I haven't seen much here about this.

Submitted by tapu dali on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 7:30am

I'm referring to the Trump - Putin "scandal", which some here consider to be "much ado about little".

Would someone care to comment about articles like this?

Or is it not worth our time?

I'm not trying to be difficult. I honestly want to know what people here think about it. As for myself, I'm more than a little concerned that Trump, and the Republicans in Congress, are dangerously close to to the line where their behavior could be called treasonous.

I welcome other views.

Tags:

#Trump #Russia

Vote

Comments

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:13am

It calls for a full blown investigation which is underway

They are wading through a large number of transcripts to see if there are instances of collusion, which I don't know if that constitutes treason per se, but it is practicing foreign policy as an unelected official; a serious criminal offense.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:20am

What does "Practicisng foreign policy" mean?

@sojourns

Submitted by bondibox on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:31am

Practicing foreign policy

@HenryAWallace If I were to have a personal phone call with Mr. Putin, would that be treasonous? I'm guessing it would not. And if I was a member of the president's administration, it would also not be treasonous. But if I was a *pending* member of the president's administration, and I spoke to Putin, I should be put to death?

—

“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

Submitted by Wink on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 3:10am

Exactly. I don't get

@bondibox
all the fuss over at Kos about this "scandal," except they seem to think, once all is said and done, that Hillary somehow becomes president after Trump is thumped. They Still have hope that Her Highness wears her much deserved crown.

—

the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Submitted by Oldest Son Of A... on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 2:47pm

They've Gone Insane At The Orange Stain...

@Wink They are going to go all the way through the 2020 Election thinking by some miracle their Unelectable Queen will have a Coronation somehow...

Despite the legitimate election results.
Despite their clear failure.
Despite the laws of this country.
Despite the US Constitution.

Despite there is still a mass exodus from the party.
Despite the Rigged Primary.
Despite the millions of people poisoned toward the party by Correct The Record Trolls.

Everyone will come back together again... "Because Trump."

Their thinking long ago defied logic, and they are in serious need of that "Check Up From The Neck Up."

It's Not A...

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykz6w2ldoFw]

It's the death of the ~~democ~~RATic Party...

—

"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 5:46pm

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor

Lol, wanna bet that they'll likely plan to have TPTB's government lackey's pass another illegal law or 6 to make more of the illegal termed 'legal', have the election declared void (as it actually should be, since it was based on the illegitimate result of Dem Primary cheating and it should have been the Dem winner Bernie VS Repub, in order to be a legitimate election with The People's choice winning,) and have the Supreme Court appoint the Clintons, since two are bitter as one, and put-Bill-in-charge-of-the-economy-in-poor-areas will have to work fast to trash the remains of The Poors ground-level economy in boring old Regular Reality - real fast - while Hillary plays with her nukes at long last, polishing off life on the planet to be certain that the world is her very own funereal pyre and she is, indeed The First And Last Sitting-Pee US President EVAH!

Of course, the Dem notion of The Dream probably doesn't include the part about Her Royal Coronation polishing off all life, as in including theirs and her own - just those dratted Poors, once drained of anything still remaining to them for Those Who Matter...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Oldest Son Of A... on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 7:26pm

You said it better than I did for sure...

@Ellen North Sadly we know all to well what should have been, and we sure don't like the result of their actions. If anyone committed treason, the ones crying treason, need to have a long hard look in the mirror... At the traitorous fool in the mirror...

—

"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,

Submitted by Ellen North on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 7:29pm

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor

Lol, no way; yours was much better. Mine was merely much bitter.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 7:58pm

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor I hate to be a

@Oldest Son Of A Sailor I hate to be a downer, but unless she's incapacitated or dead, she probably will be our next President. DHS now controls our elections.

OTOH, maybe the hackers of the world will prevent the results from being adjusted for Hillary by adjusting them otherwise.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 9:10pm

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Nice thought, but they now kinda have the internet, (which was developed at the American public's cost and forms essential public communication,) don't they?

On the other hand:

Feb 17/ 7:45 PM

http://russia-insider.com/en/great-draining-begins-trump-purges-state-de...

The Great Draining Begins: Trump Purges State Department's 7th Floor 'Shadow Government'

Tillerson just fired most of the State Department's 7th floor, which is known in Washington as the "Shadow Government"
Rudy Panko

11 hours ago

CBS is reporting that Tillerson is handing out pink slips like candy, specifically to the State Department's "7th floor":

...

Why is this significant? Because the "7th floor" is known as the home to powerful, high-ranking State Department officials who did everything in their power to shield Hillary Clinton from justice. As the NY Post reported last October:

The FBI also released the summary of an interview that revealed a cabal at State that oversaw the email release — a “powerful group of very high-ranking STATE officials that some referred to as ‘The 7th Floor Group’ or as ‘The Shadow Government.’ This group met every Wednesday afternoon to discuss . . . everything CLINTON-related to FOIA/Congressional inquiries.”

Imagine officials high in the George W. Bush administration calling themelves “the Shadow Government” as they oversaw a supposedly nonpartisan release of documents that could sink the White House hopes of its former boss.

You can bet this is part of Trump's counter-offensive, now that he realizes how many Beltway snakes are out to get him.

The great draining begins.

*wishes for heavily-buttered popcorn*

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by eyo on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:05am

"practicing foreign policy as an unelected official"

@HenryAWallace Look up Clinton Global Foundation for a start, then K Street D.C., etc.. It's called "practice" because so many crooks do it? Heh.

thanks

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:32am

I don't think it's a real thing, unless or until someone is

@eyo

President. The allegation is that "it" started a year ago. A year ago, Trump was not even the nominee. I don't think candidates "practicing foreign policy" is a real thing. More importantly, I don't think Putin thinks candidates' practicing foreign policy is a real thing. If it candidates practicing foreign policy is a real thing, I'd sure like to know what it consists of.

I don't think an essayist claiming treason makes something--we're not quite sure what--treason, either.

Submitted by eyo on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:49pm

What if the candidate is the incumbent? Gimme space bro!

@HenryAWallace "I don't think candidates "practicing foreign policy" is a real thing."
Made my lint trap spew this from the ancient bookmark pile: Obama tells Russia's Medvedev more flexibility after election

President Barack Obama was caught on camera on Monday assuring outgoing Russian President Dmitry Medvedev that he will have "more flexibility" to deal with contentious issues like missile defense after the U.S. presidential election.
Obama, during talks in Seoul, urged Moscow to give him "space" until after the November ballot, and Medvedev said he would relay the message to incoming Russian president Vladimir Putin.

The unusually frank exchange came as Obama and Medvedev huddled together on the eve of a global nuclear security summit in the South Korean capital, unaware their words were being picked up by microphones as reporters were led into the room.

Pulling a Clintonesque public/private oops. Treason! LOL thanks

Submitted by CS in AZ on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 5:26pm

Ok, I looked it up; turns out it is kind of a real thing

@HenryAWallace
The law doesn't use the words "practicing foreign policy" but there is a law that says this:

18 U.S. Code § 953 - Private correspondence with foreign governments

Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/953

Pretty vague language... "in relation to any disputes or controversies" ... I suppose elections could fall into this definition, but it's rather unclear. Typical lawyer language imo, impossible to decipher a concrete meaning.

Anyway, we have no idea what these allleged conversations with Trump "associates" consisted of. If it's just people trying to make a buck (or a few billion bucks), I don't think that would break this law. Nor would something like an ex-president negotiating a peace deal elsewhere, unless such an agreement was specifically against US policy. If it was to influence a US election, that's more of a gray area perhaps.

But in any case, it isn't treason or even close. Three years prison if prosecuted, and/or an unspecified fine. People get longer sentences for weed. Much longer in some cases.

This story really does sound like it's just a lot of bellowing and throwing fuel into the fire that is being stoked in which to burn Trump to a cinder. Which is stupid and unnecessary imo, although given how much I despise Trump and everyone around him, I'm hard pressed to feel sorry for them. Ooo, the mean old media is trying to make his life difficult? Sniff...

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 8:03pm

@CS in AZ Well, yeah, I

@CS in AZ Well, yeah, I mean, are they coming for Jimmy Carter and Jesse Jackson next?

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 8:01pm

@eyo Um... the Clinton

@eyo Um... the Clinton Global Foundation traded access to the United States' top diplomat for big checks dumped into said diplomat's private family foundation. Which is real close to paying the Secretary of State for certain foreign policy results.

I don't think the problem there is unappointed civilians practicing cowboy diplomacy; I think it's more that appointed officials are announcing to the whole fucking world that they're for sale to the highest bidder.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Big Al on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:08am

Well, they have to practice before they get to the big game

@HenryAWallace don't they? I mean, we wouldn't want them to start off without any practice at all would we?

Submitted by dennis1958 on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:11am

I believe the meaning involves the dropping of dropping bombs

@HenryAWallace in the strictest sense.

—

With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:21am

For example--

@HenryAWallace When Reagan was negotiating with the Iranian Terrorists before he was elected. The infamous Iran/Contra affair. Not just writing a letter or visiting with the President of Korea as did that obnoxious basketball player -- Dennis something or other but some kind of policy push, as Flynn telling a Russian Ambassador that the subsidies would go away...

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:54am

The subject is Trump.

@sojourns

We're talking about something or other Trump campaign officials have supposedly been doing for a year.What have Trump campaign officials supposedly been doing for a year that constitutes "practicing" foreign policy?" At most, they offered to do certain things if Trump was elected. That's neither conducting foreign policy nor treason.

BTW, I disagree with you as to Reagan and Rodman, but I don't want to go off on that tangent as neither of those things is the subject this thread.

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 2:21pm

I don't recall saying that it was treason.

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace "High crimes and misdemeanors" is the category I would put it under.

If collusion can be proved, if Trump knew about it or more likely suggested it, if I were speculate, which I am, then there is serious trouble afoot. There are heaps of transcripts from Trump's aids' trips abroad. Normal surveillance practices for anyone visiting with Russian dignitaries. Most likely leaked by the the intelligence community who are pretty pissed at Trump. IF they can find a quo, then it would be a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

There's actual paper unlike the alleged Roosian hacks, where the intelligence community was trying to prove a negative as far as I'm concerned. No or insufficient tangible evidence. Funny how the congress has gone quiet on that matter.

Foreign Policy is a rather broad expression. Policy being a soft word unlike rule or law. As I see it, any effort to manipulate a sovereign nation is essentially an effort to assert policy.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by irishking on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:39pm

Dennis Rodman

@sojourns

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 8:07pm

@sojourns My problem with that

@sojourns My problem with that is not that he was doing it before he was elected. My problem with that--and this is something that raises my blood pressure mightily--is that he was negotiating to delay the release of those hostages until after he won the election. In other words, he was willing to place his own petty political desires above the well-being of American citizens imprisoned by hostile foreign forces.

Fuck. That. Noise.

If we didn't have such a narrow definition of treason, THAT would be treason, not because he negotiated with the Iranians, but because he used the United States' enemy as a tool to prolong the suffering of our captured citizens, so that he could use that suffering as political fodder for his loathsome career.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 9:13pm

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Agrees and applauds!

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Linda Wood on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:08pm

Exactly.

@HenryAWallace What exactly are we talking about?

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 7:57pm

@HenryAWallace Talking on the phone

@HenryAWallace Talking on the phone with a Russian ambassador.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:58am

I remember when ex-prez Jimmy Carter

@sojourns negotiated a peaceful transition of power in Haiti.
I guess that was a bad thing.

practicing foreign policy as an unelected official; a serious criminal offense

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 2:25pm

I'm certain that President Carter

@gjohnsit -- had all his ducks in a row. I'm sure he applied for and received whatever special dispensation that would be required by the State Department in order to proceed. Special Ambassador or something. However it was done, I think it is safe to say that Carter operated within the law.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 2:44pm

I'm hearing a lot of unproven faith

@sojourns
in what is and isn't a crime

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 3:30pm

Generally, faith doesn't require proof.

@gjohnsit @gjohnsit --As to Carter, I'm running under what I believe to be safe assumptions. I'm not going to spend the day researching it.

And by the way. In all of Carter's post presidential peace initiatives, he was in no way, shape or form representing the United States policy or otherwise. Moot.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 3:34pm

True

@sojourns

faith doesn't require proof

However, we aren't debating, or even searching for the truth.
The truth is irrelevant when you have faith.

Did Trump break any laws? Who cares! Dems believe he did.

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 4:04pm

I don't know what it is that you are debating

@gjohnsit -- methinks you are being argumentative for sake of being argumentative. I'm done.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by gjohnsit on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 4:30pm

Allow me to offer an example

@sojourns
the criminal Jesse Jackson

But how does a non-diplomat negotiate with a foreign government?
Jackson forayed to Yugoslavia--and to Syria, Cuba, and Iraq before that--without presidential or congressional approval. Foreign policy officials in Washington have protested publicly about all of Jackson's rescue missions. (Jackson's roving diplomacy rankled the Reagan and Bush administrations, but according to some reports, the Clinton administration quietly approved the latest one.)

According to his biographer, Marshall Frady, Jackson simply watches the media coverage of hostage situations like everyone else. But once he decides to get involved, he sets about networking his way into the heart of the conflict. In 1983, he cabled Assad directly to plead for the release of downed pilot Robert Goodman Jr. When Assad failed to respond, Jackson flew to Damascus and worked his way through a tangle of lower-level Syrian bureaucrats before securing a meeting with the Syrian leader. (The success of that mission jumpstarted Jackson's 1984 presidential campaign.)

Do you think Jackson should be in jail?

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 11:13am

@gjohnsit Jackson

@gjohnsit Jackson hadn't suggested reining in both the CIA and NATO.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:21pm

@sojourns

@sojourns

But all of this claimed evidence is described as being 'classified', as are the pertinent details, and it sounds (rather obviously to me) as though there is more whole cloth being manufactured in which to dress the Empire's exploded claims to any 'need' of their seizing Top Secret control over the American electoral apparatus and nuking a long-waiting list of countries capable of resisting conventional military muggings/invasions for corporate take-over.

Considering the way all sides of the power struggle lie, I'd believe none of them, but we do know enough about the 'Rooshia hacked the emails/election' propaganda to dismiss that and this is apparently more of the same effluent being pumped by the corporate media into the revolted public maw, even if some do swallow rather than spit.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 2:34pm

How do we disambiguate so many shades of grey?

@Ellen North --I'm beginning to find solace in that it seems that the planet is going to decide our fate after all.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 3:02pm

@sojourns

@sojourns

Actually, it's more that the Parasite Class felt it would be OK to destroy the planetary life forming the life-support system, because either Super-Jesus or Super-Tech is going to swoop down in the nick of time to save them, and only them.

In the latter case, apparently by turning them into cyborgs and/or ultimately personality recordings within mechanical objects where they can live in Virtual Reality, as though they already don't, ("We can live forever, by no longer living at all!") they can exist in the most horrible, self-created dystopia imaginable for all eternity. In other words, they're busily inventing hell on Earth for themselves.

Only, of course, they'll still be dead and their personality recordings won't have any real feelings either so won't really be capable of caring... sorta like they are now, actually...

Going to re-post this here, for a little of the background.

This is a gotta-read.
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationshi...

David Dayen

April 22 2016

... Meetings between Google and the White House, viewed in this context, sometimes function like calls to the IT Help Desk. Only instead of working for the same company, the government is supposed to be regulating Google as a private business, not continually asking it for favors. ...

... The obvious question that arises is: Can government do its job with respect to regulating Google in the public interest if it owes the company such a debt of gratitude? ...

... When the federal government and a private company share the same worldview, get the same insights from the same groups of people, the policy drift can occur with nobody explicitly choosing the direction. It just seems like the right thing to do. ...

... Between January 2009 and October 2015, Google staffers gathered at the White House on 427 separate occasions. All told, 182 White House employees and 169 Google employees attended the meetings, with participation from almost every domestic policy and national security player in the West Wing.

The frequency of the meetings has increased practically every year, from 32 in 2009 to 97 in 2014. In the first 10 months of 2015, which is as far as the study goes, there were 85 Google meetings. ...

... The government and Google shared engineers, lawyers, scientists, communications specialists, executives, and even board members. Google has achieved a kind of vertical integration with the government: a true public-private partnership. ...

And Obama's been planning to become a Silicone Valley venture capitalist, joining a number of Bush Admin and other ex-public official in various jobs in Silicone Valley...

http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/obama-the-vc.html

Silicon Valley VCs to President Obama: We're Hiring
The president hints at a future in Silicon Valley after he leaves the White House.
By Jessica Stillman
Contributor, Inc.com

... "The conversations I have with Silicon Valley and with venture capital pull together my interests in science and organization in a way I find really satisfying," he added, elaborating:

"You think about something like precision medicine: the work we've done to try to build off of breakthroughs in the human genome; the fact that now you can have your personal genome mapped for a thousand bucks instead of $100,000; and the potential for us to identify what your tendencies are, and to sculpt medicines that are uniquely effective for you. That's just an example of something I can sit and listen and talk to folks for hours about."
Would he be any good at the gig?

So, how would a former politician do in Silicon Valley? According to Quartz, other VC's are pretty optimistic about the idea. After all, there's precedent for making such a move successfully. "Former secretary of defense Colin Powell joined Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers in 2005, followed by former vice president Al Gore in 2007. Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state under George W. Bush, teamed up with Khosla Ventures in 2012," the publication's Michael J. Coren points out. ...

There's a lot more than robots - and immortality - involved - another must-read:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/22/robots-google-ray-kur...

Are the robots about to rise? Google's new director of engineering thinks so…
Ray Kurzweil popularised the Teminator-like moment he called the 'singularity', when artificial intelligence overtakes human thinking. But now the man who hopes to be immortal is involved in the very same quest – on behalf of the tech behemoth

Robot from The Terminator
The Terminator films envisage a future in which robots have become sentient and are at war with humankind. Ray Kurzweil thinks that machines could become ‘conscious’ by 2029 but is optimistic about the implications for humans. Photograph: Solent News/Rex

Carole Cadwalladr

Saturday 22 February 2014

...Kurzweil has worked with Google's co-founder Larry Page on special projects over several years. "And I'd been having ongoing conversations with him about artificial intelligence and what Google is doing and what I was trying to do. And basically he said, 'Do it here. We'll give you the independence you've had with your own company, but you'll have these Google-scale resources.'"

And it's the Google-scale resources that are beyond anything the world has seen before. Such as the huge data sets that result from 1 billion people using Google ever single day. And the Google knowledge graph, which consists of 800m concepts and the billions of relationships between them. This is already a neural network, a massive, distributed global "brain". Can it learn? Can it think? It's what some of the smartest people on the planet are working on next. ...

... Language, he believes, is the key to everything. "And my project is ultimately to base search on really understanding what the language means. When you write an article you're not creating an interesting collection of words. You have something to say and Google is devoted to intelligently organising and processing the world's information. The message in your article is information, and the computers are not picking up on that. So we would like to actually have the computers read. We want them to read everything on the web and every page of every book, then be able to engage an intelligent dialogue with the user to be able to answer their questions."

Google will know the answer to your question before you have asked it, he says. It will have read every email you've ever written, every document, every idle thought you've ever tapped into a search-engine box. It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself. ...

... And once the computers can read their own instructions, well… gaining domination over the rest of the universe will surely be easy pickings. Though Kurzweil, being a techno-optimist, doesn't worry about the prospect of being enslaved by a master race of newly liberated iPhones with ideas above their station. He believes technology will augment us. Make us better, smarter, fitter. That just as we've already outsourced our ability to remember telephone numbers to their electronic embrace, so we will welcome nanotechnologies that thin our blood and boost our brain cells. His mind-reading search engine will be a "cybernetic friend". He is unimpressed by Google Glass because he doesn't want any technological filter between us and reality. He just wants reality to be that much better. ...

But if it ain't real, it ain't reality - and you can only fly off of that cliff to a soft landing in your dreams. Real reality causes you to come down to Earth with a literal splat, no matter what you might believe to be true in your own little virtual reality, or delusional state, to use real-world terms.

But when you move to a magical belief system, you may be willing to sacrifice the real world and everyone else in it to gain your very own, personal fantasy world... especially if you're among - or hope to be among - the insulated super-wealthy planning to live forever in your very own special virtual reality, wishing the cliffs away by the magical tech that makes it up for you.

Venture capitalism sounds like a good way to make the requisite... billions?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 4:01pm

I have found Google to be a frightening entity

@Ellen North -- for quite some time now. Beginning with their notice many years ago that they were going to scan all gmail in order to better target adverts.

Those were great articles. I did not know that Google was in bed with the gov't to the extent that it is.

Hello Skynet.

#1.3.1 Actually, it's more that the Parasite Class felt it would be OK to destroy the planetary life forming the life-support system, because either Super-Jesus or Super-Tech is going to swoop down in the nick of time to save them, and only them. In the latter case, apparently by turning them into cyborgs and/or ultimately personality recordings within mechanical objects where they can live in Virtual Reality, as though they already don't, ("We can live forever, by no longer living at all!") they can exist in the most horrible, self-created dystopia imaginable for all eternity. In other words, they're busily inventing hell on Earth for themselves. Only, of course, they'll still be dead and their personality recordings won't have any real feelings either so won't really be capable of caring... sorta like they are now, actually... Going to re-post this here, for a little of the background. This is a gotta-read. https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationshi... David Dayen April 22 2016 ... Meetings between Google and the White House, viewed in this context, sometimes function like calls to the IT Help Desk. Only instead of working for the same company, the government is supposed to be regulating Google as a private business, not continually asking it for favors. ... ... The obvious question that arises is: Can government do its job with respect to regulating Google in the public interest if it owes the company such a debt of gratitude? ... ... When the federal government and a private company share the same worldview, get the same insights from the same groups of people, the policy drift can occur with nobody explicitly choosing the direction. It just seems like the right thing to do. ... ... Between January 2009 and October 2015, Google staffers gathered at the White House on 427 separate occasions. All told, 182 White House employees and 169 Google employees attended the meetings, with participation from almost every domestic policy and national security player in the West Wing. The frequency of the meetings has increased practically every year, from 32 in 2009 to 97 in 2014. In the first 10 months of 2015, which is as far as the study goes, there were 85 Google meetings. ... ... The government and Google shared engineers, lawyers, scientists, communications specialists, executives, and even board members. Google has achieved a kind of vertical integration with the government: a true public-private partnership. ... And Obama's been planning to become a Silicone Valley venture capitalist, joining a number of Bush Admin and other ex-public official in various jobs in Silicone Valley... http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/obama-the-vc.html Silicon Valley VCs to President Obama: We're Hiring The president hints at a future in Silicon Valley after he leaves the White House. By Jessica Stillman Contributor, Inc.com ... "The conversations I have with Silicon Valley and with venture capital pull together my interests in science and organization in a way I find really satisfying," he added, elaborating: "You think about something like precision medicine: the work we've done to try to build off of breakthroughs in the human genome; the fact that now you can have your personal genome mapped for a thousand bucks instead of $100,000; and the potential for us to identify what your tendencies are, and to sculpt medicines that are uniquely effective for you. That's just an example of something I can sit and listen and talk to folks for hours about." Would he be any good at the gig? So, how would a former politician do in Silicon Valley? According to Quartz, other VC's are pretty optimistic about the idea. After all, there's precedent for making such a move successfully. "Former secretary of defense Colin Powell joined Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers in 2005, followed by former vice president Al Gore in 2007. Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state under George W. Bush, teamed up with Khosla Ventures in 2012," the publication's Michael J. Coren points out. ... There's a lot more than robots - and immortality - involved - another must-read: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/22/robots-google-ray-kur... Are the robots about to rise? Google's new director of engineering thinks so… Ray Kurzweil popularised the Teminator-like moment he called the 'singularity', when artificial intelligence overtakes human thinking. But now the man who hopes to be immortal is involved in the very same quest – on behalf of the tech behemoth Robot from The Terminator The Terminator films envisage a future in which robots have become sentient and are at war with humankind. Ray Kurzweil thinks that machines could become ‘conscious’ by 2029 but is optimistic about the implications for humans. Photograph: Solent News/Rex Carole Cadwalladr Saturday 22 February 2014 ...Kurzweil has worked with Google's co-founder Larry Page on special projects over several years. "And I'd been having ongoing conversations with him about artificial intelligence and what Google is doing and what I was trying to do. And basically he said, 'Do it here. We'll give you the independence you've had with your own company, but you'll have these Google-scale resources.'" And it's the Google-scale resources that are beyond anything the world has seen before. Such as the huge data sets that result from 1 billion people using Google ever single day. And the Google knowledge graph, which consists of 800m concepts and the billions of relationships between them. This is already a neural network, a massive, distributed global "brain". Can it learn? Can it think? It's what some of the smartest people on the planet are working on next. ... ... Language, he believes, is the key to everything. "And my project is ultimately to base search on really understanding what the language means. When you write an article you're not creating an interesting collection of words. You have something to say and Google is devoted to intelligently organising and processing the world's information. The message in your article is information, and the computers are not picking up on that. So we would like to actually have the computers read. We want them to read everything on the web and every page of every book, then be able to engage an intelligent dialogue with the user to be able to answer their questions." Google will know the answer to your question before you have asked it, he says. It will have read every email you've ever written, every document, every idle thought you've ever tapped into a search-engine box. It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself. ... ... And once the computers can read their own instructions, well… gaining domination over the rest of the universe will surely be easy pickings. Though Kurzweil, being a techno-optimist, doesn't worry about the prospect of being enslaved by a master race of newly liberated iPhones with ideas above their station. He believes technology will augment us. Make us better, smarter, fitter. That just as we've already outsourced our ability to remember telephone numbers to their electronic embrace, so we will welcome nanotechnologies that thin our blood and boost our brain cells. His mind-reading search engine will be a "cybernetic friend". He is unimpressed by Google Glass because he doesn't want any technological filter between us and reality. He just wants reality to be that much better. ... But if it ain't real, it ain't reality - and you can only fly off of that cliff to a soft landing in your dreams. Real reality causes you to come down to Earth with a literal splat, no matter what you might believe to be true in your own little virtual reality, or delusional state, to use real-world terms. But when you move to a magical belief system, you may be willing to sacrifice the real world and everyone else in it to gain your very own, personal fantasy world... especially if you're among - or hope to be among - the insulated super-wealthy planning to live forever in your very own special virtual reality, wishing the cliffs away by the magical tech that makes it up for you. Venture capitalism sounds like a good way to make the requisite... billions?

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 3:22pm

@sojourns

@sojourns

Only, of course, they'll still be dead and their personality recordings won't have any real feelings either so won't really be capable of caring... sorta like they are now, actually...

Going to re-post this here, for a little of the background.

This is a gotta-read.
https://theintercept.com/2016/04/22/googles-remarkably-close-relationshi...

David Dayen

April 22 2016

... Meetings between Google and the White House, viewed in this context, sometimes function like calls to the IT Help Desk. Only instead of working for the same company, the government is supposed to be regulating Google as a private business, not continually asking it for favors. ...

... The obvious question that arises is: Can government do its job with respect to regulating Google in the public interest if it owes the company such a debt of gratitude? ...

... When the federal government and a private company share the same worldview, get the same insights from the same groups of people, the policy drift can occur with nobody explicitly choosing the direction. It just seems like the right thing to do. ...

... Between January 2009 and October 2015, Google staffers gathered at the White House on 427 separate occasions. All told, 182 White House employees and 169 Google employees attended the meetings, with participation from almost every domestic policy and national security player in the West Wing.

The frequency of the meetings has increased practically every year, from 32 in 2009 to 97 in 2014. In the first 10 months of 2015, which is as far as the study goes, there were 85 Google meetings. ...

... The government and Google shared engineers, lawyers, scientists, communications specialists, executives, and even board members. Google has achieved a kind of vertical integration with the government: a true public-private partnership. ...

And Obama's been planning to become a Silicone Valley venture capitalist, joining a number of Bush Admin and other ex-public official in various jobs in Silicone Valley...

http://www.inc.com/jessica-stillman/obama-the-vc.html

Silicon Valley VCs to President Obama: We're Hiring
The president hints at a future in Silicon Valley after he leaves the White House.
By Jessica Stillman
Contributor, Inc.com

... "The conversations I have with Silicon Valley and with venture capital pull together my interests in science and organization in a way I find really satisfying," he added, elaborating:

"You think about something like precision medicine: the work we've done to try to build off of breakthroughs in the human genome; the fact that now you can have your personal genome mapped for a thousand bucks instead of $100,000; and the potential for us to identify what your tendencies are, and to sculpt medicines that are uniquely effective for you. That's just an example of something I can sit and listen and talk to folks for hours about."
Would he be any good at the gig?

So, how would a former politician do in Silicon Valley? According to Quartz, other VC's are pretty optimistic about the idea. After all, there's precedent for making such a move successfully. "Former secretary of defense Colin Powell joined Kleiner Perkins Caufield Byers in 2005, followed by former vice president Al Gore in 2007. Condoleezza Rice, the secretary of state under George W. Bush, teamed up with Khosla Ventures in 2012," the publication's Michael J. Coren points out. ...

There's a lot more than robots - and immortality - involved - another must-read:
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/feb/22/robots-google-ray-kur...

Are the robots about to rise? Google's new director of engineering thinks so…
Ray Kurzweil popularised the Teminator-like moment he called the 'singularity', when artificial intelligence overtakes human thinking. But now the man who hopes to be immortal is involved in the very same quest – on behalf of the tech behemoth

Robot from The Terminator
The Terminator films envisage a future in which robots have become sentient and are at war with humankind. Ray Kurzweil thinks that machines could become ‘conscious’ by 2029 but is optimistic about the implications for humans. Photograph: Solent News/Rex

Carole Cadwalladr

Saturday 22 February 2014

...Kurzweil has worked with Google's co-founder Larry Page on special projects over several years. "And I'd been having ongoing conversations with him about artificial intelligence and what Google is doing and what I was trying to do. And basically he said, 'Do it here. We'll give you the independence you've had with your own company, but you'll have these Google-scale resources.'"

And it's the Google-scale resources that are beyond anything the world has seen before. Such as the huge data sets that result from 1 billion people using Google ever single day. And the Google knowledge graph, which consists of 800m concepts and the billions of relationships between them. This is already a neural network, a massive, distributed global "brain". Can it learn? Can it think? It's what some of the smartest people on the planet are working on next. ...

... Language, he believes, is the key to everything. "And my project is ultimately to base search on really understanding what the language means. When you write an article you're not creating an interesting collection of words. You have something to say and Google is devoted to intelligently organising and processing the world's information. The message in your article is information, and the computers are not picking up on that. So we would like to actually have the computers read. We want them to read everything on the web and every page of every book, then be able to engage an intelligent dialogue with the user to be able to answer their questions."

Google will know the answer to your question before you have asked it, he says. It will have read every email you've ever written, every document, every idle thought you've ever tapped into a search-engine box. It will know you better than your intimate partner does. Better, perhaps, than even yourself. ...

... And once the computers can read their own instructions, well… gaining domination over the rest of the universe will surely be easy pickings. Though Kurzweil, being a techno-optimist, doesn't worry about the prospect of being enslaved by a master race of newly liberated iPhones with ideas above their station. He believes technology will augment us. Make us better, smarter, fitter. That just as we've already outsourced our ability to remember telephone numbers to their electronic embrace, so we will welcome nanotechnologies that thin our blood and boost our brain cells. His mind-reading search engine will be a "cybernetic friend". He is unimpressed by Google Glass because he doesn't want any technological filter between us and reality. He just wants reality to be that much better. ...

Venture capitalism sounds like a good way to make the requisite... billions?

Got another error message - wonder if this monster actually got through this time or not?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:57pm

@sojourns

@sojourns

How the heck does an unelected official 'practice foreign policy' when presumably only an official can put through official foreign policy? Or is America about to hang all of the diplomats for treason?

On the other hand, corporate/billionaire interference in foreign policy to profit thereby or in using domestic public policy against the public ought to be a hanging (as a figure of speech) offense...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Big Al on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:36am

I haven't seen any evidence other than some vague

accusations by "anonymous officials", the same stuff they pulled with the DNC hacks and many other things. So it sounds like an episode of "propaganda theater" to me. And of course, it plays right into the "Russia is our enemy" bullshit and is obviously part of the ruling class power struggle going on. I think Trump and his regime (like Obama and his regime) are and will be treasonous against the Serfs of the U.S., but not for this.

Submitted by pro left on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:42am

I agree

@Big Al I am sure Trump's presidency will have some serious repercussions on the 99% but doubt it will be this. However I am amused on a daily basis watching the heads explode of the so called liberals and the Pols on both sides.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 11:14am

@Big Al Spot on.

@Big Al Spot on.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by eyo on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:37am

The world is not my enemy, includes Russia

Hi Tapu Dali, are you coming from dkos? You should declare, haha ;-).

Here is my single opinion, fwiw thanks for asking. What do I care if billionaires tools leak? I don't care really, let 'em spy all they want on each other. Might benefit the regular citizenry, I can't see how it could hurt. Maybe they'll leak the stupid plans to "upgrade" U.S. nuclear capabilities, so it could slow that death march a little, or something.

Red-baiting is how it looks, all of it. Even the "proof". What is wrong with Russia? They got out of Afghanistan when the U.S. can not? Okay, collapse is coming wait for it. Funny coincidence these two wiki pages:

The Soviet–Afghan War lasted over nine years from December 1979 to February 1989.

The Berlin Wall (German: Berliner Mauer) was a barrier that divided Berlin from 1961 to 1989

Corrupt governments go bankrupt, just like everything else. lol

Have a great day!
Peace

Submitted by Lookout on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:38am

The relationship...

of the NYT and the CIA/MIC makes them unbelievable and not trustworthy. I've come to trust very little info from the NYT, and always compare with a trusted source. Just as Alex article on Syria from yesterday supports the collusion of Amnesty and human rights watch with the CIA/MIC.

Here's a excerpt from an old article by Glenn Greenwald -
Here we have a New York Times reporter who covers the CIA colluding with its spokesperson to plan for the fallout from the reporting by his own newspaper ("nothing to worry about"). Beyond this, that a New York Times journalist – ostensibly devoted to bringing transparency to government institutions – is pleading with the CIA spokesperson, of all people, to conceal his actions and to delete the evidence of collusion is so richly symbolic.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2012/aug/29/correspondence-col...

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:58pm

@Lookout

@Lookout @Lookout

(Edit: think this was supposed to be to dkmich - hit the reply to Lookout by accident. And just now noticed a cancel function at the message bottom... do need more sleep, someday...)

Trump made no secret - during his well-publicized Presidential run, this being, I should think a rarely more universally popular Trump notion placing him over The Mad Bomber - of the fact that he'd rather make deals with Russia than initiate WW3, and these further damaging sanctions to be enacted because of intelligence-insultingly bogus claims would logically be part of this. So this wasn't exactly a underground idea, nor is the idea of not attacking other people's countries/nuking the world into a barren radioactive waste for increased corporate power and wealth harmful to America or her people.

And it sounds to me as though the warmongers (profiteers/fanatics) are very upset that 'Russia didn't react to the sanctions' because of Trump rather than Clinton being cheated in, as they probably had the nukes all ready to go on this feeble excuse...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:49am

A lot of mixed thoughts....

I put no credence in the NYT, so I went over to the Intercept and poked around. I can't think of one recent administration that didn't commit treason, just not as quickly and without the blessings of the deep state as the Trump group of globalists. If "we the people" are the government, why does the oligarchy control it instead of us?

I have no doubt Russia and the Trump administration have and plan to have many lucrative business deals with Russia. There appears to be evidence that at least Flynn discussed sanctions and other things with Russia. Many of Trump's global oligarchs have documented business ties to Russia as do the Clintons. My guess is all of this was discovered when they were looking for the source of the WikiLeaks. I still see no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC computers and gave the emails to Assange.

From Caitlin's recent post, Bashing Trump Doesn’t Make You A Rebel, It Makes You An Establishment Tool

"So you think you’re a badass, crowing about Michael Flynn’s resignation and making fun of Trump? You think you’re a rebel, spelling his name tRump like a naughty eight year old kid from the forties? It’s because “rump” means “butt”, right? Is that the gag? Be careful you don’t cut yourself on all that edge there, Lenny Bruce.

I don’t expect this article to share particularly well. Progressives are still too intimidated by their liberal friends and acquaintances to openly defy the infamous echo chamber on the social media outlets I get most of my exposure on, but this is getting intensely stupid and somebody needs to say something. The way people are championing a cause that’s also being championed by every multimillionaire on every channel on every show on every television as though they’re being in some way rebellious and counter-cultural is beyond my understanding. The resignation of a National Security Advisor (a registered Democrat, by the way) who was working against the oligarchic push toward a military confrontation with a nuclear superpower, who was one of the few people telling the truth about America’s arming of terrorists in Syria, and Democrats are singing and dancing like a bunch of Ewoks watching an exploding imperial death star.

Let me remind you gangstas that a 2014 Princeton University study showed clearly that the United States of America is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Here’s a five-minute video breaking down what that means and how it works in clear and simple terms. Basically, in the current system, your wishes have essentially no impact on your country’s legislation and policy unless you are very rich; your vote and the votes of the rest of the 99 percent change functionally nothing about the way your nation moves and behaves. So the fact that this guy was democratically elected to be the leader of the nation doesn’t mean that he’s actually in charge; ultimately, the real source of power is the large network of oligarchs and unelected manipulators collectively known as the Deep State.
That is what Bernie Sanders kept talking about when he spoke of America becoming an oligarchy, and that is where the real rebellion is."

I agree with Caitlin.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:25am

Save for one thing

@dkmich He was not democratically elected.

I put no credence in the NYT, so I went over to the Intercept and poked around. I can't think of one recent administration that didn't commit treason, just not as quickly and without the blessings of the deep state as the Trump group of globalists. If "we the people" are the government, why does the oligarchy control it instead of us? I have no doubt Russia and the Trump administration have and plan to have many lucrative business deals with Russia. There appears to be evidence that at least Flynn discussed sanctions and other things with Russia. Many of Trump's global oligarchs have documented business ties to Russia as do the Clintons. My guess is all of this was discovered when they were looking for the source of the WikiLeaks. I still see no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC computers and gave the emails to Assange. From Caitlin's recent post, Bashing Trump Doesn’t Make You A Rebel, It Makes You An Establishment Tool "So you think you’re a badass, crowing about Michael Flynn’s resignation and making fun of Trump? You think you’re a rebel, spelling his name tRump like a naughty eight year old kid from the forties? It’s because “rump” means “butt”, right? Is that the gag? Be careful you don’t cut yourself on all that edge there, Lenny Bruce. I don’t expect this article to share particularly well. Progressives are still too intimidated by their liberal friends and acquaintances to openly defy the infamous echo chamber on the social media outlets I get most of my exposure on, but this is getting intensely stupid and somebody needs to say something. The way people are championing a cause that’s also being championed by every multimillionaire on every channel on every show on every television as though they’re being in some way rebellious and counter-cultural is beyond my understanding. The resignation of a National Security Advisor (a registered Democrat, by the way) who was working against the oligarchic push toward a military confrontation with a nuclear superpower, who was one of the few people telling the truth about America’s arming of terrorists in Syria, and Democrats are singing and dancing like a bunch of Ewoks watching an exploding imperial death star. Let me remind you gangstas that a 2014 Princeton University study showed clearly that the United States of America is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Here’s a five-minute video breaking down what that means and how it works in clear and simple terms. Basically, in the current system, your wishes have essentially no impact on your country’s legislation and policy unless you are very rich; your vote and the votes of the rest of the 99 percent change functionally nothing about the way your nation moves and behaves. So the fact that this guy was democratically elected to be the leader of the nation doesn’t mean that he’s actually in charge; ultimately, the real source of power is the large network of oligarchs and unelected manipulators collectively known as the Deep State. That is what Bernie Sanders kept talking about when he spoke of America becoming an oligarchy, and that is where the real rebellion is." I agree with Caitlin.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:38pm

@sojourns

@sojourns

And it was not a legitimate election, like waaaaay too many others.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 11:16am

@sojourns Because of the

@sojourns Because of the electoral college, or something else?

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by crbngville on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:47am

Caitlin

@dkmich
has been knocking it out of the park! Must read stuff everyday.

I put no credence in the NYT, so I went over to the Intercept and poked around. I can't think of one recent administration that didn't commit treason, just not as quickly and without the blessings of the deep state as the Trump group of globalists. If "we the people" are the government, why does the oligarchy control it instead of us? I have no doubt Russia and the Trump administration have and plan to have many lucrative business deals with Russia. There appears to be evidence that at least Flynn discussed sanctions and other things with Russia. Many of Trump's global oligarchs have documented business ties to Russia as do the Clintons. My guess is all of this was discovered when they were looking for the source of the WikiLeaks. I still see no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC computers and gave the emails to Assange. From Caitlin's recent post, Bashing Trump Doesn’t Make You A Rebel, It Makes You An Establishment Tool "So you think you’re a badass, crowing about Michael Flynn’s resignation and making fun of Trump? You think you’re a rebel, spelling his name tRump like a naughty eight year old kid from the forties? It’s because “rump” means “butt”, right? Is that the gag? Be careful you don’t cut yourself on all that edge there, Lenny Bruce. I don’t expect this article to share particularly well. Progressives are still too intimidated by their liberal friends and acquaintances to openly defy the infamous echo chamber on the social media outlets I get most of my exposure on, but this is getting intensely stupid and somebody needs to say something. The way people are championing a cause that’s also being championed by every multimillionaire on every channel on every show on every television as though they’re being in some way rebellious and counter-cultural is beyond my understanding. The resignation of a National Security Advisor (a registered Democrat, by the way) who was working against the oligarchic push toward a military confrontation with a nuclear superpower, who was one of the few people telling the truth about America’s arming of terrorists in Syria, and Democrats are singing and dancing like a bunch of Ewoks watching an exploding imperial death star. Let me remind you gangstas that a 2014 Princeton University study showed clearly that the United States of America is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Here’s a five-minute video breaking down what that means and how it works in clear and simple terms. Basically, in the current system, your wishes have essentially no impact on your country’s legislation and policy unless you are very rich; your vote and the votes of the rest of the 99 percent change functionally nothing about the way your nation moves and behaves. So the fact that this guy was democratically elected to be the leader of the nation doesn’t mean that he’s actually in charge; ultimately, the real source of power is the large network of oligarchs and unelected manipulators collectively known as the Deep State. That is what Bernie Sanders kept talking about when he spoke of America becoming an oligarchy, and that is where the real rebellion is." I agree with Caitlin.

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 9:14pm

Add me to that list.

@crbngville @crbngville @crbngville

I've found my political voice with Caitlin.

But also with quite a few voices here that have, in the course of a single year, stepped up to a higher plane with a better view. It's astonishing, really.

—

IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"

Submitted by Linda Wood on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:17pm

I also

@dkmich agree with Caitlin.

I put no credence in the NYT, so I went over to the Intercept and poked around. I can't think of one recent administration that didn't commit treason, just not as quickly and without the blessings of the deep state as the Trump group of globalists. If "we the people" are the government, why does the oligarchy control it instead of us? I have no doubt Russia and the Trump administration have and plan to have many lucrative business deals with Russia. There appears to be evidence that at least Flynn discussed sanctions and other things with Russia. Many of Trump's global oligarchs have documented business ties to Russia as do the Clintons. My guess is all of this was discovered when they were looking for the source of the WikiLeaks. I still see no evidence that Russia hacked the DNC computers and gave the emails to Assange. From Caitlin's recent post, Bashing Trump Doesn’t Make You A Rebel, It Makes You An Establishment Tool "So you think you’re a badass, crowing about Michael Flynn’s resignation and making fun of Trump? You think you’re a rebel, spelling his name tRump like a naughty eight year old kid from the forties? It’s because “rump” means “butt”, right? Is that the gag? Be careful you don’t cut yourself on all that edge there, Lenny Bruce. I don’t expect this article to share particularly well. Progressives are still too intimidated by their liberal friends and acquaintances to openly defy the infamous echo chamber on the social media outlets I get most of my exposure on, but this is getting intensely stupid and somebody needs to say something. The way people are championing a cause that’s also being championed by every multimillionaire on every channel on every show on every television as though they’re being in some way rebellious and counter-cultural is beyond my understanding. The resignation of a National Security Advisor (a registered Democrat, by the way) who was working against the oligarchic push toward a military confrontation with a nuclear superpower, who was one of the few people telling the truth about America’s arming of terrorists in Syria, and Democrats are singing and dancing like a bunch of Ewoks watching an exploding imperial death star. Let me remind you gangstas that a 2014 Princeton University study showed clearly that the United States of America is an oligarchy, not a democracy. Here’s a five-minute video breaking down what that means and how it works in clear and simple terms. Basically, in the current system, your wishes have essentially no impact on your country’s legislation and policy unless you are very rich; your vote and the votes of the rest of the 99 percent change functionally nothing about the way your nation moves and behaves. So the fact that this guy was democratically elected to be the leader of the nation doesn’t mean that he’s actually in charge; ultimately, the real source of power is the large network of oligarchs and unelected manipulators collectively known as the Deep State. That is what Bernie Sanders kept talking about when he spoke of America becoming an oligarchy, and that is where the real rebellion is." I agree with Caitlin.

Submitted by Arrow on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:54am

Everyone does it...But

Trump people are/were inexperienced and incompetent in 'contacts'.

Usually it's 'private citizens' talking with other 'private citizens' or 'unrelated' persons like Swiss businessmen.

The government used to say "we don't negotiate with terrorists" except everyone talks to everyone else all the time.

Trump transition was amateur hour. We will see how it plays out'

I'm more worried of the fascist cabal running the whitehouse.

—

I want a Pony!

Submitted by Azazello on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:05am

We are at war with Eurasia,

we have always been at war with Eurasia.
I know that Americans are predisposed to fear ~~the Soviet Union~~ Russia but I'll need to see a little more proof before I light my hair on fire. I'm predisposed to distrust the intelligence "community".

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by dkmich on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:09am

Deep state - why are we still playing their game.

Marching for women, opposing Trump, stop this one -that one--wtf! What aren't we marching to reform the vote? Paper ballots, publicly funded elections, run-off voting, no party registrations.

I don't trust the anti-Trump rallies to be anything but sanctioned and funded by the opposing oligarchs. When Hillary's PPH, MoveOn, and other veal pen "progressives" support something, I immediately detect a smell.

—

"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:58am

"Another" view? You did not explain yours.

What are the allegedly treasonous deeds?

Submitted by bondibox on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:37am

I would like to know

@HenryAWallace this morning one of my FB friends posted "Our president has been revealed to be a treasonous liar a mere 3 weeks into the gig.." and I'm like, 'did I miss something?'

—

“He may not have gotten the words out but the thoughts were great.”

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:07am

So far, it seems like a lot of smoke and mirrors,

@bondibox

mostly smoke. Except for the liar part, which is true, but I've yet to witness a politician who is not deceptive. Trump is just much sloppier than most of the other high level pols.

As far as the alleged treason, something certainly may have happened. Or not. But establishment media is certainly making it sound as though someone talked to someone about something and therefore we are all in great danger. I have no idea what the danger consists of since Russia is in no position to attack us and does not seem inclined to anyway. Nonetheless, I am TERRIFIED and I'm pretty sure we all should be.

Wouldn't you say that whoever is not also terrified is probably in on it, whatever "it" is?

For the love of all that is good in the world, if you see something, say something!!!11!!

Submitted by asterisk on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:50am

@HenryAWallace I have recently seen

@HenryAWallace I have recently seen a couple of MSM comments on how 'steady' and reasonable Pence is. I rarely watch the MSM. This may just be the first salvo in replacing Trump.

The alleged Russian hookers give the religious fundamentalists an excuse to dump Trump, but the rest of us either don't believe it or don't care. Treason with Russia would be good for targeting the love-my-gun-collection crowd to turn on Trump.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:12am

Synchronicity!

@asterisk

I just posted an essay on impeachment that very briefly at the outset raises the question whether media and others have been trying to manipulate us into demanding impeachment of Trump. At the end, my essay asks us to imagine the potential for abuse in selection of Vice Presidents if we take impeachment lightly.

http://caucus99percent.com/content/impeach-impeach-part-1

Submitted by sojourns on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:30am

That is exactly what the republicans want

@asterisk --They are biding their time. They're going to let Trump do all the dirty work and then get rid of him. Then they can blame him for -- everything that has pissed off the public, install Pence, who is much more grounded by appearances and dumb. They like Pence. He can be manipulated.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by Roy Blakeley on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:28pm

The real story here

@sojourns @crbngville The real story here is that the MISCC was not appeased by Trump's visit to the CIA so they are out to get him or to strip any semblance of a reasonable foreign policy away from the Trump administration. They want Russia to be our enemy. They need a technologically sophisticated enemy to justify the obscene expenditures on the military and cybersecurity, and Russia is the best they have. I bet Trump wishes he was dealing with more honorable people like his old friends in the mafia.

Submitted by sojourns on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 8:59am

Yes. It was a terribly sad day

@Roy Blakeley --when the cold war supposedly ended. CIA agents leaping from rooftops like a Wall Street Crash. I wish. But you are right. Russia is a staple. China is too difficult. Seems there are less and less venues in the Middle East in which to stir shit and start a war. South America is tapped out. I suppose they could try Canada?

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:05pm

@HenryAWallace

@HenryAWallace

... Except for the liar part, which is true, but I've yet to witness a politician who is not deceptive. Trump is just much sloppier than most of the other high level pols. ...

Lol, he's giving Clinton a run for her money, isn't he? And an appropriate phrase, since that's why they were both running for the Presidency and much of the reason why the endless lies are needed. And why the Clinton's are so peeved, because their low-guesstimated retirement fund of a mere hundred million or so isn't nearly big enough to suit them.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by TJ on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 9:55am

Sorry, dude.

In a propaganda war between Trumpists and the deep state I really don't feel like participating.

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:17pm

Great post, but resisting whatever the establishment is

@TJ

trying hard to convince you is what you really want is probably a good idea. Right now, I think demanding impeachment of Trump is supposed to be what you really want to do. Do you? Surreal as I think he is as President, I don't think I want us to be manipulated into demanding impeachment.

Submitted by Linda Wood on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:22pm

Trump,

@HenryAWallace the unpredictable, certainly has everyone on their toes! From where I have stood for so long, that's a good thing!

Submitted by kharma on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:21am

I agree it is treason.

Looks like Russia is now trying to distract to save their little ~~red~~ orange friend.

—

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:58am

Not per the Constitution. We are officially at war with nobody,

@kharma
and openly at war with Syria, while meddling & intervening in internal wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and other places. We have, however, no enemy other than peace, truth, and the right of others to be free of US dominion and control.

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by gulfgal98 on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:26pm

Treason defined

@enhydra lutris as per Article 3, Section 3 of the US Constitution.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.

The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.

Even if it was a stretch, I personally do not see how this is treason.

—

Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Submitted by Linda Wood on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 8:19pm

Gen. Flynn

@gulfgal98 may have given Aid and Comfort, or even just Comfort, to the Russian government, by not being nasty to them or by giving them reassurance that we are not going to destroy them soon. But the question is, is Russia our ENEMY?

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:27pm

@Linda Wood

@Linda Wood

Nope, the various PTB running the US and other governments/organizations/financial institutions and other corporations and/or profiting greatly from them and the rest of us are the enemies of the world. Do I win a box of Crackerjack or perhaps some nifty piece of plastic from inside one for this answer?

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 11:20am

Who is an adversary?

@Linda Wood

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by Ellen North on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 5:38pm

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Thanks for the video, and to whoever made it and those who pressed for transparency and answers to the obvious!

The obvious conclusion is that the PTB regard the world and evidently life itself as their adversaries, and that other countries would have have just as much justification for spying on TPTB and their various agencies and corporate 'political parties' or for threatening group military/nuclear retaliation for these spying intrusions upon their privacy as have been claimed by the lackeys of TPTB in their 'Russia did it!' propaganda over the corporate Dem Party insider leaks. Far more and actual justification in reality, of course, because the US PTB pose a unique and totalitarian threat to all others and to all life on the planet...

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by Cant Stop the M... on Sat, 02/18/2017 - 6:54pm

@Ellen North These were NSA

@Ellen North These were NSA recruiters at UW-Madison, a few years ago. The students, and in particular the young woman who asks most of the questions, absolutely slices them to bits with her intelligence.

—

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Submitted by sojourns on Thu, 02/16/2017 - 9:04am

Cuz it isn't

@gulfgal98 --if anything, it is a violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act. Collusion between Trump and Flynn has to be proves along with a quo from the Russians.

—

"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:15am

"It" is treason? Please specify what "it" consists of.

@kharma

So far, you and the essayist claim something or other = treason with zero explanation or analysis of the allegedly treasonous deeds.

Submitted by Ellen North on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 1:11pm

@HenryAWallace

@HenryAWallace

Aren't the purported details and evidence classified so that the public can't see them, any more than they'll be able to see details and evidence of the processes and results of future election which are also now National Security issues reserved for specific agencies and private interests?

I've seen the future and it's being redacted as we speak.

—

Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

Submitted by kharma on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 10:22am

You want to live in Putin's world?

Not me.

—

There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:17am

Then don't run for President of Russia.

@kharma

Submitted by Azazello on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 11:30am

Me neither, too damn cold.

@kharma

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by CB on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:01pm

Crimea is not too bad

@Azazello

Submitted by HenryAWallace on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:21pm

.

@CB

Submitted by Azazello on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:23pm

Even Crimea,

@CB
which Russians think of as Puerto Vallarta or something, looks a little cold to me.

EnglishRussia

—

We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.

Submitted by CB on Wed, 02/15/2017 - 12:48pm

Crimea has a humid subtropical climate Cfa much like

@Azazello
south eastern US.
http://www.mapsofworld.com/world-maps/world-climate-map.html.
The mountains are always colder. I could also go skiing in southern California right now.