The Mother of all Islamic Conspiracy Theories
The Turksih/Saudi fracas has really stirred up the CT muck. All kinds of rancid junk has floated to the surface. But, even if stuff is CT, if it is believed and acted upon, one must pay attention. That is, even though "the evil Jew" was Nazi CT, it was acted upon and millions were murdered.
So, with that context, let me introduce to you a CT that has floated around the Arab world for many years, and was published at Strategic Culture in 2010, well before the current Moslem Brotherhood/Wahabbi Tong War.
The Dönmeh: The Middle East’s Most Whispered Secret (2 parts, link to second at end of first)
First off, the article explaining this to Westerners is written by Wayne Madsen, a major CT player for decades. He is on record as insisting on Saudi complicity in 911 as early as 2003. In 2012 he published a book insisting that Obama was a creation of the CIA. To me, these are not CT, but insight. Bottom line: I don't know if the guy is a paranoid nutbag or an under-acheiving Snowden wannabee. So, I will let you draw your own conclusions about this Dönmeh stuff.
Madsen begins by reciting some non-controversial history about the Donmeh.
The Donmeh were... a sect of Turks descended from a group of Sephardic Jews who were expelled from Spain during the Spanish Inquisition in the 16th and 17th centuries. These Jewish refugees from Spain were welcomed to settle in the Ottoman Empire and over the years they converted to a mystical sect of Islam that eventually mixed Jewish Kabbala and Islamic Sufi semi-mystical beliefs into a sect that eventually championed secularism in post-Ottoman Turkey.
The Donmeh sect of Judaism was founded in the 17th century by Rabbi Sabbatai Zevi, a Kabbalist who believed he was the Messiah but was forced to convert to Islam by Sultan Mehmet IV, the Ottoman ruler. Many of the rabbi’s followers, known as Sabbateans, but also “crypto-Jews,” publicly proclaimed their Islamic faith but secretly practiced their hybrid form of Judaism, which was unrecognized by mainstream Jewish rabbinical authorities. Because it was against their beliefs to marry outside their sect, the Dönmeh created a rather secretive sub-societal clan.
Basically, these guys were the Islamic equivalent of "conversos". (Although the presence of yet another self-declared Messiah with his own new religion tends to make these particular conversos look bad.) Then, Madsen wanders off into what could well be Islamic CT land by claiming that the Donmeh were the Islamic equivalent of the Rothschilds. Grey eminences working behind the scenes to undermine religious Islam and replace it with secularism, i.e. eventually Ataturk. The CT claims that the Young Turks were Donmeh, and that Ergodan is part of a long line of religious Turks who want to get rid of the secularists, not only because they are atheists, but also because they are the puppets of external forces (the West and Israel).
Erdogan and his Justice and Development Party (AKP) seem to have finally seen a way to break free from the domination and cruelty of the Dönmeh, whether in the form of Kemalist followers of Ataturk or nationalist schemers and plotters in Ergenekon. But with Turkey’s “Independence Day” has come vitriol from the Dönmeh and their natural allies in Israel and the Israel Lobby in the United States and Europe. Turkey as a member of the European Union was fine for Europe as long as the Dönmeh remained in charge and permitted Turkey’s wealth to be looted by central bankers like has occurred in Greece.
To me as a Westerner and non-scholar of Islam, this is, so far, just some political spin on an acknowledged historical fight inside Turkey.
But then it jumps the shark. Its cites heavily from an Iraqi security document that was captured and declassified by the DIA in 2002 to the effect that the Saudi monarchy and the Wahhabi religion were founded by some of these Islamic conversos. Good job, Wayne, you just poisoned your entire interesting take on why Ergodan wants to get rid of the secularists by spouting complete nonsense from Saddam Hussein's intelligence shop. These statements would be enough for any GOS censor to ban me for even referring to the article. Might even get me banned from Fakebook, if I had been stupid enough to ever sign up there.
Having denounced this CT, I want to go back to my original point. This crazy CT is believed in anti-Wahhabi Islamist circles. It informs policy. It inflames the masses. So, it sort of important for Westerners trying to follow this inter-Islamic religious war to be aware that this CT is out there. Unfortunately, this kind of CT makes Ergodan look every bit as unhinged as the Wahhabi head choppers.
So the next time you hear about the Moslem Brotherhood/Wahhabi fight, and Ergodan's desire to be Caliph, you can be aware that this fight is at least a century, probably two centuries old. The good thing I learned from reading this sewage is that I don't have the slightest clue what motivates the various Islamic sects. And, I doubt the US government does either.
OTOH, the Israeli government, has quite a good track record of understanding and manipulating Islamic actors. So, it wouldn't surprise me at all to hear that the US is simply doing what Israel suggests about the MB/W fight. The Russians also have quite a strong foreign policy infrastructure with a lot of scholarship; there are also a huge number of Russian emigres in Israel.
Bottom line here: the US has walked (or were shoved by the Cheney neocons) into the middle of a centuries old religious war without a clue what is going on. They rely on the Israelis to explain things, which gives the Israelis a huge amount of leverage over US Mideast policy. In other words, once we stuck our foot into the Mideast quicksand, the need for neocons to be proactive vanished. The US now is forced to depend on Israeli experts because the US itself has the foreign policy acumen of a Bolivian civics teacher.
The US is so screwed, and its leaders are too stupid and/or too corrupt to even comprehend that.
Comments
6 hours w/o a comment.
Could someone just tell why nobody cares?
Too CT? Too close to anti-Semitism? Khassogi fatigue?
Nobody at c99p cares about warring Islamic fundamentalists?
Clearly this topic is a complete dud here, yet I found it interesting enough to write up. What am I missing about the c99p zeitgeist?
People are very circumspect about stuff that sounds anti-Semitic
Plus, where social media are involved, merely demonstrating that one has read and exposed one’s mind to “wrongthink” and “badthink” can get one in trouble these days. Big trouble.
Lack of interest?
You didn't really explain what the secret is, but linked to a two-part post somewhere else. I'm willing to agree that the US basically does what the Israelis say to do (WRT the middle east, especially), and I think that's often not in our best interest, but…
Not just Kashoggi fatigue, but the fact that everyone and everything, everywhere is a disaster for the 99% here—that seems to be where we are.
There's nothing we can do about whatever is the issue that you bring up. Our government stands between us and solutions, in almost every direction, including the one you're pointing to.
We care. But at this point, we have to shut all that down and do what we can do, in our towns and neighborhoods. Epictetus was maybe a bit bloodless, but his point—that holding ourselves responsible for things that we cannot affect is the path to madness—may be our best advice just now.
“We may not be able to change the system, but we can make the system irrelevant in our lives and in the lives of those around us.”—John Beckett
I didn't say we had to *act* on this info
And I certainly don't hold myself responsible for what some whackos in another civilization believe.
But I do take your point that this is pretty useless info for the average Joe. I just thought that c99p was a place for not your average Joes who might be interested in this for its own sake.
I'm sorry if it wasn't obvious, but I did mention the main point
- i.e., crypto-Jews.
I certainly could not support this claim, and that is why I labeled the whole thing Islamic CT.
I guess my main point was too subtle: that CT is important even if its false. Add the fact that I didn't want to repeat such an awful theory, and I can see how you didn't get the point.
Yes, I understand we are powerless
I have pretty much accepted that, short of rioting in the streets, nothing much is going to change until the economy crashes, the environment collapses, or the US starts WW3.
Given that, and given that c99p is a place where people come to discuss political issues, I felt that other people might be interested in this admittedly esoteric topic. I was wrong.
I read your every post
They are generally highly interesting and your insights are keen. I did not suggest that you should stop posting.
Take a breath.
“We may not be able to change the system, but we can make the system irrelevant in our lives and in the lives of those around us.”—John Beckett
Dont worry.
I was only saying that *this* particular topic was a mistake, not that I'm giving up on c99p. It's my mistake, not s failing of the site.
And, I appreciate your readership. Thanks.
The more CT the merrier
You are correct about this. We need the information that is being acted upon - nutty or not. I was aware of some of this CT you've brought up due to an article in The Atlantic a few years ago (No, don't remember the article...). The more we know about it, the better.
Yeah, it's still crazy.
Millions of armed believers-in-craziness will charge into the sights of machine guns for their crazy leader. Entire nations will risk total destruction due to their belief in craziness. These days, the entire world can be destroyed by the craziness of one man influencing the president of the USA.
There's lots of crazy. I've been wading through CT and craziness most of my life, it seems. I can stand to traipse through a bit more. It's okay. Glad you wrote about this.
Interesting until the last drop, but the...
Why the unecessary slur against Bolivia, who at the moment are standing up against Trumpco and capitalist aggression?
"forced to depend on Israeli experts because the US itself has the foreign policy acumen of a Bolivian civics teacher."
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Believe it or not, I agnonized over that
The line "the knowledge of foreign affairs of a Bolivian civics teacher" was a direct quote from a 1972 joke in the National Lampoon about the Nixon-McGovern election. The joke was so funny it has stuck with me for 45+ years. I can't pull up the acompanying photo, but the text is quoted in a book.
As I was writing, I realized that Bolivia is no longer just a stand-in word for "middle of nowhere" as it was then. I tried to think of the 2018 version of middle of nowhere, but there isn't any nowhere out there any more. So I stuck with the original quote.
Keep writting - trend I noticed
while writing an open thread. My serious diaries on less generally known subjects received the least amount of immediate dialog. It takes time to read, digest, look at the supporting links and start to form thoughts. I still thinking about the info in the link information and using it in my analysis of today's news. It is one more piece of a moving puzzle board.
We are a very modern society that prides our self on using the newest technology, new methods and abandoning old outdated traditions. Knowing the fracture lines that have occurred over time in religions and societies that can be used to create conflict is information we need to actively seek out. It is not part of knowledge we adsorb in our schooling and consumption of common media.
Your opinion this is important information to post on C99. Expecting active well thought dialog on such new knowledge will lead to disappointment. Give the info time to ferment for a while.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
I appreciate that
It is a much deeper analysis than I have done. I limit myself to "what time of day/ day of the week" is best time to get a dialogue going? That hasn't generated any clear correlations; so I gave up, except to, obviously, not start a thread at 3 AM.
Your POV is much more appropriate to the kind of deeper/long range pieces that I write. Your comment, in this sparsely commented thread, is a... (right brain was going to say "mitzvah", but given the content of the OP, that's not going to work ) ...blessing.
The slower pace is one of the things I love about c99%
I am someone who has a busy, unpredictable work schedule with ups and downs in my amount of free time, and no way to know for sure when I will get it. Life at home is similar. I find myself often envious of everyone on here who seems to be retired or otherwise afforded a lot of time to be online reading and/or writing. But for me it’s often the weekends or evenings when I get time to catch up and read what I’ve missed.
I’ve always appreciated how it’s not unusual here for discussions to unfold slowly, and continue on for several days. The comments are never closed. Rarely if ever have I seen anyone accused of “dead-threading” for adding a comment or continuing a topic over a fairly long period of time. It’s seemed understood that some people don’t have time to be here and present all the time, but discussion can continue nonetheless. And I think that’s a great thing here.
In this age of twitter and social media and continuous news running full blast 24/7, everything feels so urgent and reflexive... but not reflective.
This site is a place where slower, more reflective and thoughtful discussions can take place. You can post at 3:00 am, then go to bed. Over the next two or three days, readers will check in, and maybe weigh in. Especially with essays that require more study and effort, rather than pressing on hot-button topics, it takes time.
I certainly haven’t formulated anything useful to add to the topic of your essay. That’s one reason I read the comments after finishing it; I find it’s often helpful to see what more well-informed people have to say when I’m in over my head on something.
Busy bee
Likewise. I'm out of town for a week every other week. Seems as though when I finally get back home, it's like there's been an earthquake - and I find myself running around like a crazy person. Don't know how I get time to be on here at all. Impossible to keep up, but the slower pace helps. The various open threads and news aggregators essays, such as The Evening Blues and Hot Air, help a lot. More that you all would imagine.
Further, it's good to be able to go back and re-examine topics that deserve further investigation. All the links folks embed are so welcome ... even if I don't have the time to follow them when posted.
Also, I think of something Mark Twain (I think...) said regarding newspapers. He said that he'd found the best way to read a paper was when it was a week old, and read from the last page to the first. He felt the important issues stood out when you did that. In a fashion, I can do that here.
No. It's History
@arendt
going back over a thousand years. Anyone remember the Ottoman Empire and where it's center was? Anyone remember Lawrence of Arabia and how the Brits and French fucked the Arabs with Sykes–Picot? Anyone remember how S-P divided up the middle east without regard to tribal affiliation (see Kurds) and created false borders so the Europeans could reign their colonialism over the territory to the ruin we find ourselves in now? Anyone remember how the Ottoman Empire sided with Germany in WWI and the Nazis in WWII. Just don't ask an Armenian about the "good intent" of the Turks.
And yes, the Saudis are no better and have spread Wahabinism across the muslim countries for decades with Madrasses and Mosques and and and. Your hijab looks particularly fetching today? PBUH.
You ain't wrong with this analysis. "We" have just forgotten History.
Erogadan is going for mideast dominance across the Levant and because the Saudis f'd up big time with this kidnapping/assassination the door is open.
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
I agree that there is real history...
The things you recited are real history, and I completely agree and thank you for posting.
However, the claim that the Saud family and the founder of Wahhabism were both crypto-Jews who were part of a secret British plot to undermine the Ottoman Empire is not history. It is CT.
Aside from all being semites
I have no idea what a crypto-jew is?
But the British Empire did actively try to undermine the Ottomans for a long time.
So it's 1/2 CT? Heh!
Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!
Firesign Theater
Stop the War!
Like all good CT, there is a factual basis
As you say, the British *were* trying to undermine the Ottoman Empire. But the Islamic CT is far-fetched.
Background: a crypto-Jew is a Jewish person who pretends to convert to another religion (Catholicism, Islam), but secretly practices the Jewish faith. That is, they are just pretending to be Christians/Moslems. This kind of play acting made sense prior to 1800, when people were often executed for failing to convert.
ON EDIT: More Background:
So, historically, there were only a handful of Jews in England at the time when ibn Saud and Wahhabi were founding KSA; and those Jews were still treated poorly, as evidenced by the 1754 repeal of the naturalization act.
In short, the Jews were still controvesial in Enlgand at this time.
END EDIT
The CT: The CT claims that Ibn Saud, the founder of Saudi Arabia, was a crypto-Jew and a willing pawn of the British. It claims the same for Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab, the founder of Wahhabism.
This is unbelievable. The idea that KSA's founder and religious inspiration were both part of a British plot (back when the Jews were anathema to just about all Christians, and there were only a tiny number of them in England) is simply not credible.