Human Creations and the Death of the Planet
I was reading a comment that stuck out to me (not on this site) from a self-described Democrat and "progressive" (which is a dead, co-opted term by neoliberal filth).
“shutting down fossil fuels”
This is precisely the kind of nonsense that loses elections. Shutting down fossil fuels means a massive increase in costs of heating buildings in cold climates. Essentially it is equivalent to a humongous tax increase on the poor and middle class anywhere where it ever snows. And it also would shut down air travel completely: All air travel is fueled by liquid fossil fuels and there are no alternatives.
This got the gears turning on our current reality. We as a species are chained to constructs that we create, not the actual reality of them.
Let's put that into a different light. Humans have created constructs and systems such as economics which must be the reality we protect. We are addicted to transportation systems and technology that makes our lives easier.
But that's not real.
Our planet is in essence dying. Species are being driven off into extinction, the planet is warming up, and we're already spiraling off into positive-feedback loops. That is real; that is our home.
But humans believe more in human-constructs such as the economy vs. the actual, tangible planet we live on. Apparently we care more about air travel than our survival as a species.
This isn't an issue of can or can't. It is an issue of will. Do we want to give up the things that are going to be our doom? The answer is no. Why? Well not only because have we become hyper-dependent upon them, but we can hide from the reality by using the excuse of our own created reality -- things such as the economy.
Look at things that either dominate conversation or news cycles. Fake scandals, meaningless pundits talking about nothing, morning news shows eating food while smiling with $3,000 pearly whites. It is all meaningless garbage. Hell, let's go beyond that.
I've listened in on topics that rich, old Democrats apparently seem to talk about. I will use two separate instances, both 1% rich, old women.
One woman went on a rant saying people need to stop talking about single payer because that won't stop a black family from getting a side-eye at a park. This woman of course was married to a hedge fund manager, nestled in her sickly privilege as people around her died. Somehow in her deluded reality, Congress would craft the Stop Side-eye Act and people would be able to freely go about their business without the fear of the monstrous side-eye.
Another woman also went on a rant about single payer (for whatever reason single payer seems popular to attack with bullshit topics) saying that single payer won't stop microaggressions and we need to stop those. Again, another 1% woman in her sickly privilege while people around her died. I guess she is waiting again for Congress to pass the Stop Microaggressions Act and people would freely live without microaggressions.
This here is our cocoon, our human reality we hide in.
Our planet is becoming uninhabitable and you want to fucking fret about someone getting a side-eye?
Our species might become extinct and you fucking worry about microaggressions?
It seems to me that humanity will just go on ignoring the problems that we have created, living in a deluded fantasy that we have also created. When the problems become too big to ignore, then people will either wonder, "Why didn't someone do something about this?" or "I guess there was nothing we could do about it."
Humanity it seems prefers false realities that we create vs. the actual reality that we all exist in.
Comments
Sadly we won't wake till it is too late
...then it will be the blame game as we go extinct. I hope I'm wrong, but as my partner says - you're annoyingly correct.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Excellent post
All I can add is that I think certain people focus on “side eye” or Microaggressions (wtf?) because these are things that they can make a show of fretting about and look like they give a damn about the greater good while ultimately knowing they’ll never have to sacrifice a thing because there’s nothing they can do about it.
Imagine if prejudice could be eliminated with money. Are we to believe these same people so concerned now would take an tax hike to rid the world of racism? Not a chance! Their concern about the world outside ends at the point where they have to be uncomfortable to change things.
I really hate this false idea that we can’t chew gum and walk at the same time, that we can’t work for equality and universal health care and economic justice and on and on. The popular notion that we shouldn’t work for X because it doesn’t solve unrelated (and often unsolvable by legislation) issue Y is just baffling to me. (Not to mention the unwillingness for so many to recognize the racism inherent in the poverty of our capitalist system.)
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
--------
Senator James Inholf was promoting a book he had written and appeared on Rachel Maddow.
"I used to believe in global warming", he said, "but then I found out the consequences so I chose not to believe it."
Elites aren't taking climate change seriously because they know something we don't. They are wealthy and powerful because of their ability to manipulate the system. They can no more imagine a system where they aren't powerful than a fish can imagine dry land.
The ones that accept anthropogenic global warming mostly don't accept abrupt climate change, and even those who do aren't convinced that it's already under way.
As Vasquez said in Aliens - "whatever you're going to do, do it fast".
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
fish imagine dry land
Don't underestimate the ability of fish to imagine dry land. They know what it is, and know they want no part of it whatsoever. Thus, they are smarter than most of today's elite humans.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Right on every point, IMO
The people's denial has always been the steepest hurdle for me, personally. Sometimes I feel like I never get around to what I intend to discuss. Instead, I spend all my effort simply establishing the fact that the other person is living on the same planet that I do and is subject to the same physical laws. Just negotiating the points of reference upon which an idea or proposal can be erected, often ends in a pointless meandering detour.
But make no mistake: It is a deliberate impasse. They are erecting and defending their denial because reality can be pretty damned uncomfortable. The climate crisis is particularly devilish since the symptoms can be explained away as anomalies. The system failure we fear comes all at once in a cascade of adversity — after it is too late.
It can be argued that denialism is a natural process in human psychology, a defense mechanism that sometimes works quite well. The way we cope with reality in a nuclear-armed world owes much to this sort of denial, until it doesn't. Denial is always driven by fear of the unknown. Fear of change. People will put up with enormous abuses in their cultural environment just so they do not have to confront their abusers, as even the Declaration of Independence pointed out.
Our rogue Intelligence Agencies learned to use the human proclivity of denial for crowd control. More difficult is manipulating everyone to act against their better instincts. That's when they must resort to extremes by staging a "Little Pearl Harbor" on occasion, followed by a relentless, fear-based propaganda narrative that programs the population with a new and unnatural paradigm that works against their own best interests. Because it is the only Plan B they know, they cling to it as tightly as they can.
But, when it comes to global warming, you have to admit the signals are strange. Who better than Our Overlords know the imminent dangers and final extinction we all face without drastic changes in our carbon production? Yet they double down on their investment in carbon-based fuels. They surely know that money won't save them once the environment turns out the lights for mammals. Yet they ignore or scoff at the looming threat.
That does that make one wonder — what do they know that I don't? Is it possible that there is no terminal threat from climate change? Is this another hoax? What's really going on here?
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
@Pluto's Republic they count on their
they count on their wealth and privilege to buy them and their offspring nice comfortable accommodations in one of the domed cities while the remnants of us slowly die off wallowing in the gothic toxic mire they created...
Just until Elon can get the orbital colonies established that is.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Can't help but think about
H. G. Wells and his Eloi and Morlocks.
The rich and powerful already have their hidey holes. And plans to dine on the survivors topside.
Hell, they're already feeding off us now.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
I think more about the movie
"Elysium"
The Dubai Towers
are said to be completely self contained with air filtration, oxygen production, and seawater de- salinisation plants built-in.
Adding domed greenhouses would not be hard to do.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
I’ve Mentioned This to You and GJohnsit Several Times Over the
Years.
The Oligarchs want to break it now while they hold the powers of production, the media megaphone, the military, the banks, our privacy, the economy, the culture, the sports organizations, law enforcement organizations, and everything else save our debt.
Break it now and they go out on top. Let it fester and die of it’s own accord, due to the failure to paint clothes on the Emperor and the confines of our planet – ecological and economical – and they wind up right atop the dustbin of history as pariahs and traitors to the human race.
I think it’s a rather simple calculus. Break it now and assume the functions of the State. Who else has the money and organization to step in when the “failed experiment of democracy” needs to be replaced?
That is the disconnect, IMO. And I’m not sure it’s entirely conscious either. I think there are various levels of understanding within the Oligarchy, but at root, most all of them know. They’re quite educated and some are quite smart.
“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu
They're nuts
They don't know anything. They're crazy. Literally. They've lost their minds, their hearts, and likely their souls.
Scary thought, isn't it? That we've given control over our lives and the planet to a bunch of out-of-control, psychopathic nutcases?
We may talk about it intellectually, but to really look, to "get it" at a gut level, to accept that fact, would require fully facing the horror of the situation.
No wonder so many people are wallowing in denial. In my observation, human beings will do just about anything to avoid facing an unpleasant reality. The more horrific the reality, the deeper the denial and delusion.
Here we are, at the very bottom of the kali yuga cycle. For those of us who are beginning to wake up, good god, what courage it is taking us to look.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Actually they stole it fair
and square. There isn't anything more valuable than a politician that stays bought. What better way to buy one than to admit them to the club. With the number of politicians kids entering politics, I think the wealthy have started a breeding program.
The New Chosen Ones
Writing their own gospel.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
A wise insight
.... .
Sometimes I make the mistake of regarding them as intellectual equals, which is misguided. At best, it's wishful thinking on my part.
You state the dilemma with perfect pitch:
.
To understand this, truly, is to accept responsibility for the future. Actually, I do accept that, along with the obligation to push hard to clear the view for others, every single day.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
quarter-truths and outright lies
Your first blockquote is a hodgepoge of quarter-truths and outright lies:
Purest bullshit.
Renewable sources of fuel gas exist and more of these are being converted to use every day. Fuel gases themselves are worse contributors to global warming than their combustion products are, so worldwide we have efforts to capture these from their sources and burn them as useful fuels. Electric heat is an option, too. When genuinely progressive candidates speak of moving from fossil fuels to their successor technologies, what they speak of is to do it by planning, rather than all at once when forced to do so. You want to talk about hardships on the poor and middle class folks, making this change all at once when forced to do so would be far worse than doing it in advance by planning.
And that's before we reckon in the majority of buildings which could heat themselves quite satisfactorily if they would just capture the solar radiation falling on them and harness that.
And that would be a bad thing?
How about starting to work on alternatives here? "There are no alternatives" because no effort has been made to find any!
The things some humans will do for cash....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Indeed, in fact it could
Indeed, in fact it could actually improve air travel.
There was a German company several years back that designed a cruise ship sized blimp that seemed amazing.
They never got off the ground though, who wants to take 2 or 3 days to cover what is only a 3 hour flight?
Well, me for starters (and almost every other tall or heavy person I imagine).
Solar powered dirigibles would be an amazing way to travel...
Those that say there are no options have no imagination.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
The Elites cannot imagine life without air travel.
The poor cannot imagine life without a car.
I'm a huge fan of public transport because I believe it is one of the building blocks of a society.
Bear with me, this gets philosophical.
The ability to travel within an area is one of the greatest freedoms available.
The greatest freedom is walking. Without fences nothing can stop you. You are tied to no supply chains, and if you are accosted, you can literally move in any direction.
The second greatest is personal transport like a bicycle. It has freedom, and while more tied to roadways, is less dependent on constant refueling and maintenance.
Third greatest is public transport. It allows far more rapid movement, and the cost is borne by all for the greater good. You surrender some of your freedom for the right to use it, but that freedom sacrifice is for the good of others. However, there is a limit for how much regulation and sacrifice a population can take before they will simply not use the public transport. Gatekeeping by price is a standard way to reduce the usage of public transport, or sheer stupidity in design, forgetting that the point is to transport people quickly and safely, not stylishly.
The weakest transport is a private vehicle. We all pay for it. It requires us all to pay for it. In war, in maintenance, in servitude. Each person who uses a car alone spits more poison into the air, and takes a huge subsidy from each of us to do so. If private vehicles were not government subsidized through numerous supports, the price would soon rise to meet its true cost.
I believe that good public transportation is what creates a true community. I see it all over and it makes my soul bleed a bit as I notice how the rail lines in Europe continue to be cannibalized, all to feed the god of privatization.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I’ve been driving this Nissan LEAF
to work every day since October 2015. It doesn’t have either a gas tank or a tailpipe. Yes it uses relatively old EV battery technology which limits its range but it’s no problem with my 18 mile one-way commute, and with newer models that’s no problem for much longer drives. If everyone who needs a car to get to work drove an EV I suspect it would make a huge dent in our need for petroleum and eliminate the biggest motive for war.
Sadly my 66-year-old legs can’t power a bicycle like they used to, and public transportation options don’t exist for me, but my EV does the trick.
Also I seem to have started a trend at work and now more and more new electric cars show up at the EV chargers all the time.
"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush
Have to respectfully disagree.
Not because of your use of the car, which I understand is a necessity in our current society.
Electric cars don't eliminate anything but the gas. It still will require subsidies for the roads, as well as continuing to prop up the separation from each other that cars engender.
In addition, it creates needs for parking, which in cities is already at a premium.
If we could make our cities carless and vastly improve our public transportation for everyone, not just those of able body, it would be a great quality of life improvement for the world at large.
Electric cars are a bandaid on a societal problem. We cannot continue to live the way we have. We can either fix the problem now, or wait until it blows up. At that point, however, we may have nothing left to fix. As long as we have this expectation of private vehicles everywhere, our entire society will continue to build around that paradigm, resulting in continuing deadly waste.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I wonder why we don’t have parking lots with solar panels
above them. The panels would offer some shelter from the heat of the sun while providing energy to charge the cars.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
They have them in some places in CA
But the scale is extremely small.
It feels like another band-aid, that doesn't address the root problem which is that American society for the most part demands that you own a vehicle. With the exception of those lucky few who live in a city with good public transport, to lack a vehicle is to be demoted to a lower caste.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
While visiting family in Tokyo, we found the trains to be
wonderful, when we even needed them. Necessities were largely within walking distance. There were instances where we needed a taxi, but no POV was needed.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
EVs are not just “band aids”
I think high speed personal transportation is here to stay. Look, would you rather drive your sick kid to the ER, or wait forever at a bus stop? Let’s get real, lives are at stake, we need cars. The choices are either planet-friendly battery powered cars or else pollution-spewing oil-burning earth rapers. Plain and simple.
"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush
You assume no medical transport
But then Ambulances and other high speed emergency transport is supposed to be part of the commons, which the current corporate government has done its absolute best to privatize and capitalize.
The problem is that as long as we continue to insist that all functions that a car currently performs in American society can ONLY be performed by an individual car, the argument ends right there, and the subject becomes closed for any solution other than a private vehicle.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Well, if we'd taken even a FRACTION of the money
. . . wasted on imperial wars/adventures during the last 18 years, and invested it instead in high speed rail systems, there certainly would be viable alternatives to air travel.
But nooooooooo . . . . we can't have such things here in the "greatest country on earth."
Such projects take too much courage and vision, qualities that are in woefully short supply among our elected, bought-and-paid for, political "leaders."
As the diarist noted: "There are no alternatives" because no effort has been made to find any!
That's right. The lack of political will in this area has been the reailty on a national level for over four decades.
Even 19th Century Rail systems would be an improvement
on the current situation. As it is, we waste nearly Thirty times the fuel to transport the same number of people as one train.
High speed is absolutely not necessary for most routes. Street cars and reinvigorated delivery services based off local service models of the early 20th would result in much lower fuel use. Yes, it would also require a slower pace of life, but at the same time, I don't see that as a problem. Especially considering that it would greatly increase local employment.
Essentially, I believe that we need to use proven things that we've abandoned before jumping onto the Music Man train of Musk and his ilk. No, it isn't as flashy or expensive, but that is exactly the point. If the rich want their high speeds and glamour, let them pay for it personally, don't tax and stress the rest of us to make it possible for them.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Respectfully disagree, Dmw
Paying short shrift to Leaf owners is not fair or wise.
While I understand your philosophical argument regarding personal cars for transportation you are inprudently discouraging replacing fossil powered cars with electric. Its much more than a bandaid.
Until we actually have a modern, viable public transportation system, run on electricity of course, the Leafs , Tesla model 3, and other all electric vehicles will cut pollution, cut into the profits of big oil, and produce less wear and tear on our hiways and bridges.
The potential for carpooling remains the same as gas powered cars.
And the peripheral products gumming up our landfills in the form of gas filters, oil filters, spark plugs, air cleaners, and especially oil changes, often dumped into storm gutters or in the back yard are significantly reduced.
And I truly believe for ever gallon of gas I DON'T buy saves a life in the Middle East.
Certainly, your suggestion to eliminate the personal vehicle is a commendable one. But so is returning to a strictly rural agrarian lifestyle of never having to leave the farm, except for a doctor or dentist visit.
Hell, we wouldn't even have to visit H &R Block anymore. Haha
Yes, having millions more 3000 pound electric cars is much preferred over the 9000 pound two seat pick up trucks that now dominate our hiways and "roll coal" at those of us that are at least trying to help our world.
We should be encouraging, not discouraging the use of all electric vehicles
And this, from a lifelong motorhead who loves the sound of a finely tuned high powered racing engine, does not come easy, knowing the demise of NASCAR as we know it.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Thanks for the reasonable disagreement.
And no offense taken or meant.
I absolutely agree that we need to get gasoline powered vehicles off the roads and folks that do deserve praise.
However, individual responses to societal problems, while noble and praiseworthy, aren't going to solve a societal problem.
My issue is that by relegating this to a "Buy the right kind of car" we're abrogating the societal need to do something for a Laissez-faire patchwork which will solve nothing.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I understand your point there, Dmw
It closely follows something I read at Breitbart in a study showing climate deniers are actually better stewards of the environment than climate realists through a process called "self licensing".
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2018/05/06/shock-study-climate-s...
It would be nice if everyone could work within walking distance.
Better, no one had to work at all. You know, like rich people.
Peace bro.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
I would throw in
mopeds,small motorcycles and those 2 seater, 3 wheelers. Mopeds can get 60, 70 mpg. When the tech gets there electrics can be swapped in. 1 or 2 hp can get you around locally pretty well.
Humans are stupid. As a species, they deserve to die.
Too bad the ones with functioning brains have to go with them.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I'm at your disposal.
The american empire, backed by the petro/war dollar has seen it's zenith. The greater powers of this planet have decided to create their own trading systems, without influence from western spheres. It is no shock to see countries standing up to empirical forces. People want to live in peace and moderate prosperity. So FUKUS is in decline. The more rational, less greedy leaders are finessing out of the deal during this winter of discontent. NATO is stuck with the paymasters, until the dollar collapse. Then it will be sold to the highest bidder. Diplomacy is dead when nuclear demise is on the table. People will protest enmass, only the sensible will try to mitigate the damage to our planet and culture. We see the devastation coming. It is our right/duty to imagine a better future. Then do something to act on that vision.
The iFUKUS
. . . has passed its zenith. That should be obvious to anyone that is educated, that knows American history, and that can remember life the way it was for most Americans during the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Hell, just listen to American popular music today, or watch mainstream American movies to see how lame, culturally bankrupt and intellectually in decline we are. (Full disclosure: My belief is that American pop music reached its "top" back in the 1950s, long before I was born. And that American movies were largely relevant and good during the "New Hollywood" era of the late 60s and early 70s. So, it isn't just a matter of my being an old fogy that thinks the things from my era were the best, and that everything thereafter sucks. I wasn't even born when the United States was producing/inventing great music in the forms of rock n' roll, jazz, pop (like Sinatra) country and western, and blues, and I was much too young to appreciate films like "Easy Rider," "Bonnie and Clyde," and "The Graduate" when they came out.)
Economically and politically, the seeds of that decline were planted as early as the 1950s, when the CIA started to topple governments in Iran and Guatemala, and started getting involved in Viet Nam. But those seeds did not start coming to full fruition until the late 70s and the Reagan/neoliberal era of the 1980s.
Yea, you got something there
as far as the earlier seeding of inequality, it was tightly tied to the red scares of the 50's. Empire could not allow socialism to prevent the capitalistic take over so they used the commie scare. Same --same, now it's called russia. Doesn't seem to matter if it's red, yellow, brown; the capitalist funded war machine tries to crush it. Afraid to lose control. They are out numbered.
Let me also add . . . .
Detroit, Gary, IN, and Camden, N.J. . . . three great American manufacturing cities, that once employed hundreds of thousands of people at good wages, that lie in various states of decay and ruin.
And let me add New Orleans to the mix (although, there are probably other important areas that I am leaving out.)
How many civilizations "on the rise" have once great, major urban centers, in such states of neglect and ruin?
Another sign of this empire being past its Zenith.
I call bullshit
Once again (I've pointed out before), whenever I read comments--especially from a co-called "progressives"--like these, which are easily demolished by facts and critical thinking, my automatic default suspicion is that I'm reading something posted by a paid troll or sock puppet.
In fact, it may be a matter of faith on my part, but I believe that huge amounts of money are invested in overrunning internet comment sections and discussion groups with such operatives (we know, for example, what "Correct the Record" was, and we also know that Israel devotes large amounts of resources to their "hasbara" operations online.) That is how important the powers-that-be believe it is to manipulate the public mind through deceptive PR techniques and lies.
As I've also stated before, I believe that dailykos has been infested with such operatives for YEARS (long before the 2016 election cycle), and that the reason Commandante Marko$$ didn't want anyone accusing anyone else of being a paid troll or sockpuppet on that site was that he knew, or at least suspected, as much, but he didn't want to call attention to the reality.
. . . . just like his ban on discussion of 9-11 conspiracy theories also had a hidden motive, which was to prop up the establishment by keeping certain issues off limits. After all, how many Democratic Party office holders have been willing to ask critical questions about 9-11, even though the official story does not hold up to any kind of informed scrutiny? Just think about that reality for a minute and let that sink in. But I digress . . . .
Face it: On internet comment sections you are dealing with "people" that you know little or nothing about. You don't know if they are even "real.' If they are "real," you don't know what their motivations are in their posting what they do, whether they are sincerely deluded, or they are dishonest to the core. The best you can do is deal with them by posting, fact-based counterarguments . . . or even by calling them out as being paid by somebody.
no doubt trolls exist
...and probably do post here. However, this community is small enough that after you hang out here a while you know most posters. Also JtC is pretty astute and has a good sense of detecting and getting rid of trolls. I think I'm familiar with all the posters in this thread....just curious who you see as a troll?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
I didn't say anything about this site being overrun with trolls
My hunch is that this site is "small" and "niche" enough that such people don't even bother with it.
We've had...
our share, on both sides of the aisle. A couple of years ago after the Great Edict of '16, this place was hopping and we had multiple instances.
My guess is that back in 2016,
while Medusa was still in the running for President, this site presented more of a threat to the Dem Party status quo and agendas than it does now. Thus, they were then more willing to expend the resources to disrupt it.
Now, (well deserved) Democratic Party bashing has expanded all over the internet, and has been likely eclipsed by things like Jimmy Dore's YouTube broadcasts.
So, you called bullshit, soylent green.
So, exactly who are you calling bullshit on?
I call your call. Lay 'em on the table and lets see.
I'm not trying to start a pie fight but I want to see the bullshit you see.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Apparently you failed to comprehend what
. . . I was calling "bullshit" on.
You truly strike me as being in the "reactive" mode . . . and for no good reason.
Go back and re-read the original post. Then re-read the point I was trying to make in my comment. Hopefully, you will then "get" the drift of what I was saying. So far, you have failed to do so.
Not reactive at all
It was just a question for clarification.
Once again (I've pointed out before), whenever I read comments--especially from a co-called "progressives"--like these, which are easily demolished by facts and critical thinking, my automatic default suspicion is that I'm reading something posted by a paid troll or sock puppet."
Whom here did you suspect as a paid troll or sock puppet?
Again, seeking clarification, not a pie fight.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
@earthling1 I believe
I believe Soylent is referencing the comment that I quoted at the start of my essay (which I said was not from this site), not someone on this site.
Going to Soylent's point though, I think the troll/paid troll thing gets, imo, really overblown.
I believe that the power of said trolls isn't the sheer numbers, but the belief that there are sheer numbers of them. If you have 100 people and 1 person is a paid troll/troll, the problem isn't that the troll exists; the problem is that everyone starts believing that the percentage of trolls is too high.
Except that there are programs
. . . . that exist, as revealed by Anonymous, that allow one person to create and operate as many as ten different fake identities online simultaneously. That was part of the HB Gary/Palentir revelations from a few years back.
paid trolls on Daily Kos
Or that he himself is such......
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Well, that of course is another possibility . . . .
. . . that I don't rule out either.
Well,
little Markos did "try out" for the CIA and then somehow magically switched gears to found dkos. We'll never know if he really left the agency or not. It would not be the first time that the agency was involved in social media.
As for us here, as one of the original members here, I echo this statement:
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy