was twenty-five years ago?
Fuck, I'm old.
@detroitmechworks

As to the post; we're So screwed.

No reason to turn on the idiot box these days. The MSM likes to refer to us as "Cord Cutting" people, because they want that image of Luddites smashing mills to be the first thing you think of. Course that doesn't take into effect that it's not the equivalent of killing a press, but rather these days they see it as telling the trustee that you won't be including him in your escape plans.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0]

@detroitmechworks
(apologies for the digression right off the bat, Centaurea)

I've played that song so many times onstage. Most notably behind a pretty diverse collection of folks, that includes Jim Carrey, Serena Williams and Tim Pool (of Occupy livestream fame).

The Pumpkins, man.

Will never forget the Virgin Records rep coming to our office with a spread of barbecue for a listening party of "Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness." I was already a fan from their first Caroline record "Gish," saw then then at CBGB's and remember noting of their inclusion on the "Singles" soundtrack that, although not a Seattle band, it was a watershed moment of the burgeoning grunge scene about to take over and roll the alternative rock world, right over the cheese metal and slick, overproduced pop garbage that would soon appear comparatively thin, soulless and dated.

From the opening instrumental title track right into "Tonight, Tonight" the orchestral touches couching the powerful hard rock (and the great cover art) were immediately enchanting and mesmerizing. I knew it was going to be a hugely successful follow-up to "Siamese Dream."

I don't know why they often get overshadowed by the Seattle grunge scene when talking about the 90's. But they were just as consequential. Like Soundgarden sometimes, the Pumpkins live could be hit or miss. Corgan was famously tempermental, and like Cobain, could resort to ridiculing his audience. Ironic that the two were both linked to having Courtney Love as lovers.

Saw the Pumpkins once sandwiched in between Pearl Jam and the Red Hot Chili Peppers at Roseland, at the time when PJ was riding a rocket early on not long after their debut came out and actually opened the show. The energy in the room was electrifying, but they were lackluster, paling in comparison to the other two (all would go on to become big arena bands). Was at Roseland, a place that maybe held a few thousand and was a venerable decades old grand ballroom dancehall, which now unfortunately doesn't exist because another greedy developer wanted to build "luxury" condos.

I don't know where but I thought I saw in passing that Corgan might be a RW Libertarian sort. Haven't looked; don't want to be dismayed.

Can't take away from the power of all those records though.

(On a personal note to you detroit, if you aren't familiar withe their cover of Alice Cooper's "Clones" - you have to check it out. One of the great tunes near the beginning of the New Wave era, in which a few heritage rock artists made the break to embrace the new genre and did it well.
BTW, the Pumpkins releases a lot a covers. There's a really neat collection of them that was packaged in an old 45's-style carrying case. Among the gems are a cover of 70's hit "Jackie Blue" (one of my favorite singles growing up) and the Cars "You're All I've Got Tonight.")

No reason to turn on the idiot box these days. The MSM likes to refer to us as "Cord Cutting" people, because they want that image of Luddites smashing mills to be the first thing you think of. Course that doesn't take into effect that it's not the equivalent of killing a press, but rather these days they see it as telling the trustee that you won't be including him in your escape plans.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-r-V0uK4u0]

@Mark from Queens

Show the crimes of that Assange has exposed. Remind everyone, vividly, what this country has done, and what so many have conveniently forgotten.

that the PTB are flailing away while their house built on sand is shifting around dangerously.

As others here have been saying this was one of the best discussions on MSM (of course it was RT):

The host of Crossfire, Peter Lavelle, put it this way:

What we have now, is that we saw this show of force of dragging Julian Assange out of the Ecuadorian embassy, but it told me something that they don't want me to think.

It shows me that these the national security state is actually quite weak and timid in its ability to communicate its position of why it legitimately has power. Because it show something about the powers that be themselves, to be weaker in weaker, because they're unable to be able to engage in discussion and in debate and maybe argument. But they deny the other
side. They are only right and people must follow, because look what they did to Julian Assange - we can do it to you. That's the message they're sending.

That's power at its weakest point, because it only it relies on coercion not argument.

Sarah Flounders provides the prescription to all of us:

Really, what was exposed are the dark crimes that the US has committed in its wars. 200,000 cables, video footage images. That should be the response of anyone who is challenging right now this this brutal, really, this arrest of Assange.

And that is, let's go back and revive bring forward again what it was that WikiLeaks exposed. What was in those cables? Let's show again those videos where civilians were killed by helicopter gunships; let's show again the torture; let's show again Guantanamo. If they're going to pull Julian Assange out of the embassy, absolutely an outrageous crime, then let's show again all of their crimes.

I think that can be the only response, the only legitimate response is to show that there is no freedom of press now. Major corporate media reported it at the time and then they sort of let it go to sleep. Well, this revived it again and I think we have a responsibility to talk about what WikiLeaks contributed to this, and what Chelsea Manning did in all of those
documents. And she has really suffered for this and is now in prison again. There should really be a campaign for her immediate release. This is after a pardon. It shows how vindictive they are and how they want to use intimidation.

And I think we have to refuse to be intimidated. It is a real role for the media to challenge this again and bring forward once again, remind people what Julian Assange's contribution.

It is flabbergasting to observe how the big Hate Inc. (as Taibbi calls it) Machine has clouded and confused the minds of so many (including many friends who should know better) with their rank and vile fear-mongering, obfuscation and cowardice to go after the real culprits making our lives miserable.

So many thoughtful and progressive-minded people I know have jettisoned their own reason and rationale in the torrent of propaganda flowing at them all day on social media. THAT is the linchpin right there: how one gets informed about the world in which one lives in. Those social media channels are deeply manipulated and poisoned, designed for echo chamber agreement based upon partisan "reporting."

And like Taibbi says in his forthcoming, serialized book, the media has put all of its effort into nakedly ratcheting up the partisan accusations and then preying upon its fears to completely destroy any semblance of rational discourse.

@MinuteMan

when we gave Pelosi the gavel because she said they would roll back the Bush abuses.

The best we can hope for is that they'll roll back the most obvious outrages

I thought Obama would stop the wars and roll back the Bush abuses on spying on us and also let the Bush tax cuts expire. He did neither. In fact he took the war of terror and put it on steroids and then he let our economy fend for itself, wanted to put SS on the table and froze federal wages during the recession recovery.

Democrats will not roll back the Trump tax cuts because it's their donors who wanted them. Will they put regulations back on corporations? I'm not sure because they aren't even speaking out about how bad it's getting now. I've been burned too many times to believe that anyone is going to do something to make my life better. This way if they don't I won't be disappointed. If they do I can be surprised.

if we don't deal with what gave us Trump -- the neocon/neoliberal corporatist coup over the past 40 years -- we will keep getting people like Trump.

That's exactly why we need to avoid "centrists" and "bipartisans" at all levels. The best we can hope for is that they'll roll back the most obvious outrages but by and large they will maintain the status quo. That will set us up for the next GOP or maybe even Dem authoritarian. Eventually we'll end up with a competent one and it'll be game over.

@dkmich had absolutely nothing in it that would incite violence.

Oh, except for the people who want to be violent and blame Trump for their violence.

"If they had the opportunity, they'd run him down like a dog, parade him through the streets while yelling obscenities and throwing rancid garbage and sewage at him, and then execute him publicly, and afterward display his head on a fencepost for all to see as a warning."

Not only would the dems run Assange down, they would run down anyone who doesn't agree with them. Actually, they are already engaging in repeated assaults and violence against Trump supporters.

The way they try to whip up hatred is shocking.

As usual, it's Fox news commenters to the rescue - Tucker Carlson just opined on his show that JA is guilty of nothing. He says that Manning was the one guilty of leaking, JA just reported the information. I don't know if this is true; I don't recall the details. At least someone in the news world is trying to defend press freedom.

They're on a new tear on Twitter over Trump's latest tweet and smear on Ilhan. Bernie, Warren, Pelosi, AOC, Tlaib all outraged and condemning Trump for inciting violence and putting a target on her back. While the tweet is outrageous and could incite some crazy right winger to shoot her, right now it is just another smear and opportunity to distract Americans from the political persecution of Assange, our free press, and our Constitution.

The silence from the so called miracle progressives reforming the Democratic Party from the inside exposes their scam and hypocrisy. They will scream about Islamaphobia and justice because it is Pelosi approved. Assange, however, is verboten for exposing the ugly underbelly of our government and so crickets.

The election is 18 months away, and I already hate all of them. Tulsi and Gravel are voices in the wilderness and neither of them have a snowball's chance in hell of changing a damn thing let alone winning. My guess is I vote Green again in 2020 just like I did in 2016.

@dkmich

So, so convenient to drag that rancid old shit back into the spotlight to add to all the other bullcrap.

The Assange Arrest is a Warning From History
by JOHN PILGER

The glimpse of Julian Assange being dragged from the Ecuadorean embassy in London is an emblem of the times. Might against right. Muscle against the law. Indecency against courage. Six policemen manhandled a sick journalist, his eyes wincing against his first natural light in almost seven years.

That this outrage happened in the heart of London, in the land of Magna Carta, ought to shame and anger all who fear for “democratic” societies. Assange is a political refugee protected by international law, the recipient of asylum under a strict covenant to which Britain is a signatory. The United Nations made this clear in the legal ruling of its Working Party on Arbitrary Detention.

But to hell with that. Let the thugs go in. Directed by the quasi fascists in Trump’s Washington, in league with Ecuador’s Lenin Moreno, a Latin American Judas and liar seeking to disguise his rancid regime, the British elite abandoned its last imperial myth: that of fairness and justice.

Imagine Tony Blair dragged from his multi-million pound Georgian home in Connaught Square, London, in handcuffs, for onward dispatch to the dock in The Hague. By the standard of Nuremberg, Blair’s “paramount crime” is the deaths of a million Iraqis. Assange’s crime is journalism: holding the rapacious to account, exposing their lies and empowering people all over the world with truth.
- snip

Assange’s principal media tormentor, the Guardian, a collaborator with the secret state, displayed its nervousness this week with an editorial that scaled new weasel heights. The Guardian has exploited the work of Assange and WikiLeaks in what its previous editor called “the greatest scoop of the last 30 years”. The paper creamed off WikiLeaks’ revelations and claimed the accolades and riches that came with them.

Real journalism is the enemy of these disgraces. A decade ago, the Ministry of Defence in London produced a secret document which described the “principal threats” to public order as threefold: terrorists, Russian spies and investigative journalists. The latter was designated the major threat.

I read Sweden is considering re-instituting the rape charges.

@dkmich
it will delay Assange's eventual extradition to the US, which could only be to his benefit.

The Assange Arrest is a Warning From History
by JOHN PILGER

The glimpse of Julian Assange being dragged from the Ecuadorean embassy in London is an emblem of the times. Might against right. Muscle against the law. Indecency against courage. Six policemen manhandled a sick journalist, his eyes wincing against his first natural light in almost seven years.

That this outrage happened in the heart of London, in the land of Magna Carta, ought to shame and anger all who fear for “democratic” societies. Assange is a political refugee protected by international law, the recipient of asylum under a strict covenant to which Britain is a signatory. The United Nations made this clear in the legal ruling of its Working Party on Arbitrary Detention.

But to hell with that. Let the thugs go in. Directed by the quasi fascists in Trump’s Washington, in league with Ecuador’s Lenin Moreno, a Latin American Judas and liar seeking to disguise his rancid regime, the British elite abandoned its last imperial myth: that of fairness and justice.

Imagine Tony Blair dragged from his multi-million pound Georgian home in Connaught Square, London, in handcuffs, for onward dispatch to the dock in The Hague. By the standard of Nuremberg, Blair’s “paramount crime” is the deaths of a million Iraqis. Assange’s crime is journalism: holding the rapacious to account, exposing their lies and empowering people all over the world with truth.
- snip

Assange’s principal media tormentor, the Guardian, a collaborator with the secret state, displayed its nervousness this week with an editorial that scaled new weasel heights. The Guardian has exploited the work of Assange and WikiLeaks in what its previous editor called “the greatest scoop of the last 30 years”. The paper creamed off WikiLeaks’ revelations and claimed the accolades and riches that came with them.

Real journalism is the enemy of these disgraces. A decade ago, the Ministry of Defence in London produced a secret document which described the “principal threats” to public order as threefold: terrorists, Russian spies and investigative journalists. The latter was designated the major threat.

I read Sweden is considering re-instituting the rape charges.

@dkmich

The feelings of many, I'm sure, in the last 24 hours. This tells the tale of the immoral times we are living in and that, God willing, historians will write about.

The glimpse of Julian Assange being dragged from the Ecuadorean embassy in London is an emblem of the times. Might against right. Muscle against the law. Indecency against courage

.

The Assange Arrest is a Warning From History
by JOHN PILGER

The glimpse of Julian Assange being dragged from the Ecuadorean embassy in London is an emblem of the times. Might against right. Muscle against the law. Indecency against courage. Six policemen manhandled a sick journalist, his eyes wincing against his first natural light in almost seven years.

That this outrage happened in the heart of London, in the land of Magna Carta, ought to shame and anger all who fear for “democratic” societies. Assange is a political refugee protected by international law, the recipient of asylum under a strict covenant to which Britain is a signatory. The United Nations made this clear in the legal ruling of its Working Party on Arbitrary Detention.

But to hell with that. Let the thugs go in. Directed by the quasi fascists in Trump’s Washington, in league with Ecuador’s Lenin Moreno, a Latin American Judas and liar seeking to disguise his rancid regime, the British elite abandoned its last imperial myth: that of fairness and justice.

Imagine Tony Blair dragged from his multi-million pound Georgian home in Connaught Square, London, in handcuffs, for onward dispatch to the dock in The Hague. By the standard of Nuremberg, Blair’s “paramount crime” is the deaths of a million Iraqis. Assange’s crime is journalism: holding the rapacious to account, exposing their lies and empowering people all over the world with truth.
- snip

Assange’s principal media tormentor, the Guardian, a collaborator with the secret state, displayed its nervousness this week with an editorial that scaled new weasel heights. The Guardian has exploited the work of Assange and WikiLeaks in what its previous editor called “the greatest scoop of the last 30 years”. The paper creamed off WikiLeaks’ revelations and claimed the accolades and riches that came with them.

Real journalism is the enemy of these disgraces. A decade ago, the Ministry of Defence in London produced a secret document which described the “principal threats” to public order as threefold: terrorists, Russian spies and investigative journalists. The latter was designated the major threat.

I read Sweden is considering re-instituting the rape charges.

@dkmich

but I'm not well-informed on this subject; I pay little attention to the "rape charges" because it's the state, not the women, deciding whether or not to "revive" them, which to my mind, confirms that it's a smear.

The Assange Arrest is a Warning From History
by JOHN PILGER

The glimpse of Julian Assange being dragged from the Ecuadorean embassy in London is an emblem of the times. Might against right. Muscle against the law. Indecency against courage. Six policemen manhandled a sick journalist, his eyes wincing against his first natural light in almost seven years.

That this outrage happened in the heart of London, in the land of Magna Carta, ought to shame and anger all who fear for “democratic” societies. Assange is a political refugee protected by international law, the recipient of asylum under a strict covenant to which Britain is a signatory. The United Nations made this clear in the legal ruling of its Working Party on Arbitrary Detention.

But to hell with that. Let the thugs go in. Directed by the quasi fascists in Trump’s Washington, in league with Ecuador’s Lenin Moreno, a Latin American Judas and liar seeking to disguise his rancid regime, the British elite abandoned its last imperial myth: that of fairness and justice.

Imagine Tony Blair dragged from his multi-million pound Georgian home in Connaught Square, London, in handcuffs, for onward dispatch to the dock in The Hague. By the standard of Nuremberg, Blair’s “paramount crime” is the deaths of a million Iraqis. Assange’s crime is journalism: holding the rapacious to account, exposing their lies and empowering people all over the world with truth.
- snip

Assange’s principal media tormentor, the Guardian, a collaborator with the secret state, displayed its nervousness this week with an editorial that scaled new weasel heights. The Guardian has exploited the work of Assange and WikiLeaks in what its previous editor called “the greatest scoop of the last 30 years”. The paper creamed off WikiLeaks’ revelations and claimed the accolades and riches that came with them.

Real journalism is the enemy of these disgraces. A decade ago, the Ministry of Defence in London produced a secret document which described the “principal threats” to public order as threefold: terrorists, Russian spies and investigative journalists. The latter was designated the major threat.

I read Sweden is considering re-instituting the rape charges.

@Le Frog
(which nails some of the sports/politics/tribalism phenomenon pretty sharply) is that the Leafs are very good this year. there's a possibility of an "All Canadian Final" -- Calgary vs Toronto -- that will bring to the forefront that "they're a Canadian team!" meme you mentioned.

On the other hand (note that these videos span 5 years of Leafs' futility and their fans' response thereto):
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dry6bqzZbFc]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jg_TZa_ASnQ]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N86N4pfEx0Q]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN-yyGZcEYU]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0qLaO7Ib2U]
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtZdVQj1nlE]

I'm going to ramble for a moment, so first I'll say this post was great.

The simplest way that this all makes sense for me is to see politics approached like sports. I think it was Steve Almond in his Against Football book who introduced the idea to me: sports in America counts for a lot, and the feverish fandom, us-against-them, winner-takes-all mindset permeates how people feel about every other aspect of their lives. "If you're not with us, you're against us." The two party system lends itself nicely to that dynamic; when a Congress person votes for a bill from the other party, I see far more howling about party betrayal than any substantive debate on the bill itself.

So I come back to that McResistance. Here in Canada, we have a hockey team called the Toronto Maple Leafs. They are objectively not very good these days, not in the last decade plus. However, the fans have created a myth of great and fabulousness about this team that does not reflect reality. Invariably, every time this team loses, it's because of a referee allegedly not paying attention or that a superstar player had an alleged cramp or that they weren't on home ice, etc. (This is true of the Toronto Blue Jays fans too, and to a lesser extent, the Toronto Raptors. I've been told that this is because Canadians must congregate around the only team we have in the league. Fine, but we have more than one hockey team, sometimes more than one per province! "But it's a Canadian team!!1!" The NHL's American-based teams are mostly over 50% Canadian players, so pick the one with the most Canadians on the team. "You don't understand!")

The McResistance is like this to me - can't admit that they lost and that their precious team doesn't have what it takes. There is no argument to sway that loyalty and no argument to knock that superstar off that pedestal. Now for some lore: a lot of the fighting among players on the ice was staged and nothing more than a performance. (There were real fights, yes, and the rules have changed over time to discourage fighting. But stay with me!) It was for the fans, to whip them up into a frenzy. Most of these players circulate among teams every few years; they play golf together, and maybe came from nearby towns in Saskatchewan. The rivalries are in fans' heads. So is that McResistance. The McResistance isn't for Nancy Pelosi's conscience, it's a business opportunity for her. And think too what Hillary Clinton has been doing with her time. Is she on the ground in Flint? Is she at Standing Rock? Is she organizing marches for military members who are trans? Where are her petitions, for literally anything? Where the hell is her #Resistance?

Every now and then, a hockey coach gets fired. The team has been doing terribly, they shit the bed in the playoffs (hi Blue Jays! Hi Raptors!) and it's time to get rid of the guy. What happens to that coach aren't consequences. He doesn't end up excommunicated from sports! He doesn't have to scramble for a job stocking shelves at the grocery store or driving a cab. He starts coaching another team - in the league or at an American university. But it's the performance of making a sacrifice that is satisfying, and that's a win.

So the left needs a win, one that can be folded into Russiapocalypse, preferrably. What happens when Julian Assange, someone actually "resisting" and embodying what it means, gets literally traded for some sweet cash? If the Russia angle works, that's enough, and whether it's true or not doesn't matter - give the fandom what it wants. The disgusting cheering for Assange's capture is the culmination of a disorganized and scattered witchhunt to blame someone for Hillary Clinton's mediocrity, for the totally-foreseeable Donald Trump presidency, and for the Timid Forest Creatures (Democrats) in Congress who are so helpless but can't seem to stop fucking us over. Throw everything and anything and see what sticks. The Mueller report was supposed to be THE WIN. It made as much impact as a mouse fart on the Fourth of July. Aw shit! What happens now? New move - find a new scapegoat. Someone poor, preferably a little strange, someone who can be mocked. And voila!

As some comments have mentioned, I would love to see Tony Blair, Duyba, Barack Obama, Hillary Clinton, and a long list of their fellow criminals grabbed by the ankles and dragged out of ther mansions to the nearest holding cell. Tragically, Julian Assange won't be playing golf or luxuriating over cocktails; more likely he'll be shown the latest in enhanced interrogation techniques, followed by swimming lessons with a cement kickboard.