(Karma does gun control?): BLOOMBERG: Remingtons Bankruptcy May Be the Tip of the Iceberg

BLOOMBERG: Remingtons Bankruptcy May Be the Tip of the Iceberg

BLOOMBERG;

Remington’s Bankruptcy May Be the Tip of the Iceberg

Firearms companies face declining sales, falling stock prices and tremendous debt. Gunmaker American Outdoor Brands Corp., formerly known as Smith & Wesson, has seen its stock plummet by almost half from 2017. On Monday, Remington Outdoor Co., an iconic, 200-year-old American firearms manufacturer, announced it’s planning to file for bankruptcy.

With Republicans in control of Washington, there’s little chance of firearm regulation—even in the face of Wednesday’s massacre in Florida. When Barack Obama was president or Democrats controlled Congress, gun sales would generally rise after a mass shooting for fear of more restrictive laws. The gun lobby pushed these worries despite a lack of significant legislative effort by the Obama administration. Now that Donald Trump is in the Oval Office, fear of new gun laws has receded, industry executives have said. And so have sales, hurting both retailers and manufacturers such as Remington.

In December, James Debney, chief executive officer of American Outdoor, said “fear-based” buying of firearms had stopped. According to data collected by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System, a barometer for firearms sales, January 2018 was the slowest in gun purchases since 2012. Even on Thursday, after gunmaker stocks rose in premarket trading, shares headed back down by afternoon. (The assault rifle used in the Parkland high school attack was a Smith & Wesson AR-15, police said.)

*

“When there are elections that go a certain way, there tends to be a slowdown in sales to the firearms sector for the first six or nine months or so, and then there’s a more of a normalization thereafter,” Eliasek said in an August conference call when he was asked about the writedown, which at that time was 59 percent of face value.”

https://apple.news/AcTu3YmWxQQigFm9OAvn-pA

NOTE: I firmly believe Americans have a right to own guns, but absolutely NOT semi-automatic or automatic weapons OR any sttachment like bumpstocks that will transform a gun into one.

I think anyone buying a gun must be able to pass a background check, even if you’re selling it to your own mother.. Anyone who doesn’t do a background check should face prosecution. A national database needs to be established to ensure this is possible. The background check would have to be done prior to taking possession.

I also think ALL guns, no matter where or who they are purchased from, to be registered before taking physical possession. This would be done after the background check is complete and the buyer goes to take possession. Anyone caught with an unregistered gun goes to jail. I think that if a gun owner’s weapon is stolen or ‘otherwise’ turns uo missing, he/she would HAVE to report it to law enforcement or again face prosecution. (Some might not if they think a relative swiped it.)

We already have gun laws on the books. They need to be enforced. Using a firearm in the commission of a crime already calls for serious penalties. That’s why that item is not on my list.

I am not a ‘gun humper’ (hate that phrase) by any means. But I sure as hell don’t go along with the repeal the 2nd Amendment crowd either.

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the time for 2nd amendment lefties to stock up on supplies! Ain't that this capitalist way? Pennies on the buck for your shit?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews @Amanda Matthews snahhk weh'nt cleah!
Pick the vultures clean for a change is all. If ya happen to lean that way.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

Edit; added to, make much not sense previous

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Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

CB's picture

@Amanda Matthews
ten cents on the dollar.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@CB

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

zoebear's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Posters should be more considerate to the reader and not make us work so hard with their typo riddled comments.

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Soldier: What? Ridden on a horse?
King Arthur: Yes!
Soldier: You're using coconuts!
King Arthur: What?
Soldier: You've got two empty halves of a coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear

was gibberish.

I make typos all the time. I post on a phone.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

...to revise their constitution as they were supposed to every generation. They left it up to politically appointed judges to do whatever their used brains came up with.

I am not a ‘gun humper’ (hate that phrase) by any means. But I sure as hell don’t go along with the repeal the 2nd Amendment crowd either.

So why not follow the Second Amendment as it was written, in the context of the time it was written?

Only the types of guns available when it was written should be available to Americans as a right.

Modern guns should succumb to modern rules written in modern times based on modern principles. That's an example of sanity.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Pluto's Republic

...are one of the few things that make the rest of the world feel happier and more secure about the US unleashed upon the world.

That's not a bad thing. It gives them hope. Think how much scarier the US would be if their domestic population was not wantonly killing one another and creating a failed state.

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mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic
Without that tag your comment makes me completely unhappy.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@mimi

.... I might have used a snark tag.

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mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic @Pluto's Republic
I don't have to understand it.

On the other hand, US domestic gun laws
@Pluto's Republic

...are one of the few things that make the rest of the world feel happier and more secure about the US unleashed upon the world.

Do you have a proof that the whole world feels happier and more secure because the US has unleashed their domestic gun rights laws? Nobody in the world ever told me they are happy about that.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@Pluto's Republic

the time of the founders.

You agree, of course.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Amanda Matthews

You agree, of course.

I do agree. Force the issue.
Let them have it or change it or reject it.

Picking up the slack for their negligence and ignorance is what will finally end us as a nation. So far, it has enslaved the people and made them helpless.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Oh please. We’re not ‘helpless’. We just need common sense gun laws. And they need to be enforced.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Pluto's Republic
Then you would have morally challenged judges (like Alito) trying to say that since they didn't know how to perform abortions it was illegal then, so it should be illegal today. (hint: not only was abortion legal in 1776 it was common)And there were no laws against dumping PCBs, so every time someone comes up with a new technology we have to have a constitutional convention. (Imagine calling a constitutional convention to repeal the the 37,985th Ammendment, banning the PCV valve.)

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A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

Amanda Matthews's picture

@doh1304

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

@doh1304

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mimi's picture

But I sure as hell don’t go along with the repeal the 2nd Amendment crowd either.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@mimi

question is st the bottom of the thread.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews
you inadvertently removed the parent link. When it's removed from the text in a reply it defaults as a comment to the essay rather than a rely to a comment.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@JtC

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
Sorry I don't understand what you are saying. It's ok. I don't care anymore, if I understand it or not. No worries.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@mimi

shouldn’t be too hard to find. It starts out

“BecausevI KNOW responsible law abiding gun owners..”

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
that last one yet when I responded here. Sorry, I meanwhile responded to that one too.

I always get confused what is considered top of a thread and what is bottom of the thread. My bad.

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mimi's picture

outright dangerous and no other democracy in the world has such a law. It's the exact law that prevents the US from being a democracy and behaves like an empire over other nations. It's bullshit. And I guess everybody knows it but is too chicken to admit it.

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@mimi
was written, since it's really hard to do a mass shooting with a musket that takes forever to reload after each shot.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

mimi's picture

@Timmethy2.0
would I care, if there was a mass shooting or not. I have this stupid idea in my in my mind that folks just shouldn't be enabled to nilly willy shoot someone, which they are if they all can have their guns in the nightstands. I remember that British police officers were unarmed in the past and apparently it hasn't hurt anybody then that they didn't have them available.

But YMMV. Happy Shooting Day. Have you hugged killed someone today?

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@mimi
with a musket walking down the hall than to know that the guy has an automatic weapon(s). But I'm wrong to imply that there weren't a lot of shootings of innocent people back then. I believe bounties were paid for the heads of indigenous people. I think the 2nd amendment was as much motivated by the desire to keep control over Indians and slaves as it was to defend against the British who had their Redcoats up in Canada.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

@Timmethy2.0 And that is why it was set up for state level militias, to ensure states rights to enforce slavery. It was an actual compromise written that way specifically to make sure no Federal militia came into slave states and tried to enforce Federal law over state law. I read that in one of those articles on the history of the 2nd, maybe Consortium News?

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@mimi

Gun ownership was a right in as many as 30 constitutions when the US became a terrorist state around the time of World War II.

Many of those gun-rights nations had their societies partially destroyed. Some became failed states. Most rewrote their constitutions.

By the time the US invaded Afghanistan in 2001 and started murdering the Afghan people, I believe there were only four gun-rights countries left in the world.

As of last year, 16 years later, there is only one left, the United States. The other three were declared failed states.

Very soon, the United States will join them.

That's the law of nature.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@Pluto's Republic @Pluto's Republic

for its citizens to own guns. The US, Mexico, and. Guatamals. Apparently you see Mexico as a failed state. There are ovet 200 countried that allow gun ownership, many with strong restrictions.

Estimated number of guns per capita by country

3C0EFA7B-4AB2-4421-B044-071B89F827AC.jpeg

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_guns_per_capita_by_c...

Overview of gun laws by nation
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_of_gun_laws_by_nation

15 nations with the highest gun ownership

Listed here are the fifteen countries with the highest rates of civilian gun ownership, based on a comprehensive ranking of countries provided by the Washington Post.

https://www.deseretnews.com/top/2519/0/15-nations-with-the-highest-gun-o...

The World’s Best Countries For Owning Guns (And Living as an Expat)
https://www.liveandinvestoverseas.com/news/10-countries-easiest-gun-laws...
P

The US will not outlaw gun ownership. But I’m sure that eventually there will be more restrictions for gun ownership. That is inevitable and necessary.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Amanda Matthews

...Not to guarantee all citizens the right to possess guns. Citizens in Mexico cannot go to a store and buy handguns. There are no gun stores in Mexico. Guns in Mexico are very tightly restricted. Guatemala's constitution also restricts gun ownership.

The focus here is on hand guns and military weapons. Hunting guns are widely available in nearly all nations.

According to Small Arms Survey in Geneva — the global tracker of all small arms trade and all handguns produced in the world — "national approaches to civilian firearm regulation turn on the question of whether civilian ownership is seen as a basic right or a privilege."

These are constitutional issues. By 2011, only two nations had constitutions that declared that the ownership of firearms are a citizen's basic right and not a privilege — the USA and Yemen. Figures published in the Small Arms Survey in 2007 show that the USA and Yemen also have the highest rates of firearms per civilian, with an estimated 90 guns per 100 people in the US, and 55 in Yemen.

Yemen is now a failed state.

One to go.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@Pluto's Republic

will not give up their guns. And people who follow the laws do need their right to gun ownership protected. From people like you. What (according to you) would be the determining factor as to who should be allowed to own a gun? And how would that be decided? And by whom? Or would gun ownership be prohibited? And how would that be possible?

Obviously we no longer have a citizen’s militia. That part is obsolete. And the ‘guarantee’ as you call it to gun ownership by no stretch of the imagination covers people who commit criminal acts. Or the mentally ill. Or juveniles. Criminal actions, mental illnes, and being a juvenile are covered under the legal system to disallow gun ownership to those people. It’s like there are limits to the right to free speech. There are common sense limits to all our rights. And the right to bear arms is already restricted but the legal loopholes need tk be closed.

I pointred out in the ORIGINAL POST in this thread all the ways gun laws need tightened. That is how this iseue needs to be solved. That and making damn sure the laws pertaining to guns are enforced.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Like most of the world, I would love to see all Americans have 1,000 times as many weapons as they currently have. Big ass weapons. It's a perfect form of de-population to get rid of nuts living in complete isolation from global reality.

These are the nuts who are paying for US atrocities taking place throughout the world. Daily murder and mayhem. They gotta go and what better way to get the job done than to let them kill themselves as they currently are?

We should tell one-half that the other half are super secret Russian moles pretending to be Americans. Speed things up. They'll believe anything, no matter how preposterous it sounds.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@Pluto's Republic

in this entire thread. But you just go on with you nonsense. It’s starting to be entertaining.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@mimi

Five things to know about guns in Germany

Figures compiled for Germany’s new National Weapons Registry reveal that there are 5.4 million legally owned guns in the country, making it the world's fourth most-armed nation per capita.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thelocal.de/20160616/five-things-to-kno...

So what makes it ok for Germans to own guns but not Americans?

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
Because I am German, I must think everything in Germany is better? Yes? Check your default assumptions you might have made here.

I scanned the article. I didn't know about the many guns that are around in Germany, I don't understand then why there are less gun related killings. Are you saying that Germans are more law abiding and responsible people to not use their guns irresponsibly? What to do about the illegal guns that are around?

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@mimi

answer. Why, when gun ownership is so prevalent where you live, do you think it should be verboten here in this country? We have laws that, if enforced, would go a long way towards preventing things like mass shootings.

And it’s not like your country doesn’t have its own problems when it comes to mass murrders. I would think then that you would be able to understand that not all gun owners are responsible for what a few savages do. Were honest citizens punished because of these incidents? I know that they can still own firearms. So what did the German government do in response to these murders?

Cologne School massacre June 11, 1964 Cologne 10 deaths school massacre; 22 injured
Weapon flamr thrower and lance

Erfurt massacre April 26, 2002 Erfurt 17 deaths. school shooting; 7 injured

Winnenden school shooting March 11, 2009 Winnenden 16 deaths 9 injured

2016 Munich shooting July 22, 2016 Munich 10 deaths 35 injured

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Germany

Yeah, we have had a lot more of them. We need to fix the problem now. But not by taking away rights from law abiding citizens. Gun ownership is already restricted by gun laws which need to be enforced. And we need to close all the loopholes and require under penalty of law universal background checks and the prohibition of the sale of automatic and semi-automatic guns and devices tthat enable a gun to be modified .

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
answer to your comments. They are beyond my paygrade and my mental health is not at its best. It shows. All my bad. Please let me go and leave me in peace. Thanks.

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hecate's picture

@Amanda Matthews
who want guns are Sad. They live in Fear. They should go to a Doctor, and get some Medicine.

In my universe, there is but one gun in the nation, and it is in a museum. People go by and look at it, and wonder: what were they thinking?

Meanwhile, as set out below, your own link shows that gun-world in Germany is very different from that in the US. In any event, your repeated yowling about Germany, when mimi didn't mention the place, or try to defend it, your aggressive demand she explain "what makes it ok for Germans to own guns but not Americans," when she never made such an assertion, I find that kinda . . . weird.

Germans do not have fundamental rights to bear arms, unlike Americans do under the Second Amendment[.]

To get a gun, Germans must first obtain a firearms ownership license (Waffenbesitzkarte)—and you may need a different one for each weapon you buy—or a license to carry (Waffenschein).

They also have to pass a “specialized knowledge test” on guns and people younger than 25 applying for their first license must go through a psychiatric evaluation.

One must also prove a specific and approved need for the weapon, which is mainly limited to use by hunters, competitive marksmen, collectors and security workers—not for self-defence.

Once you have a license, you’re also limited in the number of and kinds of guns you may own, depending on what kind of license you have: Fully automatic weapons are banned for all, while semiautomatic firearms are banned for anything other than hunting or competitive shooting.

Under the reforms passed in the wake of a 2009 mass shooting, gun owners are also subject to continued monitoring by the government with officials able to ask gun owners at any time to enter their private property and check that they are properly storing their weapons.

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zoebear's picture

@hecate

For this particular poster when confronted with pushback.

In any event, your repeated yowling about Germany, when mimi didn't mention the place, or try to defend it, your aggressive demand she explain "what makes it ok for Germans to own guns but not Americans," when she never made such an assertion, I find that kinda . . . weird

.

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Soldier: What? Ridden on a horse?
King Arthur: Yes!
Soldier: You're using coconuts!
King Arthur: What?
Soldier: You've got two empty halves of a coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear

that I am not in favor of TIGHT gun restrictions.

FROM MY OP;

NOTE: I firmly believe Americans have a right to own guns, but absolutely NOT semi-automatic or automatic weapons OR any sttachment like bumpstocks that will transform a gun into one.

I think anyone buying a gun must be able to pass a background check, even if you’re selling it to your own mother.. Anyone who doesn’t do a background check should face prosecution. A national database needs to be established to ensure this is possible. The background check would have to be done prior to taking possession.

I also think ALL guns, no matter where or who they are purchased from, to be registered before taking physical possession. This would be done after the background check is complete and the buyer goes to take possession. Anyone caught with an unregistered gun goes to jail. I think that if a gun owner’s weapon is stolen or ‘otherwise’ turns uo missing, he/she would HAVE to report it to law enforcement or again face prosecution. (Some might not if they think a relative swiped it.)

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews

See, that makes too much sense to ever be enacted by the psychopathic loons-public-office uncaring of/amused by the idea of Americans - especially including publicly paid-for police officers who citizens have no more control over than they do over their corporate-interest-staffed governments - killing each other off nearly as fast as the 'cost-cutting' industry pollution and the lucrative-for-some poisoned corporate food/med/other product supply chain does.... well, not nearly that fast, but you get my drift...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@hecate seem perfectly reasonable to me.
I would like to see hand guns be banned here. Why stop at assault weapons!

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Mark from Queens's picture

@hecate
totally misguidedly conflating freedom with owning a gun. Rather than, say, getting free healthcare, nationalizing utilities, free internet, basic guaranteed income, free college tuition, etc provided by the government as a result of their tax dollars being wisely spent in a socialist economy. No, owning a guy is the height of freedom to these morons. That's Free-dumb. Maybe the fear-laden wouldn't be so hard up for guns, if they were given a chance at the real freedom a socialized economy would provide.

With every next massacre I seriously wonder how much longer I can abide this backward, morally bankrupt and corrupt American society, The pathetic obsession with guns single handedly makes me want to leave this shithole.

MM's essay and his, snoop and K9's comments covered this well:

https://caucus99percent.com/content/passion-gun-control

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"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:

THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"

- Kurt Vonnegut

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Mark from Queens

You want all those things? Then get off your high horse and propose some legislation to tighten the laws. Legislation that has a chance of passing. Then maybe we can move on to your laundry list of things that make more sense than amending the Constitution. Because once that door is openef you won’t like what comes next.

And can I get any airline travrel schedules for you? Because your dream of banishing all firearm ownership in this country is just that. A dream.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Mark from Queens I have explored 20 countries to see if expat is possible on my meager retirement.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@Amanda Matthews

It is obvious to them when information is being cherry-picked from from sources that actually say the opposite.

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@Amanda Matthews

Just to mention, other industrialized countries have gun owners (but no politically powerful organization of gun manufacturers raising fear-mongering public hysteria over 'they're taking your guns away!' claims) and do not have or need any claim of 'the right to bear arms (in well-regulated militias, as was then deemed necessary to the security of a free State - having no public police force or standing army)' written into their Constitutions, in actuality, as I've read in the past, to take the place of any standing army considered by various Founders - with justification - to pose a potential hazard (and seemingly unnecessary in a country unlikely to suffer massive invasion, once independence from Britain had been attained,) with State volunteer militias to be kept supplied with armaments stored and maintained by States in some cases apparently reluctant to accept the expense and thereby (as I recall reading) obliged to, under Constitutional law.

These other industrialized countries also do not have the number of police murders of civilians or of school and other mass shootings that the US does.

The US public has long been propaganda-instilled with the over-riding notion that 'might makes right' so that the most powerful can con the rest of the people into accepting this being imposed upon themselves by those with the most wealth, political power and brute force, whether being imposed by unjust 'law' or enabled by an overall ingrained unconscious public acceptance of the idea that the powerful can get away with murder by some 'right' assigned by 'might' by virtue of holding political power or influence in whatever form, rather than American citizens having the egalitarian society with the rights of all respected that they were promised in their Constitution and which seems to me to have been the real American dream.

Not 'get rich quick and the devil take the hindmost', this essentially signifying the indoctrination of 'might makes right' into society. As does the constant craving of some to have the ability to be able to pull out a gun at all times to reassure themselves over media-propagandized fears of brothers of another colour/religion/hair length/whatever; to shoot someone perceived as being more vulnerable, feeling the certainty of being able to get away with it, whether due to skin colour, uniform or higher social strata - or cherishing the Hollywood glow of 'going down in a blaze of glory' in a 'suicide by police' attempt to take out as many innocents as possible, as a perceived show of individuality/strength in a world where they have no real control over their own lives at all and have been carefully misdirected into divisively blaming other victims for their insecurity and misery by 'their betters' - who fear the unity of the people against their dictates.

So that protest over any potential public-protective regulation of 'gun rights' in no evident danger are backed by arms profiteers, while all other rights are stripped away; in some population segments, it appears that the 'might is right' propaganda has succeeded to the point where some believe that as long as they have their guns, they can do without all the rest - as long all of those 'othered' in propaganda seem to be suffering more than they. But how secure does the general public feel seeing strangers walking into crowded malls or other places often chosen by mass shooters with weaponry on their persons? One lot apparently had a shopping cart full of such weapons and passed without hindrance...

https://medium.com/@2RMaL/why-are-you-not-outraged-3cf8335b3a44

Bryan Driscoll
Political blogger. Avid traveler. Miles and points obsessed. Proud Chicagoan. Ruggedly handsome. http://bryanjdriscoll.com/ http://2rightsmakealeft.com/
Apr 27, 2016
Why Are You Not Outraged?

...Recall, if you will, the June 2014 mass shooting in Las Vegas by Jerad and Amanda Miller. These two transported their guns and ammunition through four miles of Las Vegas city streets. Four miles hauling a shopping cart overflowing with enough guns and ammo to supply a Rambo movie and not one resident or passerby thought to alert the authorities. How is it that we, as a society, don’t think twice about two people walking down the street with a shopping cart full of guns and ammo? In what world is that not an alarming sight?

The NRA and its plethora of gun advocates are getting exactly what they want. Mr. and Mrs. Miller purchased enough weapons and ammunition to fill a shopping cart. They had not committed a crime. They took the cart full of weapons and ammunition to a public area. They had not committed a crime. They walked four miles down public streets with the cart full of weapons and ammunition. They had not committed a crime. They took the cart full of weapons and ammunition to a pizzeria and murdered two police officers. At this moment, they finally committed their first crime of the day. Shouldn’t proactive legislation be enacted so scenarios like these can be stopped at the beginning instead of the unavoidable, tragic end? ...

That's not 'America's destiny' or any fault of Americans per se; that's been imposed, at various levels at various times, from the top down, by various generations of the pathologically greedy and power-seeking, resulting in what's now The Psychopaths That Be, having established, via ruthlessness, great wealth and a hold over industry, public policy and government from the early days, blighting the promise of the most enlightened of America's Founders.

Psychopaths are going to pathologize any society they gain power over; it's all they can perceive or know, it's what they do. Vote for humans only; if enough Progs can be gotten in despite all of the cheating, the facade of legitimacy can be ripped away to reveal the monster behind the curtain and show humanity what we're really dealing with. As the propagandists working against us know, a big enough outside threat will unite humanity against it, and there's no bigger threat existing that those they create and that they themselves pose to planetary life.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

QMS's picture

@Ellen North these are the real issues as far as I am concerned. The rest is fear and cowardice, from what I can see. May the shelter of considered reason umbrella the hostility that's bound to be directed our way.

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2 users have voted.

Listen to your higher mind.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Ellen North @Ellen North

against gun control is absolutely false. I really have to wonder what your motives are.

FROM MY ORIGINAL POST

NOTE: I firmly believe Americans have a right to own guns, but absolutely NOT semi-automatic or automatic weapons OR any sttachment like bumpstocks that will transform a gun into one.

I think anyone buying a gun must be able to pass a background check, even if you’re selling it to your own mother.. Anyone who doesn’t do a background check should face prosecution. A national database needs to be established to ensure this is possible. The background check would have to be done prior to taking possession.

I also think ALL guns, no matter where or who they are purchased from, to be registered before taking physical possession. This would be done after the background check is complete and the buyer goes to take possession. Anyone caught with an unregistered gun goes to jail. I think that if a gun owner’s weapon is stolen or ‘otherwise’ turns uo missing, he/she would HAVE to report it to law enforcement or again face prosecution. (Some might not if they think a relative swiped it.)

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews

Sorry you saw my comment that way! I expect it's my bad phrasing again; I read stuff which triggers associations and was expounding on what I see as root causes in attempting to make the point that this goes beyond gun regulation and that the effects of the 'leadership' and intensive propaganda/social engineering need to be taken into consideration. At least that was the plan...

America has specific problems which have been imposed upon the public by TPTB - including being the only country in the world suffering this epidemic of school shootings - and I feel it important to try to draw attention to that aspect, so I tried, lol.

Unfortunately, it seems to be impossible for me to evade deleterious chemical exposures in the home (worse lately with extra occupants ATM using a lot of rather devastating-to-me personal care products in both of the bathrooms and in their room just down the hall so that it collects right outside my door, sneaking in with pet comings and goings, as well as my own,) the inhalation of which have many unfortunate effects on me, some too-frequently also involving what I term 'brain-scramble' which makes it difficult to express myself coherently. (But the female half, who has various issues, insists that she loves perfumes and other chemical products so much that they're apparently a need for her; they only expect to be here while they find a new place; she apparently can't do without frequent spraying of various products during that period - and that's apparently that... I have to wait to breathe properly later, assuming my lungs finally unclog and unstiffen, not to mention the various other effects...)

I do understand that when we're living with high levels of stress, especially within the home, where we ought to feel safe and sheltered, accumulated emotional bruising can lead us to think that various contacts are intended to hurt because that's been part of our experiences and we grow to expect them, which can be a surprise to those not intending to do so and thinking that they were merely adding to a conversation.

And I have no doubt that my phrasing could be at fault, even if I can't personally see, at least at the moment, how it was taken that way, but I was actually just trying to add a point I consider essential; if root causes are not addressed, the symptoms will continue to be created, regardless of law.

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Ellen North @Ellen North

case of a couple people, outright claiming, that I support these mass killings. I explained in very specific detail what I think should.be done, which is probably like you said, more than we could ever get when it comes to gun control. But to me, nothing I said was unreasonable and it would go a long way toward keeping guns out of the hands of people who should never have them. There is no way in hell gun control is going to turn into gun prohibition. The all-or-nothing people would rather spew unrealistic crap than come up with any solutions to a deadly serious problem that should have been solved decades ago. That why NOTHING ever gets done. They’re as extremist as the whacks that don’t think we need any new legislation or action on gun control whatsoever.

At least what I suggested Is a damn site more likely to happen than tinkering around with the 2nd Amendment. Start that crap and see what happens next. It won’t stop there. The right has a lot of things they’d love to fix permanently, like protecting the ‘right to life’ of the unborn for example. Or Affirmative Action. The right would love nothing better than the Left set the precedent of amending the Constitution to change or eliminate rights protecting legislation that has been enacted to protect women, children, the aged, and the poor. They would eliminate every act, law, or whatever, that they see as giving certain people ‘special ‘’protections’ or ‘privileges’.

There’s a couple others here, including one who says I make him ‘sick’ that have been real sweethearts. But neither one of them acknowledged one single word I wrote about what I think should be done to keep guns out of the hands of criminals, the mentally ill, or juveniles. Since they chose to ignore what I said in my OP I choose to ignore their disingenuous nonsense. They went exactly where you did, pretending that I said nothing in my post about gun control. And then there’s the one who likes to point fingers and make snide remarks and then suddenly develops the vapors when asked what she’s talking about.

Oh no, I don’t think I misunderstood anything.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Amanda Matthews's picture

gun owners. My younger brother’s father had a gun because he took the daily receipts from his bar to the bank late at night. He was an older guy but not helpless by any means and he made sure he had his gun in his glove compartment all the time..He thought he was going to be robbed one night but when he took his gun out and laid it on the front seat, the guys who he was worried about took off.

I've even given fleeting thought of getting one a time or two myself but haven't.

But a much bigger reason I think the way i do is I can tell you about three women, one in her 70s who was working in her own liquor store, and one who was 81 (someone I've known for over six decades) who worked in the bar of a very good friend (and had for two decades). In fact, it was my youngest brothers father’s bar. (Both those women were raped, beaten unmercifully, and left for dead.) And also one woman in her 30s who was sound asleep in her own bedroom when attacked.

I don't know if Lorna (the liquor store owner) would have shot anyone in self defense if there was a gun in the store, but I know two of her three daughters who also worked there would have in less than a heartbeat. (I went to high school with them.) The liquor store is in a seedy neighborhood on Leavenworth Street. It carried basic groceries because there are no grocery stores around there and she had quite a good business. (She recently sold it.) She was closing up one night and there was only one guy in there and he was acting like he was looking for something so to speed things up she went back to help him and that's when he started pounding on her. She was a short, chubby old lady and she took one hell of a beating. Her face was apparently unrecognizable (so her oldest daughter LaRue told me) when they found her in there. Her other daughter had gone down there to check on her when she didn't answer her phone and since it was late so they knew something was wrong. They thought that Lorna wasn't going to live long enough to get to the hospital, but she was a tough old bird. Lorna also had dozens of friends on the Omaha Police Force and they pulled out all the stops to catch the guy. He was caught and convicted and is currently in prison. From that point until the liquor store was sold, there was a gun in a drawer under the counter that the register sat o unless my friends were working and then it was on their person.

Dorothy, the 81-year old wasn't expected to live either, but she did; Everyone,from her doctors, to her family and her friends were all amazed that a woman that old woman could take a beating that bad and survive. But she did although she had severe health problems from that time forward. She'd have definitely killed the guy if she had the opportunity. She said so many times. She wasn't afraid of anything or anyone. At least up until then. I understand that she put up a hell of a fight for an old woman. This happened a little over 20 years ago. The guy was caught and convicted and is currently in prison last I heard. Dorothy took my Mom and us kids in when we had no place to live. She is a good woman. After that her oldest kid made her move back down South to live with her even though she didn’t want to go. But she had to because of the injuries she received. I miss her terribly.

Finally we get to #3. When I was 12 and living in the Pleasant View (hahahaha) Housing Projects in North Omaha, a guy broke in our unit at around 2:00 a.m. one summer night. He made it all the way upstairs to my Mom's room and put a screw driver to her throat and told her he'd kill her if she made a sound. My Mom being Mom, she started screaming her head off. That guy took off like the proverbial scalded dog when he heard seven pairs of feet hit that floor and come running. My brother John ran into him as he came out of her room and started running down the stairs and got a good look at him, I only saw his back. Mom had knocked the screw driver out of his hand but the cops said there were no fingerprints on it. They never caught him. I remember we could still smell his body odor all that day and into the next. Weird the stuff you remember, isn't it? My Mom did eventually get a gun I found out recently. She said she was not going to live alone and unprotected. She passed away a few years ago. I found out about the gun from my brother. I don’t know why she never told me. I certainly would have understood.

So trust me, you won't EVER see me calling for confiscation of guns from American citizens. Because I know two of those three women would have shot their attackers on the spot given a gun and the opportunity. Who knows, maybe Lorna would have too. LaRue and Dian kept it on them when they worked at the store. They had every right to do exactly that. And for two of those women, it would have saved them from experiencing one of every human being’s greatest fears, someone trying to kill them.

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6 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mimi's picture

@Amanda Matthews
and I can understand why you would them to have their guns. But the problem is not that have their guns, but that they live in that much fear they believe they HAVE TO HAVE guns and couldn't survive otherwise.

I just don't like to live in a country like that anymore. And I know US conditions of social, cultural and gun related issues are creeping into many other countries. Something I don't like. Keep your guns, if you want, but don't ask me to have them in my backyard.

I don't trust any law abiding gun owners. Because I don't trust mankind to be responsible. I think it has been proven often enough that they aren't.

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zoebear's picture

@mimi @mimi

I think another issue that disturbs me in addition to living a life of fear, are the conditions that place you in a neighborhood where you constantly feel like a potential victim.

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7 users have voted.

Soldier: What? Ridden on a horse?
King Arthur: Yes!
Soldier: You're using coconuts!
King Arthur: What?
Soldier: You've got two empty halves of a coconut and you're bangin' 'em together.

@mimi hauling prisoners in a van who were doing community service. He had a background check, a psychological exam, and references to get the job. He was not issued a service weapon.
And he shot his wife, decapitated her, threw her body in the National Forest. Only her head was found.
So, he is in prison for life.
She had worked at a grocery store, used to bring carrots to my pasture fence and feed my horses on her way home from work.
I really liked her.
None of the safeguards on gun ownership worked in her favor.
I would be very happy to see the 2nd Amendment abolished.

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8 users have voted.

Those that want to keep prodding us to fight each other are running out of wedge issues. A wedge issue needs to be unsolvable and arouse the strongest passions on both sides to be exploitable. It seems like gay marriage is no longer a wedge issue. There is still a large effort to milk the racism as a source of fighting each other but that may have maxed out too. I guess they still got abortion. I don't think they can keep us fighting each other for much longer. We're going to all see that there are real issues that everybody agrees on except the corrupted. Issues like money in politics, net neutrality, health-care, endless war...Can't happen soon enough.

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4 users have voted.

Beware the bullshit factories.

smiley7's picture

Civility better than taking down others and so on...

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5 users have voted.

If excessive sales are the only way that corporations can stay afloat, they should move out of the way and let smaller, more efficient businesses - run by actual business-people aware of what the business needs to do regarding maintenance and quality (which are evidently not issues for most CEOs/corporations,) and caring about the actual businesses, rather than simply predating for immediate excess profits and their own cut - take over. And, of course, all pay a living wage, which goes with the territory, so that people can afford to buy their products, just as Ford was smart enough to figure out back when sanity in business was becoming more often a thing.

Whatever is unsustainable cannot be sustained; what could possibly be more blindingly obvious a fact? Except perhaps that of reality itself actually being real; changing people's perceptions to what isn't real results in people walking over unperceived cliffs.

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2 users have voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.