Why just saying 'No' will never, ever be enough
kos: Policy is useless right now. We don’t need any message beyond “NO!”
The NY Times says the Dems are The New Party of No.
It's certainly a convenient strategy if your objective is not to change and reform.
If your objective is to have a phony McResistance based completely on empty symbolism, then "No" is just as good as any other word.
Economist Mark Blyth sums up what is wrong with this strategy in the video below better than I ever could.
Basically, everything is wrong with the strategy of just saying no and leaving policy for another time.
Markos and the rest of the Democratic Party establishment have forgotten the purpose of politics isn't about "your team". Politics is about your values, and those values are reflected in your policies, not your words. In case the lessons of the 2016 election was lost on anyone, no one believes the platitudes of politicians anymore.
It means Democrats are defending a status quo that most of the American public, both Democrats and Republicans, have been in agreement for years that it needs to change. However, only Republicans have offered a vision of change. It's a terrible vision, but it's the only alternative to an intolerable status quo.
The election of such an unpopular and unqualified leader is a symptom of something even more dangerous than Trump: a systemic rot at the heart of our national politics. Trump was elected because a record number of eligible voters stayed home, including some 2 million African Americans who voted for Obama in 2012.
Ordinary Americans understand what the pundits and political operatives living in the D.C. bubble fail to comprehend: The system is rigged. Our national politics is controlled by a duopoly of corporate-owned Republicans and Democrats. To be sure, with the Democrats you get more reasonable rhetoric, the occasional grilling of a Wall Street villain on C-SPAN, and even a few votes of conscience by lawmakers in safe seats. But in the end, both national parties make sure that the interests of corporations will be advanced while the interests of the poor and working class are brushed aside. Business owners win over workers; creditors win over debtors; war profiteers win over the safety and security of everyone on the planet.
The first thing that establishment Democrats did after the election debacle is call for unity. But unity for what? Partisan politics?
Hillary Clinton and Paul Krugman were quick to compare a modern progressive agenda to magical unicorns.
The Democratic Party spends a lot of time and effort dividing and atomizing it's various identity groups, a critical function of identity politics, so any call for actual solidarity should be taken with a grain of salt.
Establishment figureheads are calling for Democrats to unify behind a common agenda, but it’s an old agenda with amorphous values, one that is more focused on defeating the right than on creating an economy and society that lifts up all people...
Third Way’s president, Jonathan Cowan, is open about his intent to steer the party away from the likes of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders and back toward an uninspiring, Republican-lite, status quo agenda (which makes sense given that a major component of Third Way’s budget comes from donors on Wall Street).
Many establishment Democrats have tried to paint Sanders-style progressive populism as some sort of white privilege. The reality is that economics is a big reason why 2 million African Americans who voted for Obama didn't vote for Hillary.
if you consider the fates of ordinary people, we did have a depression. According to a Federal Reserve study, African Americans and Latinos who graduated from four-year colleges lost 60 percent and 72 percent of their wealth, respectively, after the 2008 financial crisis.
It's ironic that while the Democratic Party has bent over backwards to deny the reality of the working-class' economic hardship, the nearly hopelessly corrupt political system, and the inability of neoliberal capitalism to fix any of this, the strongest calls for change in the capitalist's status quo are coming from the right.
Trump may be an unrepentant liar, but his right-wing fans responded to the insults he hurled at Wall Street. What level of deep intellectual poverty has the center-left sunk to that Trump managed to seize populist economics from them?
There was a time, not so very long ago, when it was widely accepted that the job of the left was to explain how free-market capitalism is bad for the poor and bad for social cohesion more generally.... Markets and money should exist to serve people, not the other way round. The importance of democratic socialism is that it uses the power of the ballot box to assert the will of people over the will of capital.
Jeremy Corbyn aside, one of the tragedies of the leftwing abandonment of its traditional suspicion of capitalism is that the far right has now filled the vacuum....What a topsy-turvy political world we now inhabit. Squint your eyes and it almost looks as though the left has become the right, and the right has become the left.
On one level this is a golden opportunity the left is missing. Any anti-capitalist message coming from the left that could be used to create solidarity with hard-pressed workers on the right, gets filtered and blocked by the neoliberal political establishment.
That leaves frustrated workers on right to find their own answers to the obvious failures of capitalism, usually through scapegoats.
On another level, this is a terrible tragedy for the left.
As Mark Blyth explained, if you don't offer a vision of the future, people will look to the past. And who "owns" the past? The right-wing.
The right "owns" the glory days before globalism and foreigners.
The left, unless it can offer a bright future, is fighting with one hand tied behind its back. It's a punching bag.
For the left to offer that brighter future, it must comes to grips with the failures of the present. To do that the left must confront the causes of those failures, the causes of which just happen to be large campaign contributors to the Democratic Party.
Comments
This and race.
The reality is that economics is a big reason why 2 million African Americans who voted for Obama didn't vote for Hillary.
In 2008, anyone on dkos that suggested black people were voting for Obama because he was black got called racist. How dare we suggest that black people would vote based on race. I hate dailykos and the people on it. It isn't good for one's health. and Kos is a jerk whose head won't fit through a door.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Son, be a Neo-lib...
You'll be a success...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOtMizMQ6oM]
Sorry, but for some reason I feel the need to invoke good art to combat bad ideas.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Being the Party of No is treason when Republicans do it and
great strategy when Democrats do it. Got it.
I few things dislike about bots more than their double standards and hypocrisy.
That wasn't my point at all
Was I that unclear?
My point was that the best defense against Trump and the GOP was a positive and believable alternative vision of the future that is both progressive and helps all of the working class, both white and minorities.
NO, I did not direct my comments at you, gjohnsit.
My post was a reaction to Democrats now being the Party of No, as your essay stated. I know what Dembots were saying about Republicans being the Party of No. I predict, though, that Dembots will be just fine with being the Party of No now that Democrats are doing it. My post was a comment on the hypocrisy and double standards of principle-free Dembots. It was not a comment on your politics, at all.
That's what we need
We've got to start being more solution focused instead of continually venting against our fellow 99%ers. Most "Dembots" are part of the 99% as are most Trumpsters. There are plenty of common wants among all of us that are threatened by those billionaires who are trying to take over.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Great essay and love Mark Blyth.
So, so true. A lot easier for a TV addled population to fall for quick simple answers which don't fix anything, on both sides.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
I actually responded to that comment
as below:
In Bob Swern's diary later, I made this comment, once again referencing kos' assertion that the Democrats do not need policy. The Democratic party Amen chorus is so out of touch with real people and their problems as long as the donor money keeps flowing.
As much as I hate the Republican party, at least they stand FOR something, even if it is repulsive. The Democrats are cowards. They stand for NOTHING.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
In addition to Hillary not having a policy to run
except that she wasn't Trump, I think a lot of the blame goes to Barack. If candidate Obama had become president Obama then I doubt the 2 million Blacks who voted for him wouldn't have stayed home.
He had such a huge mandate when he became president, but instead of helping out Main Street he helped Wall Street.
And instead of ending the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq he continued both and started two new ones.
People saw that the people who were responsible for their economic conditions were the ones who got bailed out, weren't prosecuted and they continued doing whatever the hell they wanted to.
How many Blacks lost their homes after he became president?
Plus he didn't speak out against the cops killing unarmed Blacks.
He should go down in history as the president who could have if had only tried.
And every person who dies in this war of terror under Trump can be blamed on Barry.
I read this diary that joe wrote a few years ago about both his and Bush's war crimes when he laid out the case for impeaching them.
An oldie but goodie
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/12/18/1348431/-A-decent-nation-would-...
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
@snoopydawg Great comment. I get
Great comment. I get frustrated by all the people who call the people who voted for Trump as stupid, deplorables. All the voters in the rust belt that voted for Trump were not stupid. Obama made good speeches, but failed to deliver on much of anything except helping the rich and powerful become more so. Millions of Americans have lost their jobs, homes and standard of living. Many are deeply in debt with no way out. Obama lied so Hillary with her nothing campaign could not and did not ride to the presidency on his coattails. Sanders connected with many of the Americans betrayed by the DINO party. He could have been a contender, but TPTB could not allow such person in the Oval office. That left Trump with his lies. Like Obama, Trump offered hope and change, however Trump's hope is vanished and his change is a kick in the teeth to all Americans and much of the world.
Yep, it's the same ole game that they play on us
After 8 years of suffering under the Bush administration, it's going to be 4-8 years suffering under Trump.
And after he leaves office tptb will run another one who will promise us that this time if we vote for them then they will do the opposite of what Trump did and then turn around and do the same things.
That's what Pelosi and her merry congress members ran on in 2006. Vote for us and we will stop what this administration is doing. And then once they get elected they will tell us that they can't just do it now for some insane reason.
I should have learned my lesson after that happened, but Barry seemed so honest. I got over him after he voted for the FISA bill that he promised he would filibuster and then saw who he put in his cabinet.
I liked Bernie's economic policies, but I knew that nothing would change on the foreign policy front.
And he's proven me right. He's out on his unity jaunts talking about his economic plan, but has he said much of anything on Trump's foreign policies that have seen more civilians being killed?
If he and Warren are supposed to be our progressive hope, then why didn't they have the guts to talk about what Barack's drone program was doing to the civilians in the Middle East?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
The mind that man has.... it's quite... something!?
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
The Democratic Party is the party of Pete Peterson--
just check out their most popular key note speaker (WJC) at their annual shindigs!
I don't expect anything to change, anytime soon, since it appears that many in the Base of the Party never tire of being manipulated and/or spreading their propaganda.
Mollie
"I think dogs are the most amazing creatures--they give unconditional love. For me, they are the role model for being alive."--Gilda Radner
"If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die, I want to go where they went."--Will Rogers
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Here's Cornel West on Sanders and white privilege.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMSBq1wVxOs width:500 height:300]
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
23,925 signatures at this time.
So, I wonder if anything will ever happen in this country.
Draft Bernie signatures up almost 50% overnight.
Just signed it and it's now at 33,756 signatures.
This obvious solution has been the elephant in the room since Election Day, when the two worst, most hated, distrusted candidates of all-time ensured a vacuum in the political world. Very few in this country are happy about where we are politically.
Bernie's humongous presence has been filling that void, and growing stronger with each passing day he is out separate from the disintegrating Democratic party, criticizing their stances and efforts, and as he continues to call for the same platform he did as a candidate. More people than ever are gravitating toward him, as he is the only adult in the room filled with partisan, beholden frauds on both sides.
I'm interested, almost above all at this point, in rupturing the duopoly.
As far as I can see, this gives us the best chance to do exactly that.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Evidence Based Discussions
The gold standard, in the world of the internet, is data. Raw unadulterated data is thought to be the best support for any argument.
Data is good ... but: The measure of excellence in the physical sciences is not so easily capsulized. When trying to convince another: "This is a more 'correct' approach." data, per se, does not suffice. Scientists are suspicious of data, particularly if the data seems to confirm their notion of what should happen. We always need a reason (and reason does not come from data, per se) to trust the data.
If this represents a "trigger" event. If indeed the sleeping masses are awakening to the reality that there was a best, yet missed, outcome, then the numbers on that site will follow a particular trajectory. Ah, but that trajectory can only attain if the foundations of "Seven Degrees of Separation" are met. If, this Draft Bernie petition is too isolated from the general population, then it's count will be of zero value as that data will tell us nothing.
Like everyone here at c99p, my degree of separation from some very famous people is significantly less than seven, but yet I have no real connection to those very famous people. Yet, a critical event could be close to occurring ...
It is a nice thought (even if somewhat delusional) that something might yet happen to turn aside the growing tsunami of stupidity. In the dynamics of human behavior the phase-space for "stupid" seems to have the greatest number of degrees of freedom. In English that would be: There are a greater number of ways to be stupid than there are ways to be smart.
the Party officers and candidates
And the Party officers and candidates those large campaign contributors want and get.
Debbie Wasserman-Schultz and Hillary Clinton respectively, for example.
Will Kos ever confront these epic fails and their underlying causes? I doubt it. In fact, I think he is one of those causes. He certainly seems to choose to keep those of this ilk close enough to him while kicking us who ask inconvenient questions out the door.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
My Kid told me a DWS joke yesterday
DWS is what you get when you boil Clinton down until only the corruption is left.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I'll beg to differ on this point gjohnsit
the D's haven't forgotten shit, from wjc to pelosi the only value they chose to believe in
is the size of their bank acct, foundation, etc.etc.etc.
Markos and the rest of the Democratic Party establishment have forgotten the purpose of politics isn't about "your team". Politics is about your values, and those values are reflected in your policies, not your words. In case the lessons of the 2016 election was lost on anyone, no one believes the platitudes of politicians anymore.
The D's are a party of "we can't do this" "we can't do that"
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
and keeping the powder dry n/t
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
Always thought that was a horrible metaphor for several reasons
Powder being kept dry assumes that there is no resupply. Which suggests that there's only so much justice you can have, because it needs to be rationed carefully. Amazing how the rich get so much more of it, and they don't seem to be the ones being shot at.
Second, this kind of thinking was why the US M-16 failed so spectacularly upon initial issue in Vietnam. Surplus WW2 and Korea Powder was used in the new weapon against the suggestions of the designer, which burned much dirtier than the finicky weapon could handle, resulting in the infamous jams and disasters.
And finally, stockpiling lots of powder in one place tends to result in this.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7ssUivM-eM]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
No powder
I don't think they (Dems in congress) had any powder to begin with.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
This is a finely structured presentation of the situation.
Thanks for that.
I'm getting a little tired of listening to myself. But I must say it one more time. Can someone explain to me why the Left, as represented here and elsewhere (everywhere but that troll incubator at Daily Kos) — why the Left cannot see that FDR Democrats won a history-altering victory in November 2016?
Maybe folks should consider where they would be now if they had not utterly destroyed the Democratic Party and reduced it to rubble. 2016 was your last chance to strike a lethal blow to the Establishment, and it has left them reeling. Listen, they know they cannot put this party back together again. They are faking it until you finally accept their delusion of power as reality. You know you are not going back to that. America knows, workers know, Millennials know, Independents know that there is no way these asshats will ever call the shots again and drag you under the waves once and for all. Even the Neocons abandoned the Democratic blast site. Those greedy, soulless losers are finished.
I am astonished the Democratic Establishment can get out of bed in the morning. They are the only people in the United States of America who don't know they have no future.
Stop being coy and waiting to be rescued. Tell the Democratic losers that you are forming strong alliances across America and mobilizing to defeat them if they should dare to run candidates in 2018. Tell them exactly what you are going to do to them and tell them today. Tell them every day in LTEs. Demand that they step down immediately because the American people are taking over. And mean it. Do one thing every day to secure their total defeat in 2018. Hound them. Believe me, history is behind you on this, and so are the people.
They will slink off at some point.
And then you can be kind. They are lost and broken. I pity them. It is excruciating to watch them writhing in their final delusions. It would be compassionate to ignore them for the rest of their lives. They should never be allowed to participate in politics on the Left, again.
Don't be afraid of the Republicans. They are giving Americans an eyeful, and the People are feeling the same kind of shame that Adam and Eve felt when they realized they were naked before the world. The entire nation is enduring a banquet of consequences. They are seeing things they were never supposed to see, and they will never look at American politics — or the mainstream media — the same way again. Wall Street's days are numbered, as well.
The world has a very specific heartbeat this year. Can't feel it? Keep an eye on France. Self-determination is ascendent.
Only in America
I saw a comment somewhere recently to the effect that in any other country when a party lost like this, the leadership would resign in shame.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I don't know if "shame" is the motivator for resigning
…but you are absolutely right. Mature statesmen bow out when the people decide against their leadership. That happened just last year in the UK after the Brexit vote:
Hillary and her hangers-on need to be gone. They've been screwing the Party up for years and years. Enough already.
No matter how hard we try
we simply cannot get rid of them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
They're not really saying no,
they're actually saying yes. Yes to war, yes to imperialism, yes to corporate health care, yes to wall street, and yes to everything that helps the oligarchy. Wasn't it just a few years back the republican party was being called the party of no?
http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/15/gop-fights-to-rebrand-the-party-of-no/
Bingo!
As per usual, you hit that nail on the head, Big Al.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@Big Al about 4 years ago, Glenn
about 4 years ago, Glenn Greenwald was in Columbus OH. Maybe it was 3 years ago, don't remember. He said that he was getting more heat from the left than the right.
and he said something at the time that was an insight for me. Namely, that both parties are for the same thing and they only fight over side line issues
this is not totally obvious to many of us. The establishment of both parties work for the 1%
we would not have known this so well without Bernie and leaning how bad the Clinton's were back in the 90's. What happened was the relentless attacks by the republicans provided the cover for their evil deeds.
sad to say that my wife is still stuck on how Hillary was treated badly and that Trump is the worst thing that ever happened to USA. I agree with the second point, but it was the democratic party that lost the election. And we see them going down the same path of kissing ass to the oligarchs
recent article in The Intercept that past presidents didn't go off to wealthy heaven
Here is a story from a friend who is now 80 years old. He went to a Catholic military HS which was near the White House. He got off the train and walked to school. One day, there was Truman out for his morning walk. For the rest of the year about 2 to 3 times per week he would walk part way with him. There was no security detail around him.
That is but one example of what has happened in our security state, or police state where the odds of being killed by a terrorist are less than lightning but our constitution is being sacrificed for our "safety" while the earth burns....
the Jimmy Dore segment a couple of days ago of Bernie and Tom Perez were on CNN, or some show and Perez was stone faced when Bernie spoke. He doesn't buy in.
On our local, Columbus OH, low power FM radio station this afternoon they played a rally with Bernie for Keith Ellison for DNC chair. It was before the election. Bernie was no holds barred on the democrats failure.
Don't know how much longer the establishment can hold out.
My Father, years and years ago...
Sat opposite Clement Attlee on the Tube, when both were going home. Attlee was by himself, just reading papers. No fuss.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
That's why the silence on policy
In reading Wikileaks, I realized that Hillary could not speak to policy, as her policies were and are corporate right wing. It is the same reason Perez can't speak to specific policy. They have no other choice other than appeal to various versions of identity politics or personal smear.
And this is why democratic law makers are pissed off that they are being challenged on supporting single player or medicare for all.
On target, MrWebster
This precisely why we must hammer both parties of MFA/SP. As I stated in my 5 May essay: One issue. One Cause. NOW
Indeed. Health care is thee issue to "radicalize" the base
It is amazing how town hall after town hall, democratic party reps are being boo'ed over their refusal to support Medicare for all or single payer. Michael Tracey has been reporting from town halls that Russia was dominating them. I figure this is just mindless partisans and organized party hacks pushing the national strategy of attacking republicans over Putin.
But you are right. Health care is not some abstraction, but here and now. People don't wake up worried what emails Putin has hacked. I was using an provider born out of Obamacare and it went under. More money for less coverage with new provider.
I try not to go to TOP except to read headlines and get an idea of the democratic establishment agenda is through the subjects being written about by their front pagers. Sure enough, in the face of the catastrophe of Trumpcare there was the obligatory and shallow reminder of Rusaia!! Democrats will drive that issue to their electoral doom.
Indeed make health care thee issue of the day. It is the tip of the spear.
No! No! No!
Now why does that sound familiar?
"No! No! No! I don' wanna! You can't make me!" (Wails, lies on the floor kicking their feet and holding their breath until their face turns red.)
Oh, yeah. Two-year-olds. That's toddler behavior.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
peace love and understanding
let's work on this
Exactly
Saying No is a tactic, not a strategy. At this point, the DP is morally bankrupt and compromised, so there is no position they can hold with firm conviction without putting a burr under some donor's seat. If their strategy is to offer the same crap like they did during the Bush years and expect people to buy it again, they're only fooling themselves.
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
Exhibit A: Nancy Pelosi
When asked whether the Democrats should have single payer as part of its 2018 platform given its overwhelming popularity.
"No."
And that is all, folks.
they can't say why not, though
if we can force them to give us MFA, it's a start.
perhaps the opportunity is here.
how do we get the dems in particular to stand for MFA?
right now, not in some 2018 campaign speech.