@wendy davis want to believe it due to lazy thinking. SO much easier to blame an immigrant who has no power at all than to actually look at just who owns us and just how many of "us" vote for our owners' wishes every single day. Scapegoating, it's what's for dinner...

#6

damned lies as statistics. but 'illegal' gets pretty tricky in my book, which is a longer story, but the only Legals are the first american indigenous, if i want to stretch a point, and i do: it's a stolen land!

but a hella lot of the undocumented pay taxes, and don' drain what's left of the social safety net, in any event. and yes, the bogus figures have been debunked year after year, but as twain said: 'a lie can circle the world ten times before the truth has time to get its pants on'. why? because people want to believe it, in this case: fear works.

@wendy davis

#8

there's a lot to unpack on your comment, but as to your 'It is not about safety for illegal aliens', i assume you'd meant 'from [raping, murdering, drug-running illegal aliens'.

first: who do you designate as 'illegal aliens' rather than 'undocumented immigrants' 'asylum seeks', etc. i need to that before i comment further on it, unless you don't come back and i just forge ahead with my assumptions later.

'soros caravans'? from what i've read and found this a.m., that's a reactionary right-wing meme, including of course, the info ward dude alex jones. good grief, gator, whassup with your belief in that?

but here are some opinions on why they're being stopped at the border, first from justsecurity.org: , a few bits:

"On November 9, in response to a large caravan of migrants from Central America slowly traveling through Mexico towards the U.S. border, President Donald Trump’s administration issued a proclamation seeking to forbid migrants who cross the U.S. border anywhere but at an official port of entry from applying for asylum.

The move is legally questionable, and civil rights groups quickly sued to stop it. On Monday night, a federal judge issued a temporary nationwide restraining order barring enforcement of the new policy, saying it likely violated federal law. The federal asylum statute specifically says that anyone who arrives in the United States “whether or not at a designated port of arrival…may apply for asylum.”

"But even as it tells asylum-seekers they must go to a port of entry, the Trump administration has been turning them away from these very same ports for months, claiming that they are “at capacity.” According to both immigration lawyers and a report from the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), this has led some migrants to attempt crossing unlawfully." [snip]

"Based on an investigation by the Project On Government Oversight (POGO)—including a review of recent court documents, government reports and statistics, and interviews—DHS’s claim is disingenuous at best. The evidence shows that the increasing wait times at ports of entry are not a function of a sudden surge of migrants, but of deliberate policy decisions by the Trump Administration to detain as many asylum seekers as possible for as long as possible.

The cumulative impact of the administration’s policies and practices is to leave migrants fleeing extreme violence and poverty in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador—including a large and growing number of families with young children—trapped in vulnerable situations on the Mexican side of the border, where crime and corruption are rife."

long, long, snip, then this section and its beginning paragraph:

A Dangerous Limbo at the Border

"After Trump ended family separations in response to public outcry, the lines outside some ports of entry shortened or disappeared for a time, but immigration attorneys began to see disturbing new tactics to deny asylum-seekers access."

later

"Asylum-seekers waiting in Mexico also face the threat of violence and kidnapping by gangs and cartels. The situation is particularly bad in the Rio Grande Valley. The U.S. State Department has issued a “do not travel” warning for the Mexican state of Tamaulipas—the same warning it issues for countries that are active war zones. The State Department urges U.S. citizens to “reconsider travel” to most other Mexican border states. Cartels often specifically target migrants for kidnapping, demanding ransom from family members. Migrants who cannot pay are sometimes killed. Notoriously, the Zetas cartel massacred 72 migrants in San Fernando, Tamaulipas in 2010, and at least 193 bodies were found in mass graves in the same city in 2011."

"As a result of the Trump administration’s opposition to “catch and release,” ICE is detaining more people than ever before, including an increasing number of asylum seekers. The agency reported to Congress in October that it was detaining an average of 44,631 people per day—about 10,000 more than was typical during the last fiscal year of the Obama administration. The U.S. government is also detaining a record number of unaccompanied migrant children in shelters run by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) because of policy changes that have slowed releases from shelters. According to the New York Times, the number of migrant children in shelters quintupled over the last year, to over 13,000 as of September 30.

As HHS shelters and ICE detention centers have filled, CBP has held people in its custody for longer and longer periods before transferring them. CBP detention cells, whether they are located at ports of entry or at border patrol stations, are not designed to hold people overnight. Most are either concrete boxes or chain link cages, with no furniture other than concrete, metal, or wooden benches. Detainees commonly call the CBP cells “hieleras,” meaning freezers, or “perreras,” meaning dog kennels. Medical care is minimal or nonexistent, and detainees do not receive sleeping mats or bedding other than a mylar blanket."

and i DO weep for them, as most are fleeing the results of US-approved putsches of elected leaders in nicaragua and honduras, drug cartels (guns for drugs to amerika), etc.

from wola.org, feb.1: 'Fact Sheet: U.S. Immigration and Central American Asylum Seekers'

also from wola.org: 'Civil Society Groups: Mexico Should Reject U.S. Deal that Forces Asylum Seekers to Wait in Mexico'; it opens:

"On December 21, 2018, the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) and seven other international civil society organizations sent the following letter to Mexican officials expressing concerns over the so-called “Remain in Mexico” agreement between the United States and Mexico.

The plan that would break with long-standing U.S. asylum policy by requiring asylum seekers at the U.S.-Mexico border to wait in Mexico while their cases are processed in U.S. courts:

(then their letter to hopey-changey AMLO, et.al.)

your 'redresses' plans i'll need to comment on after some chores.

@wendy davis

what you said. Looks like I missed a few head shakers in AE's comment.

#8

there's a lot to unpack on your comment, but as to your 'It is not about safety for illegal aliens', i assume you'd meant 'from [raping, murdering, drug-running illegal aliens'.

first: who do you designate as 'illegal aliens' rather than 'undocumented immigrants' 'asylum seeks', etc. i need to that before i comment further on it, unless you don't come back and i just forge ahead with my assumptions later.

'soros caravans'? from what i've read and found this a.m., that's a reactionary right-wing meme, including of course, the info ward dude alex jones. good grief, gator, whassup with your belief in that?

but here are some opinions on why they're being stopped at the border, first from justsecurity.org: , a few bits:

"On November 9, in response to a large caravan of migrants from Central America slowly traveling through Mexico towards the U.S. border, President Donald Trump’s administration issued a proclamation seeking to forbid migrants who cross the U.S. border anywhere but at an official port of entry from applying for asylum.

The move is legally questionable, and civil rights groups quickly sued to stop it. On Monday night, a federal judge issued a temporary nationwide restraining order barring enforcement of the new policy, saying it likely violated federal law. The federal asylum statute specifically says that anyone who arrives in the United States “whether or not at a designated port of arrival…may apply for asylum.”

"But even as it tells asylum-seekers they must go to a port of entry, the Trump administration has been turning them away from these very same ports for months, claiming that they are “at capacity.” According to both immigration lawyers and a report from the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), this has led some migrants to attempt crossing unlawfully." [snip]

"Based on an investigation by the Project On Government Oversight (POGO)—including a review of recent court documents, government reports and statistics, and interviews—DHS’s claim is disingenuous at best. The evidence shows that the increasing wait times at ports of entry are not a function of a sudden surge of migrants, but of deliberate policy decisions by the Trump Administration to detain as many asylum seekers as possible for as long as possible.

The cumulative impact of the administration’s policies and practices is to leave migrants fleeing extreme violence and poverty in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador—including a large and growing number of families with young children—trapped in vulnerable situations on the Mexican side of the border, where crime and corruption are rife."

long, long, snip, then this section and its beginning paragraph:

A Dangerous Limbo at the Border

"After Trump ended family separations in response to public outcry, the lines outside some ports of entry shortened or disappeared for a time, but immigration attorneys began to see disturbing new tactics to deny asylum-seekers access."

later

"Asylum-seekers waiting in Mexico also face the threat of violence and kidnapping by gangs and cartels. The situation is particularly bad in the Rio Grande Valley. The U.S. State Department has issued a “do not travel” warning for the Mexican state of Tamaulipas—the same warning it issues for countries that are active war zones. The State Department urges U.S. citizens to “reconsider travel” to most other Mexican border states. Cartels often specifically target migrants for kidnapping, demanding ransom from family members. Migrants who cannot pay are sometimes killed. Notoriously, the Zetas cartel massacred 72 migrants in San Fernando, Tamaulipas in 2010, and at least 193 bodies were found in mass graves in the same city in 2011."

"As a result of the Trump administration’s opposition to “catch and release,” ICE is detaining more people than ever before, including an increasing number of asylum seekers. The agency reported to Congress in October that it was detaining an average of 44,631 people per day—about 10,000 more than was typical during the last fiscal year of the Obama administration. The U.S. government is also detaining a record number of unaccompanied migrant children in shelters run by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) because of policy changes that have slowed releases from shelters. According to the New York Times, the number of migrant children in shelters quintupled over the last year, to over 13,000 as of September 30.

As HHS shelters and ICE detention centers have filled, CBP has held people in its custody for longer and longer periods before transferring them. CBP detention cells, whether they are located at ports of entry or at border patrol stations, are not designed to hold people overnight. Most are either concrete boxes or chain link cages, with no furniture other than concrete, metal, or wooden benches. Detainees commonly call the CBP cells “hieleras,” meaning freezers, or “perreras,” meaning dog kennels. Medical care is minimal or nonexistent, and detainees do not receive sleeping mats or bedding other than a mylar blanket."

and i DO weep for them, as most are fleeing the results of US-approved putsches of elected leaders in nicaragua and honduras, drug cartels (guns for drugs to amerika), etc.

from wola.org, feb.1: 'Fact Sheet: U.S. Immigration and Central American Asylum Seekers'

also from wola.org: 'Civil Society Groups: Mexico Should Reject U.S. Deal that Forces Asylum Seekers to Wait in Mexico'; it opens:

"On December 21, 2018, the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) and seven other international civil society organizations sent the following letter to Mexican officials expressing concerns over the so-called “Remain in Mexico” agreement between the United States and Mexico.

The plan that would break with long-standing U.S. asylum policy by requiring asylum seekers at the U.S.-Mexico border to wait in Mexico while their cases are processed in U.S. courts:

(then their letter to hopey-changey AMLO, et.al.)

your 'redresses' plans i'll need to comment on after some chores.

@wendy davis A semantic war of words--but only at the fringes.

The pro-immigration forces need a better role model than AOC. Data which you present in your comment were new to me.

ICE: Immigration control and enforcement. This is too often conflated with Border Patrol. They function separately but better functional integration would surely benefit all concerned. ICE seems equated with the Stasi--breaking down doors, removing children from their parents--at least until recently. But anti-immigration reform elements should make a case for the rarity of such events if they can.

On the other hand the pro-immigration forces communicate as poorly as Chuckles and Nancy. I recently read an article, two pages long, fact-laden which corrects, apparently the distorted Trump presentation of immigration realities. I was unaware of much of the information presented. This information would help the public understand the issues more completely.

More, not less, administrative judges and support staff are needed--perhaps double the current numbers. Housing should be made available to those awaiting disposition of better quality than your comment described. As far as slowing the process purposefully by Trump--show me the data, not that I doubt you are incorrect but I'll give credence to that observation if backed up the statistical data.

79% of the American public is pro-border wall--even many democrats. Several congressional Dems are voicing support for the wall. My essay yesterday revealed that lying neoliberal Chris Cuomo supported the border wall! Dems are listening to the people--or at least pretending to do so.

Did George Soros, through some of his hundred NGOs contribute to any or all of the caravans? I can't tell you. But I have seen videos of people in the caravan being handed money (pesos?) by gun-wearing individuals. Who supplied the money? Who supplied the clothing? Who provided the transit? Without further information, the part Soros plays in this directly or indirectly is speculative. But for a man (if such a psychopath can be so described) who espouses Open Borders across the world NOT to be involved in this societally-damaging enterprise would be most amazing.

#8

there's a lot to unpack on your comment, but as to your 'It is not about safety for illegal aliens', i assume you'd meant 'from [raping, murdering, drug-running illegal aliens'.

first: who do you designate as 'illegal aliens' rather than 'undocumented immigrants' 'asylum seeks', etc. i need to that before i comment further on it, unless you don't come back and i just forge ahead with my assumptions later.

'soros caravans'? from what i've read and found this a.m., that's a reactionary right-wing meme, including of course, the info ward dude alex jones. good grief, gator, whassup with your belief in that?

but here are some opinions on why they're being stopped at the border, first from justsecurity.org: , a few bits:

"On November 9, in response to a large caravan of migrants from Central America slowly traveling through Mexico towards the U.S. border, President Donald Trump’s administration issued a proclamation seeking to forbid migrants who cross the U.S. border anywhere but at an official port of entry from applying for asylum.

The move is legally questionable, and civil rights groups quickly sued to stop it. On Monday night, a federal judge issued a temporary nationwide restraining order barring enforcement of the new policy, saying it likely violated federal law. The federal asylum statute specifically says that anyone who arrives in the United States “whether or not at a designated port of arrival…may apply for asylum.”

"But even as it tells asylum-seekers they must go to a port of entry, the Trump administration has been turning them away from these very same ports for months, claiming that they are “at capacity.” According to both immigration lawyers and a report from the Inspector General for the Department of Homeland Security (DHS), this has led some migrants to attempt crossing unlawfully." [snip]

"Based on an investigation by the Project On Government Oversight (POGO)—including a review of recent court documents, government reports and statistics, and interviews—DHS’s claim is disingenuous at best. The evidence shows that the increasing wait times at ports of entry are not a function of a sudden surge of migrants, but of deliberate policy decisions by the Trump Administration to detain as many asylum seekers as possible for as long as possible.

The cumulative impact of the administration’s policies and practices is to leave migrants fleeing extreme violence and poverty in Honduras, Guatemala, and El Salvador—including a large and growing number of families with young children—trapped in vulnerable situations on the Mexican side of the border, where crime and corruption are rife."

long, long, snip, then this section and its beginning paragraph:

A Dangerous Limbo at the Border

"After Trump ended family separations in response to public outcry, the lines outside some ports of entry shortened or disappeared for a time, but immigration attorneys began to see disturbing new tactics to deny asylum-seekers access."

later

"Asylum-seekers waiting in Mexico also face the threat of violence and kidnapping by gangs and cartels. The situation is particularly bad in the Rio Grande Valley. The U.S. State Department has issued a “do not travel” warning for the Mexican state of Tamaulipas—the same warning it issues for countries that are active war zones. The State Department urges U.S. citizens to “reconsider travel” to most other Mexican border states. Cartels often specifically target migrants for kidnapping, demanding ransom from family members. Migrants who cannot pay are sometimes killed. Notoriously, the Zetas cartel massacred 72 migrants in San Fernando, Tamaulipas in 2010, and at least 193 bodies were found in mass graves in the same city in 2011."

"As a result of the Trump administration’s opposition to “catch and release,” ICE is detaining more people than ever before, including an increasing number of asylum seekers. The agency reported to Congress in October that it was detaining an average of 44,631 people per day—about 10,000 more than was typical during the last fiscal year of the Obama administration. The U.S. government is also detaining a record number of unaccompanied migrant children in shelters run by the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) because of policy changes that have slowed releases from shelters. According to the New York Times, the number of migrant children in shelters quintupled over the last year, to over 13,000 as of September 30.

As HHS shelters and ICE detention centers have filled, CBP has held people in its custody for longer and longer periods before transferring them. CBP detention cells, whether they are located at ports of entry or at border patrol stations, are not designed to hold people overnight. Most are either concrete boxes or chain link cages, with no furniture other than concrete, metal, or wooden benches. Detainees commonly call the CBP cells “hieleras,” meaning freezers, or “perreras,” meaning dog kennels. Medical care is minimal or nonexistent, and detainees do not receive sleeping mats or bedding other than a mylar blanket."

and i DO weep for them, as most are fleeing the results of US-approved putsches of elected leaders in nicaragua and honduras, drug cartels (guns for drugs to amerika), etc.

from wola.org, feb.1: 'Fact Sheet: U.S. Immigration and Central American Asylum Seekers'

also from wola.org: 'Civil Society Groups: Mexico Should Reject U.S. Deal that Forces Asylum Seekers to Wait in Mexico'; it opens:

"On December 21, 2018, the Washington Office on Latin America (WOLA) and seven other international civil society organizations sent the following letter to Mexican officials expressing concerns over the so-called “Remain in Mexico” agreement between the United States and Mexico.

The plan that would break with long-standing U.S. asylum policy by requiring asylum seekers at the U.S.-Mexico border to wait in Mexico while their cases are processed in U.S. courts:

(then their letter to hopey-changey AMLO, et.al.)

your 'redresses' plans i'll need to comment on after some chores.

@wendy davis
I usually have a hard time following what's being said by you and what's being pasted from articles you link to because of no box quote, different colored font, and non English. And yes, I know you crosspost. Still doesn't make it easier to follow. Not to mention the foreign languages that are mixed with English. Had to look up the word you keep calling Trump, and I live in Texico. (I eat tacos made of pastor, so I didn't know what you were calling him, other than a racist.)

I saw the speech. I read in the OP the response. The response didn't sound like they were actually denouncing anything but the wall ($$). NPR, the following day seemed only to harp on the heroin issue. They said most heroin gets in through other points of entry, not border crossings. Of course it does, just ask the CIA lol. Still, some how, he is the racist pig, but they are not.

What I've not seen addressed is how a huge group of people seem to have somehow managed to organically organize and travel together for thousands of miles without someone doing the organizing behind the scenes. It's as if it all magically happened. Think of a musical where everyone around town stops what they're doing, hears people singing outside, joins them in song and they all start happily walking together in the same direction, their numbers growing exponentially along the way. Something is certainly not adding up.

Like I said in my original comment, it ain't about brown, it's about money. They want us either dead, or working for free. I still want to know who's behind the mass exodus down south, too.

#11

well said. but the reason i called the puerco a racist/racialist was down to how he'd smeared the asylum seekers in his vile speech. see the OP.