Is the duty to warn enough?

Duty to Warn: Psychiatrists and Mental Health Experts Assess the “Dangerous Case” of President Trump

National Coalition of Concerned Mental Health Experts

DR. BANDY LEE: So, our concerns are that someone with this level of mental instability and impairment has this much power, in the office of the presidency—basically, the power to start a devastating war, to launch nuclear missiles, without any inhibition. You saw from the hearings that there is very little inhibition in place right now. Within five minutes of the commander-in-chief’s orders, nuclear missiles could be launched without question. And—

AMY GOODMAN: And how does that relate to his mental fitness?

DR. BANDY LEE: And, of course, his decision-making capacity, having such levels of impulsivity, having a loose grip on reality and being so fragile in his ability to cope with ordinary stresses, such as basic criticisms or unflattering news, will tend to unravel, especially in times of heightened stress, such as under the special counsel’s investigations.

and this:

AMY GOODMAN: Let me ask you about this unusual article I just read that’s sort of going all over the internet, “Could Trump’s Hair Drug Threaten His Physical and Mental Health?” And it said—this is from months ago—”This week, President Trump’s doctor disclosed that the president takes finasteride, a drug marketed as Propecia, to treat male pattern baldness. While it is tempting to make jokes about Trump’s hair, and even the sexual side effects that accompany the drug, it also has many disturbing side effects that neither the president—nor any other man—should risk.

“In the 19 years since Propecia was approved to treat hair loss from male pattern baldness, side effects have been so concerning that the term post-finasteride syndrome (PFS) has been coined and hundreds of lawsuits have been brought. In addition to its sexual side effects, the drug’s effects on cognition, mood and mental states have been documented in the scientific literature.

“A 2013 study in Journal of Sexual Medicine noted 'changes related to the urogenital system in terms of semen quality and decreased ejaculate volume, reduction in penis size, penile curvature or reduced sensation, fewer spontaneous erections, decreased testicular size, testicular pain, and prostatitis.' [unquote] Many subjects also noted a 'disconnection between the mental and physical aspects of sexual function,' and changes in mental abilities, sleeping patterns, and/or depressive symptoms.”

Do you think this is relevant?

DR. BANDY LEE: Most definitely. Mental function is not separate from physical function, and many medications have profound effects on the mind’s capacity. And so, this is one of the reasons why an evaluation would be so critical, because mental impairment can be just as debilitating as physical impairment, and the both are connected. So, to have all the medical records, as well as to be able to get a list of medications and to do a medical exam, would be essential to doing a mental health exam.

Isn't there another duty too?

I can't embed the video.

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mimi's picture

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Granma's picture

Most men would opt for baldness and wear a hat.

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Pricknick's picture

@Granma

Most men would opt for baldness and wear a hat.

Only the vain need cover their baldness or take a drug to contain their embarrassment.
And combovers are just silly.

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Alligator Ed's picture

If you look at the list of side-effects of any drug, no one would take any. NSAIDS and acetaminophen kill > 10,000 people annually. In some cases NSAIDS cause mental side effects. How about alcohol? If HRC had been elected, would Amy Goodman been screaming about Medusa's alcoholic encephalopathy? Or her seizures?

I have published on this site several essays about HRC's health but I did place a disclaimer in them that caution should be entertained whenever attributing a medical diagnosis to anyone unless a personal evaluation by the physician is made.

Heresy Warning: Trump is impetuous but he keeps it under control, mainly erupting on things about which he wishes to rile up the MSM and the disloyal opposition. But Herr Drumpf is a lot smarter than most people, especially on the left (whatever that is), think he is.

Consider this:
1. The MSM has criticized him non-stop since he won the Republican nomination
2. Spending > $1.2 B to defeat him failed miserably
3. He got the abominable tax bill passed, a sign of political power
4. He is systematically eliminating the Obama-Clinton Dark State.

As the saying goes: "he's as crazy as a fox".

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
Trump has attacked the press 990 times on Twitter since announcing his candidacy for president. Here are the 4 ways he tries to intimidate and control the media:

I wonder if c99p is a so-called leftist site or a so-called rightist site. May be it's a so-called centrist site?

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janis b's picture

@mimi

"I am a chicken, so I don't like and don't admire foxes, YMMV"

Understandably, you find a microcosm here of so-called broad-spectrum sentiments, like you might in any group, even those with a certain bent.

[video:https://youtu.be/_PVjcIO4MT4]

And for the chicken in you ...

[video:https://youtu.be/6UV3kRV46Zs]

There isn't a reason that I can think of why Trump shouldn't be somewhere else.

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mimi's picture

@janis b
and I have my difficulties with the "broad spectrum", "all inclusive", "we love our freedoms" ... why not take a side and stand up for it, instead?

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janis b's picture

@mimi

"Why not take a stand", is a quintessentially German (as i understand in my limited experience) question.

[video:https://youtu.be/okaqXB6Ns5s]

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mimi's picture

@janis b
from Leonhard Cohen before. And you matched my feelings with that song so well, it scares me ...
Smile
Thank You, my friend. You really are.

I had to get the lyrics.

I’m traveling light
It’s au revoir
My once so bright
My fallen star
I’m running late
They’ll close the bar
I used to play
One mean guitar
I guess I’m just
Somebody who
Has given up
On the me and you
I’m not alone
I’ve met a few
Traveling light like
We used to do
Goodnight goodnight
My fallen star
I guess you’re right
You always are
I know you’re right
About the blues
You live some life
You’d never choose
I’m just a fool
A dreamer who
Forgot to dream
Of the me and you
I'm not alone
I’ve met a few
Traveling light like
We used to do
Traveling light
It’s au revoir
My once so bright
My fallen star
I’m running late
They’ll close the bar
I used to play
One mean…

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janis b's picture

@mimi

Would it help to tell you I am pounding roasted cumin (Kreuzkummell) at the moment? And I know how much you love Leonard Cohen.

I'm always happy to share something with you on the same plane.

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mimi's picture

@janis b
you never scare me, you amaze me ... Smile

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janis b's picture

@mimi

my bad ; ).

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mimi's picture

@janis b
yeah, I loved Leonhard Cohen's lyrics. Sigh, so many great musicians died through the last years...

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janis b's picture

@mimi

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mimi's picture

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exceed a 5% rate of undesirable side effects from finasteride, which in Trump's case could well be argued is a desirable side effect.

What we see here is another attempt to justify an extra constitutional removal from office of a sitting President. I am no fan of Trump, but as far as I know he did get more than the required 270 electoral votes and is the rightful office holder according to the Constitution.

Trump may be a monster, but he is our President. We the People, along with the help of our MSM, our dysfunctional two party system and a few billion corporate dollars put him in the Oval Office. There are Constitutional means to remove a President from office, but a trial in the court of public opinion on trumped up (sorry!) charges of being medically or psychologically unfit is not one of them.

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“What the herd hates most is the one who thinks differently; it is not so much the opinion itself, but the audacity of wanting to think for themselves, something that they do not know how to do.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

edg's picture

Dr. Bandy X. Lee has apparently not learned that remote diagnosis by Internet is frowned upon by psychiatric professionals. She should be ashamed of herself and Yale should take her to task. Throwing around glib diagnoses based on political prejudice without ever having met the subject or conducted an actual evaluation disqualifies her as a serious practitioner.

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snoopydawg's picture

@edg

Or Frist.. whatever his name was. The Dr-congress person who diagnosed Terry Schiavo, the brain dead woman over the internet. Remember that fiasco when Bush called congress back to overrule the courts?

The number of new drugs that make the market is criminal. Take the new drug for psoriasis. Sure it may make it feel better, but it could cause a heart attack too. Lots of drugs with this side effect.

I recently took one that caused me to bleed underneath my skin if I bumped my hand on anything. Looked up its side effects. "Warning: this drug may damage the liver. Ya think? How about the psychiatric drugs that causes suicidal ideation? Took one of them back in the 80's and started thinking of ways to kill my self. Fun times.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg
the VA wanted him to take. He tried it for a couple of weeks, ten years ago. It was awful. But it was awful too without the drugs. In that case the latter option taking no drugs is less damaging than the one taking some.

I am glad, snoopydawg, that you didn't give up way back in the eighties and are here to talk to us and offer so much in links, insights and analysis. Yesterday I unpacked a photo from you I once got from you. I get it framed and I enjoy looking at it from my bed. It's a fine memorabilia to have and remember you fondly. Be as well as you can.

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snoopydawg's picture

@mimi

Such a sweet thing to say. I too am glad that I stopped taking the drug. The experience was horrifying.

Which picture of mine did you get? I'm trying to create a new website so I can add some newer photos.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg
I am too tired now to search for the image in my files. It's five o'clock at night and my sleep pattern thoroughly messed up. I will get back to you.
Good Night

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Big Al's picture

I have unofficially diagnosed Trump to have the "totally whacked out" disease, a little known disease that usually afflicts only rich narcissistic sociopathic sort of billionaires who think playing golf is a job function and sending out tweets is comparable to writing well thought out policy papers.

Iow, I don't think it takes a psychiatrist or a doctor to realize that the dude is unfit for office. Those that can't figure that out are blinded by the light, revved up like a deuce, another runner in the night.

To the naysayers, come on, it's clear he should be nowhere near the white house let alone living in it.

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mimi's picture

@Big Al
that they are free of cost and offer the most therapeutic value for the money. Thanks Big Al. I got hooked again to talk here. Awful. Really sickening. Gotta go.

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janis b's picture

@Big Al

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mimi's picture

I support also that group for a long time. They are refreshingly sane in all this hoopla-messy world.

mimi

The President of the United States is an unstable man. He is not well.

Earlier tonight, Trump tweeted that his nuclear button was "much bigger & more powerful" than Kim Jong Un's. Sixteen minutes later, he tweeted about announcing winners in a "corrupt media" award show next Monday.

Look, It's past time Congress stop this madness. It's long past time Twitter takes responsibility and stops his dangerous threats.

But the truth is, it is unlikely either will. That job is up to us. And that means fighting this unstable, unfit, unwell president every day, every time he puts our nation at risk. But we can't do it alone.

Chip in .... to help us elevate the voices of veterans willing to stand up to Trump, and to encourage Congress to keep our nation safe from Donald Trump.

There are a lot of people making jokes about this on the internet right now, but it's no laughing matter. It's up to all of us to act.

All my best,

Jon Soltz
Iraq War Veteran and Chairman
VoteVets

I can't understand why so many go on and on about past Presidents and past wanna-be Presidents complaining how they were so very bad, no, badder even, and so much more dangerous, most deceivingly dangerous, and why they are boiling over and bubbling up all the time about them, THEM, who have NO power anymore, but the current President in power, oh no, he gets a pass. Great.

I mean, tell me why.

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Big Al's picture

@mimi the democratic party, but I agree, and I'm a vet as well. Of course it won't solve the bigger problem which is our government being controlled by an oligarchy/plutocracy, but his big mouth has gone well too far and there is no end in sight. This vet supports this effort. He is unfit for office and should be removed. Just because Pence would be next does not mean that action should not be taken, he is what he is. Clinton may have brought us to the same point relative to world affairs but she's not in that chair, he is. He is committing war crimes when he says things like he does, threats of aggressive war are against the UN Charter and the use of nuclear weapons is and always will be illegal and immoral.

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mimi's picture

@Big Al
the lyrics of the song by Leonhard Cohen janis b has just posted for me. It says among others..

...
I guess I’m just
Somebody who
Has given up
On the me and you
I’m not alone
I’ve met a few
Traveling light like
We used to do
Goodnight goodnight

I have given up. I rather take something than nothing. At least the VoteVets - as you say - try something, which is better than nothing. Trying to make the best out of what is out there. That's all.

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snoopydawg's picture

@mimi

$$Chip$$ in .... to help us elevate the voices of veterans willing to stand up to Trump, and to encourage Congress to keep our nation safe from Donald Trump.

How much money for how many veterans standing up to Trump will it take to get him out of office? How much to get congress to do it instead? Every one of them can already see that he's a danger to the country and the world, yet the republicans won't do anything until they get everything they want and even if they do something, we're stuck with Pence. Most of the things Trump is doing is the republicans wet dreams. Rolling back every regulation that protects us has been dreamed of since they were put in place.

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

mimi's picture

@snoopydawg
little girl dream that ... may be ... may be ... some of the Vets will do the right thing one day. There have always been a couple in our history, who tried to do the right thing. There is a tiny possibility that some of them are in there today, who take their calling and mission seriously too. That's why.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi Just remember that before you try screaming anti-Trumpism in front of our Amerikkkan Stasi. Besides, I come (here) to bury Trump, not to praise him--but ya gotta know your enemy.

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
I hear you.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi Did I ever tell you, I love lamb?

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
alligator love.

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mimi's picture

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mimi's picture

@Alligator Ed
don't know what I meant by it. Please forget it. I can't cope with all of it.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@mimi

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

@mimi

Seriously, thanks for posting a link to the VoteVets website, especially to their propaganda videos.

I'll post a blurb about their misleading claims at EB, when we get back.

From where I stand, VoteVets are almost 4 years too late to complain about the 'privatization' of the Veterans Administration (VA), since it began with the signing of the 2014 Veterans Choice Act--the informal name of the bill.

This is the primary reason that Mr M doesn't belong to, or support any of the veterans organizations, even though he's a Category 3 vet. They're either willfully ignorant of, or genuinely misinformed about veterans legislation.

Of course, most of the vet organizations are openly partisan--either progressive, or conservative. And, we are 'Independents.'

Regarding VoteVets--it's 'progressive.' See below.

VoteVets.org

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although a nonpartisan organization, it has been described as "closely aligned with Congressional Democrats," and "liberal" in news stories.[8][9][10]

In a June 2011 press release, the organization specifically identified itself as the "largest progressive group of veterans in America."[11]

Anyhoo, (IMO) it's generally a safer bet to get the facts directly from the actual legislation.

Have a good one!

Mollie


"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."--Lao Tzu


"Purity test"??
I've come to flag that phrase, like many others, as a tool of neoliberalism in order to shut down intelligent conversation. When someone disagrees with you, their issues are not lesser than yours. The lines that they draw are not inferior to yours. They are not being "pure" when they honor those lines. Rather, they are acting with principle.
--SnappleBC

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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

mimi's picture

@Unabashed Liberal @Unabashed Liberal
I have left the place where it matters behind and don't want to look back. I want to forget the past.
(edited)

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riverlover's picture

@mimi How many families around the world can say the same thing about the always-hungry US PTB? How can they not hate us as individuals? A better sense of scale and power than the average American who has never gone to a foreign country can ever acquire?

HNY, BTW, mimi!

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

mimi's picture

@riverlover
I was in a very bad state of mind, when I said it, and don't want it to stay. Your comment is therefore not anymore coherent. I know that JtC doesn't like it if folks redact part of their comments, but I think it was ok to do in this case.

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mimi's picture

@Unabashed Liberal
and am amazed how little I understood way back about General Clark. Ok, it's history now. I definitely didn't understand the nineties and very little about the Democrats in the first decade of the 21rst century. History, don't want to look back.

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Bollox Ref's picture

But trying to remove him via the 25th Amendment would tear America apart.

One man's incapacity is another man's genius.

(Edited)

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

mimi's picture

@Bollox Ref

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Bollox Ref's picture

@mimi

is removed from office for 'reasons', as opposed to bona fide, settled, mental health issues.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Big Al's picture

@Bollox Ref supporting him are going to have to be put in their places. They are a right wing minority trying to take this country down a bad road. I wouldn't be afraid of this fight. What I'm more afraid of is the democratic party somehow benefiting from it which would only perpetuate the status quo, minus Trump.

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mimi's picture

Merkel a pass. I defended her. I don't anymore. But I had to be in Germany and read and listen to the German media to understand why. Just an update.

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Big Al's picture

@mimi She's definitely one of them.

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hecate's picture

in March of 2005, Bill Frist, a US senator, and also a doctor, walked out onto the Senate floor, and there soberly intoned that he had looked into a tube, and thereby concluded that the brainless Terri Schiavo would soon leap out of bed, to laugh and dance and play, and even learn the cello, everyone laughed and called him names. The term "fristing" entered the language, to denote boobs who looked into tubes and there divined serious medical terri1.jpgconditions, or lack thereof.

Thirteen years on, fristing is just another part of the politics.

Here in the Hairball-Free Zone of California, psychotherapists are not supposed to divulge to anyone any patient particulars unless the person basically flourishes an ax and says he is leaving the office now to bury it in the head of the guy selling flowers down in the lobby—and you believe him.

There is, however, the "grocery store exception," whereby if the patient is encountered somewhere outside the therapy session, like, say, in the Bezos Whole Foods, and there commences unsane babble, that is not covered by the psychotherapist/patient privilege, and so the brain-worker can basically repeat it to anyone, if s/he wants.

I guess all these fristians hand-wringing about The Hairball are proceeding pursuant to the "grocery store exception." When The Hairball chunders onto a television or a twitler, that is like being harangued by him on the street. So anyone can say anything about it to anyone at all.

These brain-people, also, are not—any of them—actually treating The Hairball. Which has to make their patients, stuck paying the insane rates, wonder why they should have to continue to come in and lay on the couch, and pay all the money, when, with The Hairball, their doctor can just look at a tube, and then pronounce the guy fifteen kinds of Danger crazy.

Fristing predates the tubes, of course, but traditionally, among the Americans, it was primarily a domain of the reporters. On December 11, 1861, for instance, the Cincinnati Commercial led with the headline GENERAL SHERMAN INSANE.

The reporters did not like Sherman. Because Sherman wanted to shoot the reporters. But Grant never let him. Grant was a party-pooper.

The Hairball, he also would like to shoot the reporters. And there is no Grant to stop him. But, The Hairball hasn't shot any reporters. Yet. Still, his reign is young.

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riverlover's picture

@hecate I am but one of millions here with not enough $$$ to yield as a power-equivalent. And I own no weapons unless bb's count, without a bb gun. Toss a pint of those on a hard floor and watch the fun! For size variation, I have SS pachinko balls. Wink

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

WaterLily's picture

@hecate Brilliant!

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hecate's picture

@WaterLily
he smokes the meth and makes the twitlers. "And the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together."

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mimi's picture

but in order for me to not become a grocery store exception, I have to shoot down now my internet connection. It's just not working to keep your mental health in balance to communicate anonymously online. I drives people insane. I don't want to be one of them.

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hecate's picture

@mimi
were invented by insane people as a means by which they could continue to communicate with one another after they had crisped the globe with nuclear fire. So there is a lot of bad juju in them. That is nowhere near all flushed out.

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@hecate what did they hire him for anyway? Oh, I forget. Was it mittens or mccain...

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hecate's picture

@QMS
was a random geek who harangued Obama on the street as a Bolshevik who was trying to redistribute the money to the Mexicans and the Muslims. The McCain brain trust picked him up and placed him at the center of their campaign, over its last couple weeks, as a totem representing the "typical American": that is, a dumb-as-dirt white man. He later went on to drive a jeep, and opine that if only the Jews had owned guns, they could have shot holes in the gas chambers. He is a fan of The Hairball, as he likes The Hairball's "beautiful women." He is impatient for The Hairball to build the wall; after that, Joe says, the Americans can "go into Mexico and start shooting."

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Blah blah blah, stuck in a projection loop I am, dissatisfied with lack of opportunity amidst the eXtreme greed in California.

That whole group of "concerned" professionals, and that juvenile attention seeker who had someone else deliver a box of shit somewhere for fifteen minutes of media fame - financial penalties and prison time is what they should get I think. Instead, the opposite occurs. ~shrug~ Social media is a disease, please proceed.

I'd like to see the entire industry of P$ychiatry banned from the face of the earth universe, but that's just me. No one in their "right mind" would seek help from a profession that advises to torture, Bush doctrine forever tainted that group. For profit! I guess billable rates for psychological torture buys someone a nice house and retirement these days.

Who else do they sell their evil to, hm? Amazon-WFM-WaPo-CIA? Facebook? Google? Alphabet? Microsoft? LMAO what fell out of the lint trap to answer ... You betcha! I'll not forget the D-Crickets reply when sounding alarm years ago - number one fastest job growth estimates at the BLS during Bloody Obama were for Industrial Psychologists. The Un-employers. I think it's not the robots, not the machines, it's the fucking professionals who "advise" Human Resources that are ruining everything. Since microsoft bought linkedin it's all automated now, patented shitty programming brought to you by crappy psychologists. Systemic torture for the win.

Same exact template applied to politics, mind fuck the masses. Why not get them to work FOR you while you steal their last penny? Unity!

Nobody 2018
good luck

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