Following up on StevenD's Skripal OP...

Submitted by arendt on Wed, 03/14/2018 - 6:23pm

Moon of Alabama has the latest, very thorough debunking of this steaming pile of nonsense.

I think StevenD has given the main story. I just want to add a few more details.

Despite the ludicrousness of the accusations and the complete absence of evidence, the corporate media in the Empire (i.e., UK, US, Israel, Canada,...) is catapulting the propaganda non-stop. In fact, only one corporate outlet, the Irish Times, is willing to point out the obvious fact that Russian oligarchs tend to kill each other and other Russian emigres quite frequently.

London has become the city of choice for those who have made vast fortunes following the fall of the Soviet Union and not all of them have been squeaky-clean model citizens. Boris Berezovsky, for example, who employed Litvinenko, had been a prime suspect in organising the murder of American journalist Paul Klebnikov. Forbes Magazine, Klebnikov’s employer, continues on its website to point the finger in Berezovsky’s direction. A former British diplomat has told me in private that giving Berezovsky asylum was considered a major mistake in UK diplomatic circles.

The anti-Putin Berezovsky died in mysterious circumstances not long after he had lost a court case against pro-Putin oligarch Roman Abramovich, owner of Chelsea FC. British police ruled that his death was suicide but there are those in Britain who believe, or want to believe, he was murdered.

The oligarchs have been welcomed in London financial circles because of the amount of their money. They have been welcomed too by May’s Conservative party, which, according to recent reports in the London Times and Daily Telegraph, has received donations of £820,000 from Russian sources. Chancellor Philip Hammond has refused to return the money because he did not want to tar the oligarchs “with Putin’s brush”.

Perhaps it is time to realise that if your country becomes a haven for dodgy people like Berezovsky then dodgy things are likely to happen.

Unlikely that Vladimir Putin behind Skripal poisoning

The only conclusion a sane person can have is that this is a massive "wag the dog" scenario to further paint Russia as evil, and perhaps to even try to get the UN to take some kind of action.

It is all insane, but I think that's because the mask has finally dropped. The leadership of the Empire is willing to be perceived as insane. It has decided to just go on a war footing, to drop any semblance of truth in favor of rank agitprop, and to have Pompeo and the "waterboard lady" from the CIA gin up whatever war they can.

Time to stock that fallout shelter.

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nerve agent nonsense

Propaganda

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Comments

Submitted by CB on Wed, 03/14/2018 - 7:23pm

What most people don't realize is that London and New York

are prime locations for laundering ill gotten gains from foreign nations. The majority of Russian oligarchs started moving to those cities when Putin cracked down in 2000. They had been pillaging Russia (with the help of the Americans) during the preceding decade. If Putin could get them back in Russia they would be prosecuted and go to jail.

Putin spent a decade going after them one-by-one and knocking them down. Some fled. Some went to jail, some had their assets taken away and some started to obey the law.

To survive and remain in Russia they were required to do four things:

pay the wages of employees
pay their taxes
no asset stripping
keep their noses out of politics

How many Americans would love to have a president who did those four things? Maybe he would also have a 70-80% popularity rating? Or maybe he would be assassinated.

Is it any wonder that Putin had become corporate America's public enemy #1 by 2004? By this time, Putin was replenishing citizen's pension plans which had been completely decimated by the wholesale theft of state resources. Older people were actually starving and freezing on the streets when their accustomed USSR pensions collapsed.

Russia's Crackdown on Oligarchs Expands
Corruption: An investigation into the energy giant headed by the architect of privatization comes on the heels of other high-profile actions by Putin.
July 15, 2000|ROBYN DIXON | TIMES STAFF WRITER

MOSCOW — Russian authorities said Friday that a third major company is being investigated for the handling of its privatization during the 1990s, as President Vladimir V. Putin announced his determination to prosecute tycoons who broke the law during the last decade.

Audit Chamber Chairman Sergei V. Stepashin said an investigation was underway into the privatization of energy giant UES, in part examining claims that the sale of shares to foreigners in 1992 was illegal. UES is headed by Anatoly B. Chubais, the architect of Russia's privatization program.

In an interview Friday with the daily Izvestia, Putin made no effort to dampen speculation that he was confronting the so-called oligarchs, the powerful business leaders who got fabulously wealthy through privatization deals.

"How could they not feel nervous?" he asked, saying too many businesspeople found themselves on the wrong side of the law after the state loosened its control on the economy following the fall of communism in 1991.
...
Putin complained in the Izvestia interview that tax avoidance and other violations of the law by business leaders became "massive and universally accepted" in the 1990s.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Wed, 03/14/2018 - 10:12pm

I would vote for Vlad if he would impose this on us

@CB

To survive and remain in Russia they were required to do four things:
pay the wages of employees
pay their taxes
no asset stripping
keep their noses out of politics

In an interview Friday with the daily Izvestia, Putin made no effort to dampen speculation that he was confronting the so-called oligarchs, the powerful business leaders who got fabulously wealthy through privatization deals.

Putin complained in the Izvestia interview that tax avoidance and other violations of the law by business leaders became "massive and universally accepted" in the 1990s.

Although Russia has been on hard times ever since the Swedes conquered them a millennium ago, Vlad is doing his best at raising the standard of living. The contracting GDP of Russia is probably more the function of Western sanctions (blackmail which he refuses to pay) than inherent weakness of the Russian Federation. Russia definitely gets more "bang for the buck" than we do because the state owns the MIC. This reduces graft and overcharging greatly, which is not to say that doesn't occur. For far less money, Russia produces the SU 37, superior to our F 35s and at much less cost.

We are now having our epoch of Imperial Contraction thanks to a long series of incompetents and frauds who have temporarily given a face to the Shadow Government. The Republicans still wail we need to be "exceptional" again and the Demonrats are obliging to do what they can to promote this.

I wonder how a "taste of war" inflicted upon our own country would please the palates of the perverted few who rule from closely guarded enclaves. Certainly the proles won't like it much if China or NK brings some of it to us. I doubt many of the conservatives thirsting for war on somebody else's terrain, would feel if they had to surrender the relatively cushy life styles many of them enjoy.

are prime locations for laundering ill gotten gains from foreign nations. The majority of Russian oligarchs started moving to those cities when Putin cracked down in 2000. They had been pillaging Russia (with the help of the Americans) during the preceding decade. If Putin could get them back in Russia they would be prosecuted and go to jail. Putin spent a decade going after them one-by-one and knocking them down. Some fled. Some went to jail, some had their assets taken away and some started to obey the law. To survive and remain in Russia they were required to do four things: pay the wages of employees pay their taxes no asset stripping keep their noses out of politics How many Americans would love to have a president who did those four things? Maybe he would also have a 70-80% popularity rating? Or maybe he would be assassinated. Is it any wonder that Putin had become corporate America's public enemy #1 by 2004? By this time, Putin was replenishing citizen's pension plans which had been completely decimated by the wholesale theft of state resources. Older people were actually starving and freezing on the streets when their accustomed USSR pensions collapsed. Russia's Crackdown on Oligarchs Expands Corruption: An investigation into the energy giant headed by the architect of privatization comes on the heels of other high-profile actions by Putin. July 15, 2000|ROBYN DIXON | TIMES STAFF WRITER MOSCOW — Russian authorities said Friday that a third major company is being investigated for the handling of its privatization during the 1990s, as President Vladimir V. Putin announced his determination to prosecute tycoons who broke the law during the last decade. Audit Chamber Chairman Sergei V. Stepashin said an investigation was underway into the privatization of energy giant UES, in part examining claims that the sale of shares to foreigners in 1992 was illegal. UES is headed by Anatoly B. Chubais, the architect of Russia's privatization program. In an interview Friday with the daily Izvestia, Putin made no effort to dampen speculation that he was confronting the so-called oligarchs, the powerful business leaders who got fabulously wealthy through privatization deals. "How could they not feel nervous?" he asked, saying too many businesspeople found themselves on the wrong side of the law after the state loosened its control on the economy following the fall of communism in 1991. ... Putin complained in the Izvestia interview that tax avoidance and other violations of the law by business leaders became "massive and universally accepted" in the 1990s.

Submitted by dkmich on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 8:22am

I would vote for him too if I could get those 4 things.

@Alligator Ed

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by Steven D on Wed, 03/14/2018 - 7:41pm

Thanks

Good addition and provides info I was not aware of.

—

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 03/14/2018 - 8:42pm

It is insane, but what is more insane

is the number of people who believe this nonsense. The first two people who surprised me was my aunt and uncle. When I said that I wasn't buying into this, you should have seen the look on their faces. My uncle faithfully watches Rachel and I think that's part of the problem, but still. They are smart enough to be able to see this for what it is.

The second surprise was the woman I spoke with today. She just about fell out of her chair when I said that I don't believe this. No matter what I said, I couldn't get her to open her mind to the possibility that she has been duped. When I asked her why Putin would do this she said that he was sending a message that he can do this to anyone he wants. Basically he did it to make sure that no one gets out of line. Ooh, big bad boogeyman. SMDH!

JFC on a hippogriff

—

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Submitted by The Wizard on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 11:06am

All of these false flag ops depend on the image of VVP as thug

@snoopydawg
It's easy to get into the minds of the MI6 ops who think up these things. "Poison an ex double agent and blame it on Putin. The poison of choice will be enough evidence, since the Western media has firmly established that he is a thug." That is, his motive is that basically he is a thug. Truth is that he is among that rare breed of world class statesman, something that we in the West have not had the privilege to experience for a very long time, it's no wonder that we can't recognize it.

It's truly a sight to see everyone in the West jump on the bandwagon with no proof. It says volumes about what kind of a civilization we have. It's especially grating when pronouncements from heads of organizations are treated like facts. If Trump backs up TM by saying that Russia did it, then that is treated as an event as significant as actually finding evidence.

We do need a second hand on the Doomsday Clock, I'm afraid.

—

Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 11:11am

More proof Putin is directly responsible

for the Skripal poisoning. An envelope has been found with a scratch 'n sniff card inside that is now believed to be the delivery method for the poison.

Putin foolishly put his return address on the envelope. It is blatantly obvious the message he is trying to convey to the world.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 11:30am

Skripal poisoning only makes sense if it is a false flag.

Russian to Judgment: Who Poisoned Sergei Skripal?

The all-purpose “Russia did it” explanation makes no sense

The latest example of alleged Russian perfidy – the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia – is yet another case of faith-based attribution. In accusing Russia of some heinous crime – in this instance, the murder of a former double agent working for MI6 – one needn’t present any real evidence: it’s only necessary to point the finger at the Kremlin. And of course we haven’t had any real evidence proffered by the British government: Prime Minister Theresa May simply declared that Russia is the culprit and gave a midnight deadline for the Kremlin to explain how “its nerve weapon” – as NBC reported it – was used to attacked Skripal on British soil. She has since announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats.

The absurdity of this was inadvertently underscored by the comments of Vil Mirzayanov, the Russian-born chemist who first revealed the existence of “Novichok,” the nerve agent developed by the Russians. Mirzayanov came to the United States in 1995: in 2007, he published a book, State Secrets, which tells his story as a chemist working in Russia’s secret chemical weapons facilities. Now 83, he gives the following explanation for the attack on Skripal:

“‘Only the Russians’ developed this class of nerve agents, said the chemist. ‘They kept it and are still keeping it in secrecy.’

“The only other possibility, he said, would be that someone used the formulas in his book to make such a weapon.”
...
The usual suspects are speculating that Skripal was targeted by the Russians because he had a hand in compiling the Trump dossier – and yet the former Russian intelligence agent hadn’t been in his home country since 2010, and has lived in Salisbury, Great Britain, since that time. Orbis has denied he had any role in creating the dossier. And even if he did play some role in the dossier’s compilation, what would be the point of killing him – especially in a way that would point to Russia? It makes no sense. But then again, war propaganda doesn’t have to make sense, it has only to inspire fear and loathing.
...

Submitted by Anja Geitz on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 1:06pm

This is why I am deeply concerned

@CB

If we are to believe that 9/11 was perpetrated by our government as a false flag for the purpose of unleashing unprecedented military powers rather than an event our government used to capitalize their position (I'm willing to entertain either scenario), then how far is the Corporatocracy and their military goons willing to go to advance their narrative so that they can move the next chess piece?

Russian to Judgment: Who Poisoned Sergei Skripal?

The all-purpose “Russia did it” explanation makes no sense

The latest example of alleged Russian perfidy – the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia – is yet another case of faith-based attribution. In accusing Russia of some heinous crime – in this instance, the murder of a former double agent working for MI6 – one needn’t present any real evidence: it’s only necessary to point the finger at the Kremlin. And of course we haven’t had any real evidence proffered by the British government: Prime Minister Theresa May simply declared that Russia is the culprit and gave a midnight deadline for the Kremlin to explain how “its nerve weapon” – as NBC reported it – was used to attacked Skripal on British soil. She has since announced the expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats.

The absurdity of this was inadvertently underscored by the comments of Vil Mirzayanov, the Russian-born chemist who first revealed the existence of “Novichok,” the nerve agent developed by the Russians. Mirzayanov came to the United States in 1995: in 2007, he published a book, State Secrets, which tells his story as a chemist working in Russia’s secret chemical weapons facilities. Now 83, he gives the following explanation for the attack on Skripal:

“‘Only the Russians’ developed this class of nerve agents, said the chemist. ‘They kept it and are still keeping it in secrecy.’

“The only other possibility, he said, would be that someone used the formulas in his book to make such a weapon.”
...
The usual suspects are speculating that Skripal was targeted by the Russians because he had a hand in compiling the Trump dossier – and yet the former Russian intelligence agent hadn’t been in his home country since 2010, and has lived in Salisbury, Great Britain, since that time. Orbis has denied he had any role in creating the dossier. And even if he did play some role in the dossier’s compilation, what would be the point of killing him – especially in a way that would point to Russia? It makes no sense. But then again, war propaganda doesn’t have to make sense, it has only to inspire fear and loathing.
...

—

There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier

Submitted by Linda Wood on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 1:46pm

I think they've made it clear

@Anja Geitz

that they'll do anything. Your point is really valid. This is the basic difference of opinion that I see between people who believe someone like Hillary Rodham Clinton respects human rights -- the rights of women to choose their careers, the rights of women to choose their times to bear children, the rights of gay people to marry, the rights of people of all ethnic and religious groups to equal protection under the law -- at the same time they make jokes about bombing and unleashing terrorist armies against the people of the third world. Somehow this is supposed to make sense, along the lines of Madeline Albright saying that 500,000 children starving in Iraq is worth it to make our point.

The truth is that these oligarchs have no respect for human life and that they use the Party platform of respect for civil rights as a cover for their crimes against humanity. The proof is in the pudding. Seeing is believing. We need to watch what they do, not what they say. And therefore we can put nothing past these people.

Submitted by CB on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 2:21pm

How far? I think they would like a world with

@Anja Geitz

a total population of about one billion where the multi-millionaires/billionaires could live a refined life, free of stress and strife, yet still have enough peons to service their needs. The rest of humanity is superfluous. This would solve the majority of crises the world currently lives with.

It's human nature; I've got mine so fuck off.

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 9:51pm

More like half a billion, per the Georgia Guidestones

@CB

There's a nice conspiracy theory for you - who put them up, what do they really mean, and do they outline a Master Plan (and if so, whose?)? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgia_Guidestones

—

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by MrWebster on Thu, 03/15/2018 - 2:10pm

Look for it to get worse. Propaganda and retaliatory actions.

Just saw some claim leaked to media that the Russians have been in the power grid, but kicked out of it. Musta learned how to better manage this propaganda from the Vermont claim. Also, probably power companies notified a head of time to get the story straight--unlike hacking of state election computers.

It looks like US, UK, France, and maybe Germany are looking to implement a total economic isolation of Russia. There was some speculation about kicking Russia off SWIFT in previous times. In addition May was looking how to cut off Russian gas supplies at least to the UK. I am wondering if Germans may back away from Nord Stream 2 (so they and all of EU can buy much more expensive gas from the US). Even talk of kicking Russia off UN Security Council.

Submitted by tle on Sat, 03/17/2018 - 6:47pm

Definitely eye-opening

I wasn't paying a lot of attention to this, because why should anyone be surprised if Russia is killing people? (Or the U.S., or any other government). But Moon of Alabama did a good writeup on this. I particularly appreciated a comment there that did what I SHOULD have been doing; asking sensible questions, like "If the Skripals were hit with a military grade toxin, why are they not dead?".