So now Bernie is a Putin Puppet
The Senate passed the new Russia sanctions bill 98-2 this week, and only Soviet agents would vote against it. Or so Clintonites would have you believe.
Adam Parkhomenko, former Clinton aide and founder of the Ready for Hillary PAC, tweeted: “...98 Senators voted for Russian sanctions today. Sanders voted the same way anyone with the last name Trump would vote if they were in the Senate. No excuses ― stop making them for him.”
Peter Daou, another Clinton adviser, also took to Twitter, writing, “So Bernie Sanders was 1 of 2 (out of 100) senators to vote against Russia sanctions. And 1 of 4 to vote against the Magnitsky Act.” Daou’s reference to the 2012 Magnitsky Act, another bill leveling sanctions against Russia, suggests he believes Sanders’ vote indicates he is tied to Putin.
Feel the Bern? Bernie Sanders voted against Russian sanctions today. 98 Senators voted for Russian sanctions today.
— Adam Parkhomenko (@AdamParkhomenko) July 27, 2017
The article explains that Sanders voted against the bill because it slaps sanctions on Iran, which "impact on the Iran nuclear deal, or Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA)". It's curious how quickly Democrats will abandon one of Obama's most important legacies.
I am strongly supportive of sanctions on Russia and North Korea. However, I worry very much about President Trump’s approach to Iran.
— Bernie Sanders (@SenSanders) July 27, 2017
There are two other very good reasons to oppose the Russia sanctions bill, besides opposing a pointless escalation of political tensions (something no one is bothering to mention).
One of them was brought up by a House Republican.
Congressman Tom Massie of Kentucky was one of the three Congress members, all Republicans, to vote No. “I voted against vague, expensive, and reckless sanctions,” he says....This bill authorizes $250 million for a vague Countering Russian Influence Fund,” Massie says, “with no accountability on who these funds will go to or how they will be used."
Massie also said some crazy anti-UN sh*t, but at least he's right about opposing a huge, unaccountable slush-fund.
The other, and most important reason, is what our European allies think.
The German economy minister Brigitte Zyries warned the United States about possible repercussions after the US House of Representatives voted to impose new sweeping financial sanctions on Russia.
"It's bad that the US has left the common line it had with Europe for sanctions against Russia."
'There is now the possibility of counter-sanctions against the US."
Yes, a European trade war against the US is possible now.
Making use of the EU “Blocking Statute,” an EU regulation (Council Regulation 2771/96) that says no decision based on extraterritorial U.S. laws is enforceable in the EU.
This is a big deal, and almost no one seems to care inside Washington.
They also target Russian extraction of offshore gas in the High North, Russian arms exports, and Russian banks, as well as containing new measures on Iran and North Korea.
The threat of US fines could put at risk Russia's plan to build a new gas pipeline to Germany, Nord Stream II, which involves five Austrian, German, French, and Anglo-Dutch firms.
“If our concerns are not taken into account sufficiently, we stand ready to act appropriately within a matter of days,” Commission chief Jean-Claude Juncker told press in Brussels on Wednesday.
“America first cannot mean that Europe's interests come last,” he added, referring to German complaints that the new sanctions were designed to help US firms sell liquid gas to Europe.
It's not Trump that is forcing a split here between Europe and the US. It's the Democrats, and for stupid reasons.
"If the president vetoes this bill, the American people will know that he is being soft on Putin, that he’s giving a free pass to a foreign adversary who violated the sanctity of our democracy," Schumer said.
One thing is clear: the obvious winner of a diplomatic split between Europe and the U.S. would be Russia.
Thus the Democrats are Russia's Useful Idiots.
Comments
It's all about Her.
They would destroy the world in their tantrum at Her loss.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Bernie And Jill
From The Hill:
https://www.google.com/amp/thehill.com/policy/national-security/343292-j...
The GOP and the DLC now have a common enemy. Anyone to the left of Hillary is a Communist sympathizer and/or fellow traveler.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
@Meteor Man They're just Stalin...
They're just Stalin the Progressives...
Edited to add the half-sentence missing when I prematurely clicked.
And edited to add: '... Anyone to the left of Hillary...' means they are grossly outnumbered by fellow-travelers, lol!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Meteor Man Actually, it's anyone,
Actually, it's anyone, right or left, who didn't vote for her. All of us are comrades now (much to the chagrin, I imagine, of the right-wingers who think "socialist" is the worst word in the English language). But we're all one big happy family now! The union makes us strong!
In this case, it's the Union of People Hillary Hates.
Na Zdorovie, tovarisches!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well said!
"the Union of People Hillary Hates."
This will fit on a T shirt, maybe even a bumper sticker.
@FuturePassed Nice pun on "union"
Nice pun on "union" too, if I do say so myself.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Sergei Ryabkov
Went on ABC "This Week" and said they Russians are going to retaliate for the sanctions. All of Washington neocons are calling their doctors about the 4 hour erections they've had. Even Hillary.
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
@boriscleto
Hard to cut back on this, ideally read in full at source...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/28/russia-to-strike-hard-...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/18/gulf-crisis-us-admits-...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/09/king-saudi-arabia-to-v...
Edited to add, regarding this:
that these sanctions, weakening some of the worst US corporate criminals, might be one of the best things that could possibly happen for the people and other life on the planet!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@boriscleto Great. Fucking assholes.
Great.
Fucking assholes.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Congressman Tom Massie of
Whadda ya wanna bet that'll be for the Correct The Record-type internet trolls to swarm places like this, where site owners cannot be bullied, bribed or blackmailed into becoming Official Party Line Propaganda rags?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
OK, I give up.
Now the entire US Congress has gone insane.
native
@native
Lol, I know you certainly haven't missed the previous high level of Congressional insanity - would you care to rephrase? I know it was hard to believe that they could possibly get any loonier but they do seem to be building out into new territory as they go...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
A comparison of the recent foreign policy initiatives
undertaken by the USG and the Russian Federation respectively, clearly reveals which government has been acting rationally and responsibly, and which one has not. I don't know what impulse or delusion or pressure has compelled the entire US Congress to act like a herd of mindless cattle by endorsing this purely destructive act, but whatever it was, it does not speak well of America's law makers. I can see how some of them, maybe even a lot of them, might be in thrall (for one reason or another) to neocon ideology and perpetual warfare... but virtually all of them?? I find that degree of unanimity, in support for such clearly bad policy, to be frightening.
native
@native Yep. It's what I've
Yep. It's what I've been calling a univocal monarchical cartel.
There are some signs that they aren't the only power, but not among politicians.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@native
That's what they get paid the big bucks and lucrative top management/lobbyist/hedge fund positions for! Just ask Obama! (Clinton might be a little touchy about questions like that just now...)
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I have a theory about this
Congress is doing its job for getting people behind the upcoming war with Russia. Look at how many congress members are saying that this was an act of war when they are telling us that Russia interfered with the election even though no one or no intelligence agencies have shown us any proof that they did that.
They tell us that 17 intelligent agencies have agreed that this happened when it's only 4 agencies that are in agreement on it. One used to be one that Clapper was the head of.
And that Russia hacked in to Vermont's electrical grid when the laptop wasn't even hooked up to the grid. People are still repeating both statements.
The USA and NATO have troops in many countries that border Russia and has put missile defense shields in them. We are being told that they are to protect countries from Iran. Many people believe this.
In reality, the democrats don't believe that Russia interfered with the election, they are saying this to soften people up for a possible war with Russia.
Gawd knows that Russia has the right to defend itself from this offensive action. Just imagine if Russia and NATO had stationed troops in Mexico and Canada. This would be considered an act of war and the shooting would have started long ago.
The hubris of this country's government knows no bounds.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
@native Nope, there's three who
Nope, there's three who didn't.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You're right,
and I should not be ignoring them. Would you please tell me their names?
native
@native Well, in the House
Well, in the House there were three, all Republicans:
Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan (it's not the first time I've found myself oddly on the same side with him. I'm sure he's a total bastard, but he was a big ally against the surveillance state, and seemed genuinely distressed about Aaron Swartz's death.)
Rep. Tom Massie of Kentucky
Rep. John Duncan of Tennessee (first time in a very long time since any TN politician has done anything I like)
And then there's two in the Senate:
Bernie Sanders, VT
Rand Paul, KY
So there's actually five people in Congress who either don't want a war with Russia, or don't want a trade war with all of Europe, or don't want an attempt to bomb Tehran to rubble just like we did with Baghdad.
Actually, I agree with Massie when he says what he doesn't want is a 250 million-dollar unaccountable slush fund for "countering Russian influence." I'm no spending hawk, but FFS, there are limits. Especially with those grimy people in charge, and with a title like that, it probably means 250 million dollars' worth of McCarthyism.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Whoops, you beat me to the punch. Thanks.
native
I wonder of the 13 non-voters in the House
how many weren't there and how many just didn't vote. Google is of basically no help there.
@Dhyerwolf It's hard to get
It's hard to get data on stuff like that, b/c you basically have to read their intentions.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Dhyerwolf Oh, you mean who
Oh, you mean who wasn't there--physically!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
OK here we go:
The three House votes against the bill came from Republicans -- Rep. Justin Amash of Michigan, Rep. Tom Massie of Kentucky and Rep. John Duncan of Tennessee.
And... the Senate also overwhelmingly approved the measure in a 98-2 vote. Only Senators Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders voting no. (one Republican, one Independent)
Cheers for those brave few, and a pox on all their colleagues.
native
@native Four Republicans and
Four Republicans and an Independent.
They should start a band. Like one of those early-60s bands with four guys and a gal. Like the Platters, but white.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Just imagine Amash,
Just imagine Amash, Massie, Duncan and Paul in red, with Bernie in blue, singing to our now nonexistent Republic.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's stupid to apply sanctions while the investigation continues
but then again the democrats have been trading our health, liberties and futures for political points.
The real SparkyGump has passed. It was an honor being your human.
An Off Topic Blurb
Just throwing this out there from a long rant at Counterpunch:
https://www.counterpunch.org/2017/07/28/donald-the-destroyer-assessing-t...
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Obviously at 98-2 it's not just the democrats.
As for Sanders, he's not a Putin apologist, but he is an imperialist who therefore supports global capitalism which is primarily what imperialism is for. He's voted for sanctions on Russia before, he did just last month, and has made it clear he is for the sanctions. Since the sanctions are based on lies, that makes Bernie a liar like the rest of them. His beef about the Iran deal is also based on lies, which is what the Iran deal is, lies. The Iran "deal" is an engineered step developed by right wing think tanks to paint Iran in a corner and enable the U.S. to claim it has broken the "deal", which was never necessary nor legal in the first place. That's where the lies come in. Bernie has played along with the rest of them, including Trump, since Obama implemented it for the neocons/Zionists.
As for the democrats who think Sanders is a Putin apologist, that just shows how ignorant they are and how led by Obama they have gone completely over to the imperialist side.
In for a penny, in for a pound.
I don't understand why he voted no. Your comment was the same thought I had. If it was a play to re-gain any of his supporters who've turned away, I can't see how it was supposed to work. It's not like he suddenly changed his mind on RUSSIARUSSIARUSSIA. Hell, even the OP shows Sanders tweeted about supporting the sanctions if not for Iran, which is also bogus. Doesn't he know we understand this stuff? And a no vote wasn't going to do him favors with the Dems he's trying to unite with. They're just looking for reasons to write him off anyway. So color me confused on this.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I guess it could be he honestly doesn't want to see a war
in Iran and believes the "deal" is the best way politically to prevent it. Problem is that isn't true, the deal is actually a way to eventually justify more acts against Iran including war.
So whatever he thinks he's doing, he's actually perpetuating and reaffirming the lies and false narratives against Iran and Russia anyway.
http://landdestroyer.blogspot.com/2017/03/us-predictably-turns-iran-deal...
Good answer
Fits the mindset Sanders seems to operate under these days. I still think he has good intentions and sincere beliefs, he is choosing a path of the same old pragmatism which will never get us there.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
My 'guess' is that he knows that some folks
will understand. But, for every person who sees through it, there are likely many more who won't.
Mollie
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit and therefore–to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
disagree
for every media quote: one believes, 3 are sceptical and 12 see it as BS. I did a survey, really, or not.
Close to a news black out on EU reaction.
The story of EU objections has been pretty much a hidden story in the mass and elite media. I could not find out from the stories if the House modified the Senate sanctions on energy sector companies.
Seems that either the sanctions will not be enforced or bunches of exceptions made. And of course, the media will not report it, or if reported, it will be back page stuff.
And in the mean time, democrats gave Trump permission to open warfare with Iran.
@MrWebster
This part is selfish but - if he does, we're all toast...
The rest of the long-targeted countries cannot simply stand by and wait, while their allies are taken out one by one, to be devastated themselves.
Sounds like Putin might be the one to potentially salvage some of the life on the planet, at least for a while, by stopping The US Psychopaths That Be from their planned hostile global corporate/military take-over. It's unfortunate that those psychopaths will likely force the destruction of much of North America before long-denied reality finally soaks in - or enough of them are blasted out of existence, along with the rest of us.
Personally, I think that the Russians should start by first exploding the international banksters and those private little meetings between the various Psychopaths That Be where they decide what they'll do to the rest of us next. That might solve the problem right there with a minimum of bloodshed and environmental destruction.
Trying to recall who it was that recently posted a link to this site here on C-99, which I followed... a fascinating place to roam around in, including opinion pieces with different viewpoints with which, of course, one may not always agree but also supplying a ton of interesting information, although I naturally have no means of verifying such myself.
But the waste, incompetence and corruption of the MIC is undeniable, as is the fact that the US PTB have generally depended upon war-crimes of illegal military muggings on vulnerable countries and their people and still have not ever 'won' what they attempted to dignify with the term 'war'; facing long-threatened victims even a fraction of their own size virtually guarantees the intended victims finally strike their attackers at home, where the previously safe and unwitting/disinformed people will suffer while war profiteers cower in their luxury bunkers.
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/26/the-military-industria...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/18/russia-deploys-termina...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/02/russia-new-weapons-air...
https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2017/07/15/nato-surface-ships-sit...
While the US Psychopaths That Be have concentrated on cheating, bullying and invading others perceived as vulnerable for insane profits to a relative few, also at American taxpayer and other citizens and countries expense, Russia has focused on defense of the Russian people and those of their allies. And Russia will not permit invasion of her borders, but - if unavoidable, as the US PTB seem so determined to make it - will as well bring any attempt to the home country of their attackers.
Since they have been forced to create said-to-be unstoppable missiles which are described as capable of turning an area the size of Texas to ash, one such missile per state could eradicate the entire US, making me very glad that the suicidally murderous US PTB do not yet have these and that, if TPTB are sane enough to accept the intended deterrence factor rather than running to New Zealand to unknowingly await their doom On The (then-sunless) Beach or believing that a brief stay in a luxury bunker will release them to a livable existence on a planet still having breathable air and utterly under their control, this might cause them to cancel their global conquest plans.
But they don't even have the sense to not send down the acid rain on their own home - and only - planet...
(Why, yes, I often do phrase things specifically to irritate any potential readers being propagandists/among those who would censor us. The most imperative time to speak out is when we have reason to begin to fear doing so.
(These weapons would never have needed to have been developed at all, had not a certain relatively few pathologically greedy and destructive lunatics engaged in these appalling and massive crime sprees around the world, and worsened with time, governmental enabling and criminal profiteering successfully increasing their stolen power. Gee, PTB and lackeys, thanks for the arms race and the created shift away from civilized ideals and any hope of planetary life surviving the greed-mongering, guys.)
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Careful.
You are assuming Russian weapons systems operate at theoretical capabilities and not thinking much about possible American responses. To take one example, the US is developing, and has deployed an early version of, a laser system to provide air defense. Hyper-sonic isn't very fast compared to the speed of light. Someone in Russia could invert your logic, look at US weapons under development, assume the F-35 will be able to do everything it's supposed to do, (It won't.) and make the case that Russia is falling behind.
Russian and American personnel and weapons have not engaged each other. Weapons systems have advantages and disadvantages. I don't think anyone knows how they would perform against each other. I agree entirely that the quality of US weapons is eroding as making maximum profits supplants building first tier systems as the dominant objective.
Finally, both the US and Russia have the ability to destroy the other after absorbing a first strike. Upgrades of nuclear weapons are being designed to fight "controlled" nuclear wars where each side continues to hold the other's population hostage while they degrade each other's capability to fight such controlled wars. This is a truly terrifying proposition.
@FuturePassed This is the heart of
This is the heart of it:
I agree entirely that the quality of US weapons is eroding as making maximum profits supplants building first tier systems as the dominant objective.
One of the greatest problems for the current form of capitalism, and maybe for all forms (I'm on the fence on that question) is that the drive to maximize profits erodes the quality of everything produced. That means that capitalism does not have the relationship to progress that it advertises, nor does it have its advertised relationship to efficiency (much less to effectiveness). It also has a more vexed relationship to innovation than previously admitted (innovations which lead, and fairly quickly too, to maximized profit, will be embraced; all other innovations will be ignored or actively squelched.)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@FuturePassed
Very true, indeed, all that you say.
But for me, major issues are such as that none of these capacities would need to be striven for at all, if not for the global hostile military/corporate takeover in progress and that life on the planet can be utterly destroyed in any such engagement as the US PTB are pushing for, in their boundless and destructive greed.
If not for such as this unrestrained and pathological power-seeking, nascent secular/social democracies which have been overthrown/impeded might well have prospered, along with greener tech and more adequate controls over industrial pollution and rampant corporate/military destruction, with terrorism never having been created as a global scourge and civilization remaining as an ideal. We'll never know what 'might have beens' have been destroyed along the way.
Victimized people and countries have a right to protect themselves against rapacious criminals and perhaps our best and only hope can be that there is enough restrained strength within their defenses to deter these globally encroaching criminals from further crimes, at least abroad.
The Psychopaths That Be appear to have the usual psychopathic lack of ability to imagine that their 'exceptional' selves can also suffer by their own actions, despite being far more clever and special than anyone else, in their own estimation; it's essential that their intended victims be able to stymie and counter their attacks and that TPTB understand that this can be done, and that their bullying and destruction can no longer catastrophically continue across the world. If not, who will stop them?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Right.
I was not questioning that part of your analysis.
Do remember, though, that there are very good reasons why the Baltic States and Poland are among the strongest supporters of NATO. (They never should have been let in, but that's a separate discussion.)
@FuturePassed
Dare I be hopeful that you're considering writing an essay on the subject?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
The brief answer
is that
1. We promised the USSR we wouldn't do it when they pulled out their troops.
2. We lack the ability to defend the areas with conventional forces and no one will win a nuclear war.
3. Russia has legitimate reasons to see our actions as deliberate threats to its security.
4. What do we gain by doing it? We could have constructed a regime where these countries traded primarily with the west and provided a military neutral zone between Russia and NATO. I believe that would have been a safer world.
As of July 5th Gallup was showing that the
stats or registered voters, which does fluctuate (but not by much) says that the party breakdown is:
With those numbers just think what Indies could do if they could organize! Form a 'party-like organisation like the DNC/RNC. But honest. The possibilities are limitless. The Independent voters could turn a lot of this around.
**Oh wait** It's okay. I'm back now. I don't know where a stupid idea like that came from Sorry.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@Amanda Matthews That would be great, if
That would be great, if we had an answer to election fraud. We don't because the legal system is as compromised as the political system is.
The kind of political party we need is the Black Panthers. They didn't focus exclusively on elections.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Who cares about election fraud if there
Aren't any honest parties or candidates to vote for? You've got to get people like Sanders started out being because you and me pissing and moaning about election fraud doesn't matter one damn bit unless we find some honest candidates who will fight TPTB on this issue both openly and loudly.. and who will fight against the Russia Russia Russia lies. As it stands now, both side are playing fast and loose with out right to honest elections.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@Amanda Matthews People have already
People have already pissed and moaned--if that's the way to put it--about election fraud, through a variety of legal actions, for the past 17 years, and they've never gotten actual justice nor even made progress that I can see. And the only political result I can see of such complaints is the Help America Vote Act, which bears the same relationship to clean elections that Bush's Clear Skies Initiative has to clean air.
Are you saying that if we got a politician to challenge things, which no one has done since Gore lost his Supreme Court case (he didn't fight well, but at least he fought), we would win a legal battle to stop election fraud? Or are you saying that if we got enough good politicians into Congress, they would take political action on the issue (I find the latter much less likely)?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Amanda Matthews But the more
But the more pressing issue, if you want to start an independent party, is: what are you going to tell people when you organize it? Are you going to tell them that we can make successful electoral challenges to one or both of the major parties? Because under the current conditions that may not be true. In fact, it probably isn't.
Election law itself is structured to prevent a third-party challenge. I don't like Jeff Weaver, but he was right when he said that if you run third party you have to spend most of your time suing in various states to get on the ballot (and that was confirmed by a Green party person, though I can't remember who at the moment--it wasn't Stein--they said that they habitually have to engage in a legal battle for 3/4 of their campaign time and then have only a few months to campaign. So of course they lose.)
Also the customs of how we run campaigns are established by the duopoly and enforced by them, keeping third party candidates out of the debates and off TV. Now maybe we don't have to worry about that because of indie media, but we lost even Amy Goodman last year, and Cenk Uygur was probably sheepdogging from the beginning. Anybody in the indie media who challenges our current system of cartel politics is going to come under attack. I'm not saying that to be cowardly, but to acknowledge that any indie media that supports a real electoral attack on the duopoly will come under fire, and that we will likely take heavy losses (in the sense of people suddenly ceasing to report honestly and starting to spout duopoly bullshit or create a blackout around third-party candidates). We are also not at all organized to maximize our effectiveness in this area.
Then there's outright fraud as in, well, you can basically think back to Hillary's primary campaign, because she put on a clinic. I called them the Baskin Robbins of Fraud because there were so many flavors I gave up counting. From so-called "granny farming" (blech, what a phrase) to changing the rules of caucuses to invalidate opposition delegates after the fact, to asking us to accept statistically improbable stories about coin flips done behind closed doors, to purging voters off the voter rolls either outright, or by changing their registration data without their consent, to closing polling places, to not staffing polling places. You can count on all of those, and possibly more, being mounted against any duopoly challengers who look like they're going to break through the initial obstacles of no media coverage and no ballot access.
These conditions present the following problem for the organizers of an independent party. They can either lie to the people they're trying to recruit into their party, like Cenk and the Justice Democrats currently are, and like the Draft Bernie people probably will if they ever get off the ground, or they can tell them the truth. If they lie to them, sooner or later that will become obvious. Probably after one or two elections. If they tell them the truth, people probably will become so discouraged that they won't join.
If we want an indie challenge to duopoly politics, we have to change conditions so such a party could succeed. And that's a hell of a task, and most people aren't up to even thinking in the ways necessary to approach it. Not because they're not smart enough, but because inventing the tactics requires that we really face the ugliness of the current situation rather than pretending to ourselves that what we've got here is a republic gone bad, instead of something that isn't a republic at all (nor a democracy, of course). Most people simply aren't up for giving up that illusion. They give up.
Whether that would have been true before Hope Vampire 2008 got to them I have no idea.
I'm up for trying to change conditions. I'm not simply naysaying here. But what I'm not willing to do again, ever, is engage in something that is, at any level, intrinsically pointless or fraudulent.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
PBS ran a series on the Russian interference with the election
this author destroys the narrative.
Guess what website wrote an expose on Browder's testimony? You get 1 guess.
This was the smoking gun that will put Trump away, right? Apparently not since there have been many other smoking guns that were supposed to be the one that is going to take him down.
Talk about creating unicorns. I'll patiently wait for the next smoking gun, thank you very much.
Oh hell yes!
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
@snoopydawg Oh, holy fucking shit.
Oh, holy fucking shit.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Spartacus
This feels like a Spartacus moment.
"I'm a Putin--"
"I'm a Putin puppet!"
"No, I'm a Putin puppet!"
"I'm a Putin puppet!"
@Strife Delivery Wouldn't you like to be
Wouldn't you like to be a puppet too?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
How does that fit with him
How does that fit with him saying that Russia hacked the election for Donald Trump?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
No problem!
When have the Democrats ever had a problem accusing Sanders of being or doing something they don't like when he is going along with the party line on the issue 99.999% of the time?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
@Dr. John Carpenter Logic and facts are
Logic and facts are for sissies and pantywaists. Strong meritorious people define reality as they wish to, moment to moment.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
yeah but corporate interests are people too
therefore our congress critters will vote for those ghost interests...
250 million dollar anti-Russia fund?
I thought that was the Clinton Foundation.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Violated the sanctity of our democracy?
Religious language with a slight bouquet of rape.
But unfortunately you can't violate something that doesn't exist.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
The light of the Dem projection - it blinds, it dazzles!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Ellen North It burns us! Nasty
It burns us! Nasty donors twisted it.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
ROFLMAO! But it was Her birthright present, Her Turn for preciousssssss power to gain precioussssss trillions in preciousssss bribes and sales of public resources and rights of law-making! We hates the Bern...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Ellen North We hates it
We hates it forever!
Actually, Gollum is worth 200 of her.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Yeah, Gollum was more of a petty thief and incidental murderer (who often ate what/who he killed) and wasn't actively trying to hand over the world to maniacal and destructive self-interests intent on totalitarian domination.
He just wanted a jewelry item he'd become rather attached to.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Ellen North Actually,
Actually, Gollum was trying to keep the Ring away from the evil overlord. He did want to be an evil overlord himself, too, because that's the nature of the Ring: to take whatever you are, whatever you want, and try to make it a reason to become an evil overlord. But interestingly enough, Gollum's main desires, when he fantasizes himself as that overlord, are having plenty to eat (Fish, fresh fish, fresh from the Sea, three times a day, precious!) and getting back at the people who have hurt him. Sort of like when the Ring tempts Sam, he sees his gardens spreading across the world, which doesn't exactly work well as totalitarian fantasies go!
Hobbits are the way Tolkien talks about the little guy--in particular, the rural little guy; he doesn't really have a way to talk about the urban little guy. When hobbits, or hobbit-like creatures like Gollum, fall under the sway of the Ring, they don't usually think of becoming a military dictator or amassing giant piles of wealth or creating torture dungeons. They think small, because they are small, and their fantasies (which the Ring exploits to corrupt them) are also small: having enough food to eat, food which tastes good, and being able to take revenge on those who hurt them. I suspect this is why Bilbo, and later Sam, are the only ones to ever voluntarily give up the Ring: because it doesn't have a lot to work with. These are people who have never thought of themselves as grand, and never have desired to. The worst thing Gollum fantasizes about when he imagines having the Ring back is tormenting Sam (Make him crawl, precious!) And much as it pains me to say it, when Gollum fantasizes about making Sam crawl, well, he actually has some reason to hate Sam, who has never treated him with anything but cruelty and contempt.
But Gollum is Frodo's (and Bilbo's) Shadow. And, as Ursula Le Guin brilliantly states in her comparison of C.S. Lewis and Tolkein, in the Lord of the Rings, it's the Shadow who fulfills the quest, affirming the initial choices of mercy that Bilbo and Frodo made when they refused to kill him. As she says, if you like the trilogy, you like Gollum.
Hillary smells more like the machinations of Isengard--Saruman and Wormtongue and their genetically-engineered armies and their rapid-fire industrialization.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Patriot Act Redux
What if all this domestic turmoil has nothing to do with with the kabuki of Russia interfering in the US elections?
It's simply not reasonable to believe that Congress was totally duped by this absurdity. That defies reality. So, we reach for Occam's Razor.
Congress must be "in" on it. They are voting in their own personal interest, as they always do — but this time in unison, Democrat and Republican, alike. Behold the key anomaly. When was the last time that happened?
Every time the Neocons wanted to advance Empire's Shock and Awe, and unleash fabulous wealth transfers into the military industrial cloud — Republicans and Democrats have voted together, unanimously (except for the hold-outs, whom we will vilify for eternity). The Patriot Act. the Invasion of Iraq — and now the coming attack on Iran to secure the spread of Greater Israel across the Middle East.
And no President can ever unwind this policy — not now and not in the future. These sanctions are permanent.
From the Neocon point of view, it makes perfect sense. The only way they can stop the rise of a multi-polar world in Eurasia, and shore up the PetroDollar, is to embroil the entire Eastern Hemisphere in a hot war. Europe is being dragged in, China cannot move forward building civilization's infrastructure to the north and west, Asian trade is set to be impacted by a wall of global conflict, throwing their economies into turmoil.
And how do the Neocons coerce Congress to vote just so? Well, we know that the NSA has collected and filed every single private moment of their family's lives for analysis. Along with every unethical or illegal moment in their professional life. That applies to all of us, true enough, but there is tremendous scrutiny of those who are "temporarily" in power by the Permanent government authorities. We also know what will happen to those who did not go along. Within months, the American people will hate them. They will be demonized, and no congressperson wants to experience that. Most important, there are rewards even beyond the lifetime income jackpot they win when they are elected to congress. They and their donors will be protected when the Big Asset Stripping finally arrives — which waits right around the corner. All businesses will become defense contractors as all the nation's revenues are poured into war spending inside the US. That's the only "infrastructure spending" we can expect to see.
We've been on the NaziCon schedule this whole time. It took "Seventeen Intelligence Agencies" to pull the trigger.
That's how it happened.
____________________
The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
If it's war
and aggression and theft and murder, I can't recall a time in my 60+ years when most of Congress (overwhelmingly) didn't approve of it. I think even the first attack on Saddam had a handful on Congress vote against it.
The idea that we can have an NSA acting as it does AND democracy is a lunatic notion.
Orwell: Where's the omelette?
Parkhomenko is definitely Russian/Slavic speak.
Adam Parkhomenko, former Clinton aide and founder of the Ready for Hillary PAC, tweeted
=========================================
So, still another attack on the Bernster by the neo-warlust idiots. ZZZZZZZZZZZZZ(dozing off). He and Rand Paul, talk about strange bedfellows??! Rec'd!!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
I knew it!
Marxist fellow traveler, closet pinko...wtf ...you say the Soviet Union doesn't exist anymore? They are a capitalist kleptocracy now...oh the humanity.
The Very Best Reason
The very best reason to vote against the Russia sanctions deal is that we are punishing Russia for a crime they did not commit - there is no credible public evidence that the Russian government intentionally interfered in our election. Hence, these sanctions are beyond despicable - and antagonize both Russia and Europe in the process.
https://consortiumnews.com/2017/07/24/intel-vets-challenge-russia-hack-e...
https://medium.com/@markfmccarty/whats-left-of-russiagate-are-we-down-to...
Mark F. McCarty