I have no words for the trash pointed to in this OP
So primary season for 2020 has opened, and the first target is Bernie:
Has the fire Berned out?" the Boston Globe's Michael Levenson asks on the front page.
The state of play: "[A]s Sanders weighs another campaign, some say that even as he has moved the Democratic Party ideologically — pushing issues such as Medicare for all, free college tuition, and a $15 minimum wage into the mainstream — the party has moved past him personally."
"I don’t see a lot of lasting energy for Bernie," said Markos Moulitsas, the founder and publisher of Daily Kos. "It’s different from last time when he was the alternative to an unfortunately flawed front-runner ... Right now, the mantle of 'progressive' can be carried by any number of candidates."
Another huge factor in calls for Sanders to stand down: N.Y. Times and Politico reports from women who say they faced sexual harassment and sexism in Sanders' 2016 campaign.
The fax machines have distributed today's talking points. The buzzword of the day is "moved on".
Ahead of 2020, have Democrats "moved on" from Bernie Sanders?
The same zombie lies. The same bullshit conventional wisdom. Little yappy dog, Markos, making sure to bark and wag his tail at the corporatist propaganda.
----
Its not that I'm anxious to give my time to Bernie again, I think he's now a sheepdog, as I've said many times.
But the naked hostility, the constant drumbeat against the man, is sickening. "The mantle of progressive can be carried by many candidates". You mean the fake sheepdog AOC, don't you unsigned editorialist at Axios - quoting an editorialist at the Globe. The completely overblown "sexism" charge is trotted out yet again, while its perfectly fine for a newly elected IdPol person to call Trump a motherf*****. Complete hypocrisy.
Jesus, even though I think the whole thing is rigged, the blatant agenda setting here just makes me want to punch someone. Its time for Bernie to "move on", but Joe Fuking Biden is a front-runner, according to the same conventionally wise-guys? The arrogance burns.
Comments
What better reason does he need?
If he's naive enough to believe that the dim party can be changed he's finished.
Now is his time to make a move that has a chance to ignite.
Endorse a full move to and support an independent party. Could care less what they call it. Could care less if he runs.
Just walk the fuck away from the duopoly.
Now or never.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
He won't walk away, unfortunately.
The man may be the Energizer Bunny, but he is also a one-trick pony. He's not changing.
To put it bluntly
it's the only way I would support him in any way.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Or...
this could be fun
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
If Bernie is such a has been,
Why are they so worried about him running? The more they harass Bernie and Tulsie, the more support they will get. Tulsi is being informed she is not acceptable to Israel, and she will not be a candidate.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
They're in a perfect position
to make the move away from the dim and duopoly.
If it doesn't happen now, I believe it will never happen.
The chances for success are low but the failure to break up the current system will be an absolute loss to all..
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Another hit job on Tulsi
This dude says that her campaign is dead on arrival. Funny how Hillary got a pass for being against SSM and many other things before she moved to the left, isn't it.
But I'm loving how many people are dead set against her and yet no one is calling them misogynists while any criticism of Warren and Harris is. Double standard anyone?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Exactly
They're going to start the smear campaigns with the candidate(s) who is (are) the greatest threat, which is a combination of policies and electoral viability.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Oh. I didn't know she was running
for an office in the Israeli government.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Perhaps this is all a setup
and prepping Sanders fans for the inevitable which Sanders himself will verify. I believe he said himself that he would enter "if there was not another progressive candidate" or something like that. Which obviously gives him an out if he decides to back a certain other progressive and task his merry band of followers to vote for the new democratic party progressive leader.
I mean come on, the dude will be 79 on election day, he isn't going to run and he can't win if he does.
It is over and Bernie supporters should decide whether they're going to stay with the party or not.
Once again
if he supports the dim party he's done.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Bernie will impact 2020
one way or another.
I don't expect he runs becuz he likely sees no path to victory, but I totally expect he'll be out there on the campaign trail moving candidates ever Leftward. And I wouldn't doubt that The Bern gets more cheers than whoever is on stage with him.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Moving candidates leftward
And by that you mean, what comes out of their mouths?
Because let's be honest, we all know that when push comes to shove, whatever an individual candidate says -- or maybe, on some level, even believes -- will be devoured, digested, and spit out by the capital-D Democratic party. How'd that watered-down 2016 platform go over?
Talk is cheap and
no one made talk more worthless than Obama. Not interested in what people say. I want a track record to back it up.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
That's about the size of it.
1. The decision of who the Democratic nominee is lies entirely with the Big Donors, and that is being decided right now. Rumor has it that they have already hammered out some sort of for-profit concoction to replace Single Payer.
2. None of the Donors will tolerate a "Progressive" at the top of the ticket. They could see Big Joe teamed with a Centrist Progressive riding shotgun.
3. In fixing the Party Rules after 2016, the Committee actually rewrote them deceptively to make it even easier to jettison candidates like Bernie Sanders.
As I underestand it, the same operatives who rigged the 2016 election were put in charge of reforming the Democratic Party for future presidential elections. Progressives were not given representation in the Unity Reform Commission.
Progressives wanted them to get rid of superdelegates and it looked like that would happen. But if you read down further, the superdelegates appear in force during the second ballot. By retaining the superdelegates for the second ballot, all theirpower is preserved. Not only do you have additional delegates voting for the establishment candidate, but it creates a perception that bleeds into the pledged delegate count. The media reports the total superdelegate count, making it appear that the establishment candidate has a ton of superdelegate endorsements. It suddenly looks as if the establishment candidates are far ahead of insurgent candidates. This suppresses turnout.
The Unity Reform Commission also decided to get rid of the caucuses. Why? Bernie got more than half of his wins in caucuses in 2016. Now they are throwing them out and replacing them with primaries.
They slipped in another new rule: Any candidate who wants to run as a Democrat inside the party must first sign a loyalty pledge. The DNC chair will then decide if that candidate has been sufficiently faithful to the party. If the Party loyalty isn't loud and clear, the DNC can deny them the right to run as a Democrat on the ballot.
The Democratic Party deceived the People in many ways after 2016. Reforming the Democratic Party is not a question of putting honest people with integrity into party leadership roles. The Party is a complex a system. Within the Democratic Party there are structural incentives toward serving major corporations, serving powerful donors, and being a conservative force by backing Blue Dog Democrats in swing districts.
Bernie Sanders is arguably the incumbent leader of the Left, the most energized segment of the national electorate — and perhaps the largest. The Democratic Party intends to deceive the Left politically and to deny them an identity. The Party Establishment will never allow Bernie Sanders to become President. They will cheat him again. It’s going to be a repeat of 2016.”
@Pluto's Republic Democratic party knife in the back
And mandatory 401K's to replace Social Security. They are already on board with means testing SS or a 21% cut in benefits three years from now. Perfect opportunity for Wall Street to get it's claws into that big beautiful stream of cash.
Yes, there is a crisis. It can be saved by a number of simple fixes. But then Wall Street couldn't get their greedy beaks into it.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Can you give me some sites for the SocSec plans?
It would be useful to know who is proposing what. I don't expect the Congress-whores to do anything about it; but some street demonstrations might be useful. Great video of body armored cops beating little old ladies.
Being floated by "news commentators"
and various brokerage houses.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Capitalism is the answer to every question but one.
There is no mystery in the Democratic Party platform, nor is it a great feat to predict what policies will be promoted across time. What you describe with Social Security and 401Ks is perceived by all constitutiants of the Party as policies that lead to the greatest social good — as in "the tide that lifts all boats." The Party believes they have a solution that maintains the capitalist engine of the economy, while providing the best possible outcome for a secure retirement. Both Parties share the same Primary Directive **Universal Capitalism.**
Now, if you are not on board with the fundamentals of this ideology, then you are not a constitutiant of the Democratic Party. You may not know why you are there. Americans have been brainwashed their entire lives to loathe all other working ideologies and even to use them as pejoratives. Any potential crisis of consciousness is thus averted in advance.
If an intellectual conflict (or crash) does occur in an individual, the People have been trained to conform with the perceived majority, who always know best. There is safety in numbers and security is thus restored. The Parties are very secure with this psychological arrangement, but it is not completely foolproof so they remain ever vigilant. The true engine of growth for the Democratic Party is the dellusion and denial of the Progressives. Ever hopeful, always disappointed, blame misdirected. Hope recharged by young congressional action figures. Restart cycle.
It's instructive to look at how the Whigs were replaced by the Republicans. It essentially happened overnight on the first try. Oh, there were constant take-over attempts by start-up parties with different names — like "Liberty" — and different primary directives. None gained traction. Then one year, the term "Republican" popped up with "abolition" as its designated Directive — and the Whigs simply vanished.
It was random. It was all in the timing. Although Victor Hugo would argue that, "An idea whose time has come is the most powerful force in the world."
My intuition tells me to look for words like "people", "workers", "fair", "united", and "tomorrow" — and pay attention when they pop up. What does your intuition say?
Oh. I didn't realize they'd done this:
The Unity Reform Commission also decided to get rid of the caucuses.
Well, as fun as the hijinks in Nebraska were, there's no denying Arizona went smoother. So much better when all you have to deal with is code.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Big Al He said he will run if
He said he will run if there's a grassroots call for him to run and if he thinks he's the person most likely to beat Trump.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Levenson, the author of this piece...
...is very much "in-the-tank" for Biden (whose media team is headquartered out of Boston) and, to a somewhat lesser extent, Warren (and, maybe even Deval Patrick, if need be). All you have to do is read Levenson's prior work to understand this. (I've been following Levenson for awhile now.) The fact that his efforts align with Marky Markos' limo liberal views is just a matter of convenience. Levenson = a very malleable tool for the Democratic Party's status quo.
"Freedom is something that dies unless it's used." --Hunter S. Thompson
What Bernie actually said
was that it wasn't about him, and if no one takes up the banner he would have failed. Specifically about 2020 he would only run if no one else has a chance to win. Well Warren dropped the ball (if she ever actually wanted to carry it) and it's too early for Tulsi. He will run, but as a Democrat - at least at first.
Bernie seems to be afraid that if he runs as an independent the corruptocrat will draw enough votes to cost him the election. This would destroy progressivism like 2000 destroyed the Greens (I know it was really the Democrats and not the Greens)I think he's wrong. He would win a 3 way race, but the stakes (a Trump reelection) are almost as high as allowing a quisling corruptocrat to instill a fascist regime hiding behind identity politics. The bet is easy for me, but I'm just some guy sitting at a keyboard yelling "Put it all on Beetlebaum!" it's not in my power to bet.
I think the corruptocrats will force his hand. They have already made it clear that they are going to steal the nomination. The only question is if Bernie thinks that his organization is strong enough for him to go independent now or wait until he riles up the disaffected Democrats and the honesty-or-nothing independents by playing a few cards in the D primaries.
On to Biden since 1973
yep. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
To my way of thinking, the perfect solution sans Bernie
is for Trump to win re-election and for the Dems to take the Senate and keep the House without a veto-proof majority in either Chamber. That would effectively give us stalemate. What could be better than none of those crooks being able to pass any legislation? No news is good news as they say. Any compromise struck on anything would expose both sides for the lying crooks they are. Stalemate... a great goal.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
They will collaborate on big donor's cash cows.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Which is perfect for TPTB.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Not without baring all their asses.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Brilliant.
I cannot think of a better solution under the circumstances.
(The truth is, it was the same sort of soution used in 2016.)
Stalemate, shut down and "state of emergency"
The Enabling Acts without even the Reichstag charade.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
We have to remember
that the lame stream M$M is all about regurgitating the will of their Corporate Masters, and the corporate masters are Still nervous, scared right to death of Bernie.
Not Bernie the politician. Hardly. But what Bernie can - and will - bring should he run. Which, of course, is directing candidates Ever Leftward whether he gets left in the dust or not.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
With all due respect
The Democratic Party itself is beholden to its own Corporate Masters.
To quote @Pluto's Republic:
Bernie running as a Democrat solves nothing, even if he were to win.
@WaterLily No -@WaterLily Were he to
No - Were he to run & win as a Dem he believes he can rebuild the party from ground up. Not sure I believe him, but I believe he's smarter than I am.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Whether he wins or
not, Bernie simply on
the trail moves the entire country Left. Is moving the country Left.
Well, except for the 38% Repub base.
It really doesn't matter about the Beltway Establishment and their masters, the Oligarchy.
Not a damned thing we can do about the masters or their Beltway puppets, but they're no more powerful than the masses (or elected Dems) allow them to be. Even Darth Vader got his. They will get theirs. Bernie a big part. Hell, the Only part. If he had any Effing help at all...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
#Bernie2020
sometimes I think it's we who are the sheepdogs. We have been so bludgeoned that we can barely parse out meaning, intent, what is authentic and what is not.
Sanders is the person for this job. Because he will not (and I said this over and over again during 2016) be tied to Congress but will use his influence with the citizen to move us toward social and economic justice.
I think it's clear: he's done more on making single payer ACCESS to health care not only thinkable, but people start understanding it is achievable. It is more than Obama or Pelosi did by light years. Look at the wage increases. Look at the people, the voters the citizens, he's activated and motivated... like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez.
What exhausts me is the simple mindedness ... Sanders show every day (literally every day) why he is fit (both physically and mentally) to step into the Oval Office.
BTW... your "sheepdog" drumbeat is part of what you're protesting against in your piece. Maybe more damaging in your defense (and he doesn't need it believe me) as a "reasonable" person.
I'm not buying it.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
I just did two long threads on the topic of sheepdog
Pardon me for noting that you show up in this thread completely unaware of what happened on this topic on this board a week ago.
The first thread was I am really annoyed about the beatification of AOC.
In that 200+ comment thread, the entire topic of sheepdogging was discussed at great length. In that thread, people's attitudes towards Bernie were clearly expressed. For example,
To summarize, people would like to believe in Bernie, but he just caved in to the party - of which he is not even a member. He caved to the extent that he wouldn't even support the lawsuit against the DNC for fraud. (The lawsuit where the initial attorney died. The lawsuit which the DNC defended by saying they had no obligation to be neutral.) Crickets from Bernie on that.
So, I respect his domestic policy (not his foreign policy), but he has shown he will absolutely not rock the boat about the DNC. He is a sheepdog.
So when you come along with:
My reply is to go read the beatification thread.
The second thread, How to Read the Western Media, also discusses sheepdogs and the corporate media:
Your comment seems to have no awareness of where my "drumbeat" came from.
First, you seem to think I would not accept Bernie as fit for office. I have never said anything about his fitness. I have just said that he caved in and is now a sheepdog. That said, the prestige media telling a viable candidate to "not run" is beyond the pale in this country. I defended Bernie from that attack, in case you didn't notice. But that doesn't change my opinion about him.
Second, your frame simply assumes that I believe that the election system in this country is anything but a corrupt Kabuki theater, funded by a bunch of billionaires, orchestrated by the corporate media, and gatekept by the DNC. What they did to Bernie in 2016 burst the illusion of democracy for me. IMHO, the entire Democratic Party is nothing more than one branch of a psyop. (See the How to Read thread.)
Short answer: Read the two threads. Because I do not want to take another spin in that barrel so soon.
I didn't ask the first time I saw this mentioned
So now I will, what is the "Bill Hicks" movie?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Its a line from his standup routine on the US presidency
EDIT: Sorry. Not JFK assasination routine; rather the US presidency routine. Fixed it. Text of quote is accurate. END EDIT
Bill Hicks explains the US presidency
Ah, yes
I've heard that called the Zapruder film. Similar sentiment. Slightly different take. Thanks for replying.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Zapruder film was just taken from street level in the crowd
The Zapruder film is a real film, although it sat in government custody for many years before the public actually saw it. Its vantage point is simply someone in the crowd lining the parade route.
The Bill Hicks film is a joke. It makes up the idea that there was a movie taken from the grassy knoll.
Gotcha
Also, wasn't the Zapruder film used by the Warren Commission to "confirm" what angle the shot that killed Kennedy came from?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
According to Wikipedia, the Warren Com. did use it.
As I said, the film disappeared inside Life Magazine for several years. The Warren report came out in 1964. Garrison subpoened the film in 1968 for his investigation.
This *is* the division in the caucus:
Second, your frame simply assumes that I believe that the election system in this country is anything but a corrupt Kabuki theater, funded by a bunch of billionaires, orchestrated by the corporate media, and gatekept by the DNC. What they did to Bernie in 2016 burst the illusion of democracy for me. IMHO, the entire Democratic Party is nothing more than one branch of a psyop.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I don't buy the "sheepdog"
bull$h!t either. Nor do I
buy the "Bernie sold out" bull$h!t.
Believe that b.s. if you must, but in my lonesome view Bernie played 2016 (and beyond) about as well as ANY politician could have played it and Still be relevant, still be in the game.
And if there are those that think he isn't relevant in 2020, and you know who you are, just pay attention. Bernie about to reveal just how relevant - or unrelevant (sic) - he is.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
We have long since agreed to disagree on AOC
Now we will have to agree to disagree about Bernie
Bernie sold out, shut up, and sat down. I and others have recited the evidence for that time after time in many threads, and all you have is this assertion.
Elizabeth Warren, too
...to her everlastig disgrace.
@Anja Geitz @arendt My
My interpretation is that Bernie lived to fight another day. Had he not cooperated, I don't think he'd be positioned as he is now.
I do grant that he appeared as if they read him some sort of riot act at the convention (and that hole in his face was extremely disturbing to me).
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
His position has been compromised
I bear him no ill will, but it is clear to me that he is under the control of the enemy.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
This is where I'm at, too.
I also bear him no ill will; I believe he still fights for what he can; but the Ds are only going to let him go so far. So if he runs as a D, I can't (won't) vote for him again.
Me neither, actually.
If Bernie somehow thinks
2020 will be different than 2016
then he's dumber than I think he is.
If he runs as a Dem then he's just in it to move the country Left.
Which doesn't hurt either. But in my less-than-humble opinion Bernie is the Only one that can win.
But only if he runs as an Indy.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Exactly.
"Sold Out" my ass. He fulfilled an obligation to "support" HRC, and did his -ahem- "best" to do just that. Hillary's undies still bristling. And as MsGrin points out, had he not played it as he did we wouldn't be talking about him in 2020. As it stands... Bernie has his cred, his integrity intact, despite the naysayers, deniers from 2016, his popularity as popular as ever. Who else from 2016 can say that?? Exactly.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
And as for AOC,
"Two House Democratic
sources compared her use of
Twitter to Donald Trump’s. Just as congressional
Republicans constantly withhold criticism
of the president out of fear he’ll unleash a tweet at them, some Democrats have done the same with Ocasio-Cortez.
'People are afraid of her,' said one senior Democratic aide."
Just another fake progressive...
Indeed.
Hell, she could flame out in a matter of weeks or months, vanquished to the Bronx for the rest of her life. But one thing's for sure. She ain't playing.
And if AOC is "just another faux progressive," fauxgressive, give me another 200 of her.
Becuz, sure as fuck the "real ones" haven't accomplished d!ck in 20 years.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
AOC is a corporate creature
How else can the media barrage on her behalf (especially as compared to the trashing Bernie got in early 2016, when he was almost as obscure to most Americans as AOC) be explained?
Let's see. Rasmussen - a polling organization that is an outlier to the right. Runs a poll about a situation that is factually impossible (she simply is not old enough to run).
How can you possibly think the continuous barrage of free corporate media/pollster puff pieces would ever be given to a genuine leftie? What possible reason does anyone have for running such a counter-factual poll, except to burninsh AOC's standing amongst the sheeple?
I understand that the lightbulb hasn't gone off for you yet. So I'm just going to put up a new fact about AOC every time you say the same old boilerplate.
Thank you
It's a big job but someone has to do it...
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
After reading your multi-comment interaction below...
I would say it is you who is "doing the hard job".
Well done.
becuz...
becuz the party is filled
with FDR JFK liberals!
"Fake" or not, this girl walks the walk.
That's more than I can say for Beto, Kamala and all the rest.
She was recruited by Justice Democrats, and there's not one Bernie "Group" that I like, or would join, including these yahoos, so there is some "concern" that she's being "propped up."
She didn't get out to protest the pipeline on her bartender tips.
But I don't care. She's got Primarying on her mind, and her fellow Dems are nervous, thinking they might be on her list, and thinking about buying a pair or two of Negan's $h!ttin' Pants™ before 2020 gets here. And I can't say as I blame 'em. Everyone whines that nobody's doing anything to cure what ails us, and when a "fake" progressive attempts to do just that they whine that she's a fake. Well wah. Give me 200 fakes like her any day of the week!
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1pGKOufZrI]
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Call me when you are willing to have a discussion...
instead of regurgitating boilerplate talking points. That is, when you are willing to address the facts about AOC that I and others keep putting in front of you.
You don't react to these facts. You just keep catapulting the propaganda. That is the tactic of people who want to control the narrative instead of having a discussion.
It was tiresome months ago. It is now beyond tiresome.
Didn't Marcos
just indicate how relevant Bernie is with his remark " an unfortunately flawed front runner" ?
That has to bern Hillary's ass a bit.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Ha! yeah, even kos
still acknowledges Bernie
as the same "flawed" (Blacks won't vote for him) candidate he was in 2016.
I suppose that says something.
And, yes, Her ass still burning from "Feeling the Bern."
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I don't know why you interpret my position on Bernie
as an attack on him. I think he is an extremely well-intentioned person with a strong moral core who did what he did entirely out of disinterested and altruistic reasons. He simply couldn't stand up to the level of threat the establishment can provide. I probably couldn't either. Remember that the CIA is in this manipulation game up to their eyeballs, and have been since 1983.
I don't get why people think that all of these discussions are attacks on individual morality. Individual morality is important, but of course, like everything individual, it's enmeshed in a system. This system sucks. We don't know how to stop the bullies. It would be ridiculous to expect one person with a small staff to be able to successfully oppose such a system, whether he's running for president and has the love of the people or not.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Excellent comment.
Thanks. (rueful smile)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Care to parse this out?
I am unclear how you came to that conclusion given what we saw in 2016 when the electoral power structure gleefully rammed a 2x4 up our ass as they appropriated control of Bernie
Or is that take a bit too "simple-minded" for you?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Well, yeah, that happened.
But he still moved
the country Left.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Really?
The country has been moved left? In what way?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The Blue Wave
for one. And, yeah,
I get where all the Libs ask, "What Blue Wave,"
Where are the flipped seats??
But the Fact is, 2018's Blue Wave was bigger than the 2010 Tea Party Tsunami.
Yes, bigger!
Fact.
The only reason - Only reason - 'we' didn't flip more red seats was jerrymandering.
'We' cast more votes than the Tea Party did.
And, as for flipping red seats, here in my beloved New Yawk 'we' flipped enough red seats for a solid majority in the state Senate for, like, the first time since Bubba was prez.
So, yeah, Bernie's Army has turned the country Left.
And will happen again in 2020 whether Bernie runs or not.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
An electoral game of musical chairs
is how you are defining moving the country left? Gosh, and here I thought you meant the actualization of economic policies.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
It starts with that
electoral game.
How do you think The Right
did it?? They flipped 1,000 seats
from blue to red.
Is happening quickly here in NY - Mario Jr. scared $h!tless that he doesn't have a Republicon Senate to hide behind, will actually have to Veto some real progressive legislation, showing his real DINO side. So, yeah, Zoe, flipped seats! Imagine. If you don't think flipped seats mean anything then why bother to hold elections? Becuz it wasn't just NY state. A bunch of states flipped a Ton of red seats. Maybe not enough for a majority, but enough to indicate a change of heart in this country from red to blue, from Right to Left. We can thank Bernie. Certainly wasn't Kamala or Beto or Jilly or Pocahontas or... or... or... Was Bernie.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
In the last 30 years we've been playing that game
We have neither influenced economic legislation or brought about any significant change that could be characterized as "Lefty" issues.
So, please let's not have that conversation where you tell me that's where it all begins when every indicator points to the utter fallacy of that premise. Evidenced not only by a power structure that has control over the entire electoral process, but what those ruthless war mongering bastards did in 2016 and will do again and again.
How about we agree to disagree and not continue have these unproductive conversations?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
You said it more clearly and more neutrally than I did
I am done wasting my breath.
More important is the comparison to Obama.
Obama had a larger populist power base even than Bernie. It was an organized power base, too, 63 million strong. About 1/5 of the people who sign up to an organization are actually ready to work, in my experience, so that means around 12-13 million people organized and ready to go. And obviously, Obama had the microphone; he had the bully pulpit.
That didn't work out for us too well. Are we assuming that it didn't work simply because Obama was never on our side, and that if we had somebody truly on our side in that office that everything would come up roses?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Good point
But I still don't see our government in the floral procurement business.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Only if Markos Moulitsas is involved
He's great at buying flowers.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm at the point I can't care
about ulterior motives. If what he says helps me or my family I'm on board. So far the rest aren't saying anything that would help me, or are too timid about what they stand for. He may let me down or disappoint me, but I don't think he lies. Maybe a viable 3rd party will come into being, but that's kind of a chicken/egg kind of thing right now.
I think he'll do Iowa and New Hampshire. He knows the knives will be out for him. He spoiled Clintons anointing as queen and gave us Trump and whatever else the democrats can throw at him. The dems would love not having to address his ideas in debates. He can keep pushing the dems left, and maybe he can find someone to pass the baton to.
He gave us Trump?
The voters gave us Trump. They voted for Trump as the lesser evil.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
No, didn't mean
I thought that, it's what the TOP dems think. Gee, stuff looks ok when I post it. Must have a defective keyboard or something.
OK, recced you after the explanation.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Hillary and Bill and the media gave us Trump.
They just expected him to job at the end, and he didn't.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
bing! exactly.
I don't know if Bernie can
finish what he started in 2016,
but he most certainly can push the party
ever Leftward.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
In what sense have the Dems been pushed left?
Seems to me their reaction to Bernie was to attempt to fit him with a dog collar (be our volunteer coordinator, Bernie!) and to purge everyone who even faintly agreed with his ideas from the DNC. And, of course, to continue to use the media to shit on him and his ideas.
Please show me what you mean when you say "moved them to the left." Do you mean that he kept the words "Medicare for All" in the media? That they actually had something of a debate on it in the Senate, even though from the beginning Sanders acknowledged the bill had no chance of passing, and even though the content of the bill looked to me more like a public option (which I'd welcome by the way) than it looks like Medicare for All?
Or is there something else I'm missing, either on the domestic or foreign policy front, where the Democrats have gone farther left than they were in Jan 2016?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I suspect they mean
Lefty issues like "raising the minimum" wage and "Medicare for all" are being mouthed by politicians and not being ridiculed or shut down by the Blue Team side of the Media.
Absent from that assertion is anything concrete beyond politicians speechifying.
Same as it ever was. Just new talking points.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
except voters aren't laughing
at Bernie anymore.
"First they laugh... "
Well, that's ended. Bernie every bit as viable - and More - in 2020 as he was in 2016.
I know! It can't be!
It is. Doesn't mean he runs, or he wins.
Just means voters have stopped laughing.
They've moved Left.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
But Wink--
the problem, for the most part, wasn't ever the voters. Do you really think that Democratic voters were the primary (pardon the pun) problem two years ago?
Bernie was great at mustering the voters. The Democratic loyalists who kept marching to a 90s DLC drumbeat of "He Can't Win" existed, of course, but then, Bernie was also (ironically)the only Democrat running who was able to peel voters away from Trump. Highly ironic, given Schumer's "We'll get two Republicans for every leftie Dem we lose" statement--it's not people like Hillary or Biden who will gain more Republican votes. All the wealthy Republicans who wanted to come over and support Democrats already have.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well, the MSM knows the tricks, I admit.
Because rather than discussing how to get money out of politics, deal with the system that's screwed, for the next 2 years we're going to be complaining about which person is going to be our standard bearer to be manipulated by the MIC.
Keeping Bernie front and center is by design. The media only runs stories for a reason. Right now the reason is that Boeing paid large amounts of money for the commercial against Bernie. Somebody at Boeing thinks its a good Idea for Bernie NOT to be on the Democratic ticket. Probably because he's the only one who can beat Trump fairly. Nobody else is going to even have a shot, as we can see from the response whenever a new corporate Dem masquerading as a progressive shows up.
When Bernie pulls out his old stump speech, he'll get the enthusiasm up... if he does, of course. Something tells me that he's less a sheep dog than the opening act. And the last thing the opening act wants to do is overshine the main event. (Last election he screwed that one up BIG time and they brought out Hillary while we were screaming for an Encore.)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Great insights.
You certainly understand our media environment.
Yes. As long as the only candidates given neutral or positive coverage are all fake liberals and corporatists, it will be a meaningless tussle to claim the mantle of Washington Generals against the Trumpian Globetrotters.
it is directly contrary to the interests of the media,
to get the money out of politics, since 80% (random made-up statistic) of the money in politics goes to the media.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Thank you.
This may sound odd, but what a refreshing comment.
It's true, simple, and obvious, but almost never discussed. To the point that people in late spring of 16 were all saying "How could Trump spend so much less money than Hillary? How could she be running out of money?" Uh, because he was getting more earned media than any candidate I've ever seen? Because the media gave him a two-billion-dollar in-kind donation?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm loving me
some " Fuking Biden is a front-runner"
Burn it down. Now.
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
We’re lucky to have Bernie as our sheep dog
As someone who has followed Bernie since the beginning and who also is a shepherd with many years of experience with sheep and sheep dogs I think Bernie is a sheep dog — but not the kind we are being led to believe. That’s because there are two kinds of sheep dogs. One is the herding dog, such as a Border Collie. But then there are the guardian sheep dogs, such as the Great Pyrenees breed. They live with the sheep night and day and the sheep are not afraid of them. At night they sleep in the middle of the flock, and when the coyotes sneak in to kill sheep the guard dog comes out and attacks the coyotes. Remember when Bernie was in the House before gays and lesbians had rights and respect and Rep. Kevin McCarthy attacked them on the House floor. Bernie came out of the flock and made a great speech supporting gays and lesbians and humiliating McCarthy. Or how about all the times he has walked the picket lines, or how he came out to support the Amazon workers and the fast food workers,and even when he saved that young woman from being run over by a car. Many politicians are running for president but only one has the courage to come out of the flock and attack the coyotes.
Vermonter
As a Shepherd that's a beautiful sentiment
But how is Bernie protecting us by lying to us? When he repeated the lies of Russiagate he relinquished his ability to lead us. Why? Because how can we trust someone who is controlled by the enemy?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
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