Leaving? Over a different point of View? Really?!?

I noticed JtC’s comment on a certain subject about folks packing up and checking out of this site over contentiousness in discussions.
Huh? I actually believed this site was For Those With Opposing Views.
If you’re gonna get Huffy ‘cause someone disagrees with you, Maybe you.should rethink your claims of Not being a Snowflake and what you really expect out of this Site.
A funhouse Reflection of Reality?
An Echo chamber?
Daily Kult?
Don’t get me wrong, I’d much prefer people take time off than people throwing flags(of Whatever sort) and/or cussing each other.
But this is lame.
We All have a backstory no one here is aware of.
We All have our ‘triggers’.
And yet, people just gotta be Pissy about shit. Damn! And take it personally?!?
It’s the Internet, Moranz! Taking this shit personally is like taking CB radio talk personally., you Choose to be offended at your Peril!
Now, I would bold, and underline, Choose, but I ain’t got the energy.

Someone keeps posting ‘we all suck’ for not doing more to stop the war-and I agree-we Do suck.
Others post denigrating comments about Bernie-I disagree.
Some post in favor of the Gov’t explanation on 911-I disagree.
Some post for/against dRumph, the Shadow Gov’t, Deep State, what have you.
The point being(finally! He comes to the Point!), I guess, that we All have something to share, to teach, to persuade, to enlighten with others And Ourselves
You want to take your marbles and go home? Okay.
The World just got a little dimmer. Thanks.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

Edit; Have whatever kind of day you desire.

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47 users have voted.

Comments

Big Al's picture

Just when you think you know everything, you realize you don't know didly. One good thing about human life is every day is a new day and an opportunity to get it right.

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30 users have voted.

@Big Al every day if you start out Dumb enough, and we All start out that way.
When I disagree with someone, I Try not to do so Blindly.
Am I always successful? No.
The same in agreeing with someone.
My problem(What? Only one?) is that the Staple set of Writers on this site give me so much more to think about and have linked to so many Other sites for additional information that often times it’s a little overwhelming to keep up.
Simply put, a broader perspective helps, and shutting down doesn’t.
YMMV.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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18 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

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19 users have voted.

of an open community. Noses get bloodied, but that that needs aired out gets a good going over.

It would be easier on the management to control the narrative, but frankly, that ain't us. There are tons of sites that will offer you a one-sided prospectus, they're easy to find. Sites that let you speak your mind are rare, and growing rarer by the day.

My decision to not front page any more essays about the discussion that is the object of this essay is in attempt to be fair to both sides of the issue. I do not want to show bias one way or the other. Noses can continue to be bloodied on the Community Content page.

C99p will survive and be stronger for it.

Thanks TB&U

PS: Oh yeah, and "stop the fucking wars", right on, brother.

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29 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@JtC
This place is the LEAST confrontational and best moderated site that I’ve ever posted on.

And I post on a couple doozies. On one i’ve eve been called a ‘fucking bitch’ for laughing at something stupid Trump said. (NOTE: I never alert or ask anyone to be censored. I just laugh and know I’ve won the argument.)

This is what all this snowflake-itis boils down to:

This mum wants Sleeping Beauty removed from her child’s curriculum
Has the sexual harassment controversy hit children's books?

Lhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcthree/item/348b95fd-81d6-46d4-827e-73c727b8ceb6

I am so done with this #metoo shit. It’s becoming a bad joke.

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5 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

zoebear's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Academic conversation of themes, how about the theme of a snowflake pure woman (princesses are always virginal, aren't they?) who can only be brought "to life" by a kiss from a man. Pretty empowering stuff, eh girls? Sure, it's a children's story, but so was Hansel and Gretel, and that's not exactly a bedtime story of "positive" parenting I'd personally read to my kids. Do I think it should be "banned" from schools. Nope. Banning books has a long history of misguided intentions. But, yeah, I think any story can be an opportunity to discuss different themes with your children.

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6 users have voted.
dervish's picture

@zoebear

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3 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

zoebear's picture

@dervish

That's a treasure trove of themes worthy of discussion.

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2 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@zoebear

which story was most memorably rendered in Chaucer's Wife of Bath's Tale and in the ballad "King Henry" (which is much cruder).

Curiously, it is never mentioned which "King Henry" encountered the ogress, broke her spell, and made her his wife - it may be yet another spin on the bizarre love-hate story of Henry II and Eleanor of Aquitaine. Certainly Eleanor was a target for all manner of scurrilous stories during her lifetime, and more so after.

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5 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

zoebear's picture

@TheOtherMaven

As well as Shakespeare read better if you imagined it as a play in your head. In which case it would be interesting to see these verses played out. Interesting role reversal.

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4 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear
I have to laugh though.

“Do you want a bedtime story?”

“Yes Mommy/Daddy!”

“How about Sleeping Beauty?”

“Yes! I want to hear how the prince saves her by waking her up with a kiss.”

“Well child, that’s the old version. In this one he’s a sex criminal who kisses comatose women without their permission. The politically correct thing to do would be to let her lie there in that coma forever.”

“Oh. Let’s skip the story for tonight, okay?”

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5 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

zoebear's picture

@Amanda Matthews

Sleeping Beauty to your children that way....

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3 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@zoebear

for popularizing a scant handful of fairy tales, and most of them from the same mold (they've tried to vary the formula in recent years).

A wider acquaintance with the genre will yield stories in which the cleverness of women/a woman is featured, in which the woman takes the active part in finding and rescuing her true love, and even a few in which the woman fully takes on a man's role and does it better. (The NON-Disney versions of the Mulan story may fall under that last heading!)

One very large collection of tales from all over is Andrew Lang's "Rainbow" Fairy Books, so called because each one is assigned a particular color (Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Olive, Pink, etc).

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6 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

zoebear's picture

@TheOtherMaven

One very large collection of tales from all over is Andrew Lang's "Rainbow" Fairy Books, so called because each one is assigned a particular color (Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Olive, Pink, etc).

I collect children's books, and I'm especially interested in folk tales and fables.

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3 users have voted.

@TheOtherMaven

the cultural perception of women has changed a lot since then.

50's tv shows!

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2 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear

What Fueled the Child Sex Abuse Scandal That Never Was?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/what-fueled-the-child-sex-abuse-scandal-th...

I’d really like to see some of the ‘evidence’ you spoke about that would prove that the McMartin case wasn’t a fraud. Because NONE was found forensically and there were NO witnesses, and their ‘experts’ who got the tales from the kids were mostly frauds who all had their own agenda. And they slid back into obscurity right after the trials. Which was a fate too kind for them.

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3 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

zoebear's picture

@Amanda Matthews

The work that was done with the children in the McMartin case in the comments section of 'CounterPunch essay. Some of the references were academic papers written on the subject and others were from professionals in the psychiatric field. Feel free to cross reference them. I will also be doing the same, as I feel I would like to write about this more authoritatively in the future.

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3 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear @zoebear
‘Evidence’, not stuff from CT websites.

Yes by all means write about it. I’m anxious to reading all about how you can prove something that the prosecutors even admitted was BS.

You didn’t even read the article I posted. Tsk tsk. You might have learned how flimsy (fake) those outlandish claims of abuse were. And still are, since the truth came OUT AT ALL THE TRIALS.

EDIT: fixed last sentence.

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3 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

zoebear's picture

@Amanda Matthews

A good faith discussion with you, i would be more than amenable to doing my best to provide you with other links. But given your combative nature, I feel you are looking more to score points in an online game of "Gotcha!" so instead I'll give you the Pyrrhic victory by forfeiture.

Amanda Matthews: 1
Zoebear: 0

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3 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@zoebear
difference of opinion in this whole thread. And you took a perfectly innocent, straight-forward fairy tale and found a way to twist and bend it until it also became something ugly. The topper? You threw in a bunch of people who had been on trial for seven damned years (The McMartins) and found INNOCENT and you made the claim they were guilty and you had ‘evidence’.you didn’t provide any evidence or proof of guilt though. These people’s lives were ruined. Every aspect of their past and present was raked over in public. The social workers hurling bullshit charges, the prosecutors, the police, the public, these people were hounded by them all . And hounded and abused as damn hard as possible. This is what you are trying to say happened:

The Initial Complaint

In 1983, Judy Johnson, mother of one of the Manhattan Beach, California, preschool's young students, reported to the police that her son had been sodomized by her estranged husband and by McMartin teacher Ray Buckey.[2][3] Ray Buckey was the grandson of school founder Virginia McMartin and son of administrator Peggy McMartin Buckey. Johnson's belief that her son had been abused began when her son had painful bowel movements. What happened next is still disputed. Some sources state that at that time, Johnson's son denied her suggestion that his preschool teachers had molested him, whereas others say he confirmed the abuse.[2][4]

In addition, Johnson also made several more accusations, including that people at the daycare had sexual encounters with animals, that "Peggy drilled a child under the arms" and "Ray flew in the air."[1][5] Ray Buckey was questioned, but was not prosecuted due to lack of evidence. The police then sent a form letter to about 200 parents of students at the McMartin school, stating that their children might have been abused, and asking the parents to question their children. The text of the letter read:[2]

*

Bizarre allegations

Some of the accusations were described as "bizarre",[5] overlapping with accusations that mirrored the just-starting satanic ritual abuse panic.[4] It was alleged that, in addition to having been sexually abused, they saw witches fly, traveled in a hot-air balloon, and were taken through underground tunnels.[4] When shown a series of photographs by Danny Davis (the McMartins' lawyer), one child identified actor Chuck Norris as one of the abusers.[20]

Some of the abuse was alleged to have occurred in secret tunnels beneath the school. Several excavations turned up evidence of old buildings on the site and other debris from before the school was built, but no evidence of any secret chambers or tunnels was found.[4] There were claims of orgies at car washes and airports, and of children being flushed down toilets to secret rooms where they would be abused, then cleaned up and presented back to their parents. Some interviewed children talked of a game called "naked movie star" suggesting they were forcibly photographed nude.[1][4][21] During the trial, testimony from the children stated that the naked movie star game was actually a rhyming taunt used to tease other children – "What you say is what you are, you're a naked movie star," – and had nothing to do with having naked pictures taken.[4]

Johnson, who made the initial allegations, made bizarre and impossible statements about Raymond Buckey, including that he could fly.[1] Though the prosecution asserted Johnson's mental illness was caused by the events of the trial, Johnson had admitted to them that she was mentally ill beforehand. Evidence of Johnson's mental illness was withheld from the defense for three years and, when provided, was in the form of sanitized reports that excluded Johnson's statements, at the order of the prosecution.[22] One of the original prosecutors, Glenn Stevens, left the case and stated that other prosecutors had withheld evidence from the defense, including the information that Johnson's son did not actually identify Ray Buckey in a series of photographs. Stevens also accused Robert Philibosian, the deputy district attorney on the case, of lying and withholding evidence from the court and defense lawyers in order to keep the Buckeys in jail and prevent access to exonerating evidence.[23]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/McMartin_preschool_trial

Batshit crazy doesn’t eve begin to describe those claims. I used wikibecause i’m lazy tonight. . So TRUST ME, I am really interested in seeing your ‘evidence’.

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3 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@zoebear I agree with your decision not to engage this person. The level of hostility in the tone and unnatural stridence to not look at evidence contrary to his/her position is odd. I particularly dislike attempts to smear contrary evidence as "CT," a term promoted by the establishment to disparage anyone who questioned the official story of JFK's demise. As if any remotely establishment source would ever publish anything seriously damaging to the establishment . . . .

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@Bring Back Civics

If you want to discuss a different subject than the thread is about, it is just plain courtesy to post your own essay. (Open Threads excepted - which this one was NOT.)

This is also the second thread that has been derailed in this way. The person (or people) who feel that strongly about it really ought to write up their own essay so they can get it all off their chest.

As to the rest of us, we can choose to participate...or not. It's that "free will" thing, ya know?

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0 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

dervish's picture

the degree to which this generation will self-segregate. It used to be that people across the ideological spectrum had to learn ways to tolerate and deal with each other, and differing points of view, now it seems that if someone experiences disagreement in even the smallest, most hair-splitting way, some will simply take their ball and go home.

The internet has thousands of little echo chambers where everyone agrees about everything, what it needs is more town squares, where all positions can be heard.

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32 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

@dervish we Are an echo chamber of sorts, we Do suffer from groupthink at times and invariably Someone chucks the wrench and screeeech. . . the dialogue changes for ‘the Real’ to me. It’s difficult to describe.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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9 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

dervish's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly we don't force the issue, but we're more or less an ideologically pure safe space like all the rest. I wish American people in general had to engage more with those who don't agree with them already.

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5 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

dkmich's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly
To speak and share opinions that go against the flow no matter how unpopular they may be. We cannot allow ourselves to be intimidated by the majority.

As you said, we each have our stories and our triggers. IMO, mine belong to me and are mine alone to manage. Crushing and snowflake are on the same continuum. When I need protection, I do not want to depend on the sensitivity of others for it. I want to be the one who protects me.

I left DailyKos because it demanded fealty to a set of tenets that I didn’t always share. Voicing anything that strayed from the party line was not allowed and punished. If we can’t speak in opposition to popular/accepted beliefs at c99 either because we might offend someone who will leave or fear getting personally attacked, then quite frankly, I don’t want to be here either.

As JtC pointed out, freedom of thought is what c99 is suppose to be all about.

Thanks TBU for giving this issue a thorough airing.

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11 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

@dervish
in which everyone agrees with each other get boring?

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10 users have voted.
dervish's picture

@gjohnsit so I'm in a variety of internet venues, some of which don't reflect my actual views. I still don't know of a place though that mimics real life, in which we have to deal with the general public as it actually is.

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9 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

earthling1's picture

and right on the mark.
You have to accept the trash talk to find out where Smokey hides.
Thanks TBU.

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19 users have voted.

@earthling1 I’m thankful for is that THAT is absent to a Very large extant on this Site.
I don’t post as often, and haven’t for awhile because while I had something to say, at Best it would have been impolite. Let’s not think about at worst, shall we?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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10 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

SnappleBC's picture

Every person gets to choose what sort of community they find reasonable and amenable. I got accused of being a DKOS plant and left the site for a while as well as stopping my subscription. My reasons for that are my own and were you to belittle that which you didn't understand you'd be EXACTLY like the crowd over on DKOS.

To this case, if someone feels that the fight against rape culture is an important one and this site isn't on board then they really might want to spend their time elsewhere where their primary focus and those of the rest of the community are better aligned. If you wanted to more profitably investigate that you'd be asking that question, "Why on earth would you think the preponderance of this site isn't on board?"

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12 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

riverlover's picture

@SnappleBC I mean disapproval of such.Do you see it differently? I know it's crazyworld and crazytimes for many, including me, but I still consider c99 a sane place.

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20 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

SnappleBC's picture

@riverlover

But if someone else does not and they choose not to inquire further to get clarification but rather go somewhere else, then I assume they have made an adult and informed decision based on their needs and worldview. Obviously, at least some folks feel the site is not particularly supportive of feminism. Were that not true, then JtC wouldn't be talking about "losing people over this issue".

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7 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@SnappleBC
Apologies for the ‘condescending tone’? I highlight the language that was used and you take that for condescension, okay. I try to leave something for the readers to do.
THAT was condescension. /s
Look, I wasn’t trying to restart the argument, I was (selfishly) pointing out that when people shut down from each other Nothing Gets Done.
No dialogue.
No debate.
No discussion.
No learning.
No exchange
Shit just stops. How is that helpful? How Can it be?
I tried to use humour, a gentle jab to keep dialogue flowing and you extrapolate from that that I’m okay with ‘rape culture’?
We all have our triggers, I said. That was Not to belittle Any of them.
From Anybody.
Robin stopped posting here regularly and the place got dimmer. Others have joined in and the place has brightened up again, but the Quality of the light changed. Does that make any sense?
Not really sure What I’m trying say except don’t go? Like it or not, we Do need Everyone.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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22 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

SnappleBC's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

And perhaps you just "triggered" me after my experience on DKOS. Your comments were very similar to the "purity pony" mindset. The long-form "purity pony argument" goes like this.

"You're issues are not important in my eyes and so I will minimize the issues and then insult you for making big decisions over 'small' things."

Me? I would prefer to find out why we are driving some folks away with this line of discussion since I strongly suspect the vast majority of people on this site are pretty pro-feminist. How on earth could you claim to be "for the people" and leave out half the people? Sure, I know it's been done in the past but it seems unlikely now and here, on this site.

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10 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

divineorder's picture

@SnappleBC

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11 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

@SnappleBC my intent.
See my comment below.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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6 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

SnappleBC's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

Well, obviously DivineOrder didn't read it that way so let's just chalk it up to communication error somewhere between sender and receiver Smile

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5 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

dkmich's picture

@SnappleBC

In fact, I thought he was quite warm and sensitive in his framing.

I do not know of one person here who supports rape, pedophilia, or even drunken, lewd, locker room behaviors even in locker rooms.

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16 users have voted.

*donate *follow us on Twitter *like us on Facebook *dump Google

thanatokephaloides's picture

You want to take your marbles and go home? Okay.
The World just got a little dimmer. Thanks.

No, our c99 world got brighter, while the pissy who took his marbles and stalked off is wallowing in darkness.

The rest of us are going nowhere, bumps, grinds, and bloody noses notwithstanding. A day in which one doesn't learn something is 24 hours of wasted lifetime.

I, too, think my nation's peace efforts are sucky weak tea, not even beer. But those who make those efforts, don't suck; they rock, and upon such Rock as these are we will build the Peace we want and need. (h/t to J. Christ of Nazareth, Palestine)

9/11: The only misunderstanding I've encountered here is that some "truthers" falsely believed me to be a buyer of the government's explanation because I asked the "truthers" for direct, non-circumstantial evidence for their narratives. I also demand the same for the government's narrative. In neither case have I received it. I am known in El Paso County, Colorado as a "defendant's juror" because I don't trust stand-alone circumstantial evidence for any claim, and I know I have the right (and the duty) as a juror to deny conviction if I think a defendant is being railroaded on circumstantial crap. And I've done just that, too, as the Chair of the Jury to boot.

So, in fine, I support your contention, TBU. Let the pissies go piss off. c99ers have a certain nature as open-spoken, honest folks and we change that for no one; not for man, and the theists among us like myself maintain that this blessed open free forum is doing God's own work -- and by choice, at that!

Peace be upon you, and may this Day bestow every blessing!
("So there!" -- Dr. Marty Leipzig, FidoNet HOLYSMOKE Echo)

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15 users have voted.

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

@thanatokephaloides

we change that for no one

or what's the fucking point?

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9 users have voted.

@thanatokephaloides I don’t think we as a community(however one thinks of it) get brighter when a sane voice leaves.
When trolls leave that’s a different story, but we’ve had so few and we’re small to boot it’s slim pickins’ for them.
Folks around here Do have our biases about certain issues, I Certainly have mine, it don’t mean we can’t ‘walk and chew gum and play b-ball and talk shit and. . . all at the same time.
Basically, don’t call me a stupid motherfucker, tell me something I Don’t know! Share a viewpoint I might Not have considered. Give me a Different perspective.
I know, Selfish, huh?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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15 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

mimi's picture

Someone said we are all dumb-shitters and we are all equally to blame for the shit that is dumped on us.

But be happy, I am so dumb, I don't even recognize, who is upset about whom and want to go home. You can't be dumber than me. That should make you all happy and make you stay here. At least you are not as dumb as me! Because I don't understand Dumb and Dumberer.

Peace. And don't support the bombaramas. You know exactly who I mean, right? See, I told you so, you are smarter than me.

Do you want TOTAL Peace? Yeah !!!

Yahoo

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12 users have voted.

"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

@mimi I DO want total peace. No bombing, no missiles, no shooting, no shit.
Just stop the murder for a change, see whet the fuck happens then. If we could make that choice, would it be worse than what we have now?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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19 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Pricknick's picture

@mimi
I are the most ignorant person you all will ever met though.

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4 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick stupidity cannot. Steven King- The Gunslinger.
‘It’s sorta like being dead, it’s a problem for everyone around, but You’re Dead! That’s just like stupid’.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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7 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

snoopydawg's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

IMG_1141_0.JPG

I've seen way to many stupid people that stay stupid after being shown the facts.

Thanks for the dialogue, tbau

Hell yes, stop the Fucking wars!

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15 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

@Pricknick

Isn't the realization that you don't know everything the first step toward wisdom?

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Raggedy Ann's picture

We really do hash things out. I've gotten my nose bent a time or two, but I'm not leaving. I don't agree with ANYONE 100% of the time, AND I learn something from each one of you.

Thank you, ALL, for being here and hashing it out. We are a community.
Pleasantry

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24 users have voted.

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

@Raggedy Ann that my priority Will Not Be your priority, that doesn’t preclude us from being allies And advocates for and with each other. To think otherwise seems foolhardy to me.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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13 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

WoodsDweller's picture

on that midnight train to Georgia...

... I'd rather live in her world, than live without her in mine.

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10 users have voted.

The lesser evil is still evil. Vote your conscience, not your fear.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@WoodsDweller Are you actually?

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1 user has voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

JtC made in dkmich's post about losing people on this site due to certain discussions. To me, this site is a safe space, to put it lamely in current meme-ish terms. I have my hot buttons too, and I tend to react from the gut sometimes. But the far more important part is having the "argument" in the first place, that's priceless. That makes me remember there are nuances, it isn't all black and white most of the time - it makes me think.

I am almost done with a re-read of 1984, third time. To the part where Winston's almost been broken, but not enough. Funny, I don't remember the ending so tomorrow I'll get to that. To stifle the conversations we have here, or to have people leave because not everyone agrees with them, or they don't want to even talk about certain subjects, well shit, that's what we out here hope to avoid isn't it? That's what this site is about.

I wish I was as eloquent as many out here, but even if I sometimes get mad, I for one learn so much here and that's more important than my feelings being temporarily hurt or upset. Or my feeling a little defensive... We manage to agree to disagree here. Jeez, I had that conversation with a Hillbot Democrat tonight in a Republican's house. I didn't get through to the Hillbot, and he warned me about "fake news" when I mentioned by utter contempt for the MSM, BOTH sides. I let that go mostly, but did manage to shoot in he should read Thomas Frank. Maybe he'll think about that, who knows. But we did have the discussion. This country is already so damned silo'd as far as "politics" that we don't talk about the real issues. The only answer is to keep talking and damn, trying to listen and think. Our owners work overtime to make sure that doesn't happen, lets don't help them do it.

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18 users have voted.

@lizzyh7

Exactly! No two people are ever going to agree on everything and we can't control the way that other people think and feel, so sometimes we have to agree to disagree, as civilized beings. So much better than being brainwashed into cloned ditto-heads, even if we disagree on important issues.

Just so long as we civilly discuss/work together toward some common good without demanding total conformity of each other. That's a horror we must avoid at all costs.

If we can't celebrate certain differences in others, we may have to accept that they exist, as long as these are not actively contributing to harm, especially regarding that to the vulnerable, because we must be united in opposing greater evils if we are to survive at all. Spatting in the wind when we ought to be constructing defences can also blow back in our faces.

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1 user has voted.

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

orlbucfan's picture

I don't get it. Maybe my chiropractor is correct in that he believes common sense is becoming extinct. Example: if one signs on to a political blog, he/she better have a tough mental hide. I do. People are not going to agree politically. BASIC COMMON SENSE!! So someone got their fee-fees hurt. They did a GBCW. What a wuss. Don't get on a political site. Sheesshhhhhhh. Stupidity strikes again. Terrific diary and commentariat, TBAU. Rec'd X 100!!

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3 users have voted.

Some yahoos make me want to change species!

CS in AZ's picture

read and/or participate in whichever websites and online communities they like and feel comfortable, and to leave or stop participating if they don't like the atmosphere or feel comfortable.

I don't know who left, or specifically why. I can't find any comments from people "flouncing out" publicly but it's possible such communication was sent to JtC privately. All he said was we're losing members over this discussion. I can't judge if those departures were a good thing (from my perspective) or not without knowing who left, but given the context it's probably people I will miss. I'm sorry people were that hurt and upset but I do completely get it.

This topic absolutely makes my blood pressure go up, and my enjoyment of this site drop dramatically. I sure did not enjoy coming here on thanksgiving morning to check in, and immediately feeling punched in the face by the top "featured editorial" and having my rage at sexual abusers and their enablers get triggered just before heading out to a gathering of friends to be thankful. I really seriously considered again that I just don't belong here.

I love debate on most topics. But the understanding that sexual abuse is vile and wrong, and should not be tolerated, isn't one of them. In my view that is simply not a topic where there are "two sides" that even deserve discussion. Sorry, but that's a nonnegotiable in my mind.

The fact that a very large portion of the people here apparently feel that sexual abuse is "just the way it is" and no we can't expect that it will ever be stopped, or even agree that it should stop, and think that people who don't want to be abused are "snowflakes" who should shut up, well, it's incredibly insulting and just so disheartening. It does make we wonder what the goddamn point is.

My spouse and I spent yesterday with a group of 20 friends from all walks of life. They include men and women and transgender people; gay, straight and bisexual and kink people; people of various racial and ethnic backgrounds; monogamous couples, triads, single people, people in open relationships. A very diverse group. One thing all agree on: every person's physical body and personal boundaries are not up for debate, and violating them is morally abhorrent and unacceptable, period.

I feel incredibly safe and respected in this group of friends, chosen family, because of this core belief and shared value. This value is important to me. I don't like people who abuse others, and I don't like people who make excuses for it, or who deny it is real, or who says victims of it should shut up and stop complaining. I find it incredibly offensive and frankly, hateful. It feels terrible to read that on here.

Will I stop visiting? I don't know. If this is really how so many people here think, perhaps I should. I can't afford to intentionally give myself higher blood pressure and feelings of anger and pain.

I was the target of a rapist at age 14. My biological mother's live-in boyfriend. I woke one day while she was at work to find him sitting on my chest, his knees on my arms holding them down, and forcing his dick into my mouth. I struggled and tried to fight, and he was very drunk, which is the only reason why I was able to unbalance him and get away. I ran away from home for two weeks and lived with friends.

Finally I told her. I wanted to go home. She asked him about it and he admitted he had "made a pass" at me, but said I was "blowing it out of proportion" and it wasn't anything. She took his side. She believed him. Called me dramatic. She forfeited the right to be my family that day.

I loathe abusers. But I think even more, I loathe women who enable them and excuse their vile behavior, and attack the integrity of the victims. It's very personal to me. It's not a subject I want to debate. It's not an issue with two sides. It's beyond hurtful to read that shit here. So maybe I'll decide not to keep coming here if this is the way people here feel. That's my choice and if you want to call me names or laugh at me for feeling this way, or say you're better off if I do leave so be it.

At this point I'm not planning on it. I like too many of the people and discussions and music and art and other good stuff here to write it off in one day. But I am entirely understanding of anyone who decided it isn't for them. To come here and read that on thanksgiving of all days was incredibly disappointing to say the least. When I saw it front paged and getting recs and atta-boys, I felt sick and nearly lost my appetite completely. Not the way I wanted to start my holiday.

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13 users have voted.

@CS in AZ @CS in AZ What a horrible way to spend your holiday with your family of friends with this stuff in your head.
For all of the brilliance and sophistication presented on this site regarding music, art, poetry, economics, history, science, and politics, we are fumbling and stumbling on the topic of sexual harassment and sexual violence like a bunch of drunks at the sports bar during half time.
You are not alone in considering moving elsewhere. I hope you stay. Hell, I hope I stay! But my attitude about what I have read and my shock at who has written it will never be forgotten.

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8 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@on the cusp

We did manage to have a good day with our family of friends, despite my churning stomach at the beginning, and my husband hobbling along as he's recovering from having hernia surgery on Monday. But it is always healing and uplifting to be with our peeps.

What stood out most was the contrast between that community and this one. That group is my real friends, my family, people I can count on, because of a core of respect and shared values about respect for people and their bodies, and their heart and personal history and their feelings (or irrelevant "fee fees" as they are known here).

This place, despite sometimes giving me similar feelings of being in a community of friends, I realized is not. Stupid me for ever thinking otherwise, even fleetingly. Duh. Still it is depressing. I'm glad you're here, and I hope we both stay too. But like you said, for me this will not be forgotten. I like your analogy of how this site is dealing with the subject. It's perfect. I'm thinking I need to see the sun and get outside today. Best to you!

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8 users have voted.

@CS in AZ I am going to grill a steak, drink some beer, pet the dog.
I am glad you have such a remarkable family and that they will always be there when you need them

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5 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@on the cusp

we are fumbling and stumbling on the topic of sexual harassment and sexual violence like a bunch of drunks at the sports bar during half time.

Is the unfortunate consequence of incoherence in the argument as a whole. There are writers here very adept at taking on weighty topics with writing that is very specific and clear. For others, that apparently doesn't come as easy and they tend to either grossly oversimplify the subject, or misdirect in a confusion of embryonic arguments. In a word, it doesn't help get the conversation off to a good start.

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7 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@CS in AZ

To come here and read that on thanksgiving of all days was incredibly disappointing to say the least. When I saw it front paged and getting recs and atta-boys, I felt sick and nearly lost my appetite completely. Not the way I wanted to start my holiday.

As a survivor myself, I feel the same way you do but for me it was the article on the dubious claims of "False Memory Syndrome" of the children in a pedophile ring and the "reminder" in the essay how "overreach hurts us all" that set me off on Thanksgiving morning. Never mind that the author of the essay never bothered to include the extensive research that was done on the case, or the examinations of over 400 children, 80% of whom had rectal tearing and scarring consistent with brutal trauma, or the fact that as adults, these victims are STILL telling their stories. An unfortunate piece of timing for that essay, to say the least.

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4 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@zoebear

Yes, child abuse, especially child sexual abuse, is vile and contemptible and should never happen. But such accusations, perhaps most of all, require solid incontrovertible evidence - not hearsay, and particularly not links to links to links that can (and sometimes do) wind up in a circle chase.

Never demand that someone prove a negative - it's a logical impossibility (unless they can provide hard evidence that they were not there). The burden of proof is, and should be, on the accuser, not the accused.

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2 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

@CS in AZ
I nearly left shortly before you did for the opposite reason. I was dissuaded by a cooler and wiser head. I read an essay that seemed to me to be saying any man was guilty of some kind of sexual harassment if accused by any woman. I saw no dialogue in the comments, merely a series of affirmations. I could not imagine a way of expressing my thoughts that wouldn't have done more harm than good.

I don't believe a single person here thinks the behavior you described is OK. The problem is that there is a gray area at the boundaries. There was a story in Huffington Post some months back in which a woman expressed her disgust that a man called her mommy on her first day back from maternity leave. How dare he! She wasn't his mommy.

That's an offense, if offense it is, that I've committed myself. On a friend's first day back from maternity leave I greeted her with "Hi mom." She broke into a radiant smile and pulled out a cell phone full of pictures. Apparently I chose a term that to her was a source of pride. Same behavior. Opposite response. If she had been offended I'd like to think she would have told me rather than the Huffington Post. I would have apologized sincerely and altered my behavior toward and around her, hopefully in this single area.

You suffered a terrible experience and the perpetrator got away with it. I'm sorry there was no one you could talk to who could help you put the perpetrator behind bars. But I think you are filtering comments of people with whom you disagree through your pain and missing what they are saying.

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6 users have voted.

to NOT re-litigate the original convo Or to take sides. Or to belittle anyone. About anything.
Or to start a round of you show me yours, I’ll show you mine. I Did say we All have our backstory that no one else here is aware of. Mine is probably just as fucked up as you(ephemeral You) think yours is. That’s not to Diminish Anybody else’s experience.
If you read my replies to comments on This subject(queue the Clash), I’m coming at this admittedly selfishly, I Don’t Want folks to shut down.
Read the essay and comments again if you don’t believe, or understand me. Only, do it with the idea that being offended by an Idea that is Not in lockstep with Your(ephemeral) point of view is the Choice of each individual reader alone.
I honestly thought this essay would sink from sight with little to no comment.
C99p strikes again!

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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5 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

A simple "I'm sorry that happened to you" in your reply to CS in AZ might've been more helpful than telling her you didn't want a "I'll show you mine you show me yours" response.

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9 users have voted.

@zoebear I can be an insensitive shit at times and be completely oblivious about it, too. To have that happen, and live with the memory, surely Does suck.
My heartfelt apologies for lack of tact, and basic human compassion in my response above.
By my broader point still stands, How does shutting down a discussion, which I feel the above attempts to do, help foster understanding?
If it’s Not an attempt at stifling dialogue, what is? Someone is supposed to step up and Argue, or Debate what that person has gone through?
Can’t be done. Therefore the discussion stops.
Am I supposed to validate your experience by sharing a horrific one of my own?
That is Specifically what I’ve been trying to avoid! For everyone!
For Me, that is the same as the race ‘card’, or the gender ‘card’, or any other ‘victim card’. It Does Not Advance the Conversation.
It Stops the Flow of Ideas. And it turns Potential allies and advocates Away with its own special form of Absolutism.
All I’m asking of people is to Not throw up any more road blocks.
If this is all too inarticulate, or insensitive, chalk it up to my inability to communicate clearly for mutual understanding.
Forgive me.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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6 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

CS in AZ's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

I'm completely mystified at how you think that's my intention.

Look, obviously you couldn't care less what happened to me or any other person who has been raped or sexually violated. You think victims should remain silent. And the perpetrators then of course suffer no consequences, and nothing changes. (Except for the person whose life was shattered. But never mind them.)

Whatever you think my point was, it was actually a response to your essay, your finger wagging and name calling (moranz, really?) of anyone who may have decided they don't want to come here and read that shit, because it hurts them or upsets them. What right do you have to judge them.

My point is people have a right to leave if they don't like what's happening here. They have a right to not support or stick with a "community" that treats people that way. You can scold all you want, and stick your fingers in your ears and not even think about why someone might have left over it. Just call them names and laugh at them. That will further understanding, for sure.

Telling me to not talk about my experiences, because you apparently can't hear about it without feeling a bizarre need to one-up me somehow? That is a strange reaction. So you tell me to shut up about it, and the consequences, because you did not want to know and don't care. And you then claim I want to shut down discussion! Lol. Seriously that's rich.

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6 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@CS in AZ

And yet that same sense of community in one thread, is turned on its ear in another when people opine that the Internet is like CB radio where you are warned to enter at your own risk. So my question is, which is it? Is this a community that respects the feelings of others, or is it a place where you better get a thicker skin, because, duh, it's the Internet and what did you expect you moranz?

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8 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@zoebear

I guess maybe in a way it's both.

I do get a strong sense of community here at times, I enjoy many interesting conversations, I learn new things, listen to great music, and learn about the people here and their lives. I have developed those dreaded "fee fees" for this site. Such a moran, right?

The past week and yesterday in particular have strained those threads however, nearly to the breaking point. But I realized I do have ties that have formed, that keep me coming here. Cutting them is not easy. Even in anger and pain, I hesitate. That speaks to a place that is better than some CB radio land of anonymous strangers engaging in heartless "debate" where you have to put on your asbestos big-girl pants to even read the essays. Because honestly, if it were only that, I wouldn't be interested. There is a reason I don't go or subscribe to sites like that: I don't enjoy them.

So yes, I think you've put your finger on why this essay troubles me. Especially the popularity of this POV. If that really is what people want and expect this place to be, that makes me sad too.

Yes obviously in any online forum, as much as we might comprise a certain kind of community, it's still a place where you will sometimes inevitably encounter commentary that is upsetting, and maybe painful. I get that. We discuss difficult topics. I'm good with that. But one thing that makes the difference between community with attachments, and a collection of random strangers on the internet, is how that is dealt with. Friends try not to hurt each other. They listen and care if you're hurt. If they become aware they are causing pain, they try to stop. On the other side, "Fuck you and your fee fees" is the latter.

I felt a deep chill fall over my sense of community here yesterday. Maybe I'm sad this post is correct and this is the stark reality of it. I don't know. My thoughts now are I need time to adjust my expectations and see where it goes. Thank you again for your kind and thoughtful words. It's helping. Smile

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8 users have voted.

@CS in AZ did I tell anybody to shut up? Where did I say perps should not be held accountable? Where did I say I support ‘rape culture’?
I used Moranz as(what I thought) an obviously ironic humorous turn of phrase.
Apparently That didn’t work.
The subject of the post was about Not shutting down the dialogue and trying to keep people on this Site communicating.
You hijack the thread with your personal story.
And you hijack it again with this reply denigrating any response of mine as being too insensitive To YOU.
At no point have I said you don’t matter.
At no point have I(deliberately) set out to insult anyone. If I have, you may re-read my apology above.
I’ve been accused of not supporting feminism. Not guilty.
I’ve been accused of insensitivity. Guilty- I’m human.
I’ve been accused of supporting ‘rape culture’. Not guilty.
I’ve been accused of teling people to shut up- did ya Comprehend the post? It’s about Maintaining lines of communication.
And here we are with this Very personal attack on Me with words and ideas I’m at a loss as to where you could stretch such from my post Or my replies to comments.
Once Again, my Apologies to all for my lack of ability to communicate clearly and my apparent insensitivity to a few.

No Good Deed Goes UnPunished.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace-to you All

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6 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

CS in AZ's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

I didn't say you were insensitive, to me, or otherwise. Someone else made that observation. I also did not use the words rape culture. Where did you pull that from? I hate that term.

You make it clear that you want victims of assaults to shut up, because you are pissed off that I even spoke about the point of view of a victim of sexual assault. You can't even hear about it without getting upset at a victim for speaking about it. Wow.

You accuse me of "hijacking" because I responded to your essay and explained why someone might have left, using my experience and point of view as an example. Now you're screeching at me.

You are taking it quite personally that someone dared to express a different point of view! How ironic. It's CB radio man. There's no hijacking on CB radio.

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5 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

On what the discussion about predators and victims of sexual offenses actually is. When we do, then we can address your other point:

How does shutting down a discussion...

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2 users have voted.

@zoebear get to that point Without a dialogue?
What’s the line between sexual assault and sexual harassment?
Where’s the line between a clumsy, inelegant pass and sexual assault?
For me, the ‘no means No’ seems to be a good place to start.
Stop means STOP at any point in proceedings works also to Me.
Predation=Bad to me.
Anything else?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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2 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

Works best when there is an understanding of good faith. I'm not there with you yet, so you go first and answer the questions you posed:

What do you feel is the line between sexual assault and sexual harassment?
How do you define a "clumsy pass" vs. sexual assault?

I look forward to having a discussion with you and hopefully learning something new.

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4 users have voted.

@Tall Bald and Ugly CS might "think" about her backstory?

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3 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@on the cusp

Unfortunate turn of phrase to be sure.

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3 users have voted.

@zoebear of the sports bar drunk level of writing about this subject.

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2 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@on the cusp

Analogy though Smile

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3 users have voted.
orlbucfan's picture

has my support and sympathy. I was propositioned by a male yahoo who was supposed to be my Driver's Ed teacher. My size (5'11") and deep voice backed him off. That said, no one is forced to stay any place where they are uncomfortable. That applies especially to political sites. It's just the nature of the beast. That's the point I tried to make in my earlier comment. FWIW.

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4 users have voted.

Some yahoos make me want to change species!

detroitmechworks's picture

I find I'm not good at it because I suck at the part where you have to make alliances to get other people kicked off the island.

/snark

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3 users have voted.

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

drunk sports fan that doesn’t know how to communicate clearly.
Would that make anyone else upset if told that?
As for the CB radio reference, it’s a matter of Perspective for this site v other sites- rarely do we get cross chatter and dumbshittedness. For some, this post seems to b an example of dumbshittedness.
How can this post be seen So DIFFERENTLY by people I respect and admire?
Why does this post garner such varying responses for Things That Were Never Said?
Not upset, baffled and bewildered, yes. You’d have to work harder to upset me, actually. But truly puzzled as to the gross misinterpretation of the thesis and the discussion that ensued.
At least it weren’t Boring.
Thank you To ALL for the discussion and my apologies AGAIN for my inability to communicate precisely. Never my strong point.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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7 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

@Tall Bald and Ugly You realize I included myself as one of the bar drunks. This requires nuance, a way with words, turns of phrases that "we" are showing "we" aggregiously lack. I admit my shortcomings.
You apparently do as well, as you have issued numerous apologies for your lack of communication skills.
This whole topic is above my pay grade.

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4 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

But maybe there was a correlation between the execution of your argument and the puzzling responses you received?

Thank you To ALL for the discussion and my apologies AGAIN for my inability to communicate precisely. Never my strong point.

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5 users have voted.

happened forty five years ago Control my life Now? Colour my perceptions? Absolutely! But control? No. I Claim my own agency. No one can do it For me.
And the same for each of you.
Should I Care what happened to someone Else forty years ago? About as much as I would expect someone to care what happened to me that long ago. If this sounds cold hearted and cruel-so be it.
When you’re angry, you’ve made a Choice to Be angry.
When you’re sad-you’ve made a choice.
When you’re Offended-it’s a Choice You have made.
Or has every counselor I’ve ever talked to been wrong?
No, I don’t Need to hear a backstory to understand we all have worth, and trauma and pain and free will.
Of course anybody can leave this site at any time for any reason, no one, least of all me, said you couldn’t. Good luck finding many othe sites as supportive as this one, though.
The Point of this post which has been mangled was to try to dissuade people from acting out of perceived hurt in haste. Very simple.
How we got to a position of who gets to claim the mantle of dick in the dirt most victimized is unnerving to me as a case study of the world we inhabit now. Again, not where I intended this to go. Good intentions and a road to hell come to mind.
To All,
Be well, and be Loved.

Stop These Fucking Wars
peace

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6 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

How we got to a position of who gets to claim the mantle of dick in the dirt most victimized is unnerving to me as a case study of the world we inhabit now

What I can't decide is if your responses in this thread are a case study in unintended irony or obtuseness, my friend.

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5 users have voted.

@zoebear im telling them that they Can’t go to another site if they wish, or that somehow I’m Preventing them from going(actually In the comments), and I Never said Anything to that effect-I’m being obtuse? Got it.
When I Acknowledge we Alll have a backstory and they Alll have Worth, the subtext is I don’t Need to Hear said story to know and respect and Acknowledge the worth of any individual-and yet I’m obtuse? Check.
Said story(mine included) was not central the post as written, hence the charge of thread jacking. And yet, I’m Obtuse.
I’ve said elsewhere ‘make your case, not insults’ and at the tail end of comments I get shit on for ‘knowing nothing about Me!’ And getting Personnally attacked for said ‘not knowing’ and I’m obtuse?
What. The. Fuck.
Project much?
Give it 24 hours and go back and read the post And the comments.
I’ll do the same.
Then talk to me about ‘Obtuseness’.
I’m not the one that dropped a load of shit on the dinner table. I’m not the one that accused Anybody of doing Anything except Maybe acting in Haste. I’m not the one that Volunteered personal FUCKING Info to make my case that I’m right and you other fuckers are just Wrong so shut up about it Already!
And I’M obtuse.
Past irritated now with the latest charge and will no longer be responding for 24 hrs. Just a self imposed cool down from fucked upped-ness happening.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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3 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

zoebear's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

And yet, people just gotta be Pissy about shit. Damn! And take it personally?!?
It’s the Internet, Moranz! Taking this shit personally is like taking CB radio talk personally., you Choose to be offended at your Peril!

Maybe you're taking my observations about your communication skills too personally?

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3 users have voted.

@zoebear

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3 users have voted.

@on the cusp just one more, then. You take an off the rack comment and claim it’s cut to fit? And I’m sensitive? Sweet.
You address me DiRectly and call me Obtuse? And I’m Sensitive? in response?
Another wisecracks I might be angry. Reading Comprehension? Past irritated is Not angry for me-is it for you? If yes, then I’m sorry for your never experiencing the utter Bliss of Red Hot Rage and your sad, life you’ve led to this point.
When I said ‘beyond irritated’ it meant the menu options for response were dwindling rapidly. We had started with the Good Options in the Essay,Kids! That’s right, little Johnny, Humour is Always the First option!
They degrade depressingly Rapidly from there and we were skirting up against Impolite Option number 2(out of four) and that’s usually my limit, self imposed it may be.
I have tried humour, graciousness, empathy, sympathy, humility, apology, amongst others in the comments- there are no Good Options left. Why do you insist on this type of haranguement towards people? Zoe, I address your point of coming to agreement on defining what was what and for whom and you blew right by it.
I go back and read all 144 comments on dkmich post which is where CS Should have left that comment, it was More Germane to the convo there then here, again, the charge of threadijacking when the same players decide to shit here.
And I’m calling Bullshit on it. Check it. . .
Whowhatwherewhy has a post up on thread jacking in three installments. The tail end of the comments to this post illustrate two of the three to a ‘T’.
Don’t believe me? Go look. Thanks for the textbook example.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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0 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

@Tall Bald and Ugly I didn't say any of that. You need to direct your comment to someone else. You aren't responding to anything I wrote. ?
I said I am as clumsy on this topic as everyone else.
I said you were the one to say getting angry on a comment thread or blog was basically thin skinned, and you said it takes a lot to make you angry. And you wrote an essay calling people who left "snowflakes" and now, you are taking yourself away for a day.
Who is the thin skinned snowflake here?

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4 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly

You and the people who upvoted this can go ahead and celebrate your victory. One more person silenced. Feel good about yourselves.

So long and thanks for all the fish.

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2 users have voted.

@CS in AZ

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4 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@CS in AZ

I put off telling you how much I've enjoyed reading your long and thoughtful and sometimes inspiring comments in recent months. I'm probably not the only one.

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6 users have voted.

@CS in AZ
bye, Felicia?
Vaya con Dios?
What?

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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1 user has voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@CS in AZ This is just to say, I wish you hadn't gone, and if I'd been aware of this diary, I would have urged you to stay.

I disagree that because a place is online, it must therefore have large signs stating Caveat Emptor and Enter At Your Own Risk all over it.

The idea I had when I first conceived this place was of a place that was, at once, open to diversity of opinion and civil. Most importantly, it would be a place without systematic, institutional bullying, and as free from bullying in general as we could make it.

Being open to diversity of opinion/being supportive of freedom of speech is only one of the three legs of this stool. That is my opinion, as one of the founding members.

I'm only sorry I wasn't here to give it when it mattered. Thanksgiving intervened.

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

People will find ways to saw off the branches they're sitting on, and the bizarre "discussion" that your essay has sparked is stark evidence of this sad fact.

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9 users have voted.

Sigh