Working thread ahead of the putin-trump summit in helsinki on july 16 [Upated w/ almost surreal fallout]

Updates at the end of comments.

What we know (as opposed to Darth Cheney’s known unknowns) is that yesterday, Friday July 13 (Not april fools day, however), Deputy AJ Rod Rosenstein announced the indictment of 12 Russian members of GRU, a military intelligence agency, and that they had “corresponded with several Americans through the internet”, including an associate of the Trump campaign (assumedly Roger Stone).

b at MoA says there’s no evidence other than circumstantial, if any.  He annotates the eleven charges, but this one is key:

“The first charge is for a “Conspiracy to Commit an Offense Against the United States” by stealing emails and leaking them. The indictment claims that the GRU units sent spearfishing emails to the Hillary Clinton campaign and the Democratic Party organizations DNC and DCCC. They used these to get access to email boxes of John Podesta and other people. They are also accused of installing spyware (X-agent) on DNC computers and of exfiltrating emails and other data from them. The emails were distributed and published by the online personas DCLeaks, Guccifer II and later through Wikileaks. The indictment claims that DCLeaks and Guccifer II were impersonations by the GRU. Wikileaks, “organization 1” in the indictment, is implicated but so far not accused.

Note: There is a different Grand Jury for the long brewing case against Julian Assange and Wikileaks. Assange has denied that the emails he published came from a Russian source. Craig Murray, a former British ambassador, said that he received the emails on a trip to Washington DC and transported them to Wikileaks.

The indictment describes in some detail how various rented computers and several domain names were used to access the DNC and DCCC computers. The description is broadly plausible but there is little if any supporting evidence.”

Bill van Auken at wsws agrees that the charges are evidence free, and given the supreme unlikelihood that any of those named people will ever be tried in an Amerikan court, the timing looks exactly like a political maneuver, not a legal one.  Noting that Rosenstein had informed the president of the indictments earlier this week, part of the political maneuver is working already:

“The announcement of the criminal charges against the 12 Russians provoked a wave of hysteria from the US television news networks. Leading Democrats, including Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer and the ranking Democratic members of the Senate and House intelligence committees, Mark Warner and Adam Schiff, demanded that Trump call off his meeting with Putin.

“Glad-handing with Vladimir Putin on the heels of these indictments would be an insult to our democracy™,” said Schumer. Warner warned that “the president could be taken advantage of,” and Schiff charged that Trump “plainly lacks the courage—or the motive—to confront” Putin.”

Underlying this line of attack are sharp divisions within the US ruling establishment over foreign policy strategy. Trump’s planned meeting with Putin has been preceded by a series of worried editorials and opinion columns in the New York Times, the Washington Post and the Wall Street Journal, all of them warning that the meeting in Helsinki could lead to a de-escalation of US military pressure on Russia, particularly in relation to the failing US-backed war for regime change in Syria.

Typical was a piece in the Times by Susan Rice, Obama’s former national security advisor, who writes: “Mr. Trump has already delivered to Mr. Putin much of the benefit he might have sought by supporting Mr. Trump’s election. The balance due is the agenda for Helsinki.” Her greatest concern is that Trump may “prematurely withdraw United States forces, thus ceding total victory to Russia, Mr. Assad and Iran.”

Now just in case you’re up for some laughs (I was) comes this utterly wonderful dynamic duo in RT’s July 14: ‘Call the midwife: Maddow goes to meddling & collusion expert Nuland for tips on Trump-Putin puppetry’.  Yeppers, just the purrrfect expert.  I’ll include the quotes in case you’re not able to play videos.  Miz Noodle-andia’s startin’ to look like her hubbie Robert Kagan, ain’t she?



“In Thursday’s episode of her show, the MSNBC anchor bemoaned Trump’s threats to withdraw from NATO and how his abrasive manners were offensive to other allies. No mention was made of Trump berating Germany over energy cooperation with Russia, though.

Then she interviewed a guest about Trump’s upcoming meeting with Putin in Helsinki, Finland, asking in a most peculiar manner what the Russian leader may want from it.”

“Nuland and the US ambassador to Ukraine Geoffrey Pyatt were photographed handing out pastries to anti-government protesters in Kiev. She became notorious, however, after a conversation between her and Pyatt in February 2014 was posted online. While Nuland’s vulgar dismissal of the EU may have stolen the headlines, the topic of their conversation was arguably more scandalous, since the two US diplomats discussed who should and should not be in the new Ukrainian government. Two weeks later, US-backed protesters violently deposed Ukraine’s democratically elected president.

“The insight into Putin’s wishes Nuland offered was devoid of surprises: Money in the form of sanctions relief, a Syria deal, recognition of Crimea as part of Russia and cancellation of NATO exercises in the Baltic Sea, because if Kim Jong-un got it, why wouldn’t Putin? Maddow suggested that pulling the rug out from under NATO would be good for Putin too. Nuland agreed.

“He’d want more trouble between us and our closest allies like Germany,” she said.”

Okay, now on to Novichok™!

On July 13 RT reported ‘UK police claim to have found bottle containing ‘Novichok’ nerve agent in Amesbury victim’s house’

“UK police say they have found the source of the nerve agent that allegedly poisoned two people in Amesbury, killing one. They claim the source appears to be a small bottle discovered in one of the victim’s homes.

The bottle was apparently found in Charlie Rowley’s house in Amesbury on Wednesday. “Scientists have now confirmed to us that the substance contained within the bottle is Novichok,” a Friday statement by police said.

Investigators say they’ve not yet determined how a bottle of supposedly weapons-grade chemicals ended up in Rowley’s home, or if there are more like it around. Police cordons will remain in place around the scene “for some considerable time.”

Rowley, 45, and his girlfriend Dawn Sturgess, 44, took ill on June 30, with what British police later said was nerve agent poisoning caused by Novichok, citing researchers at the nearby Porton Down chemical lab. Both were admitted to the Salisbury hospital in critical condition.”

Dawn Sturgess apparently died a week later of a heart attack.

Okay: the day the bottle was alleged to have been found was Wednesday, July 11.  The statement by Scotland Yard didn’t say that Putin’s fingerprints had been found on the bottle, but did say that ‘…we are not in a position to disclose any further details regarding the bottle at this stage’, and also that a post-mortem has been scheduled for  Tuesday, 17 July and that an inquest into Dawn’s death is set to open and adjourn in Salisbury Thursday, 19 July.

Now I may be mooking up the timing on this, but there have been over 100 counter-terrorism police, as well as unknown numbers of London police, investigating this case, right?

On July 10 wsws had reported that ‘the murder’ (according to Theresa May) and that “police and security officials were working around the clock to establish the full facts of the incident according to Home Secretary Sajid Javid.

“Most attention thus far has focused on the “contaminated item” which Sturgess and Rowley are deemed to have come into contact with. Suggested items have ranged from a bag, a pot or an unspecified container, to a syringe or a cigarette butt. Besides the complete lack of evidence for these claims, none make sense even taken at face value.

How a cigarette butt is supposed to have become contaminated with a significant dose of nerve agent or came to be shared between Rowley and Sturgess is not explained. Nor is where any of the other items might have been picked up—as it remains wholly unclear as to how long the alleged agent can persist in the environment and remain effective and in what conditions.

“In addition to an activity log, created out of 1,300 hours of CCTV footage, and the eyewitness account, police have searched Sturgess’ and Rowley’s residences and vehicles and have access to a staff of 100 counter-terrorism officers. Yet fully nine days after Rowley was first attended by paramedics in hazmat suits, the public is none the wiser.

 That said, it is entirely possible that, once the police, government and media have coordinated their version of events, the finger will be pointed once again at Russia. The security-intelligence apparatus, already beset by the ongoing crisis over Brexit and instability of May’s government, is anxiously waiting to see how the upcoming NATO summit and US President Donald Trump’s meetings with May and Putin play out.”

On July 8 CNN had reported that ‘Detectives are working to identify the source of the contamination, police said, and that:

“Police initially cordoned off six sites in Amesbury and Salisbury and later expanded their probe of one of those sites — low-income housing in the center of Salisbury — to include part of the nearby street and inside the building.”

Now wouldn’t one be safe in assuming that one of those six sites…was Crowley’s house?

Zo…does it make any sense at all that it took that it took four days or even more to find the bottle of Novickok™ in Rowley’s house?  Ya don’t suppose the bottle might have been planted, do you?  Nah; just a coincidence.  One of my inside sources said an anonymous counter-terrorism official said that the family dog just happened to barf it up.

The rest of the CNN ‘news’ has over-the-top lies as to ‘Soviet-era Novichok, very rare, few people outside Russia have experience with it, Trump thinks it was the Roosians who’d poisoned the Skripals, too.  I’d forgotten that aside from levying boatloads of sanctions against The Bear, 20 nations had pulled their diplomats out of Roosia in solidarity with the UK.  How veddy virtuous of them, don’t you think?

Now Craig Murray is sick of the lies about Novichok:

“The nub of the British government’s approach has been the shocking willingness of the corporate and state media to parrot repeatedly the lie that the nerve agent was Russian made, even after Porton Down said they could not tell where it was made and the OPCW confirmed that finding. In fact, while the Soviet Union did develop the “novichok” class of nerve agents, the programme involved scientists from all over the Soviet Union, especially Ukraine, Armenia and Georgia, as I myself learnt when I visited the newly decommissioned Nukus testing facility in Uzbekistan in 2002.”

Ha; small wonder that ‘US 6th fleet flagship, Marines flock to Ukraine for massive Sea Breeze war games (PHOTO, VIDEO)’, via RT today.

30 vessels, dozens of combat jets and around 3,000 troops from 19 nations have been deployed to Ukrainian waters to take part in massive the US-led Sea Breeze 2018 war games in the Black Sea.

The US Navy, one of the major Sea Breeze contributors, deployed command-and-control vessel USS ‘Mount Whitney – the 6th fleet flagship, the guided missile destroyer USS ‘Porter’, a P-8A Poseidon patrol aircraft, as well as Marines and frogmen from Navy Underwater Construction Team 1.”

…which is exactly what Poroshenko had asked Jens Stoltenberg for at the Nato summit this week as an ‘aspirational partner under NATO’s umbrella’.  (No matter how many times the IMF lends ‘em the dues, they just can’t seem to pony up enough hryvnia to get admitted to the club…fully.  But you might think another item the two just might discover at the Summit is why the hell the Great Orange One extorted more and more money from the member nations and wanna-be nations to…make war on Russia at the NATO Summit.

July 14, Kyiv Post: UkrInform: British military train over 11,000 Ukrainian soldiers

I dunno, here’s the Kyiv Post’s Ukraine tab; too much fun stuff to bring, not limited to ‘Ukraine amends anti-graft court bill to meet IMF demands’, grin.

Now are any of you convinced that the White Helmets, psyop stars of stage and screen…are considering staging another ‘gas attack’ in Syria before or during the Putin-Trump summit?  Or that the neo-nazis is Ukraine won’t make attacks on Donbass or Crimea?

You’re likely understandably tired of reading, I’m tired of copy/pasting, so I’ll forgo bringing all of the links to the many ‘we know all’ opinion-makers who’ve gamed the outcome of the Summit.

But the likeliest one I’ve seen comes from Pepe Escobar’s July 5 at the atimes.com: Eagle-meets-Bear and the Syria tug-of-war, Trump and Putin are likely to discuss the tricky situation in southern Syria when they meet; while the US president says he wants US forces back home, the CIA, Pentagon and Israel may be happier to see them stay so the war-torn state remains unstable’

…and let it go at that.   It’s one the few prognostications that doesn’t include ‘sell out Iran for Israel’, plus people sincerely do talk to Pepe given his vast knowledge of the geopolitics and realpolitik of the area.

It’s certain that there will be more to add ahead of the Monday Summit.

(cross-posted from Café Babylon)

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Comments

wendy davis's picture

assange is worth a thousand of your ilk; maybe two thousand, you hypocrite.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Although I find it funny how they always tell us we must wait for the evidence when it's not in their favor, and when it shows up it always contradicts the stuff they wanted us to act on immediately.

The Ratchet of the Mind. Remember when Hillary's Emails referred to another war that didn't happen instead of a war that absolutely MUST happen?

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

wendy davis's picture

@detroitmechworks

but more like 'wait for the evidence until we can get our stories straight', but who needs evidence when '99% of the world agrees it's likely it was putin/roosians because...er...putin's a dictator thug, and b at MOA is a troll, according to marcy wheeler at emptywheel. actually, i found her on rachel madcow's twitter thing, which is where i'd found the xeni jardin spinning out of control.

her hits on assange (the atlantic, i believe) have been epic, as have they at the intercept and the guardian, where luke harding can tell a roosian email by the frequent use of certain emoticons. not a few good analysts have noted that if roosian intel were involved, they wouldn't be nearly as...sloppy to leave actual fingerprints.

on edit: no, which red queen emails about which wars should/shouldn't? sorry to be such a thick-wit.

also, emptywheel's "i spoke to the fbi because...this david ingnatius piece was about to happen and is an attack on amerika". wth? bernhard had called it quite dubious, as it's simply an israeli wish list.

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detroitmechworks's picture

@wendy davis Bernie did his job well when he turned them into a joke.

Because the idea was that if we moved past them we could have a debate on the issues... which of course were ignored, because all the other side cared about was the criminality which had been displayed.

Of course, now it's NUH UH, YOU'RE the Criminal!

Which ends up in a bad place.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

divineorder's picture

@Big Al friends from outside the US who worked there as journalists couple of years before the HK handover and who lost their jobs after the handover because they were not fluent in Mandarin and therefore would not be recognized by the Chinese government after the handover. At any rate SCMP had some good stuff but also contained quite a share of tabloid type news back then so it is very interesting to me to see this piece. [Ah, haha, just saw a side bar teaser under "Culture" link to an article about Japanese porn star starting a new girl music group so seems their formula still works for them.]

In reading was just curious about how the author got the info bolded below:

Second, before rushing into China’s arms in 2014 in the wake of the war in Ukraine, the Kremlin for the first time in history conducted an inter-agency study of potential risks of partnership with Beijing. The results have dispelled many of Moscow’s worries. As it turns out, Moscow needn’t be afraid of creeping Chinese colonisation of Siberia. The Chinese population there doesn’t exceed 300,000, and it has been decreasing following the sharp rouble devaluation.

At any rate the article makes sense in that the Russians have a reputation for gaming out action choices way ahead of short term greed focused US planners.

The article does not discuss possible China Russian collusion to end petrodollar hegemony but seems to me it could have . At any rate thanks for the links.

OT but The second link includes a great sidebar video naming names of winners and losers in a trade war with China. The big winners will be Chinese compainies who will then invest in US. Whoa!

More interesting to some in South Africa where we recently just finished our annual camping in Kruger foray will be outcomes at the next BRICS summit happening just after Trump Putin meetup.

Let the BRICS propaganda for hearts and minds games begin!

At any rate thanks for the links.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

wendy davis's picture

@Big Al

i'll try to read a bit later. i might have asked folks to bring cliffs notes along with links, but...i hadn't. but just the bits i'd read in your first link contained info that was new to me, or at least from a different perspective.

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Big Al's picture

@wendy davis Didn't think anyone would be interested anyway.
But in summary, it's not about peace and it's not about me and my family's welfare and well being and it damn sure isn't about democracy. Whether people think it's about them is up to them.

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Azazello's picture

from counterpunch:

Tragically, the global neoliberal establishment is completely powerless to stop Trump and Putin from carrying out this evil scheme (whatever it turns out to be in the end), because even the US Intelligence Community has to obey the law, after all, and not do anything sneaky, or unethical, not even with the fate of democracy at stake. No, unlike the Russians, who go around blatantly poisoning people with novichok oatmeal more or less whenever they like, the global capitalist ruling classes’ hands are tied by their own integrity. All they can do is watch in horror as these two Hitlerian megalomaniacs destroy their entire global empire and establish a thousand-year Putin-Nazi Reich.

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smiley7's picture

@Azazello @Azazello
directions is where the master class wishes us to be; no need doing its bidding.

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mimi's picture

@smiley7

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mimi's picture

@Azazello
that should be "Poutain-Nazi Reich".

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wendy davis's picture

@mimi

bloody whore? wouldda worked w/ hopkins' polemical satire, eh?

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@wendy davis

Or were they afraid of offending Canada by insulting the national dish? Biggrin

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

wendy davis's picture

@Azazello

appalling that the librul ny slimes would go so wild on putin-trump brokeback mountain themes; fancy if fox news had done so! thanks for bringing it.

but then hopkins had penned this faux-apology a week later, lol.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

Steven Cohen:

As a rule, American presidents have departed for summits with bipartisan support and well-wishes. Trump’s upcoming meeting with Russian President Putin, in Helsinki on July 16, is profoundly different in two respects. US-Russian relations have rarely, if ever, been more dangerous. And never before has a president’s departure—in Trump’s case, first for a NATO summit and then the one with Putin—been accompanied by allegations that he is disloyal to the United States and thus cannot be trusted, defamations once issued only by extremist fringe elements in American politics. Now, however, we are told this daily by mainstream publications, broadcasts, and “think tanks.” According to a representative of the Clintons’ Center for American Progress, “Trump is going to sell out America and its allies.” The New York Times and The Washington Post also feature “experts”—they are chosen accordingly—who “worry” and “fear” that Trump and Putin “will get along.” The Times of London, a bastion of Russophobic Cold War advocacy, captures the mainstream perspective in a single headline: “Fears Grow Over Prospect of Trump ‘Peace Deal’ with Putin.”

An anti-“peace” Washington establishment is, of course, what still-unproven Russiagate allegations have wrought, as summed up by a New York magazine writer who advises us that the Trump-Putin summit may well be “less a negotiation between two heads of state than a meeting between a Russian-intelligence asset and his handler.” The charge is hardly original, having been made for months at MSNBC by the questionably credentialed “intelligence expert” Malcolm Nance and the, it seems, selectively informed Rachel Maddow, among many other “experts.” Considering today’s perilous geopolitical situation, it is hard not to conclude that much of the American political establishment, particularly the Democratic Party, would prefer trying to impeach Trump to averting war with Russia, the other nuclear superpower. For this too, there is no precedent in American history.

Do yourself a favor and read the whole thing.

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"Friends don't let friends Russiagate." - Caitlin Johnstone

lotlizard's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger  
back in the 1950s and 60s, but even they didn’t sound as crazy and hysterical as the current Democratic party and its media hangers-on.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@lotlizard @lotlizard

would flinch at the ravings of this insane clown posse.

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"Friends don't let friends Russiagate." - Caitlin Johnstone

Alligator Ed's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

And never before has a president’s departure—in Trump’s case, first for a NATO summit and then the one with Putin—been accompanied by allegations that he is disloyal to the United States and thus cannot be trusted, defamations once issued only by extremist fringe elements in American politics. Now, however, we are told this daily by mainstream publications, broadcasts, and “think tanks.” According to a representative of the Clintons’ Center for American Progress, “Trump is going to sell out America and its allies.”

Russiagate forever--at least until Trump fulfills his promise to jail the Bitch and her consorts. Will he do it? The prosecution AND sentencing of HRC, Bubba AND Hussein will prove which side he is on. This plot has yet to unfold completely.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Alligator Ed

Pure Dim/Hillbot propaganda

What is? Cohen's article?

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"Friends don't let friends Russiagate." - Caitlin Johnstone

Alligator Ed's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger Smile

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@Alligator Ed

because you're missing Cohen's point.

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"Friends don't let friends Russiagate." - Caitlin Johnstone

Alligator Ed's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger I did read further in the article.

Also not surprisingly, and unlike in the past, mainstream media have found little place for serious discussion of today’s dangerous conflicts between Washington and Moscow: regarding nuclear-weapons-imitation treaties, cyber-warfare, Syria, Ukraine, Eastern Europe, the Black Sea region, even Afghanistan. It’s easy to imagine how Trump and Putin could agree on conflict-reduction and cooperation in all of these realms. But considering the traducing by the Post, Times, and Maddow of a group of senators who visited Moscow around July 4, it’s much harder to see how the defamed Trump could implement such “peace deals.” (There is a long history of sabotaging or attempting to sabotage summits and other détente-like initiatives. Indeed, a few such attempts have been evident in recent months and more may lie ahead.)

Senators Warner, Markey, Menendez, and two others have criticized the Trump-Putin summit before he even left Brussels--ostensibly about the 12 Russians newly indicted by the Swan. Of course, all their noise is but a continuation of Killary's disastrous face-saving fable. But even their dissonance will have an effect. Madcow has already amplified their braying, by interviewing Mrs. Kagan, aka Victoria Nuland.

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wendy davis's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

i will read it later, but after having covered the Nato summit this week (mainly by storify), clearly it's still a hegemonic alliance against roosia, w/ a few tweaks admitting colombia necessitating some new acronym. but still, there was trump extorting more money from europe as 'in your own interests against a russian war against you', while bitch-slapping mutti merkel for signing onto the Evil nordstream gas pipeline. the man's a nutbar, no doubt, and mercurial as anyone i've ever witnessed. FP by contradictory Tweets?

Nato should be laid to rest. and cohen knows how easily this iteration of the cold war...might become hot war. ooopsie, i'd meant 'putin apologist' dr. stephen cohen, of course.

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mimi's picture

@wendy davis

do have some respect for the "Muttis". Just saying...

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wendy davis's picture

@mimi

as i remember it, even merkel's adherents cll her 'mutti merkel', or were you just kinda teasing?

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mimi's picture

@wendy davis @wendy davis
that you had to ask me if I was teasing.

You can like the Mutti or not, she has a fine way of hiding her sarcasm and is therefore teasing quite some people into confusing directions, which then reveal where they stand and not reveal too clearly where she stands. That amuses me.

Simply said I like her. But not her party. And I like her husband even more, if I may say so. Smile

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Pluto's Republic's picture

Looks delicious. Where to start?

Now are any of you convinced that the White Helmets, psyop stars of stage and screen…are considering staging another ‘gas attack’ in Syria before or during the Putin-Trump summit? Or that the neo-nazis is Ukraine won’t make attacks on Donbass or Crimea?

Historically, the fake chemical attacks are timed carefully to immediately follow any public announcement (or aside) out of Trump's mouth telling Assad to do his thing because "the US is moving on." Within 48 hours, at most, there is a false flag attack and Nikki Haley's hair bursts into flame. I think any of us are qualified to make that call at the precise moment something to that effect is uttered at the Summit. Drink!

While it makes perfect sense that Syria would be on the Summit menu, I don't think Hillary's pet project in Syria is a pressing topic. I mean, what difference, at this point, does it make? It's an open book and I think we all know how it is going to end. Although I do wonder if Trump knows that he was crowned "The World's Biggest Fool" when he helped to deplete the US store of Tomahawk missiles after the Neocons talked him into firing 59 of them at an abandoned airport in Syria following a false-flag chemical weapon attack in that sovereign nation. Not only did a large number of the missiles disappear into thin air before they hit their target, but Trump managed to commit a spectacular war crime in the process. If those dummies in Congress operated under the Rule of Law, they could have impeached him then. I wonder if they gave Trump a little remote control trigger to pull in the War Room? I bet they did.

I have no problem envisioning Ukraine's NeoNazi elite attacking Donbass in the East. It's what they do. Since Donbass has never attacked the NeoNazis in Kiev in the West (nor has Russia for that matter) it would be refreshing to see a little parity in the Ukrainian game. But that won't happen. As for an attack on Crimea, like all bullies, the NeoNazis are cowards at heart. So they wouldn't dare. At best, they might try to blow up a power substation in a Donbass suburb and turn out Crimea's lights for fifteen minutes or so.

Otherwise, I'm not sure what Trump and Putin would have to talk about regarding Crimea. That story is over. I even have the t-shirt. There's only one thing to discuss regarding Ukraine and that is to determine when the NeoNazis are finally going to uphold their side of Minsk II that they signed along with France, Germany, and Russia, so that everyone can start ignoring them again and let the IMF work their terrible magic. The ball's been in Kiev's court for four long years.

At a summit in Minsk on 11 February 2015, the leaders of Ukraine, Russia, France, and Germany agreed to a package of measures to alleviate the ongoing war in the Donbass region of Ukraine. The talks that led to the deal, overseen by the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe (OSCE), were organised in response to the collapse of the Minsk Protocol ceasefire in January–February 2015. The new package of measures is intended to revive the Protocol, which had been agreed to on 5 September 2014.

I believe the Helsinki Summit will cover different territory altogether. There's one thing that Trump doesn't understand, no one will tell him, and he can't find the information anywhere. And that happens to be something that Putin knows more about than anyone else in the world. I'm guessing that's that's a large part of what this is all about. Meanwhile, I'm making a side bet that Netanyahu will show up, live or digitally, to hang with the big dogs. Anyone?

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wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

i suppose you’re right about the timing of the false flag gas attacks, but it’s good that you may have been alluding to the fact that Boss Tweets FP tweets can contradict themselves in a matter of hours (maybe due what he hadn’t burped up of his most recent meals, or the gases churning in his congested gut?)

hasn’t he been all over the map as far as ‘assad must go’, ‘no, we’re not out to replace him, just to make sure he meds his ways’? but then, who knows how much his generals, pompeo, and bolton hold sway over his Tweets? and i dunno that we’ll here much but a sort-joint presser after the summit, do you think? so...a false flag gas attack of more Novichok! might have to do, as at least the former T has been quoted (up yonder) as having roosian finger prints on them.

now i’d think his shooting off those 59 tomahawks are exactly MAGA, and why the war manufacturers love him! they’ll all need to be replaced, and the Dems grifted him how many more billions for war than he’d even asked for? (wish i could remember the figure, i keep having to bingle it over and over.) but becuz: russia and the many proxy wars.

well said on the minsk agreements, thanks for the reminder, but isn’t it ALWAYS the crimeans in russia uniforms, driving old russian tanks, who always fail to keep to the agreement’ (according to the osce, as i remember it. putin has judiciously stayed away from those ‘wars’, but one thing that might prove as a bargaining chip is that according to phil butler writing at new eastern outlook at the end of june:

“In news from beleaguered Ukraine, the country’s Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak is begging for nice, new anti-aircraft systems from U.S. President Donald Trump. Now that the Poroshenko government has secured (amerikan) Javelin anti-tank weapons, the way is cleared for creating a pre-NATO bastion for the American hegemony.

Make no mistake, Trump’s next move will be attempting to sell (or give) advanced fighters and anti-aircraft hardware to Kiev. The precedent has been set, and the argument will once again be “self-defense”.

zo...i dunno; guess it depends, but again: ‘jobs for raytheon, northrup grumman, et.al.
(goddam, i wish i could think and type faster; i’ve been at this comment for 30 minutes, lol.)

“And that happens to be something that Putin knows more about than anyone else in the world”: the world is now and will be henceforth multipolar, and that there are new currncies besides the amerikan dollar afoot?

on edit: fun stuff about bibi being there. would that suit rachel madhowl? somebody's be in the room w/ them two lovers!

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@wendy davis

but isn’t it ALWAYS the crimeans in russia uniforms, driving old russian tanks, who always fail to keep to the agreement’

Heh. I don't think so.

Crimea is filled with the Russian Navy and has been for 200 years. So any Russian uniforms you see there are active duty. Meanwhile, no guns were fired in Crimea at any point relative to its reunification with Russia. Plus, they don't need any old Soviet tanks. There are plenty of shiny new Russian tanks for joyriding. Crimea is not part of Minsk II. Nor is it part of Ukraine.

hasn’t he been all over the map as far as ‘assad must go’, ‘no, we’re not out to replace him, just to make sure he meds his ways’? but then, who knows how much his generals, pompeo, and bolton hold sway over his Tweets? and i dunno that we’ll here much but a sort-joint presser after the summit, do you think?

I call the firing of the Tomahawks the "April Fool's Day Coup" and mark it as the day the Neocons seized control over the US government international arm which includes the State Department and Pentagon and the selection of relative appointments including the president's advisors. Make no mistake, Trump is still a loose cannon on the ship of state, but I believe he takes his orders from the Neocons every morning and spends his day redacting everything he blurted the day before. I'm sure they are all frustrated and I think Trump goads them by getting it wrong every time and his defiance in general.

But sure, there'll be some kind of post-summit appearance. Putin will only appear if it is in Russia's best interest, but I imagine the Russian people are excited and hopeful that the cray-cray has been neutralized and a communication foundation has been built going forward. The United States is becoming increasingly erratic as it begins to realize its empire is dead. In any case, I don't think specifics of their meeting will be discussed. There will be platitudes. When I said:

There's one thing that Trump doesn't understand, no one will tell him, and he can't find the information anywhere. And that happens to be something that Putin knows more about than anyone else in the world.

I was referring to a different kind of topic: How the US espionage system really works, what a President can do to protect himself, and who is who on his staff and in the US intelligent agencies. Who are his friends and who are his enemies. Who is dangerous and who is sane.

It's the only way Trump can get a clear-eyed get a grip on what's going on in his coup government.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Pluto's Republic I believe that the second scalping of Al-Shahrya air base (with Tomahawk missiles) represented a pre-negotiated Trump-Putin accord that the attack was merely symbolic, done to appease the Neocons without inflicting the damage the Neocons believed Trump should deliver. Plus, as you say, the MIC needs to replace spent parts. That satisfies the MIC, but not the Neocons who howled, via MSM, that the attack didn't do enough damage.

I was referring to a different kind of topic: How the US espionage system really works, what a President can do to protect himself, and who is who on his staff and in the US intelligent agencies. Who are his friends and who are his enemies. Who is dangerous and who is sane.

Sanity is a relative term--sane compared to whom? Is there sanity yet present in Amerikkkan politics? Then again, if you think Q has any value, which I do, you might perceive of an Orange-faced man in 1600 Pennsylvania who is already surrounded by tons of military intelligence (MI), bolstered by a loyal-to-Trump NSA who are in the process of tightening the noose of the Cabal, Deep State, or whatever name you choose appropriate for his enemies.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Alligator Ed

Sanity is a relative term--sane compared to whom? Is there sanity yet present in Amerikkkan politics? Then again, if you think Q has any value, which I do, you might perceive of an Orange-faced man in 1600 Pennsylvania who is already surrounded by tons of military intelligence (MI), bolstered by a loyal-to-Trump NSA who are in the process of tightening the noose of the Cabal, Deep State, or whatever name you choose appropriate for his enemies.

For Q, I see neither motive nor goal. With no apparent strategy, I set him aside without prejudice. The NSA is a different story. They have DARPA-like qualities that make them more interesting and geeky. They are not exactly onboard with RusssiaGate. Where the FBI has to get a warrant, they don't. They sit above the entire apparatus. That's what makes Snowden's revelations so meaningful and wise. You're right. Their motives should be factored in.

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wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

yes, minsk is about the donbass, but as to uniforms and old soviet tanks, i may have bought the propaganda, but as w/ debunking the white helmets, bana, by photos and videos, back in the day...so did russian-speaking reporters like graham phillips reporting from ukraine. sadly, comically, all his tweets are about fifa lately, but then he'd gotten deported from ukraine twice already. (pardon my halts, i'm listening to the presser, and always have a hard time decoding audio into my brain pan. i'm sure the (ahem) salient points will be covered by unbiased media...syria now.

T: we're both talking to Izreeeel, and will continue to help Izreeeel. we'll help the people on a humanitarian basis.

lost on putin's long answer w/ his voice and the translator speaking at once.
the ball is in his court' (ha, ha, a world cup metaphor)

more Qs on russian interference in 'our election' when 16 intel agencies conclude'...

T: putin has offered to have his intel folks come and look at the evidence of the 12 indicted 'hackers'.

it's over; on the right sidebar it says the guardian has it live, zo...guess luke harding will be weighing in soon, smile.

but they had spoken about nuclear reduction talks, T saying that between the two nations they have 90% of the world's nukes. offhand, that doesn't sound right.

but here's maurice schleepen reporting from novo-russia on twitter. fake news? i sincerely doubt it, but...i admit to bias from past experience.

ack, i'd forgotten to just make an answer on my word do, so...as ever, i forget what else you'd said. later, perhaps.

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wendy davis's picture

@Pluto's Republic

and tanks, save wondering whose reports you'd read, but IF you mean that putin knows about CIA vault 7 and obfuscations on point of origin of emails, then...yes, say binney and ray mcgovern, smile.

gotta go chronicle the fallout at the end of the comment stream now.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@wendy davis

Make no mistake, Trump’s next move will be attempting to sell (or give) advanced fighters and anti-aircraft hardware to Kiev. The precedent has been set, and the argument will once again be “self-defense”.

Regardless of place or circumstance, Trump is a businessman.--Selling, not donating--arms is business. Looking for charity? You won't find it in Trump's USG!

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wendy davis's picture

@Alligator Ed

i think i'd said so up yonder somewhere, perhaps re: the tomahawks? i remember seeing a lee cam (not a fan, i admit) at RT saying close to: 'trump drops a bomb every fifteen minute and no one is talking about it'. dunno if it's so, never clicked in, but i doubt that he gave Obomba's bombing rates a mention.

trump kills more people than obomba did? maybe so, but O's was the template for that particular War Crime. 'never walk in a military fashion', remember that? (even if you're herding your family's goats on a trail in afghanistan...) blam! bug splat!

on edit: caveat: IF trump (and Nato) want crimea (and georgia) as permanent members of nato (which nato does)...he might make a deal with kyev for fighter jets, yada, yada.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@wendy davis is patent fairy dust, soaked in Fentanyl. Ain't gonna happen. Vlad is no Yeltsin

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Alligator Ed

Vlad is no Yeltsin

Losing Crimea is unthinkable on the geopolitical scale. (Losing the Russian Navy's only European port would cut it off from all its allies. That will never happen.)

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divineorder's picture

Heh.

Came across this while scanning Twitter search for 'summit' where sure enough 90% were attacking Trump, calling for him to cancel etc. :

...

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

mimi's picture

@divineorder
TV here in Germany. And I won't look out to watch more than some most troubling links to them I run in here.

Suffocating in idiocies. No way.

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wendy davis's picture

@mimi

i've seen more honest interviews on chris wallace's show than most of the 'progressive shows, at least when i watched teevee a decade ago.

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mimi's picture

@wendy davis
other Folks, which have been made going. Times bygone. Just memories.
Just made the remark because I enjoy a little less hot air fuming blond or Brown haired ladies and silvergrey-ish distinguished talking head-hossts here than I saw back then over there.

Nothing for Ungood.

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wendy davis's picture

@mimi

b at moonofalabama.org, july 10: ‘German Parliament Report: U.S. Presence in Syria Is Illegal’ *and* he has the pdf in german.

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wendy davis's picture

@divineorder

"no holds barred!

Wallace said he will ask Putin about Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election and potential meddling in the upcoming midterm elections. In addition, Wallace said he will ask the Russian president about the summit with Trump and where the two sides stand on contentious issues like NATO, Syria and Ukraine."

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k9disc's picture

Are you serious!

She brought out Nuland! As an affirmative... my god we've jumped the shark.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

wendy davis's picture

@k9disc

and glad you appreciate MSNDC the bernaysian psy-op importance of it.

daniel lazare calls it 'Corporate Media’s About-Face on Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis' at consortium news, but obviouly not all corporate news is monolithic. but he does offer plenty of caveats, and yes: the neo-nazis are marching often and widely. it was gonna be one of my next diaries, but (lol) all my links are about 12 word documents back, dagnabbit.

but i particularly enjoyed that he's quoted the dim-witted, putin bashing, julian assange murdering Luke Harding:

"The Guardian’s Luke Harding – a leading Putin basher – said of the far-right Svoboda Party:

“Over the past decade the party appears to have mellowed, eschewing xenophobia, academic commentators suggest. On Monday, the U.S. ambassador in Kiev, Geoffrey Pyatt, said he had been ‘positively impressed’ by Svoboda’s evolution in opposition and by its behavior in the Rada, Ukraine’s parliament. ‘They have demonstrated their democratic bona fides,’ the ambassador asserted.”

wot? fewer rumbles in the rada? fiddlesticks; i forgot to see if he'd quoted masha gessen! (amy goodman seems to love her and rebecca solnit.) ah well, so little time, so many fools to contend with...

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The clip between Maddow and Nuland was gross propaganda with themes of war and aggression and victimhood by spunky little USA. And this is the talk in mass media outlets, not fringe outlets. It is setting the background, priming the soil, for the justification and acceptance of war. Putin and the Russian people are being demonized in the same ways the Slavic peoples and Jews were by the real German Nazis.

If a democrat wins the White House in 2020, he or she will need to prove they can stand up to Putin and that means WAR. Talking with Putin is criminal and treasonous. The democratic president whether through their own voliation or by pressure from the pro-war democratic party base, will engage in a shoot out with Russia. My guess is most likely Syria or Ukraine. And from there, escalation.

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wendy davis's picture

@MrWebster @MrWebster

if i offload a few things from the twittersphere i've found, even knowing that most information from a particular 'source' is akin to propaganda. for some reason, though, i can't get the embed codes to load, i've hit 'error' four times now, even decreasing the number to two tweets. let me see what happens if i just past in the raw urls. my eyes are kinda crossed by now.

https://twitter.com/NovaShpakova/status/1018482541383348224
https://twitter.com/RusEmbUSA/status/1017902781640904706
https://twitter.com/mperelman/status/1017512939773988865
https://twitter.com/MauriceSchleepe/status/1018090914760351745

one confusing tweet i tracked down bingling, and found:

‘Talks with NATO on UN mission confirm Kiev’s intention to solve conflict by force — DPR, July 13, ‘Earlier on Thursday, on the sidelines of a NATO summit in Brussels, the military alliance and Ukraine discussed prospects for a UN mission’s deployment to Donbas’

ach, i've lost the quotes, but still...

on later edit; i can't even embed one at a time; must be something peculiar w/ the code.

first one is 'onslaught against the donbass',
second is lavrov on larry king and 'the current status of crimea';
third is 'Exclusive:Ukraine president Petro #Poroshenko claims after meeting #Trump that official US position,confirmed by Trump, is that #Crimea is Ukrainian' and he’s not afraid at all Trump will bargain Crimea with Putin in Helsinki summit;
fourth is 'Operational Command of the #DPR,#Ukraine regime forces are planning to intensify the shelling on #Donetsk,#DPR territory on the eve of the meeting between #Russian President #Putin and the #US President,#Trump

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@wendy davis Will keep watch on several of the posters. The ones on the Donbass. I think the Ukraine regime is trying to goad Russia into a major military action just like the Georgian idiots did. So the US can have reason to interfer.

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wendy davis's picture

@MrWebster

but my spidey senses sense something's up. i still don't think russia will be lured into war,but coupled with this from phil butler at neo:

"“In news from beleaguered Ukraine, the country’s Defense Minister Stepan Poltorak is begging for nice, new anti-aircraft systems from U.S. President Donald Trump. Now that the Poroshenko government has secured (amerikan) Javelin anti-tank weapons, the way is cleared for creating a pre-NATO bastion for the American hegemony.

Make no mistake, Trump’s next move will be attempting to sell (or give) advanced fighters and anti-aircraft hardware to Kiev. The precedent has been set, and the argument will once again be “self-defense”.

and with poroshenko issuing diktats to privatize all the ag land for sale to amerikan investors (monsanto, so i guess bayer, now, already has big holdings there), and pierre omidyar had invested heavily in the maidan putsch, there may be some fukkery afoot soon.

but after witnessing what happened there (the 'ukraine on fire' documentary told some of the story), i wouldn't put anything past the neo-nazis and kiev. burning people alive in the trade union hall in odessa was pure evil.

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ggersh's picture

@MrWebster @MrWebster and if so we caught the fish

Talking with Putin is criminal and treasonous.

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-07-15/former-cia-officer-clinton-inv...

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“We now live in a nation where doctors destroy health, lawyers destroy justice, universities destroy knowledge, governments destroy freedom, the press destroys information, religion destroys morals, and our banks destroy the economy”
Chris Hedges

wendy davis's picture

@ggersh

thanks for the reminder.

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wendy davis's picture

with mr. wd to watch endeavor morse and the tunnel on pbs.

sometimes it's the little joys in life that can keep your spirits up. today it was arranging loads of flowers from our wee garden in vases, seeing two large bucks in velvet, both w/ four points but altogether different configurations... saunter through. and lo and behold: the first monarch butterfly who's visited in two years!

sweet dreams if you can manage it; if not, i hope your dreams are at least instructive.

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wendy davis's picture

on edit: the guardian live-blogged the presser.

putin said he'd wanted trump to win, he'd spoken about normalizing amerikarn/russian relations. and yes, he had.

this is interesting though, think 'fly-on-the-wall':

“Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov has met US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo in Helsinki, according to the ministry’s official twitter account. Earlier Pompeo stressed that a better relationship with the Russian government “would benefit all, but the ball is in Russia’s court.” The meeting comes on the sidelines of the much-anticipated summit between Vladimir Putin and Donald Trump in the Finnish capital aimed at improving a sour relationship between the two nations.”

lavrov is a patient diplomat . pompeo is bellicosity trined.

the comments and evidence! on the guardian's live blog are to be expected, i reckon.

"US-russian relations have never been worse....until 2 hours ago"

Putin doesn't deny he has compromising information on Trump
Lemire, the AP journalist, now asks about Crimea, something neither of the men had yet mentioned in the press conference.
Putin says Trump “continues to maintain that it was illegal to annex it. Our viewpoint is different.”
Then, Putin responds to Lemire’s question on whether or not he has comprising information on the US president. “

@SmithInAmerica
“Asked if he has compromising material on Trump, Putin replies: "I did hear these rumours. When President Trump visited Moscow back then, I didn't even know he was in Moscow... Nobody informed me that he was in Moscow... Please disregard these issues."

“Trump said: “If they had it, it would have been out long ago.”That was the last question of the press conference, which has ended”

@CahnEmily
"Putin DOES NOT DENY that he has compromising material on Trump. He merely says that Putin didn't know Trump was in Moscow."
9:56 AM - Jul 16, 2018

jeebus, do they not know funny putin is?

from the atlantic already: 'This Is the Moment of Truth for Republicans; The GOP can either defend the United States or serve the damaged and defective man who is now its president., James Fallows

"There are exactly two possible explanations for the shameful performance the world witnessed on Monday, from a serving American president.

Either Donald Trump is flat-out an agent of Russian interests—witting, unwitting, from fear of blackmail, in hope of future deals, out of manly respect for Vladimir Putin, out of gratitude for Russia's help during the election, out of pathetic inability to see beyond his 306 electoral votes—whatever the exact mixture of motives might be, it doesn't really matter.

Or he is so profoundly ignorant, insecure, and narcissistic not to realize that, at every step, he was advancing the line that Putin hoped he would advance, and the line that the American intelligence, defense, and law-enforcement agencies most dreaded.

Conscious tool. Useful idiot. Those are the choices, though both possibly true—the main question is the proportions."

now what i'd thought i'd heard putin say was that it could have been some russian company involved, like __(indistinguishable), but the russian state had nothing to do with it.

two evil dictators meet and agree to talk more in the future: heresy.

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wendy davis's picture

the two leaders shook hands and within minutes went behind closed doors. after allowing enough time enough for trump to fellate putin, two translators were called into the room; talks ensued for over two hours.

"Neither leader revealed what was discussed. But in advance of the talks, Trump listed a series of topics that did not include Russian meddling in the 2016 presidential election.

"We have not been getting along well for the last number of years," Trump said after arriving at the Presidential Palace in Finland's capital, where the leaders are meeting. "But I think we will end up having an extraordinary relationship. ... I really think the world wants to see us get along."

"Addressing reporters before the one-on-one meeting, Putin struck a casual pose during Trump's remarks, slouching in his chair with his legs wide and eyes low. He nodded along to some of Trump's remarks before they were translated, showcasing his fluency in English. Trump leaned forward in his chair, his hands tented in front of him and frequently glanced over at the Russian president. At one point, he shot Putin a wink. After Trump concluded his remarks, American reporters shouted several questions about whether he would bring up election meddling during his discussions with Putin.

Trump did not respond; Putin appeared to smirk."

Putin, for his part, said he and Trump have maintained regular contact through phone calls and meetings at international events but "the time has come to have a thorough discussion on various international problems and sensitive issues." He added: "There are quite a few of them for us to pay attention to."

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wendy davis's picture

the transcript of the press conference is here.

'Putin says his meeting with Trump was more substantive than expected’ July 17, Touching on the topics raised at the summit, Putin said they had discussed all problems of mutual interest, such as the situation in Syria and in the entire region, and Ukrainian crisis [he and boss tweet disagree], tass.com

“Another topic for discussion, in his words, was "Russia’s mythical interference into US elections." He once again denied both Moscow’s involvement in such actions and its plans to do it in future.

Apart from that, he said they had discussed Iran’s nuclear program. Russia’s position on that matter remains unchanged, he stressed. "We think that the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) is an instrument facilitating nuclear non-proliferation in general and in that region in particular," Putin explained. "It would be a pity should this instrument cease to exist." did they talk about amerika having pulled out of the ABM treaty?

post summit bellicosity (from the guardian):

"John Brennan, a former director of the CIA, tweeted: “Donald Trump’s press conference performance in Helsinki rises to & exceeds the threshold of ‘high crimes & misdemeanors.’ It was nothing short of treasonous. Not only were Trump’s comments imbecilic, he is wholly in the pocket of Putin.”

John McCain, chairman of the Senate armed services committee and a former Republican presidential nominee, said: “Today’s press conference in Helsinki was one of the most disgraceful performances by an American president in memory. The damage inflicted by President Trump’s naivety, egotism, false equivalence, and sympathy for autocrats is difficult to calculate. But it is clear that the summit in Helsinki was a tragic mistake.”
Chuck Schumer, the Democratic minority leader in the Senate, said: “In the entire history of our country, Americans have never seen a president of the United States support an American adversary the way President Trump has supported President Putin.

“For the president of the United States to side with President Putin against American law enforcement, American defence officials, and American intelligence agencies is thoughtless, dangerous, and weak. The president is putting himself over our country.”

And Jeff Flake, a Republican senator from Arizona, tweeted: “I never thought I would see the day when our American President would stand on the stage with the Russian President and place blame on the United States for Russian aggression. This is shameful.”
For his part, Putin acknowledged that he had wanted Trump to win the 2016 election but reiterated his denial of meddling. Speaking through an interpreter, he said: “We should be guided by facts. Can you name a single fact that would definitively prove collusion? This is utter nonsense. Just like the president recently mentioned.”

“This is bizarre and flat-out wrong. The United States is not to blame. America wants a good relationship with the Russian people but Vladimir Putin and his thugs are responsible for Soviet-style aggression. When the President plays these moral equivalence games, he gives Putin a propaganda win he desperately needs.”

“In the entire history of our country, Americans have never seen a president of the United States support an American adversary the way President Trump has supported President Putin,” Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer said in a statement. “For the president of the United States to side with President Putin against American law enforcement, American defense officials, and American intelligence agencies is thoughtless, dangerous and weak. The president is putting himself over our country.”

from wsws today:
“..New York Times columnist Charles Blow headlined “Trump, Treasonous Traitor” published on the morning of the meeting, which accused Trump of “committing an unbelievable and unforgivable crime against this country …”

.... CNN’s anchor in Helsinki, Anderson Cooper, an heir to the Vanderbilt fortune who interned with the CIA before going into television news, announced to his viewers that they had been “watching the most disgraceful conduct by an American president…that I have ever seen.”
arrrgggh...

"New York Times foreign affairs columnist Thomas Friedman, the chief media propagandist for the Iraq war, described Trump as “an asset of Russian intelligence,”, Friedman added: “Every single Republican lawmaker will be—and should be asked on the election trail: Are you with Trump and Putin or are you with the CIA, FBI and NSA?”

yeah, those agencies wear the White Hats, don’t they? because: the mueller investigation.
but the piece de resistance came from (brrrrr) michael hayden kinda suggesting a military coup:

Michael Hayden, the former four-star Air Force general who headed both the CIA and the National Security Agency. Interviewed by National Public Radio on Monday, he condemned Trump’s statements in Helsinki and added that “mid-range officers come and ask me what do I tell my people, and that’s a really telling question.

now as to the mystery of the ‘bottle’ of novichok found after many days in charlie rowley’s house...the plot thickens (or thins as the case may be): ‘Anti-Russia campaign revived in UK with alleged discovery of “novichok” in perfume bottle’, wsws.org

“Why nothing has yet been uncovered to link Moscow to Sturgess and Rowley is diverted by references to the “hot weather” and the difficulty of working for long stretches in hazmat suits. Belying these excuses, the police announced that they had seized some 400 items at the time of finding the alleged container.

There is no innocent explanation as to why a “small bottle” was not among the first of these items to be seized and made public. Precisely this possibility was raised by BBC security correspondent Frank Gardner at the very start of the whole affair. Gardner is reported to be close to intelligence agencies and has admitted that MI6 tried to recruit him in an earlier period.

Yet only now does what is being treated as a “smoking gun” appear, with the Daily Mail headlining its article, “Pollen on bottle which contained novichok that killed mother could prove it was used by Russian agents in attack on former double agent and his daughter.

craig murray:
“The entire “liberal” media and political establishment of the Western world reveals its militarist, authoritarian soul today with the screaming and hysterical attacks on the very prospect of detente with Russia. Peace apparently is a terrible thing; a renewed arms race, with quite literally trillions of dollars pumped into the military industrial complex and hundreds of thousands dying in proxy wars, is apparently the “liberal” stance.

Political memories are short, but just 15 years after Iraq was destroyed and the chain reaction sent most of the Arab world back to the dark ages, it is now “treason” to question the word of the Western intelligence agencies, which deliberately and knowingly produced a fabric of lies on Iraqi WMD to justify that destruction.
It would be more rational for it to be treason for leaders to blindly accept the word of the intelligence services.” (the rest is here)

now fwiw, the daily mail rag actually attributes the 'perfume bottle' to:

"The brother of one of the Novichok poisoning victims has claimed that the nerve agent was found in a perfume bottle, as Britain reportedly closes in on identifying the Russian spies responsible for the attack. Mr Rowley's brother Matthew said the poison had been contained in a perfume bottle which the 45-year-old picked up, BBC News reported."

Meanwhile the New York Times reported that the Russian GRU agency is thought to be responsible for the attacks in Salisbury.' "U.K. Poisoning Inquiry Turns to Russian Agency in Mueller Indictments"

"The agency has been linked to Russia’s hybrid war in Ukraine, as well as the annexation of Crimea in 2014. It has been involved in the seizing of Syrian cities on behalf of President Bashar al-Assad. In more peaceful regions, the G.R.U. is accused of creating political turmoil, mobilizing Slavic nationalists in Montenegro and funding protests to try to prevent Macedonia’s recent name change." surreal; sounds just like the CIA posing as NED and USAID.

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wendy davis's picture

mother russia (an engineering marvel; they're working on the train portion now), but in the donbass, and you'll decide if it's so, or propaganda; there are other such:

and blimey, i'd forgotten this tweet, although i can't remember where i'd lifted it now, although it says 'russian embassy'. this one won't embed, so it's likely GRU agitprop,
https://twitter.com/EmbassyofRussia/status/1019151341871038464

but it says:
@EmbassyofRussia "President #Putin: After the terrorists are routed in southwest #Syria, in the so-called “southern zone”, the situation in the Golan Heights should be brought into full conformity with the 1974 agreement on the disengagement of Israeli and Syrian forces #GolanHeights" Jul 17, 2018 fascinating.

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