Hofer, Renzi both lose.
Submitted by tapu dali on Sun, 12/04/2016 - 5:48pm
Austria and Italy election results
Austrian centre-left candidate wins, 53-47
Italy: NO wins referendum; Renzi to resign.
Comments
Correct me if I am wrong,
but this appears to be good news, that Corbyn in Great Britain was not a fluke, that Trump in the US is.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Two sides...
of the same coin.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Trump Not a Fluke
Anti-establishmentism all around. Neoliberal and neoconservative economics being voted against.
For all of Trump's problems, he campaigned on a lot of economic policies to help labor. Abolishing the trade deals. Setting new tarrifs. He just made a company keep 1,000 jobs that they were going to offshore. (Now, I doubt he'll following through on much of it in the long run, but . . .)
So, no. Trump is not a fluke. He was tapping into the resentment of the 99%, as was Bernie Sanders--who was doing it in a much more effective way, but the DNC cheated and screwed him out of the Democratic nomination.
If you want to get technical,
If you want to get technical, Trump was, indeed '...tapping into the resentment of the 99%...' while Bernie was rousing the population to form a movement demanding what could and should be done for the public interest, rather than (edit: the government intended to be of, by and for the people) continuing in bleeding the public and country dry to further increase the wealth and power of already obscenely super-rich corporate interests and billionaires having already drained most of it from them, through one means or another.
There's a distinct difference; Bernie meant what he said, had the record to prove it, and was, as always, ready to do anything he could, any way he could, to improve life especially for America's most vulnerable, now pretty much 99% of them. Bernie was effective at encouraging activism, because he was an activist who'd fought all of his life for democracy and the people.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
certainly so for Austria.
Italy? Not so sure as M5S (Movimento cinque Stelle) is politically "all over the map". The Italian right wing were urging a "No" vote.
The constitutional and election amendments were designed to enhance the powers of the party that won a plurality and to allow it to ride roughshod over the Minority; hence the fear that it could facilitate the rise of a "new Mussolini".
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Italy's 'no' vote
is more like a continuation of Brexit, i.e. anti-establishment (although technically it is nothing like it).
Quite a bit more complicated, I'd say.
Yeah, both left and right for the most part opposed the referendum, though for differing reasons. For anyone who doesn't know already, the referendum was an attempt by Renzi to take power from the Senate and place it in the presidency's hands, allegedly to reduce gridlock, though few bought that argument. Some factions opposed the referendum to force Renzi out so they could gain more power, as he had said he'd resign if the referendum were defeated, but on the far left the reasoning (as I have read it) seems more attuned to preventing anyone -- not just Renzi -- from consolidating power in the presidency, 'cuz there's no telling who'll get that presidency someday. M5S, the most motley bunch one could imagine cohering in a single party, opposed the referendum for as many reasons as there are members.
That is a very fair and accurate analysis (in my view).
a good site for Italian news (designed largely for English-speaking ex-pats) can be found here, with a discussion of the various (diverse) forces behind the referendum on either side, as well as the peculiar role played by M5S.
Thanks.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Indeed so.
The good news is that the rumpled leftist economics professor, Alex Van der Bellen,
defeated the far right "Freedom Party"'s Norbert Hofer for the Presidency of Austria.
Van der Bellen has a very interesting background (see link above) having had Estonian-Russian-Baltic German parents.
When independent Estonia abolished to Russian nobility, the family had to change its surname from von der Bellen to the present "van der ..."
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
How terrific that this seems to be an expertise of yours.
May I ask: I've been following along and have read some analysis that says Trump's victory led to both losses on the right. As if it were done by an invisible hand on an invisible global balancing scale. Does that persuade you? As you said above, all three victors are anti-establishment. That seems more credible to me.
Also, hasn't Austria been hoarking their ballot boxes repeatedly resulting in preposterous exit polls? And been forced by international observers into holding the same elections again? On which side were the alleged perpetrators of the vote fixing?
Domino Effects?
Help. there is so much good writing and commenting going on at this site, I can't catch up reading.
I really appreciate gjohnsit's essays. But I can't read that fast and that much.
So, what is that all about? New Zealand?
AP Explains: What Resignation of New Zealand's Leader Means
https://www.euronews.com/live
Thanks for the citation, Mimi
One good thing leads to another.
Resignation of Mr. Key sounds like a good deal for liberals anywhere in the world, especially the many who dislike TPP etc. For my part, it would bet the political kiss of death for Obomba to call me a "good guy", lying SOB that he is.
Here's our "doesn't this sound like Hillary" moment from South Korea. Not only do they have exploding cell phones but they have pay for play problems of their own:
where not to Park your money
Thanks for the citation, Mimi
One good thing leads to another.
Resignation of Mr. Key sounds like a good deal for liberals anywhere in the world, especially the many who dislike TPP etc. For my part, it would bet the political kiss of death for Obomba to call me a "good guy", lying SOB that he is.
Here's our "doesn't this sound like Hillary" moment from South Korea. Not only do they have exploding cell phones but they have pay for play problems of their own:
where not to Park your money