The Reagans were gay friendly -according to Clinton
It may be hard for your viewers to remember how difficult it was for people to talk about HIV/AIDS back in the 1980s. And because of both President and Mrs. Reagan -- in particular Mrs. Reagan -- we started a national conversation. When before nobody would talk about it, nobody wanted to do anything about it, and that too is something that I really appreciate with her very effective, low key advocacy but it penetrated the public conscious and people began to say, 'Hey, we have to do something about this too.
-Hillary Clinton
Huffpo
Which, of course is a complete pile of BS. the Raegan's were homophobes who were completely indifferent to the suffering that the disease caused. They famously turned their backs on their close friend Rock Hudson. Ronald Reagan didn't even say the word 'AIDs' for five years and didn't give a speech on the subject for seven.
“They are both responsible for the death of thousands from HIV in the LGBT community due to their inaction in the 1980’s. So I understand the anger in the LGBT community toward Nancy. I feel that anger as well.”
-Kenneth Bunch. Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence
Guardian
Two possibilities: Clinton genuinely believes that the Reagan's were a force for good regarding gay rights in which case she is so out of touch and misinformed that she should never even be considered for the presidency. Or she has done the math and worked out that praising the Reagans on this subject is likely to be the best thing for her own political capital. Based on past performance, my money is firmly on the latter.
Either way though this is yet another illustration of just how unfit Clinton is to be president.
Comments
OMFG
That's it. Clinton can go fuck herself, I will NEVER vote for her now.
> Which, of course is a complete pile of BS. the Raegan's were homophobes who were completely indifferent to the suffering that the disease caused.
When asked about a report that 300 Americans died from AIDS, their reaction was _public laughter in the WH press room_ because it was "just gay people".
I had a very good college friend who died from AIDS shortly after Reagan left office. GRRRRRRRR God my teeth are on edge now, FUCK CLINTON.
Agree totally
I remember reading about the press room incident and was appalled. The indifference was horrible
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Truly unbelievable
Every time I think HRC cannot sink any lower she then manages to do exactly that. I cannot believe any member of the LGBT community could possibly vote for this horrible human being. This is a new low...
Hillary, You Ignorant...
This was downright INSULTING. But If anybody is going to defend Reagan's MASS Murder, it would of course be Hillary...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFwODaF1yGU]
Because I'm keeping this on Standby for Hillary, for the REst of the damn Election.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Nope. Not just Hillary
Her fucking supporters are all over the diary about it on Kos. Loge, Anna Shane, and others. I given out all my flags today. I can't believe that people on a democratic website are fucking defending the Reagans.
I lost my brother to it and went to countless funerals and made friends with the young gay men that came in to our office because they were going blind from the cytomegalovirus. My brother also went blind from it and it attacked his brain. He finally lost the ability to speak and I never got to hear him say that he loved me or tell me goodbye.
I was so happy when I learned that Reagan was losing his mind and died a blithering idiot.
This has opened up a lot of painful wounds for many people who lost their partners, parents and siblings.
I recently lost my mom and this has torn me up
Fuck you Hillary, seriously, fuck you!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Rage doesn't even come close to covering it.
This is fucking disgusting to hear. Goddamn Reagan defenders.
Suppose with Kissinger it was only a matter of goddamn time, but of all the things to DEFEND him on, she picked this one? And Then apologized for mis-speaking? BULL FUCKING SHIT.
Straight up, if the media gives her a free pass on this one because she Non-pologized, I'm going to find a gym to take out some serious anger...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Too angry to make mush sense
This was a calculated lie by Clinton, and SOP, she will "misspeak" wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and get what ever political advantage she calculated she would get from the lie, while pretending to be "sorry" for saying it.
I am so beyond being willing to listen to her "apologies" for when she "misspeaks."
Mostly, I really don't like the way Ifeel when I even think about the Clintons, and I have to live with myself.
PLEASE MAKE THEM GO AWAY!!!!!
President Sanders: an idea whose time has come.
Really sorry about your brother
I lost a friend and he had an easier time at the end than your brother - can't imagine what you must have gone through.
As for the others -I would leave them to it. They are an extremely loud obnoxious but tiny minority. Seriously, I never meet their equivalents in real life.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Thanks, steve
He weighed over 180 lbs before he got sick and when he died he weigh under 70lbs. His arms and legs were sticks.
It was a very difficult time for our family. He was everyone's favorite.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
I too would like to offer my sympathies...
I'm quite a bit younger than most folks here, but even as a kid I can remember what was going on.
So, I offer what comfort my words can give in the face of this re-opening of old wounds.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Thanks, dmw
I emailed a friend about this and he asked me why what Hillary said has upset me so much. It's as you wrote. It opens the wounds back up and as I mentioned, my mom died a month ago. Each death opens the wounds of previous ones.
My brother's death was very hard for me. I had experienced 15 big life changing events in less than 18 months and his death caused a nervous breakdown.
I had experienced a significant death, a long term relationship ended, quit my job, moved to another state, started a new job, new relationship, quit job, new job, new relationship, it ended, got fired, new job, first dog died, health problems, then my brother's death along with a few other things.
Now I'm being told to get over it and quit living in the past.
Many people were very involved during the epidemic and saw many friends die horribly from it while Reagan and the world told them that they deserved it. I fought with act up and other organizations to get help from our government who were content on watching people die and blaming them because of their lifestyle.
Even after it got in the blood supply and kids and straight people were dying too.
Now to be told to quit living in the past is hurtful.
I am allowed to grieve for not only my mom and brother, but for the people who are dealing with the same emotions that they are experiencing after what Hillary said today.
I was at the display of the Quilt on the Mall when the Clintons and Gotes came out to see it and read the name of the more than 50,000 people who had died.
I tell you, that was a sight to see. From the Washington monument to the capital building, it was full of quilts.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
The rewriting of history is shameful
Thank you for that. I know it's not an easy thing to talk about, especially for those who were in the thick of it.
I hate to go Godwin, but I fear I must.
Hillary's supporters are using the EXACT tactics that Holocaust Deniers have used, and it is disgusting on so many levels I can't fathom it. Nit-picking tiny details, random statements of supporters of the perpetrators, and whole sale denial of the testimony of people who lived through it because "There are still gay people around, and they aren't complaining". Add to that the idea that somehow it's not as bad as it COULD have been.
This kind of rhetoric is foul beyond comparison and it brings me great shame that Americans are engaged in it. I know I can't change it, but I can sure as HELL call it out when I see it. These people are cribbing from the Institute of Historical Review and it makes me want to vomit.
Sorry to rant, just trying to express my frustration at what I'm seeing.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
bless your heart
It pains me that you or anyone had flashbacks because of fucking Hillary fucking Clinton running her mouth. I lost a cousin, a close friend, and a client. Like your beloved brother, these people were deserving of help. They didn't get it from Nancy Reagan.
Your grief is yours.
It is also mine now.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
true
I hear you and think this sentence is true.
https://www.euronews.com/live
So many good people
My friend was a psychiatric therapist and his job was counselling HIV patients from the time of diagnosis until death - which wasn't usually very long in those days. Nicest and one of the mentally strongest guys I ever new but the job almost destroyed him.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I remember the pages and pages
of obituaries in the SF gay press when Mr. Scribe and I were dating in the late 1980s and would pick up papers like the Bay Area Reporter to find out what was really happening that the mainstream media wasn't talking about.
Blessings and peace to you and your family.
Thank you, Cali
For your kind words.
Yes the BAR was so full of obituaries it was amazing. And so sad.
The one good thing that happened from the epidemic was it brought gays and lesbians together. Before the epidemic it seemed like they were two separate groups and they didn't get along well. That's how I remember it.
But many gay people are in health care, especially lesbians. I think it's a compassion thing. I don't know how else to explain it.
But many young gay men/boys had been kicked out of their families because they were both gay and infected. So the lesbians that took care of them became friends with them.
I worked in ophthalmology at the time and gays were going blind from the cytomegalovirus infection and they were terrified as I suppose you can imagine.
At the start of the epidemic, people wouldn't touch them from fear of getting infected. I always made sure to touch them and treat them with kindness.
I made 6 friends after they came in and would do all kinds of things with them and their partners.
Then I would have to go to their funerals.
And we had so many other gay friends and we had to go to their funerals too. I think we went to 25 or more. It was a horrible time.
There's another diary on Kos and meleka wrote a horrible comment, then said it was snark. Unfuckingbelieveable that she would write what she did. She trolled the diary and Hillary's supporters stuck up for her. Then she wrote that she's a lesbian over 5 times.
Her comment was over the top and I'm reporting her. If she doesn't get a time out for what she wrote, well I don't know what.
Peace to you and Mr. Scribe
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated communist, but people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists.
~Hannah Arendt
Her brain is unfit for the job
I'll leave my personal feelings out of this, because if I start, I will make myself sick. I don't want to be sick. I'm already in pain a lot of the time, so I won't add to it. I think that in her deepest intellectual recesses, she still thinks of HIV much like both the Reagans did..... put it in a closet and puhleeze forget it, eh? Because it's a "gay" thing in her warped mind... Sorry, if some of you disagree, but there's a pong of homophobia about it. But that is secondary to the main issue, competency.
I don't think Clinton can remember things. I really think she has forgotten stuff she needs just to get through this election I don't want her sitting in the Oval Office with a mind too slow to manage the job. Sanders, who's older is IMNSHO in better shape, and he's CONSISTENT. Clinton isn't and I don't trust her ability to do a job, much less to do it the way I think it should be done.
I may not live long enough to see a woman President, though I'd adore seeing Warren in that swivel chair. I *really would. Clinton isn't the one. I lost a shitload of friends and acquaintances on Delphi over this 8 years ago when she was up against Obama. I infected my husband with passion for Obama, and he HATED Clinton. I didn't hate her. I didn't think of her as a Democrat, but instead as a DINO.. and also I've met both the Clintons. Bill's mind is AMAZING.. a near eidetic memory, the ability to juggle things in front of him intellectually and not lose track of any of them.. His wife never at her best had that. I think that, like me, her body is not strong enough for 4, much less 8, years in office. I would gamble on Sanders with Warren as a warmup.
BUT, FOLKS, MOST OF ALL, WE NEED TO GET 90% OF THE REPUBLICANS AND SOME OF THE DINOS OUT OF THE HOUSE.. ****AND**** THE SENATE.
******************************
Muerte al fascismo. Muerte a la tiranía. colapso total de los que promueven tampoco. A la pared con el unico porciento%
I'm still hopeful
on some of the Democrats if we can get Sanders elected -- there may be some who are sick of playing "the game" of chasing after the lobbyists' checks and Big Money Politics, and with significant campaign finance reform would find their better angels and become good public servants. Mainly the ones you never see on the talking head shows for the most part. I'll give folks an election cycle or two to prove themselves.
55,000 dead before he even mentioned the disease.
This is bad
You can not rewrite history and think no one will notice. However, she is a great liar so this should not be a surprise, but damn so stupid and sad.
This is what I don't really get
thinking about this I don't really see the upside for her - she lies because she can, its like breathing to her
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Old Lady politics were successful at Kos yesterday...
Apparently, nice stories about people were focus testing well...
Too bad she decided to go "Nice Old Lady" on somebody who left a foul stench in the White House for over 30 years.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Not just lies
all pols lie but she takes the reality that people have lived through and stands it on it's head. Nancy Regan, Kissinger,Mubarak,Madeline Albright, Margert Thatcher, Blair, Goldwater, Summers, Rahm, Boo Hiss. Look at the people she touts and overtly stands with even now that their policy's and agenda have failed and the world at large has declared to be war crimes. Not to mention the economic 1% crimes that are hell for most people. What? She channels and believes in nothing that is nothing any way democratic or Democratic. We all have lived young, old and in between the damage done to humans and the planet. Of course she lies. The truth out there shows her up for what she is. What i cannot grasp is why anyone even considers her lies worthy of defending. Even worse even if her lies we're truth why would anyone who's got a grain of humanity think they we're worthy of consideration. They are at best the stuff that historically nasty Empire's use to justify their nasty as want to rule the world ideology So what's the difference between the Hillary and the scary RW dudes we need to vote against? Not much, not enough. Is Bernie enough, it's worth taking a chance on, once again. You never know perhaps he is not just another shallow entertainer.
I believe she and her "genius team"
are not aware that b/c of zee intertoobz, stuff can come back an "bite 'er on the ass".
Historical reference: Canadian missionary to China, Dr Robert Baird McClure (FRCPS(E)) [apocryphal] about Canadian Prime Minister W L McK King:
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
I think there's a lot to that
She is running the type of campaign that worked when the TV networks were both god and gatekeeper. The campaign has not adapted to a world where people can fact check them on the fly and run comparisons of events and speeches years or even decades apart.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I believe she and her "genius team"
are not aware that b/c of zee intertoobz, stuff can come back an "bite 'er on the ass".
Historical reference: Canadian missionary to China, Dr Robert Baird McClure (FRCPS(E)) [apocryphal] about Canadian Prime Minister W L McK King:
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Sorry for double post.
Getting used to reddit.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Apparently, she thinks that
Apparently, she thinks that she can. Part of the Political Shift To The Right To Get Elected crap we've been fed for way too long...
It is not WHAT you think, but HOW you think that matters.
aka HonorFredHampton on TOP
incredible.
really. i could spit blood. we have real fucking problems. dire and imminent problems. what? she didn't think we had as much audacity as she? that we wouldn't march right over Nancy's freshly dug grave to confront her bullshit?
co opting Reagan, co opting Obama. co opting Bernie's platform. she doesn't give a shit about this world. she's only interested in herself.
keyrist. almighty. it really moves me to a dangerous place: where I simply can not justify respect for anyone defending her or voting for her. really. i mean, what is it she's doing? is she trying to divide us more? make me argue with my sister over this.
fuck.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
I am with you 100%
This isn't nuanced - she is a really shitty individual on all levels
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
I even briefly logged onto the other place
to make a comment about this one. She's positioning for the General. Sickening, the lies. She could have said nice things but there was NO NEED to go here except political expediency. Just stunning, but then this is a woman who is pals with Henry Fucking Kissinger.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
She's already in General Election Mode
and trying to appeal to the "reasonable Republicans" who don't want to vote for Donald Trump but need a reason to vote for her.
She could have ignored the Reagans and their non-response to the AIDS crisis, and focused instead on Nancy Reagan's support for stem cell research; granted it was for selfish reasons, only jumped on the bandwagon after Ronnie got the official Alzheimer's diagnosis though it was clear he started declining in his second term of office if not before but it's the closest to actual science acceptance we've heard from anyone in the GOP in decades.
I had not considered this as a move to the General
but you may have put your finger on something. HRC rarely does much of anything without some element of calculation, I think. She may well have seen a Reagan funeral as a heaven-sent opportunity to pick up some "won't vote for Trump" country club votes. Still, there must have been less lossy ways to pander...
Well, they don't make hearing aids
for tone deafness.
pfiore,
Your comment summarizes my own feelings exactly. I have been avoiding posting on this thread because I am so angry at the Clintons and even angrier at those who defend and vote for her. I honestly believe that she may be the most unfit human being to ever run for office. Just when I thought my disgust could not get any higher, it went through the roof at her comment and subsequent nonapology yesterday.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
She makes Blaine (1884) look like Truthful James
James G. Blaine, infamously, lost the 1884 election to Grover Cleveland because of his reputation for dishonesty, untruthfulness and corrupt dealing. "Blaine, Blaine, James G. Blaine, the continental liar from the state of Maine, 'Burn this letter!" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_G._Blaine#Campaign_against_Cleveland
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
stevej, I briefly put up another essay on the same topic
but unpublished it when I saw yours. No need for redundancies.
This is pretty much already making the rounds. The funniest comment I have seen so far was one at DU:
They started a "national conversation about AIDS" the same way Bill and Hillary started a "national conversation about blow jobs in the workplace"
*****************************************************
But seriously folks, there is nothing funny about trying to burnish the Reagan legacy in an area where they failed miserably. Apparently Hillary has issued a "terse" retraction and her campaign said she mispoke and was really referring to Alzheimers which is total bs because the comments about AIDS came aftershe had already discussed Alzheimers.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
ah HA
that's what happened when I tried to post a comment in your essay. and when i went to look for it, i thought: am i so angry i'm imagining things?
glad you posted this comment.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
I pretty much covered exactly the same ground
When you think of it, some of the things Hillary has put out there almost defy belief - sniper fire at the Tuzla airport, Nancy Reagan being an AIDS advocate, etc. so now I have a new theory that she is really an ambassador from another dimension and occasionally she has a hard time sorting out the two realities. Why is she so interested in UFOs?
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
ha excellent!
Scary when
makes just as much sense as any other possible explanation.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
yeah. she gets confused
between I Love Lucy and The RoadRunner input into acting like a human.
it gets more and more bizarre.
bwahahahahahahahahaha
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
the RoadRunner input
Right cartoon, wrong character. HRC is definitely Wile E. Coyote. And she wants to take the whole country with her straight off the effing cliff!
[video:https://youtu.be/Gq_bjaI0NTo]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Mispoke
Is that really even a word, or one invented for Hillary Windsock Clinton.
Mispoke, is that on the same scale as lied? Put my foot in my Big Fat Open Pretend I See & Recognize Someone I Know Mouth?
Impossible to describe how much I am lowering my opinion of the Clintons, shocks the hell out of me, cuz didn't think it could go any lower.
EVIL human being, just plain unvarnished evil.
President Sanders: an idea whose time has come
I'll let a Gay man who died of AIDS respond
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oU7rqB9E_0M]
NOBODY Believes you anymore, Hillary.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Best reply I have seen/read
Best reply I have seen/read today.
War, War Never Changes - Fallout Series
beLIEve Hillary?
Would to Cat that were true, DMW.
We both know it isn't. There are plenty of folks out there who beLIEve in every word she says.
The Kos is thoroughly infested with them, starting with the proprietor.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Not sure if Markos believes everything
or if he's just in Pragmatic Mode and forgot about the "better" part of the "more and better Democrats" slogan. Or maybe that was just marketing to draw the rest of us in.
There are still good people there -- for the most part they're not on the front page though.
It's bullshit...
Because if you insert 'Alzheimer's' instead of HIV/AIDs, the comment doesn't make sense. Also, if you misspoke, you are likely to replace an 'a'-word with another 'a'-word - which means she would have just said 'AIDs' not 'HIV/AIDs'. She fucking said it on purpose. Or she is losing it. Either way, not fit to be president.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Misspeak
Yes, it's a word, American English, no less:
Misspeak
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Phoebe
I was trying to check if anyone else had covered this but was having trouble getting pages to load so I put it up anyway. Sincere apologies if I missed yours.
I wanted to get a link up to the Guardian because it gave some interesting background re the San Francisco scene especially the Sisters of Perpetual Indulgence. Didn't highlight that in the post so as not to dilute the main point - i.e. the sheer appallingness of HRC
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
No, you posted first
I too was locked out when I was trying to preview and post but when I did get through I immediately saw yours and you already had comments. Yours was better than mine anyway, so I was happy to take it down.
I don't think it's a bad thing to have multiple diaries on the same topic IF they are substantially different or one has a different angle than the other , then I'm fine with it. But aside from that, why turn a river into two streams?
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
heh - I doubt that
I've read many of your posts in my time as a lurker -enjoyed them all
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
both of you
are wonderful writers. Thank you for sharing your talents with us.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hear, hear, here here.
But I repeat myself.
But I repeat myself.
And...
As I said below - if you substitute 'Alzheimer's' - it doesn't make sense. Everybody was talking about Alzheimer's in the 80's.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
Not going to mince words: she's a FUCKING LIAR
In the 80's they were trying to NOT talk about Alzheimer's, because of goddamn Reagan being a puppet because of it. She's LYING in her non-apology. Jesus Christ, this woman lies so much she doesn't even know what the fucking truth IS anymore.
Hillary, Straight up. Only thing you can do right now:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgsEdU4l8XQ]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Liar, and worse
this from the person who said, on the floor of the senate, in 2004:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6I1-r1YgK9I
May she find that Special Place in Hell her good friend Madeleine Albright spoke of.
Yup
Every position on every topic - Hill has it covered.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Ron & Nan loved gays
Let's remember that much of what Hillary says is not factual but an example of what is known as truthiness; that is: wouldn't it be nice is said actually were a fact? Hillary supporters will tell you that people who call Hillary out on this kind of thing are not very nice and that is a fact.
I've been saying for a while that
sooner or later Hillary Clinton is going to put her foot in her mouth so far and so hard it will come out her ass.
I think she just did.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
she did not mean AIDS, for gosh sakes!
when she said Nancy Reagan was an advocate for gay people and brought HIV/AIDs to the public attention ...well first of all she meant Martin Luther King Jr, not Nancy Reagan, she meant humanity, not gay people, and she meant civil rights, not HIV/AIDS.
I want one of those Secret Decoder Rings
so I can understand what she's "really" saying. Do they still come in boxes of Cracker Jack?
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
and a "boo" directed at Dan Savage
who correctly called her out and then, later, for some reason decided he had to criticize Bernie too.
Savage has been on my shit list for years.
Ever since he decided that I don't exist.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I kind of agree with
his criticism of Bernie. I mean what's with the deference to creepy nasty first ladies or anyone in power. Especially the Raygun's who's administration was a template for the destruction of what little difference their party wise in the duopoly we're living under. Thatcher and Raygun and Mrs. Raygun do deserve to be off limit. They helped wreck the place electorally and in every other way. Not to mention the Nixonites that his administration contained. Cheney, Rumsey, the whole criminal gang lot of lawless unitary executive power lovers, trickle down voodoo economic and neocon torturers. Ir was the new dawn of the [present American face and chock full of bigots who pander the fundies. I guess I don't like Bernies reply at all. Come on Bernie why act like the Rayguns were anything but what they we're. btw St. Ronnie was Governor of CA when I was a kid and my moderate parents hated him and Nancy. They were well known commie hunters back in the bad old days. Just say no! Nancy was as creepy as St. Ronnie.
next up for Hillary, a non-apology for her lying non-apology
I hate that look on her face when she pooh-poohs the suggestion that she needs to deal with anything.
Larry Kramer responded:
Beat in the USA.
"May" lose my vote?
Oooohh, that's sooooo scary!
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
reagans
Which Hillary? Elizabeth Warren said it best (your people are your policies) Kissinger,Reagans cant wait to see whos next and lets not forget Bill and old man Bush best buds.
Is anyone surprised?
Hey! She claimed outright that Bernie hates auto workers and supports Militias!! Are you the least bit surprised at anything that comes out of her mouth at this point?!?
Not me, and - BTW - screw HRC and DK!!
It is not WHAT you think, but HOW you think that matters.
aka HonorFredHampton on TOP
Insult to Injury?
Apparently, Andrea gave Mrs. Clinton a do-over that spoke only to ALZ, eliminated the reference to AIDS, and then disappeared the original. I think if you look on the news now you will never see the AIDS statement, but only the reference to ALZ. The MSNBC position is that the original never happened. Not sure as I haven't seen it myself.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Yup. Flat out Propaganda
This is full on 1984 shit.
Of course the MSM has chosen their side, and is trying to shut down this narrative HARD because it affects a demographic that the Hillary believed she had all sewn up in CA and NY.
Course they also forget that LGBT folks are quite used to having to tell the truth within their own communities because of government propaganda to pretend certain things don't happen.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I have a diary
up on DKOS asking if the FP will say anything.
But it really is a credibility issue of the first order. The comments in my diary basically excusing it are amazing.
that was a great diary, fladem. Unbelievable comments.
50,000 dead. Most were young. And Hillary "misremembers"?
People my age remember only too well. Everyone my age knew someone who died of AIDS.
But those deaths were just something else for Hillary to use as fodder for one of her needless lies.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
I'm about 11-12 years younger
than Hillary Clinton, and I remember far too well -- it didn't stop in the 1980s either; found out years after I left a job that two of my former co-workers had died of AIDS. Mr. Scribe's step-grandmother's only son also died of the disease. In the 1990s I knew a couple of men, partners and Episcopal priests, who were HIV+ but thanks to medical advances and the "cocktail" of drugs, were doing quite well. (They moved to NYC a couple of decades ago; one of them still works for the ECUSA's Church Divinity Fund last I checked so at least I know he's still around.)
Terrific diary
Daily kos and Markos himself should be ashamed. Oh, I forgot, having tons of money washes away any ability to feel shame.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Just finished reading
your excellent diary and the comments. To be honest I am pleasantly surprised at just how many are on the right side of this and are still justifiably angry and moved by it. As for the apologists, they are the usual suspects who manage to create noise way disproportionate to their actual numbers - they are the ones who would defend HRC regardless of subject or atrocity.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
so I shoulda known better but went over to DK
to see how this story was playing out over there.
Several diaries about it on rec list. Crickets from the front page. Front page put up a story about Obama signing Ledbetter bill with flattering pic of Hillary watching him.
In comments, Hillary supporters defending her. There is nothing, nothing she can say or do that these Hillary supporters will not defend. Unbelievable.
Everyone my age knows someone who died of AIDS while Reagan ignored the crisis. 50,000 dead. Every gay man who died had sisters, brothers, parents, friends, and co-workers. If Hillary thinks this will cost her only the votes of a few gay men, she is wrong. Many many straight people are also still grieving the loss of a beloved young man to this very day. So many beautiful young men cut down and lost to us. 50,000 gone who should still be here with us.
Hillary lies for no good reason. Lying is just a habit with her. And this lie was particularly callous, opening up agonizing wounds. Rubbing salt in those wounds.
No wonder the more people get to know Hillary, the less they like her or trust her.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
I agree...
Course, I've been raging for hours on this here, so... you can see how I feel about it just by a cursory glance.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I work in theater.
So many good artists gone to aids.
Some of the best designers I ever painted for are gone. Their talent, gone. And the world is darker for it.
I don't know why she did this. Could she have broken any more taboos? To speak of such a thing at a funeral where the person being buried would be deeply offended? On a topic of such horror and death, that effects so many people. Talk about divisive.
Has Hillary decided to throw the election, or is this her round about way of supporting Trump Supporters, since she knows that Berners will never vote for her.?
I have no need to beat you, I just want to go my way."~ Malcolm Renyolds
on inevitability and moral courage
Reposting something I said on kos earlier, it's perhaps worthy to begin the conversation on how best to broach this subject with a friends who are still enthralled with her... I would say that there are different kinds of evil in the world and :
For those that argue about voting the lesser of two evils I would argue that perhaps this is understood in terms that are very nerdy but very effective:
the alignments according to Dungeons and Dragons:
A neutral evil character does whatever he/she can get away with. He/She is out for him/herself, pure and simple. He/She sheds no tears for those he/she kills, whether for profit, sport, or convenience. [...] Neutral evil beings consider their alignment to be the best because they can advance themselves without regard for others.
I’m just gonna leave this here for the literary minded and those with love of the medieval:
In Dante Alighieri’s Divina Commedia, he and his guide Virgil encounter a group of people called “Gli Ignavi” (a word that doesn’t really translate perfectly in to English but that comes from the latin ignavus meaning “lazy”) in a place called the vestibule of hell (Antiferno in Italian, literally preceding hell) .
The damned souls here are considered so vile and beneath dignity that they aren’t even welcomed into hell since they never took a stand in life on things that mattered namely good and evil and instead lazily submitted to the opinions of others they considered stronger than them.
Their punishment: forced to run around naked for all eternity chasing a flag that spins around and flies very fast… never being able to catch it… while they are continuously stung by insects.
sound familiar:
http://i.imgur.com/4lIqvD4.gif
You can't be neutral on a moving train
- Howard Zinn
Late to the conversation, I
Late to the conversation, I believe this is a conservative democrat type tactic similiar to what we see here in southern Indiana. Hillary is targeting to undermine the independent and Reagan democrat vote of Sanders. The so called Social conservative / economic progressive vote. Conservative Dems in this area distance themselves from LGBT community by either attacking gay rights or by upsetting the LGBT community to focus voters on social issues. Social conservative voters of both parties here in the rust belt are easily manipulated on gay issues. Hillary, after MI must divert attention away from economic issues toward a hot button social issue. This shit works in s. Indiana and probably Ohio and Ilinois, it has improved since 2012 but it is still slow going.
I moved in 1981
I moved in 1981
from G'ville FLA where my social circle was college town, artists and gays overblend, lots of people, (a very big 'circle') to Houston, what a different world. So most of the folks I knew and lost were from that Florida circle and I only heard about the ones who died from a distance. I pretty much lost touch over time as I migrated into my new digs socially. I was in my mid 20's at the time.
Years later, thanks to internet, I had some convo's here and there with some of those old friends. Heard more details and stories about some of the ones we lost. One guy, who had been a dear friend of mine from way back in high school, Gary, had moved to SF I think around the same time I had moved to TX. A mutual friend told me just a few years ago that Gary's large Irish Catholic family completely disowned him when he got ill & came out to them and that he opted to commit suicide rather than face the horrible, painful, and lonely imminent death he'd seen so many of his own friends endure.
When I discovered there was such a thing (again, not all that long ago) I searched for names of old friends on the NAMES Quilt to see if maybe they made it out alive. I was only mildly relieved when I did not find most of them listed there but I knew there were more like Gary who likely had no one survive them to make them a panel.
I am simply repulsed beyond belief at Hillary's words, and actions, yesterday.
Don't tell me she didn't know.
I was trying to resize then
I was trying to resize then include this photo but Im not having any luck with that (its HUGE)
http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2012/06/27/51587777-06217017be99903e2032...
If you can't work the resizing here,
you can resize in paint before you upload it here.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
tried all my tricks, oy.
tried all my tricks, oy.
shit Im so furious right now I can hardly see straight.
I really hope dallasdoc will compose a worthy diary for over there.
asshats.
GOS warning link
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2016/3/11/1499985/-Is-the-Front-Page-REA...
Lady Libertine Susan Grigsby Mar 12 · 08:18:06 AM
“What would be served by covering it on the front page? ”
Truth would be served.
Dignity would be served.
Honor the fallen and all the thousands of family & friends & survivors.
Honor the health workers and activists who stood up to the ignorance and hate that prevented responsible action and caused needless deaths of thousands upon thousands of people who never deserved to suffer and die.
We remember.
Its not so much about what we would have her do, we’re talking about what we would have DKos FP writers and staff do.
Silence = death.
Honor them.
Remember.
Respect.
Susan Grigsby's attitude
said a whole lot more about Daily Kos and the Democratic establishment than she ever intended I suspect. Her dismissiveness combined with a total lack of empathy are symptomatic of Team Clinton's failure to connect with the mood of the voters.
Original Comment
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
get help?
Susan is a big disappointment. Clinton lied, a complicated, elaborate lie. Normal people just do not do that.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
They all are...
BBB diary lauding the protestors because they are calling out racism is sort of funny. . Do you think he has a clue how many of those same protesters would protest Hillary for the same reasons.
dkos front pagers are dense or feathering their own nests.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
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