Yep. Jimmy Dore nails it

Submitted by EdMass on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 12:06pm

"This is all it takes to take down democracy?"

Enemies: Bernie. Jill.

"The end game is to dismantle the Progressive Left"

"I told your this would happen"

"I so don't want to be in your shitty club"

Via Face the Sphincter "So John Podesta, "How come these Russians knew to focus on WI and MI and your campaign did not?""

Oh my.

Tags:

Jimmy Dore

Trust ur Gubmint

Vote

Comments

Submitted by The Aspie Corner on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 12:28pm

Definitely.

And we have no recourse with which we can fight back because the entire system is rigged from top to bottom.

—

Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.

Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.

Submitted by jorogo on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 3:57pm

Youtube don't like Jimmy?

They tell me my browser won't recognize the video format. I can play all previous Jimmy Dore shows there. Is this a new tactic to suppress?

—

"If I sit silently, I have sinned." - Mossadegh

Submitted by SnappleBC on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 5:11pm

Played fine in google chrome

@jorogo I'm going to guess a privacy setting or extension you've got enabled.

—

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 6:16pm

Podesta has brass ones

Why haven't we heard anything from Mueller and his fan club about his investigation into the Podesta's lobbying business? Didn't John have to step down from his position at the firm? We're hearing lots of stories about the people who are connected with Trump, but nothing about them.

Yep. If Bernie had won he would be accused of the things Trump has, unless Bernie would continue the plan for war with Russia.

Let's not forget the other reasons for the Russian propaganda. Internet censorship, DHS taking control of the elections and most importantly, the upcoming war with Russia. The threat of terrorism has gotten old so they need to come up with a new enemy.

—

Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

Submitted by lizzyh7 on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 7:00pm

Righteous rant out of Jimmy.

He's right, this is really fucking scary to watch. And using Russia against the left, while it's also used against Trump, is really another bit of evil genius in my mind. That basically says that both the "hard right" and "hard left," as the PTB would say, are BOTH only captives to Russia and it's machinations. How DARE any citizen think they can vote for outliers like Rump, Bernie or Jill. There are points that intersect on both those supposed extremes, on the economics and corruption in particular. Dangerous thoughts out of the plebes. It should have been Bush v Clinton and all would be fine with American "democracy." And the left facilitates outright censorship which will hurt both sides of the outlier fence, but the left will ultimately get the long term blame, as they should right now. And that only hurts the plebes, it does not touch our owners and it keeps the division ultimately blaming the left.

—

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 11:01pm

I have a feeling that Americans are more likely to vote

@lizzyh7

....for an Outsider than ever before in Federal elections. Of course, in 2018, they'll be voting for the incumbent or the newest congressional instant millionaire. Some house seats have candidates from the Left, who will be running with little support from the DNC. But I don't know what real Democrats will do if there is no one to vote for, this time — a candidate that is dedicated to universal health care and forgiveness of student loans and an immediate end to the wars and reinstatement of FDR era regulations.

2018 is demographically destined to improve the lot of the Democrats, so how bad could it be?

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 4:15am

I think I understand your comment

@Pluto's Republic Is it snark? Are "real Democrats" Hillbots, Bernicrats or true progressives? In my mind a "real Democrat" mindset died with Bubba. All the rest of prior Democrats are either celebrating the graft or thrashing about in the water, hoping to somehow hoping to catch a Progressive wave.

Submitted by Amanda Matthews on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 3:09pm

It didn’t just ‘die’ with Bubba

@Alligator Ed

It wss stabbec in the back.

—

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Submitted by GreyWolf on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 7:50pm

"Mueller Indictments Are A F**king Joke & It's Dangerous"

Lee Camp feels basically the same as Jimmy Dore ...

[video:https://youtu.be/-xu2ovy_-h4]

Redacted Tonight is a comedy show written and performed by Americans, in America covering American news.
For more on this topic go here - https://popularresistance.org/mueller...
For more about the fake "rallies" the indictment sites, go here - https://twitter.com/ClimateAudit/stat...

Submitted by snoopydawg on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 9:47pm

Meteor Blades posted this in his diary last night

@GreyWolf

He posted an article stating that this was just a marketing ploy and nobody said anything about it. I wonder if the truth will ever see the light of day there again.

—

Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

Submitted by peachcreek on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 1:20am

MB...

@snoopydawg When I left, for me, he was the only one with any integrity left over there (of the FP'ers).
I haven't been back. I would guess that his post was ignored because anyone that agreed with it was too afraid to say anything. Yeah, great site for discourse over there.

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 4:37am

Everything the evil Russkies were charged with

@GreyWolf are things that Christopher Steele, his Russian Sources are actually guilty of. And their co-conspirators including HRC, Comey, Strzok, DNC, etc were guilty of not registering as foreign agents for perpetrating this "foreign"-based dossier against our country--or did I somehow miss the annexation of the UK to the US. Such an amalgam would of course bring us a new hybrid nation: U-SUK.

Submitted by Big Al on Tue, 02/20/2018 - 9:59pm

I don't think they're worried about the progressive left.

Submitted by mimi on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 12:40am

When it comes to a judgement about the Mueller indictments

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details?
Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows.

It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho.

MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots.

One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think

...

MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign.

We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States.

That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well.

...

MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed.

I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens.

And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by mimi on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 12:43am

And one day I would love to see Marcy Wheeler

@mimi
debating Lee Camp. Wouldn't that be great?

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details? Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows. It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho. MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots. One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think ... MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign. We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States. That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well. ... MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed. I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens. And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Alligator Ed on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 4:44am

Ms Wheeler speaks the truth--not one she would endorse

@mimi

if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge.

Does Uranium One ring a bell for Mz Wheeler? Or, more recently, the Piss Portfolio, glamorized as the Steele dossier?

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details? Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows. It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho. MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots. One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think ... MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign. We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States. That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well. ... MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed. I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens. And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

Submitted by GreyWolf on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 8:42am

Clinton Foundation synonymous with Emoluments Clause

@Alligator Ed Yeah, everybody wants to act all smart, and wind up their personal hit counter, but this has been a way of business/politics for a long time ... an "open secret."

"... if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, ... or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge."

I get that Mueller is going after the foreign influence angle [as the only actual crime], but 8 folks (and a dog,) or $25 - $50 vs. millions and billions ...

Fungible - money is fungible. If I only had $500 and have to pay rent of $500, and then my dad gives me $500 to pay rent only, I can then actually go and spend my $500 on drugs, so my dad, in reality, supported my drug use, even though I literally spent the $500 he gave me on rent, just as I had told him I would do.

For every dollar that Saudia Arabia, or any other country, gave the Clintons, that free'd up a dollar for them to spend on their campaign, so, in reality, any money given to any politician, for any reason, from any foreign government, is a foreign influence. (And we all live with the lie, the delusion, that the specific dollar contributed goes to one certain purpose, say rent, and that did not free up another dollar to be used for some other, illegal, purpose, say drugs ...)

Submitted by Mark from Queens on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 9:59am

The "Slush Fund," as Chelsea candidly called the operation.

@GreyWolf
Then there's Doug Band, and the debacle in Haiti, and the pocketing for themselves and dispersing to their political and business cronies billions of dollars donated to rebuild the hurricane and poverty-ravaged country, which continues to be one of the most exploited by any and all Western capitalists.

As an aside, to think, of the noble legacy the country of Haiti has, that most around the globe remain ignorant about. Which is that, around the same time as the Americans and French were throwing off the yoke of their economic oppressors, the Haitians were literally rising up out of the shackles of human bondage slavery to overthrow their mostly French masters. Their success struck such a deep reservoir of fear around the white Western world, that the U.S. and other countries involved directly or peripherally in the slave trade, eventually helped to restore the country and its vast resources once again into the hands of foreign pillagers.

Found this piece in Medium (after dredging through lots of RW media sources) that seems to nail it pretty good.

Vast “right wing conspiracists” focus on Clintons using this organization as a personal “slush fund.” No, it’s a “charity” as well operated as the cities of Chicago and Detroit. It has “original” ideas like Bill Clinton’s international “Chamber of Commerce” for pals, sycophants and paying guests, the Clinton Global Initiative masquerading as “charity.”

Its scammy non-programs have done so much damage, from trying to hook school districts and others on buying ultra-expensive emergency NARCAN packs while saying it “combats opioid addiction” to taking as much as $10 billion in charitable funding for Haiti and delivering less than 1 cent on the dollar to Haitians (and directing hundreds of millions to cronies — few are even Americans). Then there’s forcing Africa’s poorest nations to buy substandard HIV drugs at locked-in prices and forcing people to plant expensive GMO crop seeds or engage in pathetic “carbon sequestration” ripoff schemes. And setting up slave 25-cent an hour factories in Africa undercutting even Haiti’s poorest wages.

Like all recent WaPo articles about these matters, the article has been edited and amended while I’ve been writing this (twice in two hours). It added a comment insulting to any reader’s intelligence about board and executive inurement. I covered inurement in my article about Bill Clinton accepting a speech fee from the Swiss fragrance company Firmenich, then “donating” the exact same fee back to the company’s “foundation” (some might call this “money laundering” for a foreign company seeking to do business in Haiti — the same process occurred with the “Haiti Coffee Academy,” a private business venture of reality TV star coffee mogul Todd Carmichael).

The Wikileaks email covering Chelsea Clinton’s “relationship” to the Foundation wasn’t “nasty gossip” or an infantile “spat” as the Washington Post alleged. It was Doug Band’s answer to questions raised in the course of a very friendly decade-end organizational review of the Clinton Foundation conducted by law firm Simpson-Thacher. It was part of correspondence with Cheryl Mills, who was legally trying to figure out how best to respond to the review. Mills was working as Hillary Clinton’s chief of staff and “Counselor” at the State Department, as well as for the Clinton Foundation and for Doug Band/Teneo at this same time — in and of itself, poor practice.

Mills and John Podesta, who’d been called in to assist the Foundation after Bill Clinton’s close friend Bruce Lindsay had suffered a stroke, were dealing with a recommendation the review had made. Notably: “Don’t co-mingle funds and management regarding the President.” Money, time and staff were all mixed together. So, the Foundation might not have paid straight-up for Chelsea’s wedding but the “new infrastructure options” written by Cheryl Mills make it clear that all of the below activities, staff and funds were totally mixed together and needed to be separated. [aka that “arcane” word ‘inurement’].

There's plenty more in it too.

It's amazing to me that self-professed liberals are in hysterics about Trump's relationships to enriching himself. I despise that fucker more than anybody. But these folks are willfully ignorant at looking at the other opponent the Greatest Democracy In the World coughed up, who is just as corrupt.

Furthermore, without getting into the massive evidence of cheating, coverup, collusion and obfuscation conducted by the Clintons and their paid minions in the DNC (who also masqueraded as media pundits), where is the objection by these Liberals In Hysterics about the free publicity that MSM showered on Drumpf while ignoring any proper vetting of him? Or the horrible Electoral College system used in the GE, or the possibly millions of disenfranchised and purged voters in the Dem Primary?

—

"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 11:28am

If I don't believe that Russia twaddled in the election

@mimi

then why would I believe a trusted journalist who is telling me something that I have already dismissed?

Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste.

I have stated my reasons for not jumping on the propaganda bandwagon many times as other have also. Just before the election Obama said that the voting system was safe from outside interference and that everyone should relax. And since every one of the indictments that Mueller has thrown out had nothing to do with proving that Putin helped put Trump in office, then I am going to consider this just another ploy to get people on board with another gawddamned war. I refuse to give my permission for this country to kill more people for no other reason than they want control of that country's resources. And to install a friendly puppet that they can control.

That's what is great about this site. We are all free to think and say what we want.

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details? Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows. It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho. MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots. One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think ... MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign. We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States. That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well. ... MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed. I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens. And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

—

Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 5:05pm

I've contemplated poor Marcy Wheeler and her predicament

@mimi

....since this latest phase of Empire fail began. (With Hillary's loss.) Her entire milieu begs her to assure them that the Russians are the meanies that have ruined everything! And bless her heart, she does. But in a girl like Marcy there lives another voice, a second mind that argues for the other side and trips you up, if it can. It's an occupational hazard that comes with the intellectual honesty required to do worthy analysis.

The words of hers that you quote are a miasma of smoke and bikering, a simmering stew in her head that doesn't smell so good

With the trolling...Russia did spend a lot of money (was it Russia for sure?) ... but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to ... the Republicans ... Hillary Clinton ... It could have made the difference ... (how?) ... it is a drop in the bucket....

She's completely out of her depth here, and she knows it. Then, classically, she falls back on the one line that is used all day every day by people who see other people losing their grip on The Lie that MUST be Believed. They all intone these words, or words to this effect:

We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo....

Yes we do, Marcy.

We know exactly what Muller is going to show.

Nothing. He's got nothing. Because there was no Russian hack of the DNC. There was never a collusion between Donald Trump and Putin. They made all that up right under your nose. Mueller has devoured all the old dead skin he can off of the situation, and made the most of its obvious irrelevance. It's over. He has grabbed the last of the dry and wrinkled low hanging fruit.

Marcy must know this somewhere deep inside, because it trips her into complete incoherence:

If in fact it happened... I always... the Shadow Brokers... these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this... it's the same operation... a great deal of damage to the United States. The trolling... we said this.... the United States engages in this... it's fair game... fair game... hacking political candidates... the United States does that.

She's lost, mimi. She's never coming back. How can she? It doesn't matter that she pandered the truth for the sake of her social life, such as it is. She owed her audience nothing. And she can bamboozle her way out this peccadillo if she want's to. Her audience is obviously very pliable. But she committed a sin that people like us must never do. She betrayed herself.

So, she blunders on, trying to invent a Mueller that doesn't exist:

I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest.

Let's grasp at that last straw, shall we? You don't need to be an investigative journalist to see that. It's been playing out in plain sight since day one. Yeah. Let's go after what we already know.

What Mueller seems to be doing... is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else... even your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—... I think that’s where he’s headed.

Winning..! Because that took only 18 months and 8 million dollars to figure out. And the family did it without Russia's help. Imagine that.

I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens.

Don't put all your eggs into that basket, mimi.

Be glad you are not living in this country.

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details? Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows. It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho. MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots. One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think ... MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign. We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States. That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well. ... MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed. I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens. And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

Submitted by snoopydawg on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 6:21pm

Well stated, Pluto

@Pluto's Republic

Marcy says that Hillary's trolls admitted that they were working for her. No they didn't. The Correct the Record bots went into many websites and when they read something critical of her, they told people that they were wrong. No mention at all that they were being paid by Hillary's campaign to do that.

And what does Trump and his clan getting richer have to do with the original claim that Trump colluded with Russia to win the election? Nada! But that's what the boys and girls on ToP are now focusing on. Did Manafort launder money for people in Ukraine or Turkey or any other countries that he was working with? Possibly, but that has nothing to do with the original claim now does it?

The words of hers that you quote are a miasma of smoke and bikering, a simmering stew in her head that doesn't smell so good Yep.

How so many journalists have decided to throw away their integrity is astonishing. Especially Amy Goodman. Sad to see that.

#7

....since this latest phase of Empire fail began. (With Hillary's loss.) Her entire milieu begs her to assure them that the Russians are the meanies that have ruined everything! And bless her heart, she does. But in a girl like Marcy there lives another voice, a second mind that argues for the other side and trips you up, if it can. It's an occupational hazard that comes with the intellectual honesty required to do worthy analysis.

The words of hers that you quote are a miasma of smoke and bikering, a simmering stew in her head that doesn't smell so good

With the trolling...Russia did spend a lot of money (was it Russia for sure?) ... but it’s a drop in the bucket compared to ... the Republicans ... Hillary Clinton ... It could have made the difference ... (how?) ... it is a drop in the bucket....

She's completely out of her depth here, and she knows it. Then, classically, she falls back on the one line that is used all day every day by people who see other people losing their grip on The Lie that MUST be Believed. They all intone these words, or words to this effect:

We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo....

Yes we do, Marcy.

We know exactly what Muller is going to show.

Nothing. He's got nothing. Because there was no Russian hack of the DNC. There was never a collusion between Donald Trump and Putin. They made all that up right under your nose. Mueller has devoured all the old dead skin he can off of the situation, and made the most of its obvious irrelevance. It's over. He has grabbed the last of the dry and wrinkled low hanging fruit.

Marcy must know this somewhere deep inside, because it trips her into complete incoherence:

If in fact it happened... I always... the Shadow Brokers... these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this... it's the same operation... a great deal of damage to the United States. The trolling... we said this.... the United States engages in this... it's fair game... fair game... hacking political candidates... the United States does that.

She's lost, mimi. She's never coming back. How can she? It doesn't matter that she pandered the truth for the sake of her social life, such as it is. She owed her audience nothing. And she can bamboozle her way out this peccadillo if she want's to. Her audience is obviously very pliable. But she committed a sin that people like us must never do. She betrayed herself.

So, she blunders on, trying to invent a Mueller that doesn't exist:

I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest.

Let's grasp at that last straw, shall we? You don't need to be an investigative journalist to see that. It's been playing out in plain sight since day one. Yeah. Let's go after what we already know.

What Mueller seems to be doing... is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else... even your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge.

And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—... I think that’s where he’s headed.

Winning..! Because that took only 18 months and 8 million dollars to figure out. And the family did it without Russia's help. Imagine that.

I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens.

Don't put all your eggs into that basket, mimi.

Be glad you are not living in this country.

—

Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/21/2018 - 10:03pm

@mimi

@mimi

Lol, they'd be too afraid of also being inhibited in draining and poisoning America and Americans to further enrich and empower self-interests who have no business in politics. And that goes all the way from public officials of any kind taking bribes of any kind to serve, for example, the Likud at the cost of the American - or any - public, to public officials of any kind taking bribes to serve corporate self-interests/multi-millionaires/billionaires at the cost of the American - or any - public. (Which public interest obviously also covers the environment and treatment of animals, even if some don't realize it.)

This being a terrifying prospect for the pathetically venal...

very little is mentioned here what Marcy Wheeler has said about it. Why? Because she is paying attention to ALL details? Mueller Probe Heats Up: 13 Russians Indicted, Ex-Trump Aide to Plead Guilty, Focus on Kushner Grows. It comes with a transcript. And it should be studied, imho. MARCY WHEELER: Well, I mean, Amy, you make a good point, that the indictment calls this information “warfare.” It says that the troll farm considered themselves to be engaged in information warfare. But sure, we do that, absolutely. And so, one of the questions is, you know: Where are the lines going to be drawn? What are the norms? But, basically, these are people in St. Petersburg who were fluent English speakers, who were paid to engage in certain themes, use fake Twitter accounts, basically, to engage in certain themes and kind of just press the limits of certain partisan divides that already exist here, and not just partisan divides. They were also playing on religion and race, guns. So, they were basically paid to rile up Americans even further than our politics already do. Although I’ll also say that all sides engaged in similar kind of behavior in 2016. I mean, campaigns do this, as well. Campaigns even had bots. The difference here, according to the indictment, is that these bots were hiding the fact that it was a Russian effort, whereas, you know, Hillary or Trump bots were claiming correctly to be Hillary or Trump bots. One of the most interesting things about the indictment is it describes how much, how well these trolls were able to get actual people here in the United States to go out and, say, pay an actress to pretend to be Hillary Clinton, and pay somebody to build a cage, so that they could, you know, drag around a fake Hillary Clinton in a fake cage to play on the theme of Hillary going to prison. So, that’s the sort of alarming thing, is that from St. Petersburg, they were able to get actual campaign events put together by pretending to be Americans. And I think, again, none of this—none of the American side of this was charged. And the people described in the indictment probably—you know, they were just engaging in good-faith politics. Whether or not I agree with their politics, they were just doing what we’re supposed to do in the United States, which is engage in politics. But we do know, as I said, that the Guccifer 2.0 figure leaked a bunch of Democratic targeting data on the Florida races, and so that state is one to watch, and those events are ones to watch, I think ... MARCY WHEELER: Well, so, with the trolling, let’s be really clear that while Russia did spend a lot of money to do this, it’s a drop in the bucket compared to what either side, the Republicans or Hillary Clinton, spent to do the same kind of activity. So, it could have made the difference in Michigan—I’m in Michigan. It could have made the difference here, in Wisconsin. But it is not—it is a drop in the bucket compared to the kinds of activities that go on in a political campaign. We don’t know what else Mueller is going to show. We don’t know what kinds of quid pro quo, if in fact that happened. I always raise the fact that the Shadow Brokers, these leaked NSA files that were closely associated with all this, if that’s shown to be part of this same operation, that’s a great deal of damage to the United States. That said, the trolling—you and I already said this. This is stuff the United States engages in all the time. It’s considered fair game for intelligence agencies. Even stealing hacking tools, fair game for intelligence agencies. Hacking political candidates, the United States does that, as well. ... MARCY WHEELER: Exactly. I mean, if Trump and his son and his son-in-law are pretending to be doing the business of the United States but are instead just trying to enrich themselves, again, I don’t think it’s a—you know, we’ve talked about the Emoluments Clause and how you go after the Trump campaign—the Trump officials for their egregious conflicts of interest. And, frankly, it extends into his Cabinet. But what Mueller seems to be doing, with some very good appellate lawyers, by the way, is to be laying out this framework that if you are pretending to be doing something in the interest of the United States but are actually doing something else, serving somebody else’s bidding, whether it’s Russia, pro-Russian Ukrainian political party, or whether it’s your own family business, then they’re going to go after you for a conspiracy charge. And I wouldn’t be surprised if these conspiracy charges all kind of link up at the end, in this kind of grand moment of—I think that’s where he’s headed. I am waiting for that grand moment. I hope it happens. And then something wonders me about comments here: Journalists folks have trusted for years are now easily dismissed as having bought into the Russiagate memes. Too easily for my taste. But I have just guts feelings and nothing real for backing my suspicions up.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.