@arendt @arendt when I tell NeverTrumpers you really don’t want President Pence, I know what the hell I’m talking about. Not that they want to hear it or anything.

It’s not all terrible but living here has probably contributed to my political apathy as much as anything.

EDIT: to go back on topic, when Obama won Indiana, that confirmed everything I thought about him. The comparisons people are making of Mayor Pete to Obama are probably pretty apt because that’s the only kind of Democrat Indiana likes. (See also Evan Bayh, who I’m shocked they aren’t wheeling out yet again as a potential contender.)

#1.1.2

someone is always legitimately offended.

You have my condolences for being domiciled amongst that bunch.

Let’s say the goal is to pick the best shade of Blue.

You’re suggesting that the wavelength sort has failed. And that the wavelength sorter is a problem. But you are doing so because the final results are not correct. “They are not even Blue!”

But you miss the fact that it is the color chooser, the initial sort, or the initial color filter that has failed and is the critical problem. In the initial sort no blue was allowed. Just like in the initial political sort, no empathy, community, or humanity are allowed into the calculus: “Who pays whom?” and “What are the costs?” “Does this maximize profits (and GDP)?” is the extent of our initial political sort.

If no Blue is allowed in the initial sort, then you can’t sort the Blues, regardless of how you sort the wavelengths. You could do it with all the flexibility of the naked eye and human brain and still not be able to chooe a shade of Blue from the initial sort. No humanity, community, or empathy can be spat out of the color sorter because none of it went in.

That the sorter says that green is more blue than yellow is irrelevant trivia. If we want shades of Blue we have to choose, initially, from shades of blue.

The electoral college is so far down the flow chart that it’s effects on the results of races is negligible, to claim them to be a significant problem with US politics is a trivial assertion with little institutional validity. 


Also, I find your perspective on rural America to be fairly myopic and condescending. A little bit of empathy and imagination goes a long way towards understanding. The same can be done to Citiots:

Ah the sacred city dwelling population
@SnappleBC that big town fiction immortalized by global multimedia conglomerates. Smasing ideal!

I'm more interested in counting the votes of people, regardless of where they live, not so much in counting money, stocks or bonds, or giving excessive weight to those artificial constructs known as bank accounts.

It's very easy to make a caricature out of people and ideas, but you cannot communicate and have positive social interactions using caricatures as message.

Best of luck.
@wokkamile

#6.1.1 that small-town fiction immortalized by Norman Rockwell and Frank Capra. Charming ideal. I'm more interested in counting the votes of people, regardless of where they live, not so much in counting cows or chickens or giving excessive weight to those artificial constructs known as states.

The EC is an important reason our system is broken, but not the only one. There are definitely reforms to undertake in the areas of protecting and ensuring the right to vote. Voter suppression by the Rs and election fraud in the electronic manipulation of vote tallies are hugely important to address.

@gulfgal98 the current system of privileging the smaller less populous states. I see. I prefer putting people ahead of the artificial thing we call states, and in a democracy we're supposed to be about accepting the vote of the majority. Note too that no other civilized country in the world emulates our EC. In those places, the person or party with the most votes wins.

In an EC-abolished world we here in CA and many other states where most of the people live would actually get to see candidates for the highest office campaigning. Instead, they just come here to get the big bux in an exclusive private affair than leave. What a boost in getting people interested in the political process.

I'm also interested in Andrew Yang's idea of priority voting, being able to register a 1st and 2d preference until someone gets a majority. Many reforms needed. Doing an end-run around the EC with the National Popular Vote is another solid idea.

#6.1.1 candidates would focus almost exclusively on the two coasts and a few other populous states such as Texas. This basically would have the net effect of disenfranchising voters in smaller and less populous states as well as much of middle America. Under our current governing system, the electoral college serves as a balancing factor. I would consider being in favor of abolishing the electoral college if the United States operated under a parliamentary system. However, under our current system, I am for keeping the electoral college, however flawed it may be.

@gulfgal98

I'm open to hearing alternatives that don't disenfranchise most of the nation but until I do, then I stand with the EC.

Sure, that makes it hard for the neoliberal Democrats. They can't sell their slick tech-town glitter to the yokels so instead, they demonize them. My simple answer to that is that the Democratic Party needs to come up with some pitch that works for the deplorables. A good start on that is to stop thinking of them as deplorables and start listening to their issues. You know.. like a real candidate would.

#6.1.1 candidates would focus almost exclusively on the two coasts and a few other populous states such as Texas. This basically would have the net effect of disenfranchising voters in smaller and less populous states as well as much of middle America. Under our current governing system, the electoral college serves as a balancing factor. I would consider being in favor of abolishing the electoral college if the United States operated under a parliamentary system. However, under our current system, I am for keeping the electoral college, however flawed it may be.

@gulfgal98 candidates largely ignore most of the country in the general while focusing heavily on a few swing states. And it mostly tends to be the same small group of purple states being courted and catered to every 4 years. How about the rest of the country?

By eliminating the EC, or side-stepping it through the Nat'l Popular Vote method, candidates would be incentivized to go wherever they think they can find votes, including a D candidate going to a deep red state and vice versa.

Imagine candidates for president actually campaigning across the land, and not just in OH, FL, PN and 3-4 other states. A refreshing idea.

#6.1.1 candidates would focus almost exclusively on the two coasts and a few other populous states such as Texas. This basically would have the net effect of disenfranchising voters in smaller and less populous states as well as much of middle America. Under our current governing system, the electoral college serves as a balancing factor. I would consider being in favor of abolishing the electoral college if the United States operated under a parliamentary system. However, under our current system, I am for keeping the electoral college, however flawed it may be.

@UntimelyRippd
I've never aimed that criticism at any of the people you named. I don't know how old you are, but at the beginning of his public career, Ralph Nader was painfully shy. It was an effort for him to communicate over the media. The publicity hound meme occurred when Democrats wanted to blame his candidacy for a presidential defeat.

Edward Kennedy got a huge amount of publicity. But he had no need to fear that anyone could take it away. More importantly, he was widely respected in the senate for putting in the hours doing committee work. He had enough money (and fame) to get lots of assistance, but he put in the hours.

IMHO Jesse Jackson walked the walk as much as he talked the talk. He was beginning to meld white working class voters and students with black voters. Given the murders of MLK and RFK I'm not sure how he managed to stay alive. Maybe he stepped back in time.

I have not followed Al Sharpton closely enough to have an opinion.

Bernie Sanders has never in all these years been willing to sit down and talk with people who live in the affected area, which is interesting because they were, and for the most part still are, Bernie supporters. These are the people he's supposed to care about. And this is a case where he, single handedly, could have had a significant effect. If you email him on the subject he sends you back a list of talking points prepared by the commercial real estate industry and the VT Air Guard.

He relies on the commercial developers to claim people living in the area will not have to disclose that their homes are in an area deemed unfit for residential use. I'm not sure that's a good thing. In any case the Northwestern VT Association of Residential Realtors says they do. He says the VTANG will mitigate the noise. The USAF says, in writing, they can't. He stuck his fingers in his ears about medical effects years ago. VT is in the midst of an affordable housing crisis. But Bernie wants what he wants, which just happens to correspond with what his rich friends want.

If Bernie hadn't gone along with Russia, Russia, Russia, or the rigged primary, the party would have shut him down like they did during the early months of the 2016 primary and that was a price too high. People who worked their hearts out for Bernie were treated horribly at the convention. Did he speak out for them or even suggest it would be harder for him to turn them out for Hillary. No, and the DNC didn't have to threaten his family. They just had to threaten to cut off his mic.

#8.1.2
this:

Bernie is in love with the sound of his own voice. Nirvana for Bernie is speaking to an adoring crowd, preferably with a celebrity at each elbow.

is the first go-to criticism leveled at any person with any charisma who manages to mobilize the public from the left. Nader, Jackson, Sharpton, Ted Kennedy, blah blah blah all narcissists don't really care just love the spotlight yadda yadda yadda.

@UntimelyRippd  
anyone who was an independent thinker and not in league with the site’s Kool Kidz — suddenly, insider loudmouths would descend and accuse them of (1) only posting at TOP in order to promote themselves and sell their books (David Sirota) or (2) being guilty of one of the “isms” (Ted Rall was run off the site because his style of drawing Obama was deemed “racist”).

#8.1.2
this:

Bernie is in love with the sound of his own voice. Nirvana for Bernie is speaking to an adoring crowd, preferably with a celebrity at each elbow.

is the first go-to criticism leveled at any person with any charisma who manages to mobilize the public from the left. Nader, Jackson, Sharpton, Ted Kennedy, blah blah blah all narcissists don't really care just love the spotlight yadda yadda yadda.

@snoopydawg
Runways have been designed so that the worst of the noise will be inflicted almost entirely on some of the poorest people in the state. I suspect a larger group of people in the county are in for an unpleasant shock. It cheers me up.

The F35 was approved in the late 1990s with an expected production run to be delivered starting in 2010. The plane that's supposed to go into production in 2020 will be slower with much less climb, less maneuverable, with shorter range than was called for in the 2010 buy. When the Russians and the Chinese know the technology you'll be relying on and you give them an extra 10 years to prepare it's possible they've made some progress. It was never intended to be an air superiority fighter, but when the Obama Administration cancelled the F22 with a small percentage of the expected buy, the F35 became an air superiority fighter too.

Every time someone other than Lockheed looks at progress they find it continues to fall behind schedule. Readiness is not improving. The frequency of sorties is a bad joke unless you live near the thing in which case it's a very enjoyable joke. To save weight they use jet fuel as the coolant, which means it requires very special handling in the middle east. I haven't verified it but read a recent report that the cannons do not achieve the required accuracy. But, to maintain the illusion of progress, it appears the services will continue to accept delivery of flawed planes that will be fixed some day when fully operational planes can be produced.

#8.1.2

that scrap of metal called the F 35? It's still going over budget every year and not too long ago every one of them had been grounded. And once again we are seeing poor people paying the price for being poor. Building affordable housing in the flight path is just one more thing that wouldn't be tolerated in rich people's neighborhoods.

I grew up in the flight path of Hill Air Force base in Utah and I hated it. During the summer around 5 in the evening the jets come home from flying in the west desert and then they practice touch and goes for another hour. And now that the F 35 is stationed at Hill when they fly over my house it rattles the windows. I have a great place I like to walk, but there are days when they are doing the touch and goes right over me during the whole time. It's noise pollution and it's beyond horrible having to be subjected to this.

So yeah I'd love for someone to ask Bernie about them. I doubt we would like his answer though. This is why the military has plants in every state. Share the wealth and the pain.

@wokkamile

#9.1.1 exactly hamper O's chances in 2008. And re black, we had Jesse Jackson's 84 and 88 runs, which garnered plenty of attention. So gradually people became accustomed to the idea.

And Obama of course presented well with the white audiences, with his calm non-black speaking voice. Jesse was a little too black, too hot in the rhetoric. But his campaigns did make it easier for Obama years later to win.