Submitted by PriceRip on Tue, 03/07/2017 - 11:13pm
If you give me a choice between taking $1000 from twenty million families or hitting 50,000 people who shuffle money around all day, I'll take it from the people who shuffle money.
I would be interested to know now many here would agree this thought is consistent with their point of view.
It doesn't tell me anything about why we're taking the $1000. It explains nothing about what "families" means. And it doesn't really explain what the whole "people who push money around" thing is.
Even if I take it at face value and we assume this is a "tax the rich" meme, I'm in favor but my reasons have little to do with people's occupation or marital status. I want to tax the rich becuase one must do that in a capitalistic system or... well... this happens.
up
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—
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I've actually had to listen to "both sides". I know people in the market that claim their invstments provide "liquidity" to the market, i.e. they make the economy move. Is that a value? Does it get you closer to your goal?
The other side is not only is politics local, so is how money is obtained, allocated, invested, and disbursed. Smart money supports your ideals in all those aspects. Ultimately, it gets you closer to your ambitions, or it provides you with a salve for your efforts.
No easy pick, so I'll go with the self-interest choice.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
And, it also occurs to me that there is a possibility that the Matthew quote in the Bible was mis-translated: Jesus didn't overturn the tables of the "money-changers" but the "money-shufflers".
He was that kind of guy. Or so it is told.
@peachcreek
pilgrims had to "change" their foreign coinage to gold, with the resulting usury applied. Jesus's hatred for usury resulted in the only violent act he committed in his very short lifetime. That single act gave the Roman authorities reason to seize him.
Don't be fooled by 2000 years of Catholic interpretation.
And, it also occurs to me that there is a possibility that the Matthew quote in the Bible was mis-translated: Jesus didn't overturn the tables of the "money-changers" but the "money-shufflers".
He was that kind of guy. Or so it is told.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
@earthling1@earthling1
They were cheating those people. That's why he was mad. Also that their gouging made it more difficult for those people to, in their terms, approach their God.
I'm fully in support of Jesus' black bloc tactics.
#5 pilgrims had to "change" their foreign coinage to gold, with the resulting usury applied. Jesus's hatred for usury resulted in the only violent act he committed in his very short lifetime. That single act gave the Roman authorities reason to seize him.
Don't be fooled by 2000 years of Catholic interpretation.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
which he considered cheating, yes. Surprisingly, the Christian church, as well as most other major religions forbid usury. Excepting the Jewish religion.
For 1950 years, give or take a decade more or less, it has remained prohibited.
It seems to have changed with the advent of a little plastic card.
Whoda thunk?
#5.1#5.1 They were cheating those people. That's why he was mad. Also that their gouging made it more difficult for those people to, in their terms, approach their God.
I'm fully in support of Jesus' black bloc tactics.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
@mhagle
If I understand, there are two divergent philosophies there. I must fall somewhere in between, or I have not made up my mind yet. Joined that group on FB. I will read more. Others may like the Resilience group there, since ours here at c99 seems to have fizzled. Do you find it worthwhile?
I read this article yesterday and it is sort of haunting me.
It seems like we must evolve to something closer to this. Then the question no longer becomes about who is taxed.
It haunts me because I have this inner drive to grow food to share, not to sell.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
There is a Resilience group on Facebook? I will have to check it out. Thanks!
#6 If I understand, there are two divergent philosophies there. I must fall somewhere in between, or I have not made up my mind yet. Joined that group on FB. I will read more. Others may like the Resilience group there, since ours here at c99 seems to have fizzled. Do you find it worthwhile?
@mhagle
At the very least, for myself who knows next to nothing about garden/farming but has been involved in an urban community garden where fresh vegetables are harvested, I'd like to see a forum for folks who want to talk about a whole range of things, as they pertain to both this economic depression and its effect on people's thinning budgets and the dilemma we face of the world's environment/depleted resources/food monopolies.
I'd also be interested in discussing ways to eat better, be more creative with cooking, ideas for cutting shopping costs (how to shop, even) conserving and eating locally/in season, and discussing the many traps and pitfalls of the corporate food monopolies dominating our choices.
The Resilience series here was excellent. What can we do to revive that? Not sure what happened, but I remember Gerrit seemed to be the main force behind that.
I read this article yesterday and it is sort of haunting me.
Gerrit was the main driving force and he has disappeared again.
Your urban community garden sounds wonderful. Small town Texas, we have no official organization - just friends and neighbors talking and sharing. Dr. Deb Tolman has some workshops scheduled in April I would like to attend, particularly Inside the SILO Project. SILO is an acronym for Sustainable Information and Learning Opportunities.
#6 At the very least, for myself who knows next to nothing about garden/farming but has been involved in an urban community garden where fresh vegetables are harvested, I'd like to see a forum for folks who want to talk about a whole range of things, as they pertain to both this economic depression and its effect on people's thinning budgets and the dilemma we face of the world's environment/depleted resources/food monopolies.
I'd also be interested in discussing ways to eat better, be more creative with cooking, ideas for cutting shopping costs (how to shop, even) conserving and eating locally/in season, and discussing the many traps and pitfalls of the corporate food monopolies dominating our choices.
The Resilience series here was excellent. What can we do to revive that? Not sure what happened, but I remember Gerrit seemed to be the main force behind that.
@mhagle
when Gerrit first began. I really wanted to build upon it with Garrit and others and have been waiting for more.
I'm in a position to help new urban gardeners as I currently maintain an experimental terra preta garden that produces such abundance that I have been able to supply numerous neighbors, friends, and family with fresh produce 6 months out of the year. With freezing, canning, and dehydrating we have enough to have veggies year round.
Would love to be more adept at embeding and uploading photos and such so as to "host" a forum here this growing season.
Granddaughter will be home soon for spring break and has promised to educate me.
And show me how to tweet. Stay tuned.
Gerrit was the main driving force and he has disappeared again.
Your urban community garden sounds wonderful. Small town Texas, we have no official organization - just friends and neighbors talking and sharing. Dr. Deb Tolman has some workshops scheduled in April I would like to attend, particularly Inside the SILO Project. SILO is an acronym for Sustainable Information and Learning Opportunities.
I want to hear more from you and MFQ and everyone.
#6.2.1 when Gerrit first began. I really wanted to build upon it with Garrit and others and have been waiting for more.
I'm in a position to help new urban gardeners as I currently maintain an experimental terra preta garden that produces such abundance that I have been able to supply numerous neighbors, friends, and family with fresh produce 6 months out of the year. With freezing, canning, and dehydrating we have enough to have veggies year round.
Would love to be more adept at embeding and uploading photos and such so as to "host" a forum here this growing season.
Granddaughter will be home soon for spring break and has promised to educate me.
And show me how to tweet. Stay tuned.
I don't know that I could take a lead role; in fact, I know I can't. Too much going on at home with me as a stay-at-home Dad with baby duties. But I can certainly help with ideas, or assist with steering it, etc.
I looked back today and saw that Alison Wunderland, dance you monster, Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit are the librarians for the Resilience group, but haven't been here in months. Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit seem to have provided most of the content and steered it. I've only seen dance you monster here recently.
Dance you monster wrote a wonderful, wide-ranging essay back in November for Resilience, which looked at where we are socially and politically and offered suggestions on how to improve the conditions in our lives.
Gerrit was the main driving force and he has disappeared again.
Your urban community garden sounds wonderful. Small town Texas, we have no official organization - just friends and neighbors talking and sharing. Dr. Deb Tolman has some workshops scheduled in April I would like to attend, particularly Inside the SILO Project. SILO is an acronym for Sustainable Information and Learning Opportunities.
@Mark from Queens
Sometimes I simply need the deadline commitment to commit the words to the screen. Let me know how I can assist. Maybe an open forum style.
I don't know that I could take a lead role; in fact, I know I can't. Too much going on at home with me as a stay-at-home Dad with baby duties. But I can certainly help with ideas, or assist with steering it, etc.
I looked back today and saw that Alison Wunderland, dance you monster, Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit are the librarians for the Resilience group, but haven't been here in months. Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit seem to have provided most of the content and steered it. I've only seen dance you monster here recently.
Dance you monster wrote a wonderful, wide-ranging essay back in November for Resilience, which looked at where we are socially and politically and offered suggestions on how to improve the conditions in our lives.
@Mark from Queens
I am interested in this. Perhaps we could find Gerrit.
The fact is that these concerns and revolutionary activity go together at this moment in history.
#6 At the very least, for myself who knows next to nothing about garden/farming but has been involved in an urban community garden where fresh vegetables are harvested, I'd like to see a forum for folks who want to talk about a whole range of things, as they pertain to both this economic depression and its effect on people's thinning budgets and the dilemma we face of the world's environment/depleted resources/food monopolies.
I'd also be interested in discussing ways to eat better, be more creative with cooking, ideas for cutting shopping costs (how to shop, even) conserving and eating locally/in season, and discussing the many traps and pitfalls of the corporate food monopolies dominating our choices.
The Resilience series here was excellent. What can we do to revive that? Not sure what happened, but I remember Gerrit seemed to be the main force behind that.
up
0 users have voted.
—
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Perhaps the the best way to characterize the worst aspect of "to become civilized" is to highlight how that process has facilitated the commodification of so many of our natural interactions.
When too much of your day is definable in terms of transactional analysis are you really interacting as a fully functional human?
I read this article yesterday and it is sort of haunting me.
that if you put a dump truck full of money in the forest, leave it for a month and come back to see what has been accomplished, you have your answer. I "assume" your speaking of taxes, and if I understood Thomas Paine correctly, taxes are just compensation for the appropriation of the commons by the wealthy, because when the world was created, god (or the Anunnki) did't hand out deeds / titles to the land.
But who ever came up with the idea that capitalism, combined with self interest, would produce a great society, was off their fucking rocker!
up
0 users have voted.
—
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
Taxes in conjunction with Spending are used to fine tune the economic sphere to help maintain a fair and equitable social sphere within which we may flourish. A vibrant, supportive society is vital for the health and well being of its individual members.
that if you put a dump truck full of money in the forest, leave it for a month and come back to see what has been accomplished, you have your answer. I "assume" your speaking of taxes, and if I understood Thomas Paine correctly, taxes are just compensation for the appropriation of the commons by the wealthy, because when the world was created, god (or the Anunnki) did't hand out deeds / titles to the land.
But who ever came up with the idea that capitalism, combined with self interest, would produce a great society, was off their fucking rocker!
@PriceRip@PriceRip@PriceRip
They keep the union functioning. All union members must pay their dues. To fail paying weakens the union.
All unions, be it the US Chamber of Commerce, the American Medical Association, the Actors Guild, even the largest union of all, the Union of American States require revenue to function.
Not lost on me is the LABOR union is consistently hated by all others. Food for thought.
Taxes in conjunction with Spending are used to fine tune the economic sphere to help maintain a fair and equitable social sphere within which we may flourish. A vibrant, supportive society is vital for the health and well being of its individual members.
up
0 users have voted.
—
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
States, like labor unions, and other similar non-sovereign entities must maintain conserved flow (as in conservation of amount of money, id est balanced books) monetary accounts. At the Federal level (the issuer of the sovereign currency) is not naturally constrained. Sovereign currency creation (Government Spending) is not intimately (nor inherently) connected to sovereign currency annihilation (Federal Taxation), except in the minds of certain (unnamed) people.
#7.1#7.1#7.1 They keep the union functioning. All union members must pay their dues. To fail paying weakens the union.
All unions, be it the US Chamber of Commerce, the American Medical Association, the Actors Guild, even the largest union of all, the Union of American States require revenue to function.
Not lost on me is the LABOR union is consistently hated by all others. Food for thought.
@RantingRooster
it might be compost with little bits of eyes and pyramids on it. Reminds me that winter compost can needs rotation and addition and watering in. Soon. Limping. Lol.
that if you put a dump truck full of money in the forest, leave it for a month and come back to see what has been accomplished, you have your answer. I "assume" your speaking of taxes, and if I understood Thomas Paine correctly, taxes are just compensation for the appropriation of the commons by the wealthy, because when the world was created, god (or the Anunnki) did't hand out deeds / titles to the land.
But who ever came up with the idea that capitalism, combined with self interest, would produce a great society, was off their fucking rocker!
up
0 users have voted.
—
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Comments
It means nothing to me
It doesn't tell me anything about why we're taking the $1000. It explains nothing about what "families" means. And it doesn't really explain what the whole "people who push money around" thing is.
Even if I take it at face value and we assume this is a "tax the rich" meme, I'm in favor but my reasons have little to do with people's occupation or marital status. I want to tax the rich becuase one must do that in a capitalistic system or... well... this happens.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Take it from the money-shufflers.
They have it to spare, and money-shuffling doesn't produce social goods (like food). It's actually a drag on the economy.
Well ...
Not sure if this is where you were going with the question, but my immediate response is, what the hell do I need with 20 billion dollars?
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
@Centaurea A new energy
A new energy infrastructure.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Not that I agree with it
I've actually had to listen to "both sides". I know people in the market that claim their invstments provide "liquidity" to the market, i.e. they make the economy move. Is that a value? Does it get you closer to your goal?
The other side is not only is politics local, so is how money is obtained, allocated, invested, and disbursed. Smart money supports your ideals in all those aspects. Ultimately, it gets you closer to your ambitions, or it provides you with a salve for your efforts.
No easy pick, so I'll go with the self-interest choice.
Fighting for democratic principles,... well, since forever
I'd have to know more to answer, but yeah likely agree.
And, it also occurs to me that there is a possibility that the Matthew quote in the Bible was mis-translated: Jesus didn't overturn the tables of the "money-changers" but the "money-shufflers".
He was that kind of guy. Or so it is told.
The Temple would only accept gold as tithe,
pilgrims had to "change" their foreign coinage to gold, with the resulting usury applied. Jesus's hatred for usury resulted in the only violent act he committed in his very short lifetime. That single act gave the Roman authorities reason to seize him.
Don't be fooled by 2000 years of Catholic interpretation.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
@earthling1 They were cheating
They were cheating those people. That's why he was mad. Also that their gouging made it more difficult for those people to, in their terms, approach their God.
I'm fully in support of Jesus' black bloc tactics.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Jesus spoke out against usury
which he considered cheating, yes. Surprisingly, the Christian church, as well as most other major religions forbid usury. Excepting the Jewish religion.
For 1950 years, give or take a decade more or less, it has remained prohibited.
It seems to have changed with the advent of a little plastic card.
Whoda thunk?
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
The Commons - a step further
I read this article yesterday and it is sort of haunting me.
http://www.resilience.org/stories/2017-03-06/commoning-a-different-way-o...
It seems like we must evolve to something closer to this. Then the question no longer becomes about who is taxed.
It haunts me because I have this inner drive to grow food to share, not to sell.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Interesting article, Marilyn
If I understand, there are two divergent philosophies there. I must fall somewhere in between, or I have not made up my mind yet. Joined that group on FB. I will read more. Others may like the Resilience group there, since ours here at c99 seems to have fizzled. Do you find it worthwhile?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I have not joined it . . .
There is a Resilience group on Facebook? I will have to check it out. Thanks!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I really like your advocacy for self-sustainability, mhagle.
At the very least, for myself who knows next to nothing about garden/farming but has been involved in an urban community garden where fresh vegetables are harvested, I'd like to see a forum for folks who want to talk about a whole range of things, as they pertain to both this economic depression and its effect on people's thinning budgets and the dilemma we face of the world's environment/depleted resources/food monopolies.
I'd also be interested in discussing ways to eat better, be more creative with cooking, ideas for cutting shopping costs (how to shop, even) conserving and eating locally/in season, and discussing the many traps and pitfalls of the corporate food monopolies dominating our choices.
The Resilience series here was excellent. What can we do to revive that? Not sure what happened, but I remember Gerrit seemed to be the main force behind that.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
I miss our Resilience group too . . .
Gerrit was the main driving force and he has disappeared again.
Your urban community garden sounds wonderful. Small town Texas, we have no official organization - just friends and neighbors talking and sharing. Dr. Deb Tolman has some workshops scheduled in April I would like to attend, particularly Inside the SILO Project . SILO is an acronym for Sustainable Information and Learning Opportunities.
http://www.debtolman.com/khg2017.htm
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I participated in that group
when Gerrit first began. I really wanted to build upon it with Garrit and others and have been waiting for more.
I'm in a position to help new urban gardeners as I currently maintain an experimental terra preta garden that produces such abundance that I have been able to supply numerous neighbors, friends, and family with fresh produce 6 months out of the year. With freezing, canning, and dehydrating we have enough to have veggies year round.
Would love to be more adept at embeding and uploading photos and such so as to "host" a forum here this growing season.
Granddaughter will be home soon for spring break and has promised to educate me.
And show me how to tweet. Stay tuned.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Sounds amazing!
I want to hear more from you and MFQ and everyone.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Well, this is a good sign...How best then to revive Resilience?
@earthling1 @Cant Stop the Signal
I don't know that I could take a lead role; in fact, I know I can't. Too much going on at home with me as a stay-at-home Dad with baby duties. But I can certainly help with ideas, or assist with steering it, etc.
I looked back today and saw that Alison Wunderland, dance you monster, Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit are the librarians for the Resilience group, but haven't been here in months. Martha Pearce-Smith and Gerrit seem to have provided most of the content and steered it. I've only seen dance you monster here recently.
http://caucus99percent.com/content/resilience-resource-library
Dance you monster wrote a wonderful, wide-ranging essay back in November for Resilience, which looked at where we are socially and politically and offered suggestions on how to improve the conditions in our lives.
http://caucus99percent.com/content/resilience-upwelling
Will private message dym to see if we can revive this/make it a more prominent feature.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Have ideas for a number of resilience diaries.
Sometimes I simply need the deadline commitment to commit the words to the screen. Let me know how I can assist. Maybe an open forum style.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
@Mark from Queens I am interested in this
I am interested in this. Perhaps we could find Gerrit.
The fact is that these concerns and revolutionary activity go together at this moment in history.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
May need an assist forming a group, maybe jtc can step in
Please please please Mr. Moderator?
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
If you want to start a group...
drop me a PM.
Since the dawn of time food has been for sharing.
Perhaps the the best way to characterize the worst aspect of "to become civilized" is to highlight how that process has facilitated the commodification of so many of our natural interactions.
When too much of your day is definable in terms of transactional analysis are you really interacting as a fully functional human?
I'm of the mind set
that if you put a dump truck full of money in the forest, leave it for a month and come back to see what has been accomplished, you have your answer. I "assume" your speaking of taxes, and if I understood Thomas Paine correctly, taxes are just compensation for the appropriation of the commons by the wealthy, because when the world was created, god (or the Anunnki) did't hand out deeds / titles to the land.
But who ever came up with the idea that capitalism, combined with self interest, would produce a great society, was off their fucking rocker!
C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote
Taxes are one of two controls.
Taxes in conjunction with Spending are used to fine tune the economic sphere to help maintain a fair and equitable social sphere within which we may flourish. A vibrant, supportive society is vital for the health and well being of its individual members.
Taxes are the same thing as union dues.
They keep the union functioning. All union members must pay their dues. To fail paying weakens the union.
All unions, be it the US Chamber of Commerce, the American Medical Association, the Actors Guild, even the largest union of all, the Union of American States require revenue to function.
Not lost on me is the LABOR union is consistently hated by all others. Food for thought.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
State Taxes, maybe, but not at all like Federal Taxes
States, like labor unions, and other similar non-sovereign entities must maintain conserved flow (as in conservation of amount of money, id est balanced books) monetary accounts. At the Federal level (the issuer of the sovereign currency) is not naturally constrained. Sovereign currency creation (Government Spending) is not intimately (nor inherently) connected to sovereign currency annihilation (Federal Taxation), except in the minds of certain (unnamed) people.
If a dump truck of paper bills were dumped here in a month
it might be compost with little bits of eyes and pyramids on it. Reminds me that winter compost can needs rotation and addition and watering in. Soon. Limping. Lol.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.