Scheer & Frank Discuss The Democrats Shift Away From Income Inequality
Stumbled over this discussion between Robert Scheer and Thomas Frank over at Truthdig: Scheer and Frank talk about Democrats shift away from addressing income inequality It's an audio but the transcript is provided.
I would say the major takeaway is that a triangulating centrist Democrat President is more effective at delivering Republican policies than a Republican President.
Aside from his other policy transgressions, apparently Bill Clinton was scheming with Newt privately about privatizing Social Security and the Clintons crowed about they had gotten policies through that the Reagans themselves couldn't. Also discussed is that Republicans were more effective at punishing white collar miscreants while Democrats under Obama gave it a complete pass.
You have to start wondering if "lesser evil" IS the "greater evil" if it is the instrument for delivering the policies of the greater evil that they couldn't do on their own.
Comments
I was reading about that yesterday
in this post: http://caucus99percent.com/content/my-back-pages-1-want-steal-your-socia...
I knew Bill was a scummy guy, but I somehow missed his whole push to privatize social security. For some reason, I had THAT pegged as a W move, which kind of depresses me because every time I turn around, I find I'm not as informed as I think I am. And I have no doubt that one of Hillary's goals would be to finish what they started way back then--it'll make their Goldman Sachs masters very, VERY happy to get their hands on more taxpayer largesse to play roulette with.
That is a great essay which I had missed
Thanks so much for linking it. This is going to be our great struggle in the next administration.
But I am coming to the really horrible realization that it may have a greater chance of success with a Democratic President than a Republican one. No, I'm not advocating for Trump or any Republican, but it becomes clearer and clearer that we'll get more of the same and go down the same path towards inequality with Hillary Clinton.
We have a clear choice, and we are at a fork in the roads. Bernie is the guy on the path less trodden.
Robert Scheer says at the end of the interview:
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
The Scheer quote sums it up
For some reason, those who support Clinton do not and will not see those fundamental differences. I see them as vast differences which is probably why I feel absolutely zero guilt in not supporting Clinton if she gets the nomination. The one thing Obama should have taught all of us is that the establishment Democrats have no problems putting the social safety net on the negotiating table. The third rail was touched more than once and very few Dems in Congress protested. "Embrace the suck" is not acceptable in the richest country the world has ever known.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I can't find the link right now
but someone posted the other day to an essay that basically intoned Hillary was the DNC/establishment choice because she was well suited to manage our decline as a nation and gently lower our expectations. The Republicans do it faster and harsher when they're in power, but the end result is the same. And, of course, the longer we go, the less daylight there is between the R and D management styles.
I often wonder if that's because Wall Street is running out of money to play with faster than the Fed can print it so they turn to us poor peons to feed the monster the continue to unleash on the globe.
If you've noticed...
All of their money seems to be going towards buying back all their shares recently. It's almost like they know something is coming...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
The 1% does not want any benefit that goes directly to a
citizen/taxpayer without them getting their cut first - it's that simple. That's the underlying philosophy behind privatization - put the wealth of nations into the pockets of a private few.
Right now, they are not getting their cut of Social Security. You get your check right from the government. They aren't getting admin fees or transaction fees and it is driving them crazy to see that cash flow outside of their profit-taking sieve.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
THIS ^^^^ a zillion times!
ws isn't getting their cut...just how the mafia works, too :/
daylight
"And, of course, the longer we go, the less daylight there is between the R and D management styles."
Isn't that because, really, there is and always has been only one establishment? Can there, by definition, be one for each party? Is Bernie differentiating when he uses that term? There can't be two establishments because if there were one of them wouldn't be the establishment.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
The only thing that has stopped SS privatization
... under the last two Democratic presidents has been the Republican greater lust to destroy them. We can only hope that will continue should Hillary return to the White House, but I don't want to chance it. The billionaires running the Republican party will sooner or later whip them into line to achieve one of their dearest dreams. Democrats are forced to pretend to be Democrats more consistently when there's a Republican president. With a Democratic president, the rotating villains system threatens a greater chance of truly evil policies coming to pass.
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Not the greater evil
They're just the most effective evil. It's called the Washington consensus because it's the Washington consensus.
Solidarity forever
Interesting theory, Phoebe.
What's all too clear is that the causes of every imbalance are the guiding principles of both parties: 1) Money, 2) Power, and 3) The ability to keep grabbing 1 and 2...from every last source they can find and monetize.
Did you read the Frank interview?
Scheer referred to "Martha's Vineyard Socialization" which is really an extension of George Carlin"s Its A Big Club and You Ain't In It. The club members know and interact with each other on a level the peons don't get. Hillary and Bill did their Christmas holidays for years with Kissinger and Anna Wintour! I'm afraid that when she refers darkly (to me) about being able to get things done, that she's right, we'll all just be horrified to see what she chooses to get done.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
the wind-up doll
I think Hillary has been wound up to wind things up. I think that what she will put into place will be the final brick in the wall. "Citizens United vs FEC" will be chiseled into that wall between "Roe vs Wade" and "Brown vs The Board of Education". We won't need two parties any more. And I think that is why both are imploding. Her message will continue to be "What is good for Bidness is good for America". This is neither pessimism nor negativity. In explaining the meaning of the word "realist" my granma said "At the boardinghouse table, the optimist says "pass the cream'....the pessimist 'says pass the milk'...and the realist says 'pass the pitcher"." Me, I am just passing the pitcher.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Wow, Phoebe!
I seem to have had a little sneaking hope that it wasn't as bad as it seemed.
It was an affirmation of my fears about this election, and the importance of speaking out against the con.
I have to get the book.
Thank you for sharing the link.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Thomas Frank and Bill Curry are the guys pulling the curtain
aside on the Democrats to reveal the large systemic problems within the Party - I don't think you're using hyperbole when you call it a "con". I go out of my way to read anything they transmit.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
I will be following these guys.
My take from the interview is that we are led to believe we are a 2-party system. Pulling back the curtain shows only 1.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The guys in the black hats vs the guys in the charcoal grey hats
Hard to distinguish except in the brightest daylight.
I am so over the Democrats and I know that I am not alone. I am not drawn to the Greens because they have been so ineffective for so long. If Bernie loses, as he probably will, I hope that he creates a Bernie wing of the Party that acts as a real power broker and not a pretend one. I'm also fine if he says "Just kidding!" about being a Democrat and forms an entirely new truly independent and progressive party.
The people who Bernie has rallied in common cause have to create some outlet and not just crawl back into their caves after the election.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
You're so right...
...the common cause Bernie has drawn people to needs to stay alive. I don't understand why more people have not been moved to support his candidacy. Because the 99% is huge, hurting and helpless. The scariest (to me) question is, what dreaded consequences will befall the 99% before people do engage? Or do we just continue to watch the government bail out the perpetrators and protect the wealthy? What are the damned answers? Lol. I'm sorry, Phoebe...that was a rhetorical question.
Bad news
I live in the Rustbelt. I'm in upstate New York, and much of my family lives in Ohio and Michigan and are firmly in the 99%. People around here are going for Trump. That is how they are engaging. Some of them go for the overt racism and wall building. Most people I know do not, but they think he's going to do something to end trade pacts. Trump is building a frightening coalition. Economic populism and xenophobia are never a pretty combination when times are tough.
The best "strategy" too many people have for Trump is to call him a racist. His coalition could be broken by full throatedly taking on issues like the global race to the bottom and our transformation to a gig economy. The problem is, the higher-ups in the Democratic party don't want to stop the race to the bottom - they want to profit from it.
I agree.
The Green Party is not viable. We need some other option.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Clinton Cognitive Dissonance Syndrome (CCDS)
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
This goes deeper than just one or two candidates
It is all about the entire culture of our political system whereby the people pay for a few to cash in. I believe the word for that is corruption.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Just when we think it's this bad,
remember it can get worse and might already be worse because what is uncovered is usually a teensie piece of the whole story. Do not be surprised; be prepared.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
It's
The more effective evil.
reading the Frank book now
A rare book for me now, that I ordered it hard cover to hold in my hands and probably fill with little scraps of paper to mark important quotes. I have always been a loyal Dem, voted with the party but the book is only further confirmation of what I already know. Those in power are like in a club to which I will never belong, and they will always put the club's interests first. The Clintons are full members of that club, and I am dreading her in the White House as a third Bush term(plenty of Mideast intervention) or a third Obama term in all the bad ways, no prosecutions of Wall Street/financial crimes, no improvement in wages/tax fairness. I read that article about her "managing the decline of the middle class" and it is in her speeches now. Trump is such a massive narcissist that I think he would end up fighting with Congress. Hillary, I believe, will find herself in impeachment hearings from day one while privately continuing bad policies. Canadian winters are looking more and more tolerable, and where I live, the dogwoods are blooming today.
(first post - I was Chun Yang over at Daily Kos, since 2004)
Welcome Katherine
Enjoy not walking on eggshells. At first I missed the crunchy noise , but that passed quickly.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
After this election cycle...I have really lost hope for USA
The Democrats are not even a pretend version of FDR social programming. Hillary is outwardly pro Wall Street/big business. While our vehicle to a participatory democracy is broken down, she is promising to polish the hubcaps.
The two party system has got to go and right now. We no longer have time to dicker with incremental changes. Our planet is dying and we have barely begun to see the global conflicts this will cause. It's time for a new party with a new vision that is, first and foremost, populist. This is an appeal that will bring many of the angry white males into the fold. It won't happen this election...but we should do what we can to help the D's and R's fracture.
I agree with this diary and with DKmich's synopsis. It always frustrates me when Democrats insist they are sooo much better than Republicans. Yeah...big deal. They have been saying that for 40 years and that no longer gets my vote.
This is it --> "I would say
This is it --> "I would say the major takeaway is that a triangulating centrist Democrat President is more effective at delivering Republican policies than a Republican President." Oh man I could not agree more.
Here's a video with Thom Hartman and Thomas Frank talking about his New book, Listen Liberal
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
Lesser is
The lesser of two evils is the sneakier of the two evils, that is to say the one out front and loud we know as evil is like the distraction, he is the evil that grabs the attention of the majority.
The lesser is brushed off as :"Okay" and then sneaks in the maliciousness that evil in general is known for, and by the time we catch what Lesser evil has done, it is too late and we need a real new hero like person to fix or clean it up.
Sadly we did not get that as Obama has proven not to be the one to clean the messes of Bill Clinton and then Bush Jr. He has allowed it to continue, and as well the article here in this site reporting his collusion to undo social security, his collusion in the 2008 bailouts, and the TPP issue as well as allowing drilling in the arctic for oil.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
The greater evil is the one that gets it done.
Evil is only theoretical until it is enacted. We need to take a long hard look at the underlying processes that move evil forward, basically a Democratic President who signs Republican legislation, thus exempting it from having to pass with veto-proof majorities. This is how it gets done.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
Very good talk with thom Hartmann on RT
I wanted to write more about the chat with Thomas Frank & Thom hartmann but I don't have enough time but it's very interesting:
- focuses more on the shift from labor being a dominant force in Democratic politics
- the "liberal class" becoming the driving force in the party
- the reasons why neoliberals fail on the economy: groupthink by the experts they trust.
You can't be neutral on a moving train
- Howard Zinn
Love your user name and your signature
Howard Zinn changed my entire worldview. I've said before that if I had a lot of disposable dollars I would leave copies of A People's History of The United States in bus stations and rest rooms and coffee shops and just watch the seeds grow. It's been the haves against the Have Nots for our entire existence.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "