God help me! - KKK a leftist terrorist organization? - Answers to Bruh1 diary questions ?

The longer I read the "news", the less I am informed and the more I am confused and finally end up with a big headache and getting really physically sick.

I am a low information non-voter (because I hadn't the courage yet to become an US citizen). I feel so sick these days and so discouraged, because I will never understand the most basic things, like for example, who is a racist and who is a leftist and who is right-winger and who a libertarian either left-wing or right-wing nutcase, or who is just a mess of all the categories I mentioned.

There is no way to overlook the claim in various comments here during the last days, but also during the last months, that certain people on the gos have indicated that certain people here at the C99p are racists. There have been several indications that a lot of people here felt insulted and wounded by those accusations. Like old scars that start hurting, when you touch them with the same weapons that caused the scars in the first place.

This is really painful to watch and destructive to all of us. I would like to get factual answers. So, I ask for old sources and links that prove either sides' claims. Racial tensions eat up on peoples' souls on all sides' of the aisles. This has to stop and needs to be overcome.

What triggered me to write this out in such "in your face" kind of manner?

Well, it was this diary I read first today on the gos: Trump supporter's lies about the KKK are standard GOP talking points.

It's not the diary itself, but what was quoted in there. It's the exchange Van Jones had with a certain Mr. Jeffrey Lord. I couldn't believe what I read and listened to and I can't get over the fact that Van Jones didn't scolded Jeffrey Lord much stronger than his answer to Jeffrey Lord's claim deserved, the claim that the KKK is a leftist terrorist organization. Van Jones said "absurd". That's not enough of a counterpunch to Lord's claims. Here is the interview Van Jones had with Jeffrey Lord:
[video:https://youtu.be/mUIs5K2Snpk]

JONES: The Klan is a terrorist organization that has killed --

LORD: A leftist terrorist organization.

[snip] JONES: What difference does it make if you call them leftists? They kill people. They don't play games with that.

LORD: You're right. You don't hide and say that's not part of the base of the Democratic Party. That has been -- they were the military arm, the terrorist arm of the Democratic Party, according to historians. For God sakes, read your history.

[snip] JONES: The Klan kill people by race….

LORD: And they did it -- they did it to further the progressive agenda. Hello?

JONES: That is, first of all, so absurd.

LORD: It is not absurd.

JONES: The Democratic Party of the south of the old days was a racist party. And you are correct, sir. They were a violent party. You were correct, sir.

LORD: How do you think we got Woodrow Wilson elected?

(CROSSTALK)

JONES: Hold on a second. That's not the Democratic Party of today. So, what are you talking about that for? You play these games --

LORD: It is the Democratic Party of today. The Democratic Party of today divides by race.

That a guy could say something like this on CNN is so unbelievable. I wonder if that was broadcasted on CNN international. I wonder even more who of the CNN international viewers in Europe really would understand what this is all about. It's even hard for me to stay focused and read that diary to the end. What this Mr. Jeffrey Lord guy said equates in my mind to someone in Germany saying the Nazis were left-wing socialists mass murderers. Because apparently if there is the word "socialist" in a name like in the German Nazi Party, the "The National Socialist German Workers' Party (NSDAP)', which evolved out of the German Workers Party, it must be left-wing. From here:

Origins in the German Worker's Party:
In 1919, Anton Drexler, Gottfried Feder and Dietrich Eckart formed the German Worker's Party (GPW) in Munich. The German Army was worried that it was a left-wing revolutionary group and sent Adolf Hitler, one of its education officers, to spy on the organization. Hitler discovered that the party's political ideas were similar to his own - he approved of Drexler's German nationalism and anti-Semitism but was unimpressed with the way the party was organized.
...
The Party Gets a New Name:
In April, 1920, Hitler advocated that the party should change its name to the National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP). Hitler had always been hostile to socialist ideas, especially those that involved racial or sexual equality. However, socialism was a popular political philosophy in Germany after the First World War. This was reflected in the growth in the German Social Democrat Party (SDP), the largest political party in Germany.

Hitler, therefore redefined socialism by placing the word 'National' before it. He claimed he was only in favour of equality for those who had "German blood." Jews and other "aliens" would lose their rights of citizenship, and immigration of non-Germans should be brought to an end.

So this German history with regards to the word socialism and it being used by leftist and by right-wing parties, seems to be the basis of today's messing around with left-wing and right-wing "socialist" ideologies and playing "fuck my brain" with it from some right-wing (ie clearly racist) ideologues in the US. Can that be true?
From Reifowitz diary, it seems to be really the case:

What’s really important here isn’t that a Trump supporter is making these kinds of statements, but rather that they represent what Republicans across the board have been doing for years, namely connecting contemporary progressivism with past racism espoused by old-time Democrats. We have elected officials like Republican State Senator Stephen Martin of Virginia claiming: "The fact is that both the KKK and Planned Parenthood are creations of the Democratic Party."

Additionally, we have the National Black Republican Association emphasizing the Klan and its Democratic Party ties, as well as conservative talk show hosts like Wisconsin’s Dan O’Donnell doing the same. The point is, Jeffrey Lord was far from the first to do so. Oh, and is anyone surprised that Rush Limbaugh defended Lord, both on Trump and on his claims about the KKK and Democrats?

See, how it's not only a "Black Republican Association" but a "National" one, like Hitler put the word "National" in front of the German Workers Party and the word "Socialist" into it.

I remember how upset I was when I saw the first tweet of a shit-head right-winger, who claimed the Socialists in Germany were were Nazis. Well I didn't know that the Nazis killed their own kind in the concentration and labor camps then. You know that kind of stuff gets my blood boiling.

Reifowitz ended his diary with the sentence:

...we must push back against the constant lies issued by Republicans en masse—and this goes beyond Jeffrey Lord or even Trump—about the KKK, racism, and progressives. They lie about the past in order to stop our country from moving in a more progressive direction going forward.

Now, don't tell me that some Democrats lie about "KKK, racism and progressives". My feeling is that nobody is talking like it, but some harbor such suspicions.

Wow. So much for that.

Now to my next issue, reading over at the gos. Bruh1 had a diary up: Questions posed to Black voters from a Black voter. He specifically asked for responses from black voters only. And it is interesting that known black kossacks didn't comment on his diary.

Here are his questions:

1. I recently ran into a Black voter who thinks Sanders is a conservative. She wasn't the first to say this to me. Do you think I should not tell the voter that Sanders is not a conservative? Why do you think they believe he is a conservative?
2. Are you okay with the term low information voter if it's a applied to White Reagan Democrats? What about Muslims who vote Trump? What about Latinos?
3. Are you okay with the book "What's the Matter with Kansas"? If so, why?
4. Do you question the decisions of Black Republicans to vote Republican?
5. Recently , it has been asserted that the IL Democratic Party sent flyers that would mislead black voters into believing Clinton is the only choice on the ballot. Ignoring the neutrality issue, are you okay with these flyers ? If so , why ? If not, why?
6, I've met older Black church going voters who have a problem with Sanders being Jewish and non religious . Do you have a problem with this ? If so , why ? If not, why ?
7. Do you believe that class issues are unconnected to race issues? If so ,why? If not why ?
8. how do you intend to put pressure on Clinton if she becomes President to enact pro -Black policies ?
9. Do you think black politicians have failed or succeeded at helping Black communities ? If so, why ? If not, why?

As I am white, I won't respond. But may be I forward that to my black son. You may answer here, if you want to.

Ok, I am having a yuuuge headache. So, I am letting that go.

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Comments

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'

'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'

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mimi's picture

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mimi's picture

that's how he shows it on twitter.

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Big Al's picture

would even debate such a scumbag. Other than to get on TV, make more money, cause more bullshit. Obviously smears, narratives and flat out lies are spreading fast from all sides during this crazy "political season". It's really ridiculous.
What are we even talking about as a society? Certainly not what we should be talking about.
Not directed at you mimi, thanks for bringing this up. I just searched "is the KKK a left wing organization" and all that came up were hundreds of articles debating how some Trump supporter said that to Van Jones and whether it is or isn't true.
Uh, no. Of course Jones wouldn't challenge that.

Those questions from Daily Kos are interesting. I'm white too so they're not directed at me. But introspection is usually a good thing. It should go far deeper than that in the end. It's not about blacks or whites or Hispanics, it's about a political system that serves the very rich and the rest of us can go to hell.

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thanatokephaloides's picture

It's not about blacks or whites or Hispanics,

..... or men or women,

it's about a political system that serves the very rich and the rest of us can go to hell.

Divide et impera. Oldest trick in the book.

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

shaharazade's picture

I like brul1 a lot. One thing I'm not going to do is get involved with the racist issue ongoing war at dkos. I spent my time on that wheel and am now aware that I'm a racist sexist white privileged bigot who has no right to voice any opinion about poc or poor people. I'll take on the your a sexist as #WhichHillary is a code for witch, insanity as I'm a woman. That site has very carefully stacked the deck with imo conservative AA's and white people who fully support the racist, elitist staus quo. Great poster from Drake. Thanks mimi. Nice to find a post by you in this full house.

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gulfgal98's picture

I just went there to encourage bruh1 because he is asking for a dialog that most whites cannot participate in, but may we can learn from. No one has rec'd or responded to my comment, so it is probably dead.

I believe that it is important to our democratic (small d) process to learn and hopefully understand where such misconceptions are coming about. It takes a lot of courage for anyone to ask these questions, and I applaud you for doing so, bruh1.

I had invited bruh1 here some time ago, but never got a response. I believe that he is a very thoughtful commenter who knows how to ably dissect bullshit. The guy is very smart so I know he can handle whatever they are going to throw at him. Sixsixsixtysix also posted a similar diary a short while ago. He is also AA. There is something else going on with a significant number of AA's at dkos who are using the questions of Sanders supporters to accuse us of a lot of unsavory things. Sadly, only an AA can ask those questions over there. I will say that I found dopper's diary on those questions very sensitive to Sanders supporters and insightful. So I am grateful to him for writing it as it was written in good faith even though he supports Clinton.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

JayRaye's picture

I would never honor Hillary by calling her a Witch because Witches believe in "do no harm."
Hillary simply doesn't qualify to be a Witch:

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Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons

mimi's picture

(by that I mean accusations that some here, who I consider and believe are leftist, socialists and independent progressive environmentalists and green Party followers), are racists. You haven't heard this very openly, but it is there.

This is probably an issue I will never touch again, and I will pretend I didn't see it. Which I think is quite bad, because it disturbs me a lot, but it's probably just my own personal "problem". My hunch is that many from over there, who don't like the people over here, just can't handle the amount of sarcasm and open mockery in many poster's free expression here.

Here it's their way of fighting lies and propaganda and in my opinion is part of free speech and free expression. For some over there, it seems to be "Dreck" and "RW racism". I have to admit when I started to realize that, which was not the 2007/8 primaries (didn't read that much at that time), as for many of you apparently it was, but may be only two to three years ago.

I read Chauncey DeVega's diary The Republican Party's Ku Klux Klan 'problem' is much bigger than just Donald Trump, which puts the accusations of racism squarely in the Republican's side.

There are some people, who can't handle DeVega's diaries, who are otherwise dedicated Democratic Party (and now also Sanders) activists. I can handle them (though I know how they in larger quantities get under the (white) skin). But he doesn't address in how far such accusations come also from within the Democratic Party, of course well hidden and not openly admitted, against the left wing and socialist wing of the Democrats or Independents.

Yet enough people here have voiced their sentiments of being offended by the attack and hostile attitudes from some corners as being white privileged or even open racists from Democrats.

So, is this issue of racist accusations in fact the reason for the "splitting up" of many here from the gos? Or can it be "handled" by knowing it might have been part of it, but is not the main reason and the best way of "getting over this" is in ignoring those accusations?

All I can say, that those accusations are painful to watch, but then I get used to them or have been used to similar accusations for such a long time, that I try not to bother about it. (Which I don't succeed in very well). It's just very depressing.

I don't expect you to comment. I know it's an issue you do not want to talk about. I guess it's the last time I say something like it.

And then I hope there will be so many writers here now, who provide "real issue" related diaries, which makes me forget about all of it. So great to see Dallas Doc here. Smile

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TheOtherMaven's picture

IMHO some people over there have become all-out (or all-in) Social Justice Warriors, seeing (and even seeking) offense where none was intended. It's very difficult to deal with people like that, since anything you say can and will be used against you.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

When it's just bits and bytes on a computer screen, it can be difficult to judge intent. I've been on both sides of that wall. For example, that phrase "Social Justice Warriors" being co-opted by GamerGaters and others who feel like society is a bit too diverse for their tastes. I think I'd probably go with Professional Butthurt Patrol for the types you're talking about, but that's just me.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

How well does this match up with the "Butthurt Patrol"? http://www.lisaescott.com/forum/2009/11/25/are-they-injustice-collector

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

thanatokephaloides's picture

From your excellent linked article, Ms. Maven:

10. The phrase "walking on eggshells" describes life with an injustice collector.

How many times have I used the phrase "walking on eggshells" (sometimes with nitroglycerin, sometimes without) to describe recent life on the Kos?

Nail. Head. Smite.

Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

shaharazade's picture

they do not support or see the correlation between social justice and the agenda and policy offered by either party. hillary may state that free education will not end racism but it is certainly a step toward ending the rampant economic inequality we are all facing. Privatizing everything and making all public programs for profit does nothing but widen the gap and is especially onerous to people of color and the middle class not to mention shutting the poor right out of the nasty neoliberal global equation.

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if you even disagree with some small thing, or even a major area where you're not agreeing, but pose no threat, your disagreement still becomes a threat.

Then they'll slap you with a label as they ramp up the name calling. Anything they can think of to use as a negative label gets accused/labeled, and then they try to pummel people into submission (agree, and spout their BS as well, or be quiet/go away) because if you're not completely in agreement, you are not with them, so you must be against them.

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mimi's picture

their poison again. Dinesh D'Souza has a new movie out there. This is the trailer. "Who are these Democrats?"
"Hillary's America"
[video:https://youtu.be/r7e6gLht6OQ]
Dinesh D'Souza is a reckless hate inciting film-maker. I hate this guy. The release of this piece of shit at this time is equally maddening.

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