@JekyllnHyde @JekyllnHyde

Confusion/redirection/blame-the-victim/accessible vulnerable group tactics. An old polluting industry strategy which has long enabled them to continue profitably-for-them killing workers, the general public and the environment with impunity while giving the public groups within their general population which they can reach to blame. When people think they know the answer/perpetrator, they often look no further to verify.

That said, armed groups emulating notorious murderous psychopaths marching to threaten groups perceived as being vulnerable do not strike me as being more entitled to 'free speech' than their victims are of being protected against having their safety and reputations threatened/maligned by armed groups emulating notorious murderous psychopaths.

As with the Dems, attacking 'the other' does not make a movement or a political statement, merely an attack.

Edit for letter typo, missed dash and addition of bolding.

#3.1

In recent months, many so-called "Liberal Pundits" on television have taken to coddling Neoconservatives and other discredited Rightists. The same Neocons (cheered on by many on the Right) who brought us the illegal, immoral Iraq War and justified it based on manipulated intelligence and blatant lies.

@MichaelSF The tactics on the left in this situation are atrocious. They increase risk for the people they are championing without any hope of commensurate reward. In fact, it's hard to see how the firing of those four people advances the cause of the social justice warriors at all. It's a real gift to the fascists though. They get to be the aggrieved victims--their favorite position. Their assertions that they are the ones on the moral high ground are now plausible to a shallow thinker--and most people are, in this era, pretty shallow thinkers, mainly because they have little time to be anything else. The claim that "the Black people are coming for your jobs" now has evidence behind it for the first time. And the chances that a lot of people on the right have been radicalized and activated by this are fairly good.

The rewards seem to be primarily masturbatory, in that it provides a temporary pleasure to the people who get to stick it to a fascist and hit 'em where it hurts. But it just shows how the people who decided to do that are not revolutionaries in any sense. If you're a revolutionary, you probably will end up having to do ugly things, but everything you do is measured in light of how it advances the revolution--not how it makes you feel better to get one over on some rank-and-file enemy.

By the way, I doubt the leaderships of white supremacist organizations give two shits about guys like the ones who got fired, and if they suffered economically for being associated with fascism, I suspect the leaders wouldn't give a shit. However, rank-and-file right wingers across the country WILL care, and they will probably make these four guys into living martyrs and create GoFundMe campaigns for each of them, and the fired-from-a-minimum-wage-job fascists could end up being a couple hundred thousand dollars richer each for the experience. Or they could get no help at all, and become people who now have practically nothing left to lose and who have, in their heads, been confirmed in every shitty belief they ever had. Extreme right-wingers like that rarely respond to negative consequences like this with fear, and a subsequent resolve to not attend any more fascist marches. They are not going to be scared to attend a rally like that again. They will be far more likely to attend a lot more rallies like that again, because now they've been given a personal reason to want to hurt Black people.

Kudos all around. Now all we need is to blow up fucking Mount Rushmore, because that'll help.

The leadership of this movement is either rock-stupid, completely selfish and irresponsible, or, shall we say, working for different organizations than they claim.

#6.1

Perhaps those workers should have thought a bit about the effect on their jobs before deciding to go out and try to stomp mud people and race traitors into the hospital.

This is not the same thing as neo-liberal blaming of someone for being in a crap job because they haven't yanked hard enough on their bootstraps and gone out and gotten training for a non-existent 21st century job. Every one of those idiots made the choice to go to C-ville in the hopes of engaging in a bit of the old ultra-violence. They made their bed and deliberately shat in it, so they don't deserve any sympathy for how stinky they made their lives.

If they'd had any sense and desire to not be unemployed (and potentially unemployable) they'd have stayed at home and engaged in boasting about their Aryan credentials with their Stormfront pals online.

@edg  
Then they came for anyone who was part of a forum where BDS was discussed.

Seriously, look at the laws that have been passed in places like New York, and the bills that have been introduced in Congress at Israel-supporters’ behest. A $250,000 fine for advocating a boycott (that is, expressing an opinion)? Ffft. No wonder human rights in the U.S. are in such bad shape. It’s not just Trump, Congress is just as bad (with the possible exception of Bernie Sanders and Rand Paul).

#8.6

First they came for the Nazis. Then they came for the Socialists. Then they came for the Progressives. Then they came for you.

@Not Henry Kissinger

Not big on violence myself, but we need to come up with something better, and fast.

This is best read in full at source, but as one example:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-brodsky/the-new-nazis-of-europe-c_...

THE BLOG 10/03/2012 02:42 pm ET Updated Dec 03, 2012
The New Nazis of Europe: Coming to America?
By Richard Brodsky

The resurgence of Nazi and neo-Nazi movements in Europe is attracting more attention in the United States. The New York Times featured the activities of the Golden Dawn, an explicitly neo-fascist, neo-Nazi political party that has become the fifth largest party in the Greek Parliament, with every prospect of getting bigger. Golden Dawn focuses on illegal immigration from Africa and Asia, in the context of brutal austerity measures that have affected the standard of living of almost everybody. It’s a toxic brew, and there’s more of it coming.

There have been similar organized upsurges across Europe. Notable examples are efforts to provide public pensions to surviving members of Hitler’s Waffen-SS in the Baltic states, a variety of outrages in Germany, and the God-awful mass murder in Norway by a self-professed right-wing vigilante. There has been a growing recognition by mainstream European political forces that these incidents can no longer be shrugged off as fringe manifestations. The semi-meltdown of the European economy, the austerity measures demanded by banks, the world-wide interest in Islamic extremism, and the influx of immigrants of color have all contributed to the increase in incidents and organizations of the very far right.

The European response has come largely from Russia. Russia has both internal problems with neo-Nazi groups, and a national political interest in focusing on their growth in the Baltic states. In domestic terms, the Russian people, having lost 24 million souls to the fight with Nazi Germany, are vigilant and concerned by anything smacking of a Nazi resurgence. An organization has been created, World Without Nazism by a Russian Senator, Boris Shpiegel. It has been meeting largely in Russia, but On October 9 it’s convening in Strasbourg France, the home of the European Union, with a line up of heavyweights (the former president of Ukraine, lots of members of Parliaments, and a delegation from the US among others) and an intention to upgrade it’s efforts in Western Europe and maybe the USA.

I attended two meetings of WWN in Moscow and came away convinced that there’s enough going on to make their work important. It’s certainly possible that when the economy recovers the public tolerance of neo-Nazi movements will vanish. But if there’s any lesson to be learned from history, it’s that we are better off erring on the side of concern before things take off. ...

... it’s not as though the new neo-Nazis are leaving us alone. Golden Dawn has opened an office in Washington, and some of what we’ve heard from the Baltic states should give the State Department pause. ...

But fascism has already infected too many in government around the globe and Nazi Parties are arising all over.

The Germans lacked foreknowledge of what this meant - we don't have that excuse.

Edit: and, as we know, the Nazi/terrorist-fighting Russia is (along with all other independent countries capable of self-defense) targeted for invasion/attack/subjugation/destruction by the world's largest military with the world's largest supply of Weapons of Mass Destruction, built up to literally insane levels by an American fascist 'shadow government' we term Deep State, at American taxpayer cost, this including the expenditure of American cannon-fodder bodies.

Who ya gonna vote for to clean this horror out and bring in democracy, and does it even matter any more, now that they really do not need actual voters, rather than merely thinking/saying they don't? What the heck can be done - or do we just keep encouraging more and worse by sucking it up and voting for more and worse until we choke to death?

Re-edit to add:

http://www.startribune.com/nazi-resurgence-alarms-minnesota-veterans-hol...

Nazi resurgence alarms Minnesota World War II veterans, Holocaust survivors
In the aftermath of last weekend's deadly violence in Virginia, no one may be feeling more anger and fear than those who battled the Nazis and those nearly killed by them.
By Kelly Smith and Matt McKinney Star Tribune
August 19, 2017 — 8:39pm

As a young P-47 Thunderbolt pilot in World War II, Bill Schleppegrell flew more than a dozen combat missions in Europe before he was shot down by Nazis and imprisoned for the final months of conflict.

Echoes of that long-ago life are sounding again as Schleppegrell sees Nazi symbols and chants being invoked by a resurgent white supremacy movement that recently took to the streets of Charlottesville, Va.

“I’ve seen this coming,” said the 93-year-old former Hibbing High school teacher.

That same unease is gripping Holocaust survivor Judith Meisel of St. Louis Park. After Charlottesville, she couldn’t sleep because she was so upset by the images of KKK hoods and Nazi flags.

“I’m back in Germany,” she said. “This is something that is unbelievable.” ...

... But no one may be feeling more anger and fear from the sight of Americans waving swastika flags than the World War II veterans who battled the Nazis and the concentration camp victims nearly killed by them.

Meisel is a survivor of Stutthof, a concentration camp in Poland, where 60,000 people were killed. She watched her mother enter the gas chamber and survived having guards tear out her hair and pry off her fingernails before she and her sister escaped a death march and were liberated in Denmark.

Decades later, in her St. Louis Park apartment, the 88-year-old widow and civil rights activist is deeply worried about the Charlottesville violence. She said she has seen other signs of anti-Semitism in the U.S. over the years, but this rising hatred feels different to her, and she draws parallels to the beginnings of Nazi Germany. ...

... Judy Baron only needs to look at her left arm to see a reminder of the horrors of Auschwitz and later the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp. The blue tattoo of her prison number — A13459 — inked when she was 15 years old, has faded with time. But the painful memories of watching her mother and two sisters die haven’t.

“It was hell,” she said. “I can’t imagine how I survived.”

Now 88, Baron, who lives in Golden Valley, said it makes her sick to watch images of young, white men holding torches and yelling anti-Semitic phrases.

“It’s so frightening, especially for someone who has lived through it,” she said. “This is how Hitler started. We all know how it turned out so we better do something about it. That’s exactly what they did — marched with fire and yelled, ‘No Jews! No Jews!’ ” ...

(Dunno anything about this myself, of course, but I'll bet that somebody here will.)

https://journal-neo.org/2016/05/01/the-resurgence-of-neo-nazism-comes-fr...

01.05.2016 Author: Konrad Stachnio
The Resurgence of neo-Nazism Comes From Ukraine to Europe
https://journal-neo.org/2016/05/01/the-resurgence-of-neo-nazism-comes-fr...

Ukrainian ‘patriots‘ encouraged by Polish support in the form of body armor, boots and other valuables sent to their comrades fighting against the ‘Russian aggression’ finally decided to visit the country of its strategic partner.

Tour de Concentration Camp

The tour of larger German concentration camps in Poland involves taking photos at the crematorium furnaces or camp barracks with a characteristic gesture commonly known in Ukraine as a ‘fame for victory‘ and what is more, echoed by the former ‘residents’ of those camps as ‘Sieg Heil’.

These are simply the germs of democratic processes with which we will soon have to deal on a much larger scale in Europe if the planned abolition of visas for citizens of Ukraine is introduced by the European Union.

They might let the fruits of the Ukrainian Maidan spread across Europe supporting the ‘democratic’ processes here and there. And yet there is a lot to fight for. In Ukraine we need to deal with the ‘Russian aggression’ while in Europe the ‘Islamic invasion’ is a growing threat. ...

Further mention of Ukrainian Nazi's here...??? This from 2014, 2 years after the HuffPost article at top... again, I (obviously) know nothing about this and am counting on experts here for verification.

http://columbusfreepress.com/article/new-fascist-resurgence-america

A new fascist resurgence in America
by Gerry Bello
April 15, 2014

The end of winter has brought an dramatic uptick in far right activity in America. 2014 seemed on course to be no different from 2012 or 2013, which saw very little organizing or activity by Klan and neo-Nazi groups. In the past few weeks there has been an armed standoff in Nevada, a racist murder spree in Kansas, a storming of a union hall by Ukrainian fascists in Chicago and massive KKK flyer drops in Ohio and throughout the Midwest. In each incident, the response by government agencies has been muted and coddling. Mainstream media sources appear unwilling or not competent to conduct basic background research either the players or the action on the field. Frazier Glenn Miller, a long time white supremacist, decided to start Passover with a murder spree on Sunday, April 13 in Kansas City. Meanwhile in Chicago, activists engaged in a teach-in at a United Electrical Workers Union hall were besieged by a mob of nearly 50 Ukrainian fascists. The Chicago area has also seen the a recent wave of far right activity. Several times in the past months, unknown persons have engaged in the distribution of KKK and neo-Nazi literature at night. Thousands of pages of hate tracts have been left at homes and business in a single night. The literature has had the logos of and contact information for multiple groups although the method and timing of the clandestine literature drops suggest a single group distributing all the information. The mainstream press was quick to announce Miller's history of failed attempts at getting elected to public office in Missouri as a write-in candidate where he garnered less than 50 votes per attempt. The press was silent on his earlier electoral history in North Carolina where he twice got over 5,000 votes while running for Congress. After shooting three people at a Jewish community center and a Jewish assisted living facility, Miller was captured at a nearby elementary school. He was reported to have screamed “Heil Hitler” repeatedly during and after his capture but the press gave no information on why an armed and murderous neo-Nazi was captured without a gunfight at an elementary school when nearly all other similar active shooters are gunned down by law enforcement. While Miller murdered innocents and 50 Ukrainian fascists stormed a union hall in Chicago, a rancher in Nevada was having an armed standoff with federal agents over grazing fees. The rancher, Cliven Bundy, grazed his cattle on government land for decades without paying fees. He owed over one million dollars in back fees. When federal agents arrived to remove hundreds of his cows from federal land, they were met by over 1,000 armed protestors who pointed arms at the agents. The press described these protestors “militia members” while several were sporting neo-Nazi tattoos. The incident ended without gunfire with the feds re-grouping and seeking some other way to extract the owed fees and prohibit continued grazing. This bold resurgence of open and sometimes armed neo-Nazi activity has been preceded by a rash of literature drops by an offshoot of the KKK. ...

And again edited because somehow I managed to get the quote between the date and where it was supposed to be, at top.

#8.7

It's the tactics of the attacker you should worry about.

Antifa's tactics are no less Nazi just because it uses them against Nazis.

Both groups are two sides of the same authoritarian coin.

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
i'm only saying it's not new, it's only barely news, and it's certainly well in keeping with "leftist" politic of the last 35 years.

remember, "we" drove James Watt out of the office of Secretary of the Interior, not because he was a millennialist lunatic who thought Jesus would be disappointed if he came back and we hadn't used up everything that God had created for us to exploit, but because he uttered the phrase, "A woman, a black, two Jews and a cripple." in doing so, "we" set the stage for the ensuing "politics of personal destruction".

so, it's not surprising -- though it might nonetheless be disturbing -- that we come to a place where the left is demanding that employers do what employers have long done with regard to conservative moral values: punish employees who conspicuously lie too far out of the acceptable norms.

#12.1 Absolutely not a reason to reinstate any of that.
They are not our parents, our owners, or our masters.