Trump Administration vs. Deep State
“Mike Flynn has fallen farther faster than any powerful official in any Government in the 20th Century, in America. We are watching, in real time, very quickly, a powerful counter intelligence investigation run by the FBI, with the assistance of the CIA and NSA that is targeting the top of this government.”
The intelligence branch of the MIC/Deep State has decided to change the results of our national election, and Democrats are perfectly OK with that (especially at GOS where they believe the CIA is defending "democracy").
My personal opinion is similar to Max Keiser's, in that Trump is the "new Boris Yeltsin, the puppet idiot installed by America’s neo-cons and Wall St. bankers".
OTOH, I also recognize that there is historical precedent for Deep State security forces influencing who runs the executive branch - the Imperial Praetorian Guard. That's not a good thing.
In a liberal democracy, how things happen is often as important as what happens. Procedures matter. So do rules and public accountability. The chaotic, dysfunctional Trump White House is placing the entire system under enormous strain. That's bad. But the answer isn't to counter it with equally irregular acts of sabotage — or with a disinformation campaign waged by nameless civil servants toiling away in the surveillance state.As Eli Lake of Bloomberg News put it in an important article following Flynn's resignation,
Normally intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens are some of the most tightly held government secrets. This is for good reason. Selectively disclosing details of private conversations monitored by the FBI or NSA gives the permanent state the power to destroy reputations from the cloak of anonymity. This is what police states do. [Bloomberg]
Those cheering the deep state torpedoing of Flynn are saying, in effect, that a police state is perfectly fine so long as it helps to bring down Trump.
It is the role of Congress to investigate the president and those who work for him. If Congress resists doing its duty, out of a mixture of self-interest and cowardice, the American people have no choice but to try and hold the government's feet to the fire, demanding action with phone calls, protests, and, ultimately, votes. That is a democratic response to the failure of democracy.
Sitting back and letting shadowy, unaccountable agents of espionage do the job for us simply isn't an acceptable alternative.
Down that path lies the end of democracy in America.
I would also add that it's not just "how things happen", but also "who makes them happen", because it reveals why they are happening.
In this case it's a matter of the dirtiest agency in American history making the call.
“What’s at the core of this is an effort by some in the intelligence community to upend any positive relationship between the U.S. and Russia,” Kucinich said.
And in his opinion, there is a big money motive behind it.
“And I tell you there's a marching band and Chowder Society out there. There's gold in them there hills,” he said. “There are people trying to separate the U.S. and Russia so that this military industrial intel axis can cash in.”
Kucinich added the intelligence community could start a war to succeed.
“There’s a game going on inside the intelligence community where there are those who want to separate the U.S. from Russia in a way that would reignite the Cold War,” he said.
The simpleton worldview of Team Blue vs. Team Red that so many Democrats (and Republicans too) see the world is a hindrance to understanding what is actually going on here.
In the past it was considered scandalous for senior U.S. officials to even request the identities of U.S. officials incidentally monitored by the government (normally they are redacted from intelligence reports). John Bolton's nomination to be U.S. ambassador to the United Nations was derailed in 2006 after the NSA confirmed he had made 10 such requests when he was Undersecretary of State for Arms Control in George W. Bush's first term. The fact that the intercepts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak appear to have been widely distributed inside the government is a red flag.
Representative Devin Nunes, the Republican chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, told me Monday that he saw the leaks about Flynn's conversations with Kislyak as part of a pattern. "There does appear to be a well orchestrated effort to attack Flynn and others in the administration," he said. "From the leaking of phone calls between the president and foreign leaders to what appears to be high-level FISA Court information, to the leaking of American citizens being denied security clearances, it looks like a pattern."
...
Nunes told me Monday night that this will not end well. "First it's Flynn, next it will be Kellyanne Conway, then it will be Steve Bannon, then it will be Reince Priebus," he said. Put another way, Flynn is only the appetizer. Trump is the entree.
Comments
Trump needs to recognize the fight that he is in.
The Business Roundtable, the Chamber of Commerce, and the MIFC is against him. They want Pence.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
Of knives and gunfights.
They took a scalp. Trump needs to take two.
The only way to deal with neocon gangsters.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I would like to see Trump try to pull off a counterattack
on the spy kings and pull a few pensions while he's at it. Taking someone's upcoming government pension will focus their attention on what they are doing. It'll get publicly very ugly, very fast, in my opinion.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
How about Comey?
for not clamping down on the leaking of the Flynn transcripts?
Be fun to watch the Dems try to complain about that one.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Comey! Good one. C'mon Nancy what do you have?
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
@Not Henry Kissinger That would be
That would be absolutely fucking hilarious and you are a genius.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@duckpin MIFC=Motherfuckers In
MIFC=Motherfuckers In Fine Clothes?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
military/industrial/financial complex
But yours works too
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
How about MotherFuckers In Fascist Camouflage?
@Alligator Ed That's great. Give
That's great. Give that man the prize!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Y'know some is gone say it...
Seems someone slipped Shit Gibbon a Mickey Flynn.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
In related news
Abuse?
He might want to consult with his wife.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Or his employees
Ouch!
(That's what she said.)
Look like that tweet was spot-on
Breaking: In Victory For Workers, Fast Food CEO Andrew Puzder Withdraws as Labor Nominee
Kellyanne Conway has known
Kellyanne Conway has known Mike Pence for some time. I am not sure just where she will decide to stand.
She has made her ethical standards quite clear and she may not be a permanent supporter of Trump. As everyone here has been saying, a lot of masks are coming off.
The Neocon Deep State responsible for Iraq, Ukraine, Syria
is now trying to Color Revolution the Trump administration. Based on the track records, I assume they are underestimating Trump, and that their operations will backfire more often than not.
BTW, here's the Kucinich interview quoted above, I recommend it highly:
What I want to know is after the pentagon
sabotaged the peace agreement in Syria, why didn't Obama do something about it?
Or was there anything that he could do?
162 Syrian troops were killed during the air strikes and ISIS was able to take the ground that the Syrian troops had been holding for a long time. I think that it was 2 years.
I agree that there is so many things happening that people don't know what is actually going on?
That's a great interview with Kusinich.
Whoever is responsible for undermining Trump needs to held accountable and exposed. It seems to be an intelligence coup.
And gulfgal, great comment. He also watched as the democrats all over the country lost seats at the national and local levels and many state's governorships turned Red. After the disastrous 2010 midterm elections he should have fired DWS unless she gave him the results that he wanted. Y losing both houses of congress he could hide behind the republicans obstructing his legislation.
Remember that he didn't try to pass legislation that would have helped the middle class until the republicans were able to block it.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
DWS may have been part of Obama's 2008 deal with
HRC (Her Royal Clinton).
That is a good point
but it bolsters my opinion that Obama had planned to lose all of those seats and states. Don't forget how close this country is to getting enough republicans and republican governors so that they can ratify (?) the constitution. Not sure if this is the correct word, but plenty of people are warning that this might be in the works. And if that's part of the Deep State's plan, then Obama is complicit in that.
I don't know why he would want that to happen unless the plan has been planned for decades and everyone in our government is also complicit.
We know that we don't have a functioning government and haven't for a long time and the TPP was another nail to remove the borders that the corporations want to happen. The ISDS that would have allowed the corporations to sue if any of our laws got in the way of their profits.
Hope someone comes in and tells me how wrong I am. Or has another option on what is happening.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
That is a good point, too. Horrifying, though.
Then again, does it matter? Most of the Constitution is about what powers the federal government has. Only the Bill of Rights--with rights that date all the way back to 1215 C.E.--protects us and we get those rights only so long as the federal government feels like letting us have them. For example, what remains of the Fourth Amendment? All our rights to a trial, to confront witnesses, etc? Cool, as long as no one feels like drone killing us or sending us to Bagram. The Obamacare SCOTUS decision says the federal government can use its taxing power to force us to buy things from private companies. LLATPOHMA. (Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, my ass.)
@HenryAWallace
And here I thought the US Constitution was about guaranteeing the inalienable rights of the people and the limitations and duties of the government which was to be of, by and for the people... And FSM knows that you obviously know way, way, eternally more than I do about it.
But why would the most enlightened of the American Founders fight to put in such language as they did and why term the country a Democratic Republic if those happening to transitorily hold public office were actually accorded any right to arbitrarily and legally effectively declare him/herself King/Queen of an oligarchy or a dictator over a fascist State simply by passing Simon Says laws to do as s/he pleases?
Does the Oath of Office say anything swearing to uphold the US Constitution, if they happen to feel like it, and to regard it as 'a piece of paper' if they like? And if the basis of American law rests upon the foundations to which I refer, wouldn't legal, Constitutional law have to be in the public interest and respecting these inalienable rights of the people, rather than in contravention of all such?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/inalienable
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/inalienable
http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Inalienable+rights
If the US Constitution is indeed a legal document defining the basis of law in which America is founded, then how can any public servant claim any non-existent right to take away the INALIENABLE rights of his/her fellow-country-folk?
It's a Democratic Republic if you can hold it.
Not if you let it be taken away by your paid administrators and those who are sworn to guard your rights and democracy because they feel like it and say so.
Edit to add my trademark missing letter... sigh...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@snoopydawg
Assuming that what you mean by 'the plan' ultimately bears a close resemblance to the hostile corporate/military global takeover I see in progress:
What else would cover all known facts and circumstance?
And why else would the whole government have fallen if transparency had been enforced regarding the email kerfluffle (and the 'fluff' part was not a typo) and the American public had actually been given the public information they were entitled to?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@snoopydawg I think Obama doesn
I think Obama doesn't care much about the Democratic party one way or another.
He does have a few scruples, but they mainly revolve around not doing something that will blow up the world. I see a few attempts, here and there, on his part, and on Kerry's part once he got there, to try and push back against the PNAC crazies. In vain, for the most part. The President and SoS don't have nearly enough power to push back against the CIA.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Dear Mr. Dawg, Expres. Abomination wouldn't act against the MIC
because he was/is a spineless, hypocritical lying weasel. Red line in the sand! Bullshit. Yellow line in his pants while running to the urinal. But then I am being overly generous (should be *brown*).
One question:
So?
The Vice President has no formal policy making function whatsoever. Constitutionally, it's like lying to a potted plant.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Great point.
The Roosevelt administration isolated Truman. And that was during World War II, with an ill man as POTUS. Supposedly, Truman did not even know about the Manhattan Project until after FDR died.
Until the 12th Amendment...
the Vice President wasn't even from the same party.
The President and his appointees are under no legal duty to tell the truth to the VP about anything. Whatever 'power' the VP has is subject solely to that which the President decides to delegate to him.
It appears Trump may be delegating a bit too much.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
@HenryAWallace Well, I wouldn't have
Well, I wouldn't have shared that knowledge with him. Apart from making witty statements, there's not much to recommend Truman.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Not Henry Kissinger I totally agree. Who
I totally agree. Who the fuck cares if he lied to Pence? All that tells me is what side of this clusterfuck Pence is on, and it's not Trump's.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Another take
antiwar.com
This paragraph sums it all up
IMHO, the answer is yes and we the people are powerless to do anything about it. They have any and all information they may want on any one of us. They now have full control of our elections. And Obama led the charge to shred habeus corpus. OUr 1st, 4th, and 5th Amendments guaranteed under the Bill of Rights no longer exist.
I will continue to blame Obama who empowered the deep state even more than any previous President. We now livein a full blown police state and it is only going to get worse.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
He also signed the clause in one of the NDAAs
which will allow the military to lock up anyone accused of helping terrorists and hold them indefinitely without charges or have access to a lawyer.
And that is why people should be upset with the NSA violating their 4th amendment right instead of saying "go ahead I have nothing to hide"
Anyone can have planted evidence that shows whatever they want to show about anyone.
People are so blazay when their rights are violated.
As gulfgal wrote, our 1,4,5 rights are basically gone and I would add our 3rd amendment is also on life support.
That is the Castle doctrine and it's violated when SWAT teams barge in people's houses and if anyone tries to protect themselves, they are blown away. And it doesn't matter if they get the address wrong which has happened many times.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Will we allow?
We have allowed it since 9/22 1963.
Solidarity forever
@gjohnsit I wish I had bet real
I wish I had bet real money on this. I knew the Bush Republicans would join with the Dems to try to impeach Trump. And who better to help them than the alphabet soup agencies? I hoped I was wrong, but turns out once again I'm right.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
IMO, Trump was their guarantee of President Hillary.
I think the PTB "misunderestimated" that Americans across the nation were so desperate for change that they'd rather risk the lunatic than vote for Hillary.
Excellent point. Lying is not crime, lying under oath is.
But as Clapper showed us, even lying under oath is just fine, if the establishment wants it to be fine.
@HenryAWallace I hate to seem to be on
I hate to seem to be on Bubba's side, but it's OK when Clapper does it but not OK when Bill Clinton does it?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
I think that was the point he was making?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@Ellen North Yes! I wasn't
Yes! I wasn't facepalming AT Henry Wallace, but WITH him at the situation.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@HenryAWallace Perhaps the real point
Perhaps the real point is that we long ago left behind the universe of consistent moral and philosophical positions. Whatever furthers the interests of the most powerful person in the room is what's gonna happen, and who gives a shit if it's inconsistent, appears to be the attitude of the powerful. And the media and a sizable portion of the population appear to accept that. Because rah rah partisan bullshit.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's most definitely the Deep State not wanting good relations
with Russia. That would be bad for profits. Hoisted on His Own Petard: Flynn Was Brought Down by the Very Spying Machine He Helped to Build
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Good link
pedant here.
let the first time pass, but oww.
a petard is a bomb.
one is hoist by his own petard.
interesting military origin which I won't spoil for curious ones.
I see your pedant...
and raise you a know-it-all.
The proper preposition is 'with'.
The phrase comes from Act III, Scene IV of Hamlet:
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
I prefer "by" which has the clearer meaning,
but "with" is faithful to Shakespere. You are correct.
But I bet he was not the first to use that figure. (it is found first in Hamlet, which is different)
And it may be that he chose "with" here for reasons related to his poetry.
The sound of "by" does not fit so well as the soft "th" of "with", imo. So I defer to W.S. on those grounds.
As for you, when your time comes I hope
"The prayers of the Saints ascending with you, will Petarr your entrances through heavens Portcullis"
Maybe we could delay reining in the Deep State
until they've gotten rid of Bannon?
But seriously, there is a power play going on that I don't think I understand. It's frightening. To me, it looks like a whole bunch of very powerful people trying to carry out a coup.
On the other hand, it may be that I understand it quite well and that's even more frightening.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
Indeed, this is very, very frightening
As much as I dislike Trump, I dislike the fact that the deep state is in the midst of staging a coup and it would not surprise me one bit if the Clintons are deeply involved in it too. What last shred of a facade of democracy in this country is not being ripped away.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
^this^
"and it would not surprise me one bit if the Clintons are deeply involved in it too. What last shred of a facade of democracy in this country is not being ripped away."
Well said.
Most definitely Killary et al involved. The Deep State was so
sure that HRC had this in the bag. It's a coup in progress all right. T-rump so far out of his depth. It's difficult to see what will happen next. I think Priebus will be the next one to go. The bottom line is none of us peasantry can do anything about it.
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
they aren't stopping.
I thought they would accept the election results.
Might have been wrong.
"Where have you gone, Joe Dimaggio?"
What would a coup look like?
Uh. Oh.
WW3, here we come.
Flynn was the guy who was trying to get the CIA/NSA etc under control. So they tapped his phone for something to use against him and "leaked" it. We don't know how accurate the reports are, probably not very, considering they come from anonymous sources through the NYT. The neocons and their world empire, to hell with the peons, view may have won with this. I hope not, but:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-14/its-over-folks-neocons-deep-sta...
@Sunspots Oh, so that's why they
Oh, so that's why they discredited him. He wanted to reduce their size and power.
He's lucky. Last guy who tried that got shot.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Sunspots So awesome watching so
So awesome watching so much of the Left rally behind the CIA in this moment of national crisis. Warms the heart.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Those hippies at the CIA
just a bunch of commie do-gooders.
@gjohnsit Which makes it so
Which makes it so funny that they're keeping us on track toward nuking Russia till we see it in the dark. Good times!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Warms or Berns?
Warms or Berns?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
This is the worst possible dilemma
Trump is clearly being outplayed. He may be good at one-to-one dealmaking but so far he does not seem up to the requirements of poker. I am not a Trump fan, but he does appear to be inimicable to Deep State. It is clear that he needs to grow a spine and not just a big mouth. Just as Obama was so weak in response to the Pentagon's subversion of a Syrian truce, Trump has been so on the fate of Flynn. Many of Trump's ideas are decidedly harmful, but aside from downing the TPPO, his wish to revert to cordial relationships with Russia is something which we should all approve.
He still has the time and the power to shut this intel threat down--but will he even realize that it is going on?
Perhaps he does, but his response has not yet been realized. He had a super-secret high level security meeting and within hours it was leaked to the press. Who was the leaker? What retaliation was taken against the leaker? If Trump doesn't start cleaning house, his presidency is doomed.
Yes, I was in despair yesterday over those points you've made
until I saw an article (can't find it again!) asking if Flynn may have been sacrificed to draw out the leakers. Sure hope so, & hope that Trump is irritated enough to really clean them out (gotta hope, right? Nuclear war would/will be the end of everything). Plus, I saw his whole press conference yesterday, & he ate the press's lunch - and they seemed to actually realize it. Though they still slanted the summaries afterwards.
http://thesaker.is/trump-does-something-right-very-good-press-conference...
@Sunspots
(Copied Feb 17/ 7:45 PM my time, very shortly before posting here, so today - hate the undated articles, lol.)
According to a link in a comment under the article you provided:
http://russia-insider.com/en/great-draining-begins-trump-purges-state-de...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I have zero sympathy for either side they both represent
the worst of us.
Trump's comments on a single state solution and positivity towards moving the US embassy to Jerusalem show such a level of stupidity as it is hard to credit. If it was possible to ignite the ME further, he is trying hard to do so.
I don't mind his comments about NATO hopefully it is not too late for Europe to distance itself from America's wars.
I do not want a coup.
And there is no 'distancing' for Europe. Once WWIII is underway, regardless of any affect on the US mainland, Europe will be torn to shreds.
dfarrah
I wouldn't make it so simple.
The Deep State is not a single monolithic entity all working on the same page, it's basically a function of the ruling elite with it's factions and ideologies. So maybe some of the "Deep State" is going after Trump, but that doesn't mean in it's entirety, thus the talk about a ruling class power play taking place.
The problem with the Trump against the Deep State narrative is that it makes Trump and his team out to be the lesser evil when he and they aren't. By the time these fuckers are done we might be wishing for the old "Deep State".
The "Deep State" is as divided as the country itself.
It all comes down to money and hence power. The mere thought of picking a side in this makes me feel like vomiting. In the meantime just watch the profits soar with even more deregulation and science silencing.
Yes. We should not forget that these agencies are fighting
one another for appropriations; scope of operating range; influence; and, with 17 intelligence agencies, survival as a separate entity.
"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"
I agree
What we need to be doing is finding a way to knock both of these groups out at the same time, or in such close succession that the second one knocked out doesn't have time to react. I'm still trying to work out how this could plausibly be done.
In the meantime, I wish you luck in your own struggle in France. I hope that Hamon manages to win the election, and if elected I hope he manages to move the country in a better direction. I have only a passing familiarity with France and French politics, but it seems to me that France has been ill-served by Sarkozy and Hollande. It seems to be for the best that Hollande decided/was persuaded not to run for reelection.
Why do you want
'both' groups knocked out? Do you realize that you are supporting a coup?
dfarrah
perhaps I have not made myself clear
I want both groups knocked out because I am pretty sure that Trump is going to be terrible, based on his performance so far. He correctly pointed at many of the problems that the country is facing, but his notions of how to solve them is the political/economic equivalent of bleeding. The past few weeks have indicated to me that what little was good in Trump's platform were either a sham, or something that Trump was talked out of doing. As a practical matter, the reason is irrelevant. For instance, Michael Flynn was not the best of men, but he at least didn't want a conflict with Russia and was willing to call a spade a spade when he found out that the US was arming Salafist terrorists in Syria, back when he was head of the DIA. Now, however, he has been pushed out, and may very well end up being replaced by David Petraeus, who thought that it would be a good idea to use Al Qaeda to defeat ISIS.
I do not support a coup. I do not in any way support the efforts of the Deep State to overthrow Trump, and I find the affection now being showered upon the State Department, the CIA, the FBI, and the NSA by people at Daily Kos to be reprehensible and opportunistic. The Deep State is not our friend, but neither is Trump. If I had my way, what would happen is that Trump would defeat the Deep State, and then we would defeat Trump. However, I don't see that it makes much difference if it happens the other way around, so long as both groups end up being defeated -- Trump and the Deep State. I also don't see that I have much of any effect on whether or not the Deep State putsches Trump. If that happens, I will not mourn, but neither will I celebrate, because it would have been best for socialist left in this country to have defeated Trump and the Deep State at once.
I hope that has cleared things up somewhat. If you still think I hold an incorrect opinion on this matter, I would welcome further criticism.
@kakumeiji maru I agree with you
I agree with you as far as it goes, but of course the problem is that if you don't defeat the Deep State, you won't have any power with which to defeat Donald Trump or anybody else.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
And that's more of a de-coup than a coup, since the Deep State can make no pretense of being legitimate government in reality-land, where we nearly all dwell together in relative sanity.
Sort of a convertible Coup de Villeins, to make a change of more common terms, such as 'unwashed masses' (wherever poisoned water is provided via city services/polluting industry) or 'the peasantry' (to become roast peasant in MAD nuclear attacks on other people's countries).
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
@dfarrah
Hey, the US PTB and their lackeys are big on regime change, and that's just fine, right? What's wrong with wanting democracy brought to America?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Don't pick a side
"Let's you and him fight" is a great strategy. Maybe both sides will destroy each other.
@Big Al
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Russia invades Limpopo! Maxine Walters responds!
@CB It's really
It's really uncomfortable to feel like I'd fit in better in Russia than in my home country. Perhaps all those dickweeds in high school who told me that were right?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@CB
I have always felt that anyone going along with the destructive corporate/military agenda had to be both crazy and stupid. Please remember this moment, as it's not often I'm so very, very right about something.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
OMFG! Waters has Water on the Brain
Move over, Nancy P. Maxine will be taking the Mini-mental status exam shortly. McCain won't go willingly, but he's on the waiting list also.
In the meantime we should send Swiftboats and Seal teams to guard the Limpopo from its headwaters to downstream so that Putin doesn't flood central Africa. And don't forget about Gabon!
They think this is a good thing at TOP
DKos link
Imagine the reaction at TOP is Hillary had gotten that threatening email.
But the kicker is this sentence by the diarist.
And that's it! As if it's Ok then.
Daily Kos needs a new image
for the top of its page:
"The Blind Leading the Blind" by Pieter Bruegel the Elder
native
A pact with the devil.
Well, since the bashing of Bernie on the site during the primaries, it was inevitable democrats would embrace anything the devil has to offer them just for short term political gain. Unfortunately, what they are embracing is war with Russia in the same rabid republicans embraced the invasion of Iraq.
I can see it happen at TOP--they are talking themselves into war with Russia.
Do they know what they're talking about?
If it's possible they haven't paid any attention to the war in the Middle East, and if it's possible they know nothing about World War II, maybe they know nothing about war at all.
It's hard to understand how they could be advocating war in any case, but a nuclear war with Russia? Do they know what they're referring to? Or do they think just threatening Russia will get them what they want.
The irony of TOP
Is that it was started as an anti-Bush site that was anti-war. I don't think they understand what they are doing. Even in the EU which has become rabidly anti-Russian and militaristic, they seemed to have forgotten World War II.
The hysteria on both sides of the Atlantic just increases day-by-day.
That's the thing
What major countries today have had wars between one another? And also, what major countries have had wars placed within their borders?
USA vs. China? Battles in Hong Kong and LA?
Germany vs. Russia? Battles in Berlin and Moscow?
Sure, we have all these proxy wars and battles in those countries people have no idea exist, can't locate on a map (though going to be honest my own geography is limited ha), or simply view them as some third-world shithole you can bomb away in just because.
America went to war with Iraq partly from the (false) reasoning of 9/11 (which killed 3,000). Well what...500,000? civilians are dead in Iraq due to that war, so over 150 9/11's.
@Linda Wood Here's what's really
Here's what's really really creepy: some among the PTB seem to be circulating the notion that it could be kinda OK to have a nuclear war. That's what would have absolutely turned me against Hillary even if I were her most passionate supporter. Anyone who believes this shouldn't be anywhere near our military (start at 4:30):
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
OT. A diary at Dkos wondering about your situation and where
you have been.
Frankly I sort of hope the deep state takes Trump down. Then they can move on to the real target. Putin. Turn Russia into an oil rich failed state. A color revolution in Iran and KSA and finally China and NATO can decide up the world and Song of the lark can get some peace in a time of China/American shared hegemony. After all we have always been at war with East Asia.
@Song of the lark Unfortunately, taking
Unfortunately, taking down Putin might involve a lot of nuclear weapons.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
OT. A diary at Dkos wondering about your situation and where
you have been. Double post sorry.
I got bojo'd
I'm sort of curious what the comments were
@gjohnsit
I went over there and looked at it. It's tragic really and for me it's personal. There's at least one person in that thread who I have met in person and thought I was on good terms with. Now, not so much. Thing is, my political views have not changed one bit from the day I started posting there 'til now. I stand by everything I ever wrote over there and what I write here is completely consistent with the comments and diaries I posted there for all those years. I'm sure it's the same with you. We didn't change, they did. I am now regarded with suspicion and hostility by people I thought I knew. Oh well ...
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
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