How much longer, this Forever War?
Putin traveled to Syria the other day, and announced the beginning of withdraw of Russian forces after just two years.
Just days before, the Pentagon announced no withdraw from Syria, eventhough we aren't welcome and it's an illegal war.
Pahon says US troops are going to stay to “support our partners and prevent the return of terrorist groups,” both goals which, one must note, are absolutely open-ended, and unlikely to ever be declared “accomplished.”
Though the Pentagon had long been very public about the fact that their deployment to Iraq was a permanent one, the war in Syria is different, in no small part because the Syrian government never authorized US troops to deploy there, and isn’t supporting the idea of them staying.
That got me thinking about Joe Haldeman's novel The Forever War, and how long our war will be.
“You couldn’t blame it all on the military, though. The evidence they presented for the Taurans’ having been responsible for the earlier casualties was laughably thin. The few people who pointed this out were ignored. The fact was, Earth’s economy needed a war, and this one was ideal. It gave a nice hole to throw buckets of money into, but would unify humanity rather than dividing it.”
― Joe Haldeman, The Forever War
We've essentially been at war in/with Iraq for 27 years now. People forget that we bombed Iraq on a weekly basis during the gap between 1991 and 2003.
U.S. soldiers currently serving in Iraq weren't even born when our longest current war started. There is no end in sight for this war.
“The most important fact about the war to most people was that if it ended suddenly, Earth’s economy would collapse.”
― Joe Haldeman, The Forever War
We've been at war in/with Afghanistan for 16 years, and this war is looking even more bleak.
After 16 years of U.S. presence in Kabul, it is an acknowledgment that even the city’s central districts have become too difficult to defend from Taliban bombings.
The capital project is also clearly taking place to protect another long-term U.S. investment: Along with an increase in troops to a reported 15,000, from around 11,000 at the moment, the Trump administration’s new strategy for Afghanistan is likely to keep the military in place well into the 2020s, even by the most conservative estimates.
Unless someone in Washington is capable of admitting defeat, or if a peace movement can spring out of nothing, another decade of war in Afghanistan is certain. Especially since we are training our future enemies.
Our current Afghani soldiers were in diapers on 9/11.
And then there is the wars that we don't even acknowledge, like the one in Somalia.
In a sign that the Defense Department does not envision a quick end to the deepening war in Somalia against the Shabab and the Islamic State, the proposed plan is said to include an exemption to a rule in Mr. Trump’s guidelines requiring annual vetting by staff from other agencies — including diplomats and intelligence officials — of operational plans for certain countries.
Instead, the Pentagon wants to wait 24 months before reviewing how the Somalia plan is working, according to the officials, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss sensitive matters.
So while Russia declares war, fights the war, and wins the war, inside of two years, the Pentagon will take two years to just decide whether we are winning or losing in an undeclared war.
“Reality becomes illusory and observer-oriented when you study general relativity. Or Buddhism. Or get drafted.”
― Joe Haldeman, The Forever War
We spend $250 million a day for the last 16 years to fight this pointless war.
It appears that it will only end when we are broke.
Comments
Even The Hundred Years' War
had several breaks of years when nothing much happened.
This one just seems continuously awful. Perhaps we need the rising power of the Commons to question the whole thing/spending.
Oh, wait...
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
@Bollox Ref You mean like this?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well, that was a reference
To the House of Commons in the late 14th and early 15th centuries. Unfortunately, the House of Representatives in the 21st C. appears to not give a shit, despite continual death, monies wasted.
Welcome to the 13th C.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
@Bollox Ref Oh, the House of
Sorry, we don't have that in stock anymore.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Bollox Ref I feel that rather than
Although I think we get a lot more out of movements like that than we do out of the duopoly parties, obviously, the truth is that both strategies have a similar problem. Every time we're hoping they won't be such shits this time.
We need more than that, or few will ever come out--unless it's for an astroturf pussy hat march.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I was referring
to a medieval institution that resented taxation for a seemingly pointless, dynastic war. Under Henry IV and Henry V, especially, the government had to negotiate/compromise regularly with Parliament for extra income.
Seemingly, the modern day House of Representatives just rolls over for a tummy scratching.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
@Bollox Ref Yep, got it now.
It's funny that it didn't even cross my mind to associate the word "commons" with any legislative institution, even though I know the British lower house is called the House of Commons. Sign of the times, I guess--an American who no longer believes in any relationship between politicians and the commons in any sense.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Peace movements have already sprung out of nothing.
I admit there were people who decided peace didn't actually matter that much to them when it was Barack Obama prosecuting the wars, and it became less acceptable to support or promote peace at that point, because you were liable to be accused of racism if you did, but that doesn't mean there haven't been large and strong peace movements against this particular war cluster. The one in 2002-3 being the largest.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Well, unless you count
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
As a participant in Occupy,
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Informative answers, gj, to the question How long has this been
going on?
/The peace movement never really died after Vietnam just it just shriveled, waxed and waned.
Here’s the latest idea, a place to start...
..
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Good points on these
long-running wars. We need to start some entirely fresh wars before people figure out the current ones are strangling the safety net, maintenance and development at home, encouraging racism and fascism at home and making politicians rich. Not that there seems to be any danger of Democratic voters noticing any of that but still better to have fresher wars. Contingency planning.
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
@jim p We are in a post-policy
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
There is a nasty rumor going around some of the, ah, less
respectable corners of the internet that Mr. Netanyahoo says or thinks or brags that he can activate enough bribed or intimidated or deluded or blackmailed members of Congress to declare war on Iran. Whether their constituents like it or not.
So, maybe, it this rumor should prove to be true, God help us, maybe all the alternative parties should get together and put out a petition to be printed in newspapers all across the country, from Pravda on the Hudson on down to the Shady Grove weekly shopping guide that the undersigned commit to circulating recall petitions for each member who votes for such an atrocity. No wait till the next election, Retribution Now!
Mary Bennett
that's what happens - Putin said Russia won the war
in Syria and therefore can go home. Russians on the street said Putin made Russia great again and seem content. That's the Russians' way of 'playing Trump'. Apparently Russians are more successful in this "making things great again" competition.
Oh, the wars will go on for ever, sometimes they take a nap, then someone says something and it all bubbles up again.
Divesting and boycotting the war machine is needed. It looks that nobody really wants to do that, the money to make with weapons and wars is just too seductive.
Nice article. Thanks.
https://www.euronews.com/
Perhaps Putin is going to just
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Not to put you on the spot mimi.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I don't understand your question
I repeated basically what the ARD German TV correspondent in Moscow was saying in our evening news. I happen to know him and trust his reports. Of course he wasn't that sarcastic as I intended my comment to sound (making Russia "great again" like Trump was meant as snark). I think the war in Syria is too expensive for Russia. I have no idea if Putin gets a kick out of watching the US digging themselves in a hole in Syria. It's not Putin's fault that the US is not withdrawing their troops. Their own fault. And btw I have no clue. The experts are here, it's better you ask them.
https://www.euronews.com/
@mimi Russia is better at it-
The United States is not a nation, but a collection of multinational economic interests with an army. I don't exactly know how to place the secret police in this formulation--they are part of, but not identical with, the military. Kind of like a triangle, with big money, traditional military, and secret police as the three points. Think of us as the place where more than half the global elites keep their guns.
It's difficult to "Make the Arsenal Great Again." Unless you're talking about this:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And let's just ponder that for a moment
The United States military... the largest and most well-funded military in the world... by far... has been fighting unsuccessfully for 27 years against Iraq.
That's what I'm supposed to believe?
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
We're really good at spending money,
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Is this a joke?
Didn't we make sure that they had all the support that they needed when we used them to help us overthrow Assad? And where will the 3,500 ISIS troops that we allowed to leave Syria be to sent next?
$250 million per day x 365 days x 16 years = How Much? No wonder we're too broke to fund CHIP.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
I didn't forget. I was saying exactly this, just yesterday:
But then, I was there in '91 (and '90, and '92).
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I have to admit I'm concerned about this--
because even though Assad is a right bastard, I'd really prefer he stay in power rather than create another power vacuum like the one in Iraq--a howling vortex of anti-civilization, a generator of ever-more venomous bastards.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
or Lybia
...Obomber's and the $hill's mess. I hope the empire collapses before we start a war with Iran...which is obviously T-rump's (and Nitwityahoo's) goal.
Before you laugh...if China and Russia united on a gold based currency, the US would fall without a shot as our currency became as worthless as it really is.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
@Lookout It wasn't Trump's goal
Now it's his goal because nobody in a highly visible position in the U.S. is allowed to dissent for long, unless it's controlled opposition.
It's really the PNAC crazies' goal, always has been.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver