in the essay: "Private detention centers receive $775 a day to hold immigrants".

That's false. There's only one out of more than 100 that receives that amount.

Whatever point s/he was trying to make was undercut by that distracting out of context quote. When you're essaying or commenting on an important topic, it's crucial to avoid red flags, out of context quotes, and questionable statistics. Otherwise, expect your readers to be distracted. That's not hard to understand, is it?

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 5:48pm

Please give us some links or citations

@edg for your contention. Thank you.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 5:45pm

@edg As per an article in

@edg @edg As per an article in Business Insider, 71% of all immigrants are housed in private, for profit facilities. It does not state the daily cost of housing these people in these private, for profit facilities, but I am willing to bet it is not cheap.

As the National Immigrant Justice Center notes, on an average day in November 2017, ICE held most people — 71% of the total — in prisons operated by private companies. Since 2012, every authorized ICE facility has passed every government inspection, even those where multiple people have died, with some deaths later reported a result of medical neglect.

The bottom line for me is that to quibble over a single figure that was clearly stated to pertain to a single, for profit facility in Homestead Florida, misses the bigger picture here. That is that we are treating people who are fleeing countries from which the United States has enacted regime change or has interfered in the internal affairs thereof as criminals when we should be treating them first as human beings and second as refugees. There is a simple solution to our border problem and that is to quit trying to effect regime change.

The fact that the government is contracting out to private for profit corporations to detain these people in prison like or even concentration camp conditions is shocking and speaks of the cavalier attitude this country has toward human beings who happen to be poor and mostly of color. It should make every American ashamed.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by dfarrah on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 7:54pm

With conditions being so

@gulfgal98 horrific in Central America, can you explain why so few El Salvadorian, Hondurans, and Guatemalans are fleeing to the US?

The population of these 3 countries approximates 32 million; around 300,000 left around 2018.

That is not even 1% of the total population.

Lets add a few more to cover more years. Say the number is around 600,000 in the last few years came to the US.

Wow, even 600,000 only reaches 1.875%.

Just tonight, I heard that 600,000 arrived in the US between January and June of this year. So, 1,200,000 divided by 32 million is a big whopping 3.75%.

Despite the 'horrific' conditions in these countries, at least 95% of the population (to be generous to your side here) have decided to stay in their home countries.

And here is an article that states that violence has dropped significantly in the last five years.

https://www.latimes.com/world/mexico-americas/la-fg-honduras-violence-20...

Somehow, I feel like I've been fed alot of bull when it comes to the horrors of being in those countries. Unless my math is way off (and I was really tired when I looked these numbers up)....

I'm also questioning the validity of the horror reports about the centers. Do you really believe that the centers are being run by sadists? Even the Obama guy in charge says that the facilities weren't sufficient for the volume during the Obama years. The activists you cite have one agenda, and that is open borders. And why would people believe people who are in the facilities who want to get out?

So you see deliberate cruelty while I see an overstressed system not designed to handle the volume.

And as a reminder (really, I'm not letting people off the hook about this), people on the left and center laughed off Trump well over a year ago when he was sounding the alarm.

AOC's toilet stories have already been debunked. Then she blathered how she was so a-scared of the personnel. All of this hysteria is reminding me of Kavanaugh, Trump's election and all those women screaming on a stage (remember Madge - she wanted to bomb the whitehouse?), the way a parent might coach their children to lie about what the other parent is doing (things like that can result in that large group of parents being accused of some sort of sex ring) and the hysteria about Clinton(s) decorating a tree with sex toys.

IMO, AOC and others are becoming the Julie Swetnicks of immigration.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 4:28pm

Guess you didn't read my comment which

@edg

links that number? This seems to happen frequently here. It cost your number in 2014, but that was before we were separating children from their parents which is not legal or necessary. Or ethical. Or moral.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 5:12pm

Moral and ethical

@snoopydawg are the real problems with US policy on detention, especially the detention of minors.

These are prison facilities at best and in some cases, concentration camps. If detainees, either adults or minors are sent to Gitmo, they become more out of sight and out of mind for the public at large. One can only wonder what would happen to them there, when we are already seeing just how inhumane our present system of detaining this people.

It speaks to just how barbaric our nation continues to be.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by edg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 6:19pm

Guess you didn't read my comment either

@snoopydawg

The one in response to GulfGal. Where I show that there's only one single center that is paid that much, and it's run by a company with Trump's former Chief of Staff John Kelly on the board of directors. Sounds like a sweetheart deal for that one company. According to the government spokesperson that introduced the $775 figure, the other 130 centers only cost about 1/3rd that much.

Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 5:33pm

BARF

Hopefully, this will at least be a "the goddamn river is fucking on fire" moment for/against the entire post-9/11 police state.

Expect attempts to leave Trump with the full bill while W the Prime Mover and Obama the Collaborator try to sneak away. Don't let them.

—

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 6:29pm

I'm not leaving previous presidents off the hook

@The Liberal Moonbat

I've commented quite frequently that this stuff happened during Obama's tenure first and it was just as abhorrent then as it now. I called out Obama for being the deporter in chief when he was in office. But Trump has taken this much further than Obama did because he is separating children that came with parents just to make a point.

Remember the stories of babies and kids being taken from their parents and stuck in detention centers while the parents were deported back to their country? No previous presidents did that to my knowledge. This administration didn't/doesn't track the kids and now they have no idea what to do with them. Plus Trump is making people get fingerprinted which is acceptable, but he's sharing the information with ICE and DHS which scares people off because of their fear.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:47pm

Obama also separated

@snoopydawg parents and children.

He's on tape, discussing immigration, and says that the migrants need to know that they risk separation from their children. (when he was warning migrants not to come).

—

dfarrah

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 11:20pm

I know that

@dfarrah

and I have stated it many times here as well as in the comment you're replying to. How many times do I have to say that history didn't start the day Trump became president? But Trump is making it much worse than any previous presidents because of how he has changed the rules which is illegal both internationally and unconstitutionally. It's not illegal for people to ask for asylum at the border which most of them do. He's taking kids out of their parent's arms and deporting the parents while not keeping track of where the kids go. Plus he's making his friends very wealthy. If we can't afford to feed them then reunite them with their parents and send them home.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by wokkamile on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 9:43am

Do u have link

@dfarrah to that alleged tape? It's my understanding under Obama, while there were many deportations, there was no separation of children from families policy except for already in-place narrow factors, having to do with safety of child, whether custodial adult posed a danger or was not an actual relative of child.

It was under Trump, his AG Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, that a "zero tolerance" policy was initiated in Apr 2018 which led to children being separated from parents and custodial family members in order to punish and deter. Typically Trump lied and said it had started under Obama and his admin was doing its best to rectify the situation Obama created.

Submitted by dfarrah on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 10:51pm

I found it today,

@wokkamile but right now I can't find it.

So I will look over the weekend.

My description was not precise - he was warning parents against sending their children here because they would be sent back. It sounds like he was talking about children sent over here alone.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 11:08am

Kitchen sink next?

@dfarrah

My description was not precise - he was warning parents against sending their children here because they would be sent back. It sounds like he was talking about children sent over here alone.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this essay. I recently watched his video detailing what he was doing in regards to immigration and if I had just read the transcript I would have thought it was Trump. But as I have stated numerous times but will do so again, Trump is not doing anything Obama didn't do. Okay. Now can you let that go?

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by dfarrah on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 7:57pm

Geez, the person asked for a link.

@snoopydawg Chill.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 10:01pm

Actually it was you that brought this subject up

@dfarrah

Again.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by Battle of Blair... on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 5:41pm

If this is what they do in front of congressmen

Imagine what the sick evil psychos will do in Guantanamo? This should spark civil war. It won't, because America is full of morally destitute cowards, but it should.

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:53pm

Pfffft.

@Battle of Blair Mountain AOC is so full.

This situation is beginning to remind me of the hysteria over the babies being torn from incubators and the many adults accused by children of sexual abuse when it turned out not to have happened.

AOC is a natural at hysteria. She also voted against the immigrant aid package, so this tells me if she has a choice between keeping the baby alive, and cutting it in half, she would choose the latter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgment_of_Solomon

—

dfarrah

Submitted by wendy davis on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 4:33pm

ever the victim.

@Battle of Blair Mountain

it's her modus operandi (poor little ol' me!) and once again she make the story about herself, not the incarcerated.

Submitted by wendy davis on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 6:28pm

i appreciate your not staying silent.

i got a bit confused by reading too many of the links, although the 'old dormitory in gitmo' NYT piece is behind a paywall for me, and one Gitmo link only went to a long timeline.

now this DoD $23 million contract is on top of what you and wsws had featured in your 'Bipartisan anti-immigrant rampage'? and the immigration forum stats and funding bills afoot: are they watchdogs for immigrant abuses? i finall backed out on the aclu 'alternatives' as i'd read too much.

even the npr portions gulfgal had pasted in made me think of 'religious' indian schools, which had literally kidnapped kids to turn them into acceptable to the greater society white kids for their own good. no touching, no native language, shaved heads, scrubbed with anti-lice poisons, no cultural clothes or prayers, on and on.

i've already forgotten the funding bill's designation, but will it get the same bipartisan chicanery as w/ your 'bipartisan' one had? wish i thought aspie corner's remedy would work, but a hella lotta cubanos would die trying.

oh, and are we to assume these chirren have been free by now?

By 1995 there were still more than 200 unaccompanied kids from Haiti languishing at Guantanamo, despite having relatives and other sponsors in the U.S. ready to welcome them.

what a barbaric #shithole nation this is.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 7:24pm

I don't make the links...

@wendy davis

and have no control of where they go.

Just read the article that Joe posted in the EBs where it says that Anne Frank wasn't killed by the Nazis. She died from typhus and malnutrition. Lice are carriers of typhus as well as other diseases and there is the story of guards making children share two combs even though they all had lice. I once photographed lice using a special camera device and it gave me the heeby geebie for a week. I swear the damn thing looked at me just before I took the picture. Gahh!

what a barbaric #shithole nation this is.

Can't argue with that.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by dfarrah on Mon, 07/01/2019 - 9:55pm

My dad caught lice

@snoopydawg from a barber shop. It was no fun getting rid of it.

—

dfarrah

Submitted by wendy davis on Tue, 07/02/2019 - 4:36pm

i realize that you don't

@snoopydawg

make the links. my interest in the link to the Times was to discover more about this:

'In April, we also learned that the Department of Homeland Security considered sending migrant children to an old “dormitory facility” at Guantanamo.

all i can see of the piece is 'ICE Faces Migrant Detention Crunch as Border Chaos Spills Into Interior of the Country', caitlin dickerson, april 22. so i'd wondered how accurate the report was, is all. the Times is well known for its Truthiness, no? '

on edit: was it an anonymous source/rumor? i tried backwards bingling, but never found any reprints.

a café commenter brought this pro publica exposé to add to my earlier 'racist puerco-in-chief...' diary, but wsws has the depraved fascist story as well: US Border Patrol agents joke about immigrant deaths in secret Facebook group with 9,500 members', George Marlowe, 2 July 2019

"According to the ProPublica report, agents also threatened violence against members of Congress who were slated to visit one of the CBP detention centers in El Paso, Texas on Monday, posting sexually explicit images of the Democratic Representative from New York Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez."

large snip

While Ocasio-Cortez visited the El Paso facility Monday to decry the conditions and was the object of violent shaming and derision by the Border Patrol, she also bears responsibility for the crimes being carried out in these concentration camps.

Her crocodile tears notwithstanding, Ocasio-Cortez voted last week to allow a vote in the House to pass the Democratic-approved Senate bill to give $4.6 billion for Trump’s concentration camps. She has towed the line of Nancy Pelosi and leading Democrats in giving support to Trump’s war on immigrants while feigning occasional sympathy for the horrendous conditions they face.

Submitted by wendy davis on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 10:26am

i did just find this re: the NYT

@wendy davis

april 22 2019 gitmo for children story:

The proposal to detain children on Guantanamo Bay has not gained momentum, possibly due to the bad optics of detaining children on the same base as terror suspects, The Times reported, citing one unnamed official who had seen the proposal.
A Pentagon spokesman told The Times there are no “immediate” plans to house children at Guantanamo Bay, but officials are searching for military bases that could be used.

unnamed = anonymous weasel words as always at the Times. 'unnamed generals are saying that trump means to leave nato': resulting in the reactionary 'defense of Nato' bill.

‘Seattle judge blocks Trump attempt to lock up asylum seekers indefinitely’ July 2, 2019, crosscut.com

“U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman ruled that asylum seekers who are detained after entering the country and found to have a credible fear of returning home are entitled to prompt bond hearings. The ruling was in response to a lawsuit brought by the Northwest Immigrant Rights Project, among other immigrant-rights groups.

“The purposes of immigration detention are simple and straightforward: to facilitate removal (if removal is deemed justified), and to prevent flight and harm to the community,” reads Pechman’s order.

“Detention that does not serve those legitimate ends violates due process; bond hearings are the most efficacious mean[s] of insuring those purposes are being served,” Pechman wrote, while noting that “freedom from imprisonment” constitutes the core of the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution.

Pechman added that lengthy detentions might also lead some asylum seekers to “simply abandon their claim and accept deportation back to countries where, as it has already been established to the government’s satisfaction, they face persecution, torture, and possibly death.”

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 11:17am

Thanks for the addition and update

@wendy davis

Judges ruled against Obama numerous times for trying to skirt the system and yet here we are still locking them up for longer periods than allowed by law and still fighting the same fights. A judge ruled over a year ago that Trump had so many days to reunite the kids with their parents or guardians and that is when we found out that he didn't keep records of who went were or what happened to the parents.

IIRC the ACLU are now in charge of doing that.

—

To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.

- Kevin Alfred Strom

Submitted by wendy davis on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 5:41pm

the aclu may

@snoopydawg

take charge of it, and yes, trump's fascist DHS don't comply. but my larger hope was to show that the NYT piece on 'detaining children at gitmo' was by way of two anonymous people, or: likely a NYT psyop against trump. they've done anti-trump 'whisper campaigns' like this any number of times, and dagnabbit, i had a link to the many times just over the past year or so, but i've mislaid it.

again, not that i'd put it past him or john kelly, but it may not have been so...in this case.

Submitted by dfarrah on Wed, 07/03/2019 - 8:01pm

Sounds like some

@wendy davis never-Trumper dug in deep who now leaks false stories to whip up the hysteria.

—

dfarrah