guests once again. We're out of time, and as usual we didn't accomplish a goddamned fucking thing, but we did fill 4 minutes of air time, so there is that. Thanks for watching point counterpoint where each week we duke it out for 4 or 5 minutes hoping the Librul bastid goes home with the bloodier nose. (and usually does). See you next time! Goodnight everybody... "

the choice thingy ... choose your response

I think a lot of importance should be put on where the line between civility and non-civility is put, where you exercise your civility or non civility, and who has the power to prevent perceived non-civility from happening and with what kind of methods.

It is uncivil for an armed police officer to shoot and kill an unarmed demonstrator, who has not engaged in major destructive, ie uncivil behavior, which for me starts with killing a person. (RAF radicals in Germany way back for example). Rock throwing is uncivil but not comparable to shooting, or killing or bombing. The police must be capable to prevent rock throwers, who destroy property, without shooting and killing the rock thrower.

The revolutionary civility tip-toes around the issue of who has shown more violent behavior in their uncivil behavior. Everyone who is heavily armed has the assured power to kill, shoot, bomb and oppress is therefore very uncivil by default as soon as they not only threaten to use their weapons, but start to use them. Everybody who is unarmed, has less powerful arms, is still civil, when they can't counter the uncivil violent behavior of police or military might, but still behave uncivil themselves in throwing back something that is be default less destructive and less violent than the power of the military or police.

Media by their mission to report on uncivil behavior by default will skew and manipulate through their focus on those images that are most 'inciting your emotions'. Talking heads are uncivil if they exaggerate, lie, use demagoguery, or other rhetorics for effect, in order to cross over and impress the audience. Being uncivil doesn't have to mean being violent with regards to bodily harm. They do harm in triggering counter-uncivil rhetoric. Since the digital age that rhetorical power of the word to manipulate has more power than ever before to cause mental-health related harm. The media has no way to "show" visually the mental-health related harm and therefore the population underestimates how prevalent those harms are.

Questioning of who, why, when, where, what and how always helps a little to be a little bit more civil in any responses, I believe. Being more civil in your dissent, because an armed officer threatens to use his might, is rather oppressive and quite an uncivil method to "manage dissent', imo.

This whole revolution stuff, I believe, has been always a method to question, incite, overstep the lines and use a little bit of tiny violence to cause bodily or property harm to those they oppose. There is no way to find civility in that, but then you have to ask what kind of uncivil oppression has caused the revolutionaries to overstep the line between civil dissent to violent attempts to defend themselves against their own uncivil and potential violent oppression.

I believe in negotiating til you have found a compromise everybody agrees with is the only civil and non-violent method. But then it's not called anymore 'revolutionary'. I dunno.
Can't stand these revolutionary talks...

they are way too lame /s.

I like the idea of experimenting with no shit posts for a period of time, just to see what would happen. For me, what happens is I have nothing to say, no comments.

Every morning I go looking for some good news, there isn't any. It is my local, regional outlets causing the adrenaline spikes, which causes me to seek relief talking about it here. We're all in the same boat, some have life jackets others not so much. "No matter where you go, there you are." I don't get off on posting criticisms, I am already off and need a place to say how crazy it all appears, anger of the disenfranchised.

Under the state's old medical marijuana laws, cooperatives were non-profit entities created solely to provide cannabis to members. State law eliminates the status of cooperatives under a sunset clause.

"That's the system." Politicians and the lobbyists who own them have made California a cesspool of insidious shit. I can't even go three minutes without getting spit on by some fucked up corporation stuffing bullshit up my ass.

I'll start being civil when politicians and corporations start being civil, stop lying to me.

Thanks jim p, good talk.

or just uncivil ?

U.S. President Donald Trump fired Secretary of State Rex Tillerson, Washington Post reported Tuesday. Trump will reportedly replace Tillerson with CIA Director Mike Pompeo.

I think Trump needs to go back to his old playground. He is running out of apprentices in the White House.

the idea came up of a truce among the 99% for the purpose of focusing on what ails all of us, that criminal class at the top ruling over us. It's possible in the vein that anything is possible. There are commonalities among the right and the left regarding the "establishment".
Something has to be done outside this two party political system which keeps the people divided. There's still time before this next election to get something going.

Any politician who makes that the main issue will galvanize the Country, even if that person is some old Senator from Vermont. That issue is what separates the wheat from the chaff as far as sycophantic politicians go.

that you are rarely interested in converting the target of your incivility. When Joe McCarthy was made an object of contempt for a considerable majority of the country no one expected "Tailgunner Joe" to respond "My God, you're right. I behaved horribly." But he was brought down.

When Madeleine Albright was asked about the 500,000 Iraqi children who died as a result of US sanctions that accomplished not a damned thing, she replied "we think the price is worth it."

It's hard even to describe contemptible behavior without revealing your contempt.

Just to add to this, from The Essential Caitlin:

https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/why-does-the-left-attack-itself-gener...

Caitlin Johnstone
Rogue journalist. Bogan socialist. Anarcho-psychonaut. Guerilla poet. Utopia prepper.
Oct 17, 2017
Why Does The Left Attack Itself? Generations Of Government Psyops.

...Anyone who’s spent any time in these circles knows that this is nothing new for the left (the actual left, not the Wall Street-friendly “OMG I love John McCain” rainbow-flag-on-a-Reaper-drone “left” that mainstream Americans are permitted to support). Why is that, though? Why does the left eat its own so aggressively and consistently when there’s every reason to look past small disagreements and collaborate toward shared goals? Why is it considered normal in leftist circles to try to destroy someone you used to support the second they express one opinion you find objectionable?

My theory is that, like so many other dynamics in western politics, the most overlooked and underappreciated factor in this phenomenon is propaganda and psyops. ...

... These things have an effect. To deny that they have an effect would be to deny that advertising, a half-trillion dollar industry, has an effect. I’m not saying that there are no legitimate grievances at all between the various factions on the American political left, but I am saying that this nonstop sectarian vitriol is exactly what we’d expect to see in a population that has been deliberately manipulated into self-destructive neurotic impotence by generations of government psyops.

And it’s not like America has gotten less Orwellian since J Edgar Hoover. The sprawling surveillance networks in intelligence agencies like the NSA and the CIA have enabled the same political establishment that benefited from COINTELPRO to get even deeper into our minds, and there’s no reason to think that in-person tactics employed in COINTELPRO wouldn’t be employed digitally online. Indeed, there’s already plenty of evidence that this is happening extensively.

Again, I’m not trying to dismiss anyone’s personal grievances here. It’s just that sometimes the lefty infighting reminds me of a harem of sex slaves imprisoned in a basement, attacking each other instead of plotting an escape from their captor. We’ve become like an autoimmune disease, attacking the healthy cells instead of the pathogens. These manipulative sociopaths have been pummelling our psyches and emotions for decades, and in my opinion we should turn and face them, our real enemy.

Nobody is ever going to agree with anyone on everything; nobody is ever going to be perfect by anyone's standards.

You choose your allies by the goals you share so all of you can get somewhere, acting together in those areas. Or you never get anywhere at all.