Brett Kavanaugh is a Bad Man (edited to get name right - mea culpa)
I believe his accusers. Sadly, I don't think the furor surrounding his nomination is going to do a damn thing to help sexual assault victims. Neither major political party is going to propose laws or policies to help the millions of people who have been sexually assaulted. But they are happy to distract us from that fact, and from all the other policies and programs that America needs because as long as Cavanaugh is the only thing the media talks about, every other issue, from #MedicareForAll to Raising the Minimum wage, and yes, even to laws that protect sexual assault victims and make it easier to prosecute sexual predators, will be ignored. Something to ponder while we gear up for what will likely be the most expensive mid-term election in US history.
Here's my video about our latest media obsession:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Onr7l4rCNkg&feature=youtu.be]
My Patreon link: https://www.patreon.com/stevendbt
Comments
Sorry Steven, I can't agree
He probably is a privileged frat boy and all around asshole BUT..
A generation old accusation by a Democratic activist "confirmed" by a classmate whose confirmation is "everybody knows what they were like" is just plain McCarthyism.
It's a stain on the Democratic Party. You or I could be the next accused. No proof, just accusation. A witch hunt.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
From my perspective,
I don’t consider this a witch hunt because the accusation is a generation old, and there is no proof. And I especially don’t dismiss it because ‘you or I could be the next accused’. I believe there is every reason now to reveal Kavanaugh’s behaviour. Yes, teenage hormones in combination with alcohol is often a catalyst of bad behaviour, but even under those circumstances 17 year-olds are capable of making different choices. What kind of man is one who (even in that state) is totally unaware of the pain (rather than pleasure) he is causing the other? I find Kavanaugh's behaviour believable, especially in light of his stance on women’s rights. The world needs better men in all places, and in my observation that is happening to a great extent with the younger generation.
How do yopu know it even happened?
I grew up a few miles from Hillary. I can claim that she kidnapped me and made me her sex slave in High school. Would you believe me?
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Of course I don't know.
But as I said, it is believable in light of his view of women.
What precisely is BK's view on women?
Is it Roe v. Wade as enunciated during the hearings? Oops, that didn't get much air time. I agree that denigrating a woman's right to choose is demeaning. But their are other parts of the issue, such as unequal wages for equal work, voting rights, equal enforcement of law--INCLUDING sexual assaults, harassment, or discrimination. What are BK's views on these issues?
The Dims busily are collapsing the bases of their support (other than rich donors), by diluting the too often used accusations of racism and now #Metoo. The boy-who-cried-wolf effect is robbing legitimate complaints of their impact.
As one YouTuber stated, the Dims will cast aside Blasey Ford and Ramirez as soon as the BK hearings are over. Blaze Ford will be met by retribution, type unknown as yet, for daring to shoot her arrows at BK with an almost empty quiver.
A good many here do not realize that El Trumpo is winning the coup. Some here may not believe there is a coup in progress. News of the coup is openly discussed on Fox Spews and even is trickling into the MSM. Many of us understand the Klinton Krime Korporation has dispatched many souls across the River Styx--but will DJT do the same--sending his opponents to Gitmo? Where's Tony Podesta? Where's Joseph Mifsud? Trump is eliminating his enemies mostly in plain sight.
Sadly, this type of
Sadly, this type of accusation only hurts sexual assault victims. How many of you remember clearly what happened to you 35 years ago on a drunken night partying?
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
I was sexually assaulted 45 years ago
I was 14, a sophomore in high school. I do not remember the day of the week or the calendar date on which it occurred, or the exact time. I don’t know what clothes I wore or what the weather was like that day. What I know is it was in the late summer of 1973 and it took place in the afternoon, at my home, and I remember the attack very, very clearly.
No the police were not called. I felt shame and wanted to forget. I did tell my mother, who didn’t believe me (it was her live in boyfriend who attacked me, and she didn’t want to hear it). I spent years being a near-suicidal mess after that day. I gained 100 pounds within a couple of years. Self protection. Therapy and time helped me pull myself together, but you never forget.
My attacker finally croaked from a heart attack when I was in my 40s. I drank a glass of champagne with my spouse to quietly celebrate that the piece of shit was no longer using up oxygen on this planet. That was it for me in terms of justice.
Thankfully, no one ever tried to put him on the Supreme Court. If they had, I might finally have been driven to speak out. But as we can see in today’s news and articles and comments, doing so would be a mistake — the victims who speak up only get attacked yet again, while the predators go on with their business. Same as it ever was.
I’m so sorry you experienced all of that.
As a survivor myself, it’s been hell of a week. Reading all of the #WhyIDidntReport stories has drained me dry, infuriated me, and also given me some hope and further strength. Here’s to you for carrying on. Stay strong.
Guy gets drunk at a frat party,
"Boys will be boys." Girl get drunk at a frat party - "Sluts will be sluts." You're right, same as it ever was.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Can you explain
why a 15 year old girl went to a small drinking party?
Can you explain why a college student participated in a drinking game?
I thought the entire purpose of drinking games/parties was to get plastered and engage in debauchery.
dfarrah
That doesn't matter
It appears that you are blaming the girl for drinking underaged, but not the boy for doing that too. You might as well say that "if she hadn't worn those clothes then she wouldn't have been assaulted." Or one could go the other way. "Why did he drink so much that he assaulted a girl or that he blacked out?"
I'd think that most of us would have moved beyond that line of thinking. And I think you thought wrong. Just my opinion though.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
The character of
K at that age and beyond is being savaged. If it is character versus character, why not question Ford's character?
After all, she lied to her parents (or someone) about the party. She probably lied about her age to the other partiers. She further concealed her activities from her parents.
Tell me, why should we believe this liar? (this is a rhetorical question)
And a different thought - she said she didn't tell her parents because she was afraid of getting into trouble for drinking. So, IMO, that tells you right there that she was more concerned about her parents than the assault.
dfarrah
It's obvious that you were never assaulted
sexually or otherwise because you have no clue about how it affects people. People. Men and women alike. Count yourself lucky ...
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
With all
the respect that I have for you, I'm struggling with whether you or others are saying there is no possibility that Christine Blasey Ford is fabricating. My personal view is that at we can't know at this point because we're not the jury or the members of the Senate who have to hear and decide about this.
But are you saying that all people who have been sexually assaulted are telling the truth? Or are you saying that all people who say they have been sexually assaulted are telling the truth?
I remember being in college
and hearing gossip about drunken frat parties and the shenanigans that went on at them (I stayed out of that whole scene because I was there to get an education). So yeah, the story sounds credible (which is not quite the same thing as whether it is true).
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I was raped at gunpoint when I was about 20 in the
early '80s. I have been molested 3 times (not egregiously), and I have been exposed to. I immediately filed a police report with the Houston Police Department.
I had a longer comment to you last night, but the stupid computer wigged out and came up with an error message. And Caucus99 was taking forever to change screens, so I went to sleep.
dfarrah
If it is at all possible to separate yourself
From the Political kabuki of the Kavanaugh hearings, I would like to comment on your very personally revealing post. It is estimated that there are more women who do not file a police report after being sexually assaulted then there are who do. Since i cannot corroborate your claim, i will have to politely believe you and refrain from attributing your possible deception to something more covertly nefarious.
You see how that works?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Do you want
a release from me for the Houston Police department?
I'll be more than happy to provide one, then you can request the records.
I'll even be happy to provide a release form from the hospital that collected the rape kit, Houston Memorial.
Get me the forms, and I'll sign.
dfarrah
You really aren't very good
At detecting snark, are you?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The point being you reported it to your mother then.
And maybe he try something back then. And maybe not.
I'm not a lawyer but trying to take someone's panties off is not rape. Rape requires penetration. It's illegal, but some other charge. Struggling with an insistent guy at a party isn't anything like what happened to you.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Respectfully
You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. Anyone who is forcefully trying to take my clothes off against my will is SEXUALLY ASSUALTING ME.
So, please, spare us your trenchant legal definition of what rape is when sexual assault does not require penetration for it to be aggravated molestation.
Ugh.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I am a woman. I have not been raped.
I have been groped, held down and forcibly and partially disrobed, and had many other unwanted and uninvited sexual advances verbal and physical. The earliest event that happened was in elementary school when a hand in the crowd on the stairs reached up and touched me somewhere that was no accident. I never told anyone about any of them.
I also have three grandsons, and I want proof if someone is going to accuse them of anything. I am not going to believe anyone just because of their genitalia. VoiceintheSquare was attacked for expressing his opinion and struck back. Unfortunately, his anger was misdirected.
I absolutely agree BK is an elitist frat boy asshole wrapped in a flag on a cross. In his case, I'm not sure I even care if his accusers are lying. When I'm in a no holds barred brawl, fight fire with fire. If it was good enough for Franken and Conyers, it is good enough for this asshole.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You and I have gone head to head
about this subject before. My point was NOT in relation to the political shit show reference in this thread. My point was to clarify an obtusely false definition of sexual assault to someone responding to another's posters personal story.
As an aside, now that you have poked the hornets nest, what kind of proof would you require if your daughter came to you accusing your husband of assaulting her?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
The poster said
'rape.' Not sexual assault. Rape is a more specific charge than sexual assault.
dfarrah
Are you a man?
You must be and have never been sexually harassed or assaulted. Until it happens to you, with all due respect, STFU.
If you are a woman and have never had been sexually harassed or assaulted, write a book about how fortunate you are because you are the EXCEPTION.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Ford is not accusing him of rape
She is accusing him of assault because he threw her on a bed and pinned her down with his body, put his hand over her mouth so she couldn't scream and tried taking her swimsuit off. Gee. Why do you think he was trying to do that? Just wanted to see what was underneath the swimsuit? He also turned up the music so that no one could hear what was happening in the room. This is pre meditation to hide his actions.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Don't forget
Don't forget the part about him grinding his body against hers, while pressing her down into the mattress and groping her. Masturbating against her body, in other words.
I actually believe he may have been telling the truth about being a virgin. If true, his sexuality at that time consisted of getting drunk at frat parties and using drunk women, by force if necessary, as masturbatory accessories.
He says that as a teenager, his only relationships with females were as friends.
Except for the women at the frat parties, I guess. But hey, they were drinking at frat parties, so they were obviously not "nice girls" like his female friends.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
@Crazytimes I agree. Given the social
I agree. Given the social atmosphere in those elite circles at the time, it seems it would be impossible to establish what happened and both sides know it. It doesn't look good when your lawyer tries to scrub your HS yearbooks before going public, however: https://cultofthe1st.blogspot.com/2018/09/why-christine-blasey-fords-hig...
Thanks for the link to the interesting year book. n/t
I have seen many references to that website
which states this
There are no other links on this website, but there sure are a lot of blacked out photos of Ford on it. Who knows who removed the yearbook photos or who blacked out the photos? Could it have been the owner of the website! There is no evidence that the attorney scrubbed them.
Regardless of what the girls or boys said in the yearbook that wouldn't have given anyone of those in attendance at the parties the right to assault someone. Male or female.
If what is on this website is true don't you think that more websites would be reporting on it and even possibly the main stream media? I'm pretty sure that if they were real then someone from the GOP would have shown them by now.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Ford supposedly
also scrubbed her social media.
What is she hiding? Could it be exculpatory evidence?
dfarrah
Supposedly
Or maybe it wasn't her that did it.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Her lawyers probably helped. nt
dfarrah
InfoWars
No surprise that Alex Jones has hopped on this.
An article here (sorry, forgot how to post links) https://www.mediamatters.org/blog/2018/09/20/right-wing-fever-swamps-are...
states: "The yearbook pages in question don’t include any information that reflects negatively on Ford or contradicts any part of her account, but she is now being smeared over their contents. Those launching the attack include prominent conspiracy theorist Alex Jones, who baselessly identified a photo of a girl wearing a skirt as Ford in order to claim she was promiscuous in high school -- as though such a claim would in any way excuse or negate sexual assault."
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
@snoopydawg Do you honestly not
Do you honestly not believe that those are actual pages from SCRIBE '82, '83, '84? The heavy redacting of names and faces probably explains the lack of wide circulation -- fear of defamation-like liability. I prefer to assess the nature of the evidence and not the source who publishes it, so your attempts to discredit the sources are not persuasive to me.
This evidence speaks to the binge-drinking culture in which these events allegedly occurred. The culture does not excuse anyone taking advantage of an incapacitated person, but it should be considered when people are attempting to reconstruct 35 year old memories.
Both factions are conservative.
Fuck both of them.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Until we are no longer a
male dominated society, women will continue to be sexually assaulted.
I have lived 66 years and I cannot recall the number of times I've been harrassed. I've been almost raped twice, groped, received unwanted smooches, been touched inappropriately (which is different than groped), and spoken to in unwanted tawdry terms.
Until women teach their sons to respect all other women, women will continue to be sexually assaulted.
When my son was in 5th grade, we were watching TV when an ad for sanitary napkins came on. He looked at me and asked me what those were. I decided it was a good time to teach him about the woman's cycle. I told him that many young girls in his classes would now begin their cycles and I wanted him to be a defender of them and not a teaser of them. It has to start somewhere.
Until men figure out that women are human beings who do not want sexual advances unless they signal that desire, women will continue to be sexually assaulted.
I was with my grandson shopping for some clothes. He began telling me of an incident of a skimpily clad woman, and how if she dresses like that, boys can do or say what they want. I looked at him and asked him why men can wear whatever they want and not get harassed. He didn't have an answer. He looked at me and said, "I never thought about it that way." I told him that most men, and women, don't think like that, but they need to start thinking like that.
Bottom line - it's up to men to control themselves. Until that time, women will be diminished in every way possible.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Another man hater heard from.
Go vote for Hillary so she can castrate all of us. You can live in you manless heaven then.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Way out of line.
This has nothing to do with Billary, and even if it did, Billary would back Kavanaugh. She's a literal manifestation of an Aunt from The Handmaid's Tale. A woman with an unusual amount of autonomy in a heavily patriarchal society propped up to keep the system looking legit. That's Billary to the T.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Nonsense...
This sleazy hit has all the earmarks of a David Brock special.
But hey, I guess it's all OK so long as the tawdry sex smear isn't directed at someone we like, like say Bernie or Julian Assange.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
David Brock led the charge in slandering Anita Hill.
And now the pigs are doing it again. But hey, if you wanna let the pigs get away with giving a corporate frat boy a lifetime appointment from a man-child who claims to be our president just because you hate another pig, feel free.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Is Bernie a pig? Is Assange?
Because they got the same treatment from the same scumbag whose tactics you now defend.
And they will again because short sighted political roid ragers like you who think politics is all about survival of the most hysterical can't see that promoting sleazy politics of personal destruction has killed any chance for Progressive change this country.
So enjoy your two minutes of hate. I know how you love to wallow in it.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Bernie joined the pigs the moment he stumped for Billary.
Or perhaps he was in on the con all along considering he's been pushing the Russia narrative right along with them. Assange is in business for himself, or he'd actually release the dirt on the DNC he supposedly has.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
It sounds like you might need
a good lay. You seem pretty uptight
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
@Anja Geitz I think what Voice in
I think what Voice in the Wilderness is exercised about is this crazy notion that anyone making or denying such allegations is entitled to be automatically believed, as some here suggest. It seems to me that such allegations and denials should be taken seriously and the supporting evidence should be considered, but how do you even do that when the allegations are 35 years old, there appears to be no corroborating witnesses, and the allegations are too vague (where, when, who was there)to be proven true or false? At this point, nobody deserves to be believed.
Stereotype much? nt
dfarrah
Not too good at detecting snark?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Difficult topic . . .
How to show love and compassion for all. Yes, there is the innocent hormone driven not really trying to hurt anybody types. Then there are the sorts who need to boost their egos by conquering the weaker.
One group is acting as nature intended. The other is only selfish.
The dilemma is protecting the former while converting the latter.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
You are living and writing proof
why women don't report. You are attacking me for things that have happened to me? I feel sorry for you.
Do you have a mother or daughters? I feel sorry for them.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Do you have
any male relatives?
If your husband was accused, would you automatically believe the woman?
dfarrah
Many husbands have been accused
Of sexual assault. Often times by their teenage daughters/step daughters. Too many times their wives didn't believe their husbands accusers. Even when it was true.
Your point?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Or worse, they blamed the daughter/stepdaughter for it.
The Duggars did exactly that. Worse still, the daughters internalized it and the authorities in that situation gave Josh Duggar a slap on the wrist. Had a lower class person done the same, they'd already be serving a life sentence or they'd be shot dead.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Deflecting.
How would you like it if your brother, father, husband, son, etc., was accused on such flimsy evidence?
Can you answer that, or do you want to continue to deflect?
dfarrah
What a silly person you are.
A very silly person are you.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Somehow I am positive
that if someone wanted an issue adjudicated fairly, I would be easily chosen over you based on our comments on this site.
I hope you are never chosen for jury duty involving a man vs woman situation, whatever the situation. And I hope you have the good sense to stay off such juries.
dfarrah
Do some research.
Take a look at the statistics on rapes v. reported rapes. Then look at the % of reported rapes that go to trial. Then take a look at the number of convictions.
Since you don't know me
you can just shut the fuck up. You are making so much noise about this you must be guilty of lewd behavior. Thank you for identifying yourself on this site. I will b e wary of you and any comment you make in the future. You are not a credible person.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I don't think that is what is motivating
Dfarrah's comments. She is a female poster who shared her personal story in one of these threads. Of course, as with anything on these boards, we have to take the veracity of those claims at face value, but she seemed to suggest that since she did the "right" thing after her assault by reporting it to the police, other women should be held up to those standards.
I'd chalk her insults up to a manifestation of her constricted view of "right" and "wrong", with the emphasis being that she is "right", and you and everyone else here who contradicts her is "wrong".
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Ah yes. And there it is, right on cue,
Man Hater. Used whenever necessary to shut any woman down. Man Hater. Lesbian. Castrator. Keep labeling until something sticks, lather, rinse, repeat.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Not a great logical leap there mate
to say that RA is a man hater after she has been exposed to this during her lifetime.
It seems to me that you are saying that after she has experienced that she should not have the right to feel that her body is her own and that no man has the right to it without her permission. You are way out of line. I can't believe that we are having this discussion again.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
I agree with you
about the man-hating.
As a female feminist since grade school, (and I came to my positions on my own - my parents did not brainwash me), I find the womens' stance, to always believe women, to be absolutely reprehensible.
Do they have any idea what would happen to our legal system or life itself if every unsupported claim in any setting became actionable against the accused? No, they apparently don't, nor do they care.
I never gave the man-hating charge much thought. But observing the hysteria, irrationality, and hatred directed toward men, I now believe there is definitely an immoderate slice of the female population who hates men with a white hot passion.
And this includes Gillibrand, who eyes almost popped with rage as she ranted about how she believes Ford. And it includes that senator from Hawaii who said 'men need to shut up." Can you imagine the reaction had someone said, women need to shut up; blacks need to shut up; muslims need to shut up? She is telling 1/2 of her constituency to shut up!! I hope the men vote her out of office, the sooner the better.
dfarrah
Seriously? I ndon't even know where to begin
You are saying that Raggedy Ann has no right to feel the way she does after she said this..
From that statement you agree that she says that she hates men? Just wow. I sincerely hope that you never experience what way too many women have and what has left scars that never really heal.
BTW. This has happened. Where have you been that you haven't noticed it?
I hope the men vote her out of office, the sooner the better.
I'm going to refrain from addressing this.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
I can't believe the discussion, either.
You are leaping to a completely unsupportable conclusion.
I said nothing about anyone's 'right' to have feelings
There are certainly instances where people have turned into haters of some group that wronged them (like during wars, not to mention all the people who hate other groups just because). So, I concluded that man-haters do exist (for whatever reason), where previously, I thought the charge was hyperbole. But it isn't. The man-haters may as well admit what they are.
Anybody who tells half of their constituency to shut up has no business being a representative.
dfarrah
Yes,
I am in agreement with you here. I've been struggling with this since yesterday after hearing a radio discussion in which a woman supportive of Blasey Ford said that victims of sexual assault "have to be believed." Wait. What?
I feel that people who say they have been sexually assaulted have to be taken seriously, have to be heard, and have to be respected. But the evidence against the alleged attacker has to be weighed and considered, in case the accusation is untrue. Maybe I misunderstand this, but at times in this conversation it sounds like victims' advocates are saying every person who makes such a claim is automatically telling the truth, in which case, why do we need a hearing or an investigation?
It isn't just victim advocates
who are saying this, women all over are saying the same.
It is outrageous.
Further, no one wants to talk about the elephant in the room: women's behavior in these situations.
What the heck is a 15 yo doing going to a drinking party with either 4 or 2 guys? Why did this girl do this? Well, women of all ages are sexually aggressive and suggestive, too. Another thing that intrigues me is what was she (and the guys) doing upstairs in the bedroom area of the house? She says she was pushed into the bedroom, then escaped to the bathroom, and waited until they went downstairs. She says they were banging the wall on the way down. She does not say that she was dragged upstairs to the bedroom area of the house; she does not say that she was using the bathroom upstairs before they pushed her into the bedroom.
So, what causes/compels these people to go upstairs next to the bedroom so that she was push-able into it?
I believe that she was there, things got hot sexually, and got out of hand.
If this is true, this does not excuse Kavanaugh. However, I was thinking about how we are forced into believing her or believing him. If someone brings claims to court, someone wins, someone loses.
Maybe there is a better approach that doesn't create a winner/loser situation. I believe there is a concept in product negligence that could be useful, where the complainant can be partially responsible for what happened. The complainant can get relief, however, the relief can be reduced depending on if they contributed to the problem.
Maybe such an approach could be applied very narrowly where parties and liquor/drugs are involved. Guys can admit they got out of hand; women can admit that they contributed to the situation, and justice can be meted out based on this instead of win/lose. Obviously (I think), this approach couldn't be used in ordinary assault cases - this might lead to victim blaming.
That said, I don't believe what Kavanaugh did is egregious enough to deny him the SC seat. There is this concept of redemption, where one pays dues (does prison time or whatever); his behavior since seems to be okay.
And I don't care if a guy exposed himself to a woman at a drinking party that was sexually charged (some guy supposedly had a plastic penis); and I simply don't believe the gang rape stories - the woman's claims are ridiculous on their face (further, she should be charged for whatever criminality she engaged in when she observed all the illegal drinking/drug use and gang rapes without reporting the crimes immediately).
dfarrah
Just call her the 15 year old whore you want to
Yes, let's! Let's talk about how good girls never get raped, assaulted, groped, ogled, or harassed.
She was doing what the other 15+ year olds were doing there – drinking (maybe doing some drugs) and probably hoping to have fun. Probably a no-no even if her parents were absentee parents. Very few, if any had their parents’ blessings, I’m pretty sure. If you claim you never did something your parents told you not to do, or would have forbidden had they known, then I know, without a doubt you are a liar! Just because you didn’t get assaulted or worse when you did it doesn’t mean she should be held responsible for anyone else’s actions. Period.
You sound like a very bitter woman-hater. I don’t know what a woman or women in your life did or have done to you so that you feel the need to imply that this girl must have been an oversexed whore looking for some dick, otherwise she would have been home reading her Bible and serving her father and brothers food and cleaning up after them, but it/they caused you to at least sound as if you have a very judgmental filter for women and girls, almost exclusively. Why not ask if she was on the pill or what she was wearing. Or better yet, call her the name you know you want to. What year are we in again? Jesus fucking Christ! Call me a whore all you want, but I like sex. It's fun! And I'll be damned if I'm going to wait around until I'm given some sort of signal that "it's time" for sex from a partner. I'll never force it, but I'll be damned if I'm not going to initiate it when I'm in the mood. You sound like you think females of any age who enjoy it or want it are whores who deserve to be assaulted. You are twisted, and your bitter woman-hating comments are letting everyone know just how much.
Have you never been to a party? You’re implying she went up there eager for some boy parts. Maybe they were being goofy teens and nosing around. Maybe they were doing drugs.
As a teen, I once arrived at a party early to help set up, so when some neighbors of mine showed up (3 guys), they asked if I wanted to snort some coke and asked where we could do it. I led them to the master bathroom of which I already knew the location, and we all did a couple lines each. By Monday, back at school, I found out that I had been gang-banged by them, and had led them to where it could happen. Not only had I never kissed the guys, but I’d certainly never fucked any of them. They were my friends. However, a nasty, jealous bitch who wanted to fuck one of them (he wouldn’t have touched her even shit-faced drunk) wasn’t invited to the bathroom, and told everyone at school that I initiated the gang-bang.
You’re starting to remind me of her due to your judgement from your pedestal of virginal all-sex-is-bad-and-nasty-and-any-female-who-doesn’t-agree-is-a-slutty-cock-loving-whore, even if sex wasn't ever on this girl's mind, as well as girls-should-be-chaperoned-until-their-marriage-night-when-their-fathers-hand-them-over-to-be-properly-deflowered by Prince Charming.
I'm not even bothering with the rest of the bullshit in that post. I certainly hope you never reproduced and spread your beliefs that men and boys are always good unless an evil slutty whore is around, then they get a little out of hand, but it's the whore's fault if it happens bullshit.
"I said nothing about anyone's 'right' to have feelings"
You responded in agreement to the VitW's comment that accused RA of being a man hater because of her experiences with men hence my comment to you.
I would think that it's the actions of some men that people hate not men in general.
Some of my best friends are men. /s
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
which Senator from Hawaii you are talking about?/nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Hirono.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2018/09/18/sen_hirono_on_kavanau...
dfarrah
Did you miss your target?
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
thx. I had this from her in my junk mail folder
yesterday:
Petition to the White House demanding Kavanaugh's nomination for Supremet Court to be withdrawn
What I am asking myself is how many persons could be suggested for the Supreme Court, for whom could be found similar accusations.
(Auf Deutsch gesagt, zum Kotzen das ganze).
https://www.euronews.com/live
@ Raggedy Ann -I don't say this to console you or criticize you
just to round up this discussion's thread here.
In some cultures (tribal environments) men are foregiven, if they use 'the offer' a woman gives a man who happens to pass by, when her skirt or dress uncovers coincidentally her genitals while she is asleep. I even heard therapists of those cultures and tribes saying that 'a man can try' making it sound like a trivial offence (peccadillo?). (This is one example I consider an example for therapists not being capable of giving therapy to persons not being part of their own culture, race or religious ethnicity).
Just saying ... I guess most women are on the losing end trying to change attitudes, as one never knows how deeply those attitudes are ingrained in their surrounding cultures. And I do believe that fathers are more important to try to ingrain in their sons respect for women, which of course just works, if they themselves live that kind of respect in their own real life.
Be well, Raggedy Ann, I wish you the inner peace you deserve so much. Hugs.
https://www.euronews.com/live
You are a kind person, Mimi.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
BK is a corporatist, an original intent-er...
an enabler of the imperial Presidency. It is the man's politics that are the reasons why he should be defeated. You have standing to say his politics are "bad". It is way more dubious that you have standing to say this typical piece of entitled 1% sleeze is a "bad" person. Making charges like that is easily parried in the political arena by pointing to all the "bad" things done by Hillary, Rahm Emmanuel, Adam Schiff, and all the other lying neoliberal warmongers.
This he-said/she-said fiasco is playing directly into the GOP's hands, while turning off any non-GOPer who thinks that class struggle and saving what little is left of the Constitution is more important than identity politics. The Democrats have pulled another Washington Generals move. But that's their job - to be the fake opposition to corporatism, when in reality they are paid to lose. Please, Corey Booker grandstanding and looking like a fool is helping Dems how?
The whole point of this 35-year old accusation is to crowd out any discussion of the law, and how BK interprets it. The Democrats barely touched on BK's jurisprudence. Instead they pull out this classic smear. And, when the accusers get shot down, in the same manner as Anita Hill - because its a party line vote - the Dems will have allowed yet another proto-fascist onto the SCOTUS, plus they will have further alienated the "deplorables" demographic that the neoliberal wing kicked out of the party when the Clinton Crime Family came onto the scene.
Politics has degenerated into emotionalism. Emotionalism is what caused Trump to win, that and the fact that the Dems excuses for Hillary were intellectual garbage. But, since the Dems cannot simultaneously be logical and support lying neoliberal warmongers, they have fallen back on emotionalism ("It's my turn." "You must vote for the woman" - unless its Cynthia Nixon). They and the GOP, both of them the bought and paid for servants of the corporatists, have agreed that politics is now nothing more than an emotional fight.
But, guess what? There is just as much emotion on the GOP side as the Dem side in this matter. The end result is polarization, not honest debate of issues.
And, even here at c99p, there is emotionalism, like this OP.
I refuse to take part in this argument about what may or may not have happened 35 years ago as the sole reason why someone should not be appointed to the SCOTUS. I think posting this OP is inciting a useless and polarizing argument. It think you ought to delete this entire thread and post something about BK's horrible politics in its place.
ON EDIT: Changed BC to BK throughout. My mistake.
FYI, it’s Kavanaugh - with a K
We might as well at least get his name right, since he’s almost certainly going to be on the supreme court in the near future.
Thanks. Shows how little I care about the whole farce.
I will go back and correct the OP.
And, yes I recognize that we are talking about a SCOTUS appointment. But the process here is a complete farce.
I agree with you that the process is a farce
Nothing at all new about that, of course. These so-called “hearings” are always political theatre.
I don't see how people can be indifferent
when women are attacking the very notion of fairness and when women are attacking the presumption of innocence based entirely on their feelings/experiences.
The argument that the Supreme Court is so important, that we can make decisions based on one person's word, holds no water. There is no reason that the template established to adjudicate matters, which has worked in the US since the beginning, cannot be used to adjudicate this matter.
Are we really to live in a world where a woman's word is always better than a man's word just because?
dfarrah
What template?
I completely agree. And if you add "without evidence" to "one person's word", I would say that applies to any situation.
What "template"? This entire process, as I said somewhere here, is a farce. The Dems, because they are corporatists, will not attack BK for his actual politics. But they must attack BK or lose the support of their constituents. So they go with this IP crapola.
The only "template" here is a bizarro-world version of Anita Hill. Clarence Thomas was a cipher, a non-entity; and Hill was proven right by history. BK is no cipher, he's a Harvard professor and a sitting Federal judge. His supporters can point to his long public record. Meanwhile, his accuser is a public cipher. The CT committee was controlled by Dems, who were easily rolled by IP. The BK commmittee is controlled by the GOP, who have dined out so many times on IP.
While the media and the proles love this he said/she said voyerurism, our politics demands better. We aren't going to get it. Hence I have tuned the whole thing out.
It's all smoke and mirrors anyway
We're about to get another rotten excuse for a human being shoved onto the Supreme Court just because the party in power wants them there and will not listen to any reason why they should not be there. And our lives are about to get harder as a direct consequence.
It's been a long time since anyone in power gave a flying fuck about anybody but themselves and their paymasters. That is not going to change in the foreseeable future.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Geez.
Ford wanted Kavanaugh to go first in testimony. She wanted to set the questioning process.
We have a process that has worked for two centuries in US courts; there is no reason that that process shouldn't be mirrored for Ford's accusations.
dfarrah
This is not a criminal trial or a prosecution
The so-called “hearing” is a political event. Period. He’s not on trial. The worst that might happen to him is he maybe doesn’t get a lifetime job making decisions that affect all of our lives.
He’ll have to make do with a federal judgeship. Boo hoo.
She’s not facing a fair judge or jury, she’s going before openly hostile senators who have said their decision is already made, and who are out to destroy her. This is not a criminal court with procedures in place to theoretically ensure fairness of any aspect of it. (Not that they do either.) You appear confused about the difference.
"Not for nothing," but the accuser in a civil case and a
prosecutor in a criminal case do go first in court--because the accuser or prosecutor has the burden of proof.
FWIW, I don't think that the accuser should automatically be believed, nor do I think that the accuser should automatically be disbelieved.
Presumption of innocence
is a concept the state is required to exceed when convicting a person in a criminal case in court.
Senators are going to have to make a decision based on whether the charges are more likely than not, if they have the decency to rise above politics.
Which they don't.
Let's put aside for a moment, if we can, any issue of Ford's credibility or lack thereof and focus only on the professional politicians and specifically, the Democratic US Senators currently in office.
I imagine that Democratic politicians behaved this way when the FBI came up with Anita Hill. Once she testified, Democrat Biden decided not to allow testimony of others seeking to corroborate hers and a Democratic majority Senate confirmed Thomas's nomination by a Republican President, despite Anita Hill's testimony. (Not to mention that every last Democrat, white, black or "other," let Thomas get away with calling a Senate hearing on a SCOTUS nomination a high tech lynching of an uppity black man, which demeans the suffering of victims of an actual lynching and their survivors.)
Given the above, do Democratic politicians think the final outcome will be any different this time, with a Republican chairing the Senate Judiciary Committee and a Republican majority Senate voting on a Republican President's Supreme Court nominee? Right now, I cannot even imagine that they do.
Then what does explain their current "deja vu all over again"-inducing behavior? Is it yet more empty, anti-Trump posturing from Democratic politicians ahead of a midterm election--a midterm election from which Democrats obviously hope to benefit from votes cast because of anti-Trump sentiment? Is this, for Democratic Senators, all about their attempt to repeat or exceed their dramatic success in the 2006 midterms, when Democrats benefited from anti-Bush 43 votes? Right now, I cannot think of another explanation.
Wading in with a strategic look at this discussion
I agree with this point which is something I highlighted in Alligator Ed's essay. To be clear, I do not agree with everything in your comment, but this is and should have been the primary focus of the Democrats.
This is not to diminish sexual assault allegations, because they are important. But by focusing almost soley on the sexual assault allegations from 35 years ago, the Democrats have given Kavanaugh a pass on his severely lacking jurisprudence on many issues that he will be ruling on for decades to come. This diminishes the importance of these legal issues in favor of trying to play an emotional card in an attempt to push Kavanaugh out of consideration.
This is a very risky strategy. On one hand, if the Democrats are successful, then we the people got lucky that a very poorly qualified judge was not appointed to the Supreme Court. However is Kavanaugh does get the appointment, then it appears that the Democrats only cared about the alleged sexual assault to the exclusion of his many judicial faults.
We are going to be stuck with this man for several decades. It is appalling to me that the major focus of the Democrats has been only on this sexual assault issue when they should have also been calling the attention of the people to his known stances on issues of corporate power, women's reproductive rights (Rowe versus Wade), and Citizens United.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I think there is a lot of overlap in our positions
Completely agree.
Cant fight with you donors now can you
http://wallstreetonparade.com/2018/09/kavanaughs-fox-news-interview-dark...
And one must remember the Labor Day surrender
by chuckie all of trumps courts picks, poor D's
and chuckie just wanted to get home
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Can't be bothered with this Kabuki Theater. But great link!
Thanks
"Kavanaugh’s Fox News Interview: Dark Money Transforms Him into a High School Virgin Who Went to Church Every Sunday"
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
In addition to the Army of Lawyers
The big Think Tanks and the money that is being funneled into destroying our planet, Hollywood is capitalizing on "normalizing" the idea of a plan "B" once oour planet is made uninhabitable with numerous movies about interstellar life. Huzzah!
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
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